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Hi,

I'll try my best to keep this thread and question concise...

Considering the personal sacrifices and quantity of time the average US physician puts into his/her career, the money a doctor earns is a joke. However, the world is also unfair. Hard work and dedication will only bring you this far in terms of money (150-750k a year as a physician, no other field guarantees you this relatively speaking). Nobody can deny that those that earn more than 1M+ a year have had luck play the biggest role in their path to get there (A-star actors, the guy who made Minecraft working 5-7 hours/week on it during college and sold it to Microsoft for 2,5 billion USD, 5M+ starting salaries for even the weakest in the elite sport world etc.). Now that we've established that luck plays the biggest factor in reaching those higher numbers, let's start with the question:

What side-hustle should a physician spend time on to maximize the chance of obtaining a net worth of 50m+ USD net worth before the age of 50? Could it flat out be the lottery? Would a lottery ticket giving you the jackpot of 50m+ USD be more likely to obtain than having a specific high-risk investment (business, investing in startups etc.) give that? Could it be to buy and run gas-stations? Sell nutritional supplements?

Safe investing for a physician earning 300k a year would only yield a net worth of 5-6 million USD by the age of 65. And that is a joke in my eyes considering the journey. But that's not what this thread is about. I want to know that side-hustle bears the highest chance to yield the desired net worth of 50m+ USD.
 

TMP-SMX

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Interesting first post. However my first question is why 50 million? If the plan is to have a business that your children could take over that's one thing. Certainly a successful business and having many people work for you is a good way to do this. Owning real estate and having tenants is another option for steady income. Many businesses also fail so it is a risk. Many of us will be above $7 million by the time we retire just with the one job we have even if employed if your saving percentage is high enough. Consider joining the Fatfire group on Facebook for some ideas.
 

Raryn

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Hi,

I'll try my best to keep this thread and question concise...

Considering the personal sacrifices and quantity of time the average US physician puts into his/her career, the money a doctor earns is a joke. However, the world is also unfair. Hard work and dedication will only bring you this far in terms of money (150-750k a year as a physician, no other field guarantees you this relatively speaking). Nobody can deny that those that earn more than 1M+ a year have had luck play the biggest role in their path to get there (A-star actors, the guy who made Minecraft working 5-7 hours/week on it during college and sold it to Microsoft for 2,5 billion USD, 5M+ starting salaries for even the weakest in the elite sport world etc.). Now that we've established that luck plays the biggest factor in reaching those higher numbers, let's start with the question:

What side-hustle should a physician spend time on to maximize the chance of obtaining a net worth of 50m+ USD net worth before the age of 50? Could it flat out be the lottery? Would a lottery ticket giving you the jackpot of 50m+ USD be more likely to obtain than having a specific high-risk investment (business, investing in startups etc.) give that? Could it be to buy and run gas-stations? Sell nutritional supplements?

Safe investing for a physician earning 300k a year would only yield a net worth of 5-6 million USD by the age of 65. And that is a joke in my eyes considering the journey. But that's not what this thread is about. I want to know that side-hustle bears the highest chance to yield the desired net worth of 50m+ USD.
Nothing on this planet short of having rich parents worth significantly more than $50mm will guarantee you $50mm by the age of 50.

Even if you were a neurosurgeon making 90th percentile for private practices wages in the country, you wouldn't be making much more than $1mm a year. That's probably an upper limit for what can be reasonably achieved by any physician in any sort of clinical practice - people who make more than that are almost always running a small (or large...) business and skimming off of the work of many other clinical employees.

Assuming you finished residency at 33 (22 when you start medical school, 26 when you start residency, 33 when you finish, no fellowship) and then lived on residency wages, saving every other penny, you'd need to make 13% returns every single year to have $50mm at the end of the next 17 years. You *might* be able to pull it off if you graduated at the *perfect* time - If you graduated in July 2009 (right after the trough of the great recession), the CAGR over the last 10 years has been ~14.5%.

Good luck getting that the next 10-years though - if you can guarantee 13% returns a year, you'd probably be a billionaire running a hedge fund.

(Also, if you are happy living on residency wages for 17 years while working like a dog as a private practice neurosurgeon, why the hell do you want $50mm?)
 
