Best Medical Schools for EM Match

[ks9340]

I am entering medical school next year and think that emergency medicine is something I might like to pursue. I was recently accepted to a school that i think is my first choice school that is highly ranked academically but does not have a strong emergency medicine program. Am I better attending a school with a stronger academic reputation or one with a top EM residency program but slightly lower reputation academically? Or does any of this really make a difference when it comes time to match? Any advice would be greatly appreciated - Thanks

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[endo]

Don't know if I can answer your question as I'm:

1. Not from a top ranked school
2. Not at a school with an EM residency

However, our school routinely has 10-20% of the students going into EM -- they match every year. Maybe they would be able to get more interviews coming from a "ranked" school or from a program with an EM residency. I dunno. But if you want to do EM, it shouldn't matter where you go as long as you do the things all applicants do to make themselves attractive to residencies. (LORs, away rotations, grades/boards, etc.).

-endo

 

[Apollyon]

SUNY-Downstate is an EM machine, putting more students (not percentage, but raw numbers) into EM every year than anywhere else. Don't know why.

 

[ks9340]

thanks to both for replying - Suny downstate is actually one of my options - i noticed they send a lot of students to EM - they also seem to prefer their own students for their EM residency program.

 

[Apollyon]

Downstate is 4 years, a TOTAL 'knife-and-gun club', and you need to have Step II to apply. You have to really want it, to go there.

 

[DrQuinn]

I would NOT choose your school based on what you may perceive as an "edge" in the EM match...

Base your school decision on:

Tuition
Location

You may not even want to do EM by your third or fourth year. You may decide to pursue adolescent pancreatology with an emphasis on annular pancreas and fibromyalgia.

Q

 

[The White Coat Investor]

I absolutely 100% agree with QuinnNSU about this. I am at a school that is not a "top" school, maybe top third, (barely), nor does it have an EM program. Yet I managed to get almost every interview I applied for, at "top" programs. It is not where you are so much as what you do there, with the possible exception of schools from outside the US. Go where you'll be happiest, and that's where you'll do best, and that will help you get the residency you want.

 

[sweetfynesse]

Originally posted by ks9340
thanks to both for replying - Suny downstate is actually one of my options - i noticed they send a lot of students to EM - they also seem to prefer their own students for their EM residency program.

Probably because no one else is crazy enough to go there for residency. It takes alot to like the program, and only students that spend a significant quality time in the environment can actually appreciate (ie, overlook) it's flaws!..no offense.

 

[sweetfynesse]

Originally posted by Desperado
...Go where you'll be happiest, and that's where you'll do best, and that will help you get the residency you want.

Plus, assuming that you are even still interested in EM, you can always do away rotations (rotations at different med school) at more recognized programs to receive recommendation letters from well-known faculty in the field...really, just go where you'll be happy and it will work itself out...enjoy med school

 

[eemer]

I am about to disclose my identity, but hey, whatever.

As a student who is graduating from SUNY Downstate in May and planning on continuing her residency training at Kings County, I think I am qualified to speak to the mindset of someone who has chosen to stay in the "knife and gun" club. True, Downstate does place a disproportionate amount of students in EM and the reason is simple. The ED at County is the most open, educational and welcoming department at the school. The chairman is awesome, the PD is interested in the students and the rest of the faculty are interested and excited about Emergency medicine and the future of the field. They also provide interested students with opportunities in the field from the first year foreward. True, the residents there work hard, but no harder than any other county program (read: Cook, Emory, Charity etc), and their reward is that the come out competant,well trained physicians who feel they can handle anything.

During the interview process my fellow classmates and I were encouraged to look elsewhere to find training that best suited our needs. Many of the students are planning on training outside of NY, but most of the students who want to stay in NY are trying to stay at County. This is because after looking at the other programs in NY (and we have more than any other state), most of the people who spend a significant amount of time at County realize you can't get that kind of training anywhere else in the city. (as an aside, most of students graduating are also trying to stay in academic EM, at least for now.)

I don't mean to tout County as the best program for EM in NY, or Downstate as the best medical school, I am just sharing my own experience. Yes, I believe it was easier to attend a medical school with a great residency program and opportunities from the get- go, but you should ultimately go to the medical school that is going to fulfill your needs (social, financial, academic) and worry about all of this other stuff later.

Sorry I rambled.

 

[flEM]

Some people like training at county hospitals. It is undeniable that county hospitals are exciting places to train, that your adrenaline pumps a little harder when you have back to back to back traumas, have huge lines of indigent patients waiting to see you, and fewer support to help manage the sick and injured. It is a personality thing; From my experience it is more common in those with a more surgical bend. Regarding the SUNY program in Brooklyn, it is extremely similar to LA County, but with a different population. It may have a little less trauma, but certainly enough. I remember talking with one extremely happy PGY2 at LAC-USC who told me "I wasn't sure if I should go into EM or surgery - I definitely made the right choice. "

Now, back to the issue at hand: choosing a medical school to match in EM. EM was born in the trenches and most EM program directors have no issues in looking below the ivory towers to find the best residents. That is less so the case with other residencies. If you think you may eventually want a real competitive residency, such as derm, ortho, urology, optho, radiology, ENT, then I suggest you go to the best name. If you are primary care type person, who will likely head for medicine, pediatrics, EM, then try to save the money and head to a state school and save yourself over 100 grand in loans. But you never know - I went to med school thinking about neurosurgery or interventional neuroradiology and came out an emergency physician.