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Nothing on this planet short of having rich parents worth significantly more than $50mm will guarantee you $50mm by the age of 50.

Even if you were a neurosurgeon making 90th percentile for private practices wages in the country, you wouldn't be making much more than $1mm a year. That's probably an upper limit for what can be reasonably achieved by any physician in any sort of clinical practice - people who make more than that are almost always running a small (or large...) business and skimming off of the work of many other clinical employees.

Assuming you finished residency at 33 (22 when you start medical school, 26 when you start residency, 33 when you finish, no fellowship) and then lived on residency wages, saving every other penny, you'd need to make 13% returns every single year to have $50mm at the end of the next 17 years. You *might* be able to pull it off if you graduated at the *perfect* time - If you graduated in July 2009 (right after the trough of the great recession), the CAGR over the last 10 years has been ~14.5%.

Good luck getting that the next 10-years though - if you can guarantee 13% returns a year, you'd probably be a billionaire running a hedge fund.

(Also, if you are happy living on residency wages for 17 years while working like a dog as a private practice neurosurgeon, why the hell do you want $50mm?)
Precisely my point. The average physician can not hit those numbers. But a 19 year old NHL-player, Justin Bieber or whatever can with ease hit those 300m+ net worths.

And since anything above 7m+ net worth requires luck, I want to know about the methods with the highest % of success (and if that percentage is lower/higher than winning the lottery jackpot). If the odds are roughly the same as winning the jackpot, I might as well regularly buy the lottery. This way, I won't feel remorse over not having tried the methods virtually all 10m+ net-worth users have based their financial success on.
 

SterlingMaloryArcher

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Patents maybe? Physicians should have valuable insights and working knowledge sufficient such to identify places where an item could make things better or easier. Going through a patent lawyer is expensive and the process is timely, though.
The 'item' doesn't even have to be medical.
 

Raryn

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Precisely my point. The average physician can not hit those numbers. But a 19 year old NHL-player, Justin Bieber or whatever can with ease hit those 300m+ net worths.

And since anything above 7m+ net worth requires luck, I want to know about the methods with the highest % of success (and if that percentage is lower/higher than winning the lottery jackpot). If the odds are roughly the same as winning the jackpot, I might as well regularly buy the lottery. This way, I won't feel remorse over not having tried the methods virtually all 10m+ net-worth users have based their financial success on.
There's far more unsuccessful 19-year olds who want to be NHL stars than there are people who make $50mm+ over a career.

Probably the highest % of success would be going to a major elite university and converting that into a career in investment banking. Odds of winning the powerball are 1 in 292 million per ticket, odds of an investment banker ending up with $50 mil in assets is a million times better than that, if not more.

Certainly your highest chance of success doesn't involve doing medicine.
 
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There's far more unsuccessful 19-year olds who want to be NHL stars than there are people who make $50mm+ over a career.

Probably the highest % of success would be going to a major elite university and converting that into a career in investment banking. Odds of winning the powerball are 1 in 292 million per ticket, odds of an investment banker ending up with $50 mil in assets is a million times better than that, if not more.

Certainly your highest chance of success doesn't involve doing medicine.
You don't believe I can leverage the medical knowledge by selling lotions for acne or whatever? Supplements? Ideally, there is something in this field I can seize that non-medical people could not in terms of business...
 

Stroganoff

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And since anything above 7m+ net worth requires luck
Not luck. Discipline. Passive investing buy-and-hold fundamentals. Patience. Hard work. That's it.
 
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Stroganoff

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You don't believe I can leverage the medical knowledge by selling lotions for acne or whatever? Supplements? Ideally, there is something in this field I can seize that non-medical people could not in terms of business...
I mean, this whole thread is a fun/silly thought experiment, but if you go into any career focused on money, you're fast tracking yourself to potential severe depression and potential suicide. Do what you love; the money will follow. Or the more cynical/realistic view: Just treat whatever career like a regular job: has its own ups and downs and its own power struggles, politics, and BS to deal with, but in the end you earn a paycheck and can ideally go home to your "real" life. "Work to live, don't live to work." I finally understand this in my 30s after a decade-long stint of selling my soul being a workaholic then wondering where my life went.

But I'll play along with the thought experiment for funsies.

I think you're thinking too in the box. Assuming you finish your MD/DO and potentially at least PGY-1, I'm thinking:
  1. Celebrity doctor. Take lots of acting/show-biz/charisma lessons. Work on your appearance and oomph. Author some books on something you think will sell.
  2. CEO. Basically 99.9% business executive, 0.01% physician at this point.
  3. Big venture entrepreneur + insane uncertainty + insane hours --> hopefully sell the company and "exit"?

Honestly, if you go into medicine for the wrong reasons, you'll give up, burn out, or be a disservice to your patients and colleagues or downright be dangerous. If you're greedy and really just live for currency, maybe consider investment banking or corporate law. I've seen some pretty ridiculous base salaries + bonuses.
 
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OP
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I mean, this whole thread is a fun/silly thought experiment, but if you go into any career focused on money, you're fast tracking yourself to potential severe depression and potential suicide. Do what you love; the money will follow. Or the more cynical/realistic view: Just treat whatever career like a regular job: has its own ups and downs and its own power struggles, politics, and BS to deal with, but in the end you earn a paycheck and can ideally go home to your "real" life. "Work to live, don't live to work." I finally understand this in my 30s after a decade-long stint of selling my soul being a workaholic then wondering where my life went.

But I'll play along with the thought experiment for funsies.

I think you're thinking too in the box. Assuming you finish your MD/DO and potentially at least PGY-1, I'm thinking:
1. Celebrity doctor. Take lots of acting/show-biz/charisma lessons. Work on your appearance and oomph. Author some books on something you think will sell.
2. CEO. Basically 99.9% business executive, 0.01% physician at this point.
3. Big venture entrepreneur + insane uncertainty + insane hours --> hopefully sell the company and "exit"?

Honestly, if you go into medicine for the wrong reasons, you'll give up, burn out, or be a disservice to your patients and colleagues or downright be dangerous. If you're greedy and really just live for currency, maybe consider investment banking or corporate law. I've seen some pretty ridiculous base salaries + bonuses.
Medicine is relative to investment banking/corporate law safe. Higher floor, but lower ceiling. Since life is short (and unfair) I rather aim for the best safe bet I can have (medicine) while at the same time devoting a chunk of my time into the side-hustles that have an endless ceiling.

Regarding your point numbero 3, is there any venture within the field of medicine a physician could capitalize on that other folks could not? This would certainly involve less competition (and thus hopefully also minimize the time put into the business).
 

LookForZebras

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I think it's important to consider fulfillment and happiness alongside income generation. If you work hard at a business but it fails, you've probably learned a ton about entrepreneurship and how to run a business. There's a good chance the experience was fulfilling. But if you regularly play the lottery and keep losing, you've learned nothing and it hasn't gained you any happiness.

I've written about B2B services businesses that physicians can easily start, as well as some ideas for non-clinical B2C business ideas. They are not $50 million ideas, but they can be great realistic sources of extra income for doctors.
 
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Stroganoff

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(A-star actors, the guy who made Minecraft working 5-7 hours/week on it during college and sold it to Microsoft for 2,5 billion USD, 5M+ starting salaries for even the weakest in the elite sport world etc.)
Can I ask where you're from originally? (You don't have to answer for privacy reasons...totally voluntary). I just ask out of curiosity and because you used the "," as a delineator instead of a "." In other words, I'm guessing Europe or Asia.

Regarding your point numbero 3, is there any venture within the field of medicine a physician could capitalize on that other folks could not? This would certainly involve less competition (and thus hopefully also minimize the time put into the business).
Dude, I don't know if I can help you. I'm not a physician, and I'm only at $49M net worth, not $50M. :1cry:

Medicine is relative to investment banking/corporate law safe. Higher floor, but lower ceiling. Since life is short (and unfair) I rather aim for the best safe bet I can have (medicine) while at the same time devoting a chunk of my time into the side-hustles that have an endless ceiling.
In my short time on Earth so far, I've learned that time can often be much more valuable and precious than money/currency. Your money/income/savings buys you security and peace of mind for basic survival purposes, but time is everything. It's time to spend with your loved ones. Your passions. So is your health: There's an adage that goes something like, "Young people sacrifice all their health to get money, but the old would sacrifice all the money in the world to get health." Good luck.
 