Post script: Most, but not all, people with EMS experience before med school end up going into EM. If you were involved in EMS, and this played a large role in your decision to become a physician, then it is likely, but not certain, you will end up as an emergency physician.

 

[eemer]

flEM:
thanks for contributing to my answer. you seem to have insight into the county mentality. any reason?

it would be great to talk to you face to face, is there anyway we could rendevous?

maybe amidst a lecture series on the basic sciences?

 

[ks9340]

Thanks again all - my reason for my initial post is due to angst I am feeling about whether or not to attend an upcoming interview at USC. I am aware that I will probably change my specialty choice numerous times throughout med school, however I always thought somewhere like LA County would be a great place to train esp for emergency medicine. The problem is that in the end I think I will probably attend the school i was just accepted to that is located in an urban environment but is not known as a top place for EM so i'm not sure that I should take up the interview slot. Anyway - i'm sure i'll figure it out as the interview is soon approaching.

 

[sweetfynesse]

Originally posted by eemer
I am about to disclose my identity, but hey, whatever.

As a student who is graduating from SUNY Downstate in May and planning on continuing her residency training at Kings County, I think I am qualified to speak to the mindset of someone who has chosen to stay in the "knife and gun" club....

...because after looking at the other programs in NY (and we have more than any other state), most of the people who spend a significant amount of time at County realize you can't get that kind of training anywhere else in the city . (as an aside, most of students graduating are also trying to stay in academic EM, at least for now.)...

I rest my point, as stated above in the previous post.

For clarification, I did an away rotation at King's County and absolutely enjoyed the experience. I even honored the rotation, but I would never want to attend King's Cty although I agree that the residents will definitely come out of there knowing how to do everything. King's Cty is certainly a haven for hands on exerience. You even get to wheel your own patients to the CT scanner. But, do you have to treat trauma after trauma after trauma to know how to treat trauma patients? NO.

For me, it has nothing to do with the "gun and knife club", patient population, or scut. Personally, I don't wanna feel like I have to fight with the nurses every time I want something done for my patients. I also want to have great didactics, occassionally. More importantly, I wanna be around residents who seem happy--at least some of the time. The entire month I was there, I never saw anybody just smile or laugh, unless it was right before they went home. That's all. But, you enjoy your next four years- I'm sure you'll be one of those residents telling the interviewers, "I really like it, but I knew how it was before I came."....

 

[Castro Viejo]

Eemer, it's not the fact that you're a female applying to EM that gave your identity away -- it's the last statement in your post.

As general advice to those seeking medical school: go to a school where you'll ultimately be happy, and not because it'll get you into a particular department or program, for its tuition, or though you won't heed this bit of advice, for its location.

A lot of my fellow seniors at Downstate are going into EM, perhaps more than in most schools in the country (I really have no idea), but that's not necessarily a reflection on our educational offerings. We just follow national trends, and the push toward the "lifestyle" fields is perhaps particularly prominent in my senior class. There's a large group going into EM, Anesthesiology, ENT (5), Ophtho (8), and GU (3 or 4, I believe). You'll find a large number of students going into EM at any med school in the country.

With that aside, I will comment that the EM department is very well-known in the Downstate community. EM offers a first and second-year elective. EM has a required two-week clerkship at Kings County Hospital. And a lot of seniors take the four-week elective in EM. We hear about EM from Day One of medical school, so maybe that's why a lot of kids go into it. Who knows?

Good luck in your endeavors.

 

[jen628]

I go to a top 5 school with an em program that is not at the top, for what it's worth. My classmates and I did fine with em interviews, and hopefully we will do the same in the match.

1) I don't think you should choose a medical school based upon what you think you might do for residency. You will likely change your mind, and medical school should be more than a means to an end. More important is the school's percentage of seniors who match at one of their top three ranks, regardless of specialty.
Thus, if your only decision factors are top school vs. top EM program, the choice seems very clear. You are not applying to their EM program.

2)That said, there are many other, more important factors that should be going into your decision i.e., where you'd like to live, retention rate, programs offered covering your interests (international health summer research scholarships, for example), etc.

Good luck.

 

[m and m]

"""jen628 Wrote: More important is the school's percentage of seniors who match at one of their top three ranks, regardless of specialty."""

I thought that kind of information was no longer available due to the potential conflict of interest for the school (it sounds better for a school to have their students match at one of their top three programs, thus the school may recommend their students to aim lower than they otherwise would so that they WILL match at one of their top three choices (boy, that was a long sentence)). Personally, I have seen attendings from high-flying schools as well as absolutely nowhere schools. The quality of the attending had no correlation whatsoever with the school they attended.
That being said, some people are impressed by the school you attend. The question is -> Do you care?
Otherwise choose your school by location, amount of debt you are going to get into, potential mates, darts on a board, ouija board or whatever suits your fancy. The bottom line is that any school will provide you with more material than you can possibly, humanely absorb in a thousand lifetimes AND any school will land you the residency spot you want if your numbers are good.