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I think it's important to consider fulfillment and happiness alongside income generation. If you work hard at a business but it fails, you've probably learned a ton about entrepreneurship and how to run a business. There's a good chance the experience was fulfilling. But if you regularly play the lottery and keep losing, you've learned nothing and it hasn't gained you any happiness.

I've written about B2B services businesses that physicians can easily start, as well as some ideas for non-clinical B2C business ideas. They are not $50 million ideas, but they can be great realistic sources of extra income for doctors.
Sure, but that's subjective. If my goal is money, then wasting time because a business failed would be the opposite to fulfilling. If I on the other hand won the lottery, I'd see that as fulfillment. This simply because I've gotten the money without lifting a finger (time is money too after all).

Considering the journey of a physician, I feel like every physician is entitled to easy and a lot of money.

Besides, when people talk about "hard work" in the context of running a business I seriously doubt they are talking residency hours anyway. I mean, does anyone think Kylie jenner with her lazy makeup marketing got her 1 billion USD+ working 70-80 hours/week? Lol
 
OP
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Can I ask where you're from originally? (You don't have to answer for privacy reasons...totally voluntary). I just ask out of curiosity and because you used the "," as a delineator instead of a "."


Dude, I don't know if I can help you. I'm not a physician, and I'm only at $49M net worth, not $50M. :1cry:


In my short time on Earth so far, I've learned that time can often be much more valuable and precious than money/currency. Your money/income/savings buys you security and peace of mind for basic survival purposes, but time is everything. It's time to spend with your loved ones. Your passions. So is your health: There's an adage that goes something like, "Young people sacrifice all their health to get money, but the old would sacrifice all the money in the world to get health." Good luck.
Time is more valuable than money, true. That's why I'm not only focused on money. I mean it's just 50 million dude, it's not like I want 100m+-1B.
 

Stroganoff

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Considering the journey of a physician, I feel like every physician is entitled to easy and a lot of money.
Your username is a misnomer. A lot of the stuff you espouse is not grounded in reality, and stuff like entitlement to lots of easy money is immature and naive. My trolldar is pinging, but to be honest I'm just taking this thread as entertainment.

Time is more valuable than money, true. That's why I'm not only focused on money. I mean it's just 50 million dude, it's not like I want 100m+-1B.
Not focused on money but starts an entire thread completely focusing on $50 Million by age 50 as a physician. ;)

Also, you clearly are focused on money. Let's refer to the transcript:
If my goal is money,
;)

Besides, when people talk about "hard work" in the context of running a business I seriously doubt they are talking residency hours anyway.
So this is either trolling or naivete from youthfulness and inexperience. Starting or running a business is a tremendous effort and can routinely and easily surpass the 80 hour/week average ACGME limitation.
 
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Your username is a misnomer. A lot of the stuff you espouse is not grounded in reality, and stuff like entitlement to lots of easy money is immature and naive. My trolldar is pinging, but to be honest I'm just taking this thread as entertainment.


Not focused on money but starts an entire thread completely focusing on $50 Million by age 50 as a physician. ;)


So this is either trolling or naivete from youthfulness and inexperience. Starting or running a business is a tremendous effort and can routinely and easily surpass the 80 hour/week average ACGME limitation.
Man how is the entitlement in this case naive? What, you think it's ok when physicians eat noodles because of their debts when some random dude like Neymar buys choppers for 150 million USD and gets paid more than the net worth of a retired physician each week by kicking a stupid ball? You can't weigh in the situtation of destitute people when I'm comparing physicians to those guys, it'll skew your opinion and you'll call it naive as a result of it.

Some businesses might take a lot of hard work. But I'm talking about those that are multi-million dollar worth (uber, reddit, snapchat, minecraft guy etc.). Besides, in general these multimillion businesses start off and last for 2-3 years and are all of a sudden worth 50m+ million. The guy running the business could at that point retire. Even if he/she put in 100 hours/week for 2-3 years, that's not hard work at all. The business could easily be sold for a lot of millions and the guy could live off that, and all that just after 2-3 years. The physician on the other hand needs to work the rest of the life dude.
 

Stroganoff

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Man how is the entitlement in this case naive?
I said entitlement and naivete separately. I don't believe entitlement is ever the attitude of a winner.

Some businesses might take a lot of hard work.
It's the rule, not the exception. :)

But I'm talking about those that are multi-million dollar worth (uber, reddit, snapchat, minecraft guy etc.).
And every one of these tech angels/unicorns/behemoths started from an idea that then required blood, sweat, and tears to blossom.

Even if he/she put in 100 hours/week for 2-3 years, that's not hard work at all.
I'm losing interest in continuing to feed your trolling. ;)
:troll:

Before I continue (if I continue), I want to know:

  1. your age
  2. your work history: even minimum wage, entry-level jobs count. I'm looking to see if you have any work experience at all no matter how small.
  3. what country you're from and what country you currently live in
 
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I said entitlement and naivete separately. I don't believe entitlement is ever the attitude of a winner.


It's the rule, not the exception. :)


And every one of these tech angels/unicorns/behemoths started from an idea then required blood, sweat, and tears.


I'm losing interest in continuing to feed your trolling. ;)
:troll:

Before I continue (if I continue), I want to know:

1. your age
2. your work history: even minimum wage, entry-level jobs count. I'm looking to see if you have any work experience at all no matter how small.
3. what country you're from and what country you currently live in
No, hard work is not the rule for the top businesses. Like wtf shouldn't it be obvious that the path to an attending is more ardous than somebody who runs a business for 2-3 years (average calculated time before the business became multi-million dollar worth) and can then sell it for 50m+? I'm not saying they don't work hard, but relatively speaking they work less than a physician. You are comparing all the businesses to physicians. If your comparison was involving all businesses vs all healthcare workers then yeah, I agree. Compare physicians with the top businesses instead and you'll realize the point I'm making.

I'm 25. I have never worked but that doesn't matter, I have observed a lot and know how things work. Kind of like observational studies. Currently med student in Norway, but will do residency shortly after diploma.
 

Stroganoff

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No, hard work is not the rule for the top businesses.
*sigh*

Like wtf shouldn't it be obvious that the path to an attending is more ardous than somebody who runs a business for 2-3 years (average calculated time before the business became multi-million dollar worth) and can then sell it for 50m+?
It can take that long just to break even to gain ROI. Often times longer.

I'm not saying they don't work hard, but relatively speaking they work less than a physician. You are comparing all the businesses to physicians. If your comparison was involving all businesses vs all healthcare workers then yeah, I agree. Compare physicians with the top businesses instead and you'll realize the point I'm making.
You've made several textbook logical fallacies in this thread. Wonder if you're self-aware enough to spot them.

Forgive me; I thought you were 16-20 based on the tone and content.

I have never worked but that doesn't matter,
Oh, but it does matter. First-hand life experience matters greatly.

I have observed a lot and know how things work. Kind of like observational studies.

Currently med student in Norway, but will do residency shortly after diploma.
I'm truly curious: Do physicians make good money in Norway? What about the cost of university? The cost of medical school? Do you take out obscene amounts of crippling student loan debt that can wreck you for potentially decades like in the USA?

If you can talk about how medical training is done in Norway and the costs and salaries, I might get something out of this thread after all. :laugh:
 

InvestingDoc

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You're going to have to become a business owner to amass that kind of wealth. Well, that or start buying a lot of lotto tickets and pray for the best.


I was looking up the owner of wellmed the other day, it seems he is worth well over $50 Million.

"I want to know that side-hustle bears the highest chance to yield the desired net worth of 50m+ USD. "

There is no side hustle that is going to get you to this level of wealth. This will be your main gig that makes you that wealthy even if it starts out as a side hustle. Isn't that what happened to Bioshock the computer developer group? I think that was the one that was started by physicians.
 

Mman

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1) invent something you can patent and make a bunch of money from
2) start a company that you can sell to someone else for a big multiple
3) get a great job in a high paying specialty and then after you have saved up and compounded it for a few years, head to Vegas and place wagers that are a far better bet than the lottery which has a 50% house edge. I mean you probably lose, but at least a better chance of getting lucky.
 
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1) invent something you can patent and make a bunch of money from
2) start a company that you can sell to someone else for a big multiple
3) get a great job in a high paying specialty and then after you have saved up and compounded it for a few years, head to Vegas and place wagers that are a far better bet than the lottery which has a 50% house edge. I mean you probably lose, but at least a better chance of getting lucky.
I'm honestly thinking number 3. Are there any success stories revolving these?
 

calvnandhobbs68

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This definitely seems like a real question.
 
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The perfect scenario. Save $15k a year from age 12 to 22 mowing lawns, interning, waiting tables, and ect. Go to school on a full ride. Now, at 22 you should be sitting on close to $250k in savings. Ten years of school and residency and your net worth is around $600k at age 32. Now, save $300k a year for 20 years. Your now age 52 at around 17 million. Retire and live off of $100k a year. At age 62 your worth 30 million. Live off of 200k a year and your worth $55 million at 70. The key is to just keep money compounding. Most people just quit once they have $3 million because they will generate a 6 figure income for the rest of their life.
 
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The perfect scenario. Save $15k a year from age 12 to 22 mowing lawns, interning, waiting tables, and ect. Go to school on a full ride. Now, at 22 you should be sitting on close to $250k in savings. Ten years of school and residency and your net worth is around $600k at age 32. Now, save $300k a year for 20 years. Your now age 52 at around 17 million. Retire and live off of $100k a year. At age 62 your worth 30 million. Live off of 200k a year and your worth $55 million at 70. The key is to just keep money compounding. Most people just quit once they have $3 million because they will generate a 6 figure income for the rest of their life.
Not sure if that's feasible. How is an internist supposed to save 300k a year for 20 years? Also, 50+ million at 70 doesn't sound good in my eyes.

The goal is to have a net worth of 50 million USD before the age of 50. After my epidemiologic research on this matter, my suspicions I've always had with regards to indivials with ultra net high words have been bolstered. It is indeed a state achievable mostly by luck, not hard work (vs upper middle class salaries). The other day I read about an app called "Nothing". It literally does nothing other than displaying "Nothing" if you start the app. Guy got 3 million USD+ for that crap.

Either way... I really want this thread to be taken seriously. I might come off as trolly in nature but I really am not. Considering how easy it is achieving these ultra high net worths these days with the blooming possibilities that have arisen from the Internet/social media I can't help but feel that for a stagnant or even decreasing compensatory market like medicine, those in these fields interested in money should seek those methods that are most likely to yield the 50 M USD goal before 50...

Life is too short to have it being spent worrying about finance. Hence, the goal is to devote time into side hustles most likely to yield the desired goal described above. Worst case scenario is that I'll remain as an middle upper class internist. Best case scenario is that side hustle yields me my goal which would allow me give me and my whole big family the FI life.

I seek the methods most likely to lead to my goal. If statistics seriously show a higher odds of winning 50+ million in lottery than the chance of reaching that through investing/inventing, then I'd rather spend my time buying lotteries. This is what I'm asking for.
 

MedicineZ0Z

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You don't believe I can leverage the medical knowledge by selling lotions for acne or whatever? Supplements? Ideally, there is something in this field I can seize that non-medical people could not in terms of business...
Well the skincare and supplement industry is mega saturated. You'd be lucky to make any money at all doing it, literally. Let alone real big money.
So no.
And every idea you can name, its's already being done. By many people. What do you bring to the table and what is so innovative about your idea? Just getting rich isn't an idea.
 

The White Coat Investor

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Hi,

I'll try my best to keep this thread and question concise...

Considering the personal sacrifices and quantity of time the average US physician puts into his/her career, the money a doctor earns is a joke. However, the world is also unfair. Hard work and dedication will only bring you this far in terms of money (150-750k a year as a physician, no other field guarantees you this relatively speaking). Nobody can deny that those that earn more than 1M+ a year have had luck play the biggest role in their path to get there (A-star actors, the guy who made Minecraft working 5-7 hours/week on it during college and sold it to Microsoft for 2,5 billion USD, 5M+ starting salaries for even the weakest in the elite sport world etc.). Now that we've established that luck plays the biggest factor in reaching those higher numbers, let's start with the question:

What side-hustle should a physician spend time on to maximize the chance of obtaining a net worth of 50m+ USD net worth before the age of 50? Could it flat out be the lottery? Would a lottery ticket giving you the jackpot of 50m+ USD be more likely to obtain than having a specific high-risk investment (business, investing in startups etc.) give that? Could it be to buy and run gas-stations? Sell nutritional supplements?

Safe investing for a physician earning 300k a year would only yield a net worth of 5-6 million USD by the age of 65. And that is a joke in my eyes considering the journey. But that's not what this thread is about. I want to know that side-hustle bears the highest chance to yield the desired net worth of 50m+ USD.
I don't think medicine is the best route to $50M+. You are right that the vast majority of docs will never get there, at least $50M in today's dollars. A few things to think about:

# 1 Medicine can make a significant contribution to it. If you choose a high paying specialty, own your own practice, work hard and make it very efficient it is not unheard of to make a 7 figure income a year from it. If you save half of that every year for 30 years and earn 8% on it, that's $56M. In addition, medicine can often open other doors (medical device company for example) that would also give you some business ownership. In addition, you can use the income from medicine to start other businesses, such as real estate.

# 2 Don't forget inflation. At 3% inflation, $50M in 30 years is the equivalent of $21M today. Still a big ask for a doc, but much more doable.

# 3 The best way to get to that sort of net worth is business ownership. Not only does the business give you income, but it increases in value at a multiple of that income. For example, imagine you had an online business that paid you $1M a year. It might be valued at $3-5M. If you can build the business to pay you $2M a year, it's now worth $6-10M. So even though you only made an extra $1 Million, you are now $6 Million richer, not counting what the business was already worth or that first million it kicked off. Net worth can really grow rapidly when you take into account the value of the business in that sort of scenario.

So what business is most likely to get you there? I don't think there's any one business that is necessarily better than any other. I'm sure it could be one with gas stations or dry cleaners or real estate or whatever. You should probably ask yourself what business you would be most happy running as that is probably what you would work the hardest at and be best at. As long as there is a good market for it, go for it.
 
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I don't think medicine is the best route to $50M+. You are right that the vast majority of docs will never get there, at least $50M in today's dollars. A few things to think about:

# 1 Medicine can make a significant contribution to it. If you choose a high paying specialty, own your own practice, work hard and make it very efficient it is not unheard of to make a 7 figure income a year from it. If you save half of that every year for 30 years and earn 8% on it, that's $56M. In addition, medicine can often open other doors (medical device company for example) that would also give you some business ownership. In addition, you can use the income from medicine to start other businesses, such as real estate.

# 2 Don't forget inflation. At 3% inflation, $50M in 30 years is the equivalent of $21M today. Still a big ask for a doc, but much more doable.

# 3 The best way to get to that sort of net worth is business ownership. Not only does the business give you income, but it increases in value at a multiple of that income. For example, imagine you had an online business that paid you $1M a year. It might be valued at $3-5M. If you can build the business to pay you $2M a year, it's now worth $6-10M. So even though you only made an extra $1 Million, you are now $6 Million richer, not counting what the business was already worth or that first million it kicked off. Net worth can really grow rapidly when you take into account the value of the business in that sort of scenario.

So what business is most likely to get you there? I don't think there's any one business that is necessarily better than any other. I'm sure it could be one with gas stations or dry cleaners or real estate or whatever. You should probably ask yourself what business you would be most happy running as that is probably what you would work the hardest at and be best at. As long as there is a good market for it, go for it.
Thank you for the answer!

Do you think it is more likely for a doctor to own a business reaching the 50M net worth goal < 50 years old than it is to win that net worth through using the invested-into-business-money into buying lotteries? I'm just trying to put things into perspective because it seems like the vast majority of the businesses that do well don't actually involve a net 50m+
 
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Thank you for the answer!

Do you think it is more likely for a doctor to own a business reaching the 50M net worth goal < 50 years old than it is to win that net worth through using the invested-into-business-money into buying lotteries? I'm just trying to put things into perspective because it seems like the vast majority of the businesses that do well don't actually involve a net 50m+
Berkshire a has produced a twenty percent annual return since it's inception. If you had numbers like that for twenty years you would have a chance.
 

The White Coat Investor

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Thank you for the answer!

Do you think it is more likely for a doctor to own a business reaching the 50M net worth goal < 50 years old than it is to win that net worth through using the invested-into-business-money into buying lotteries? I'm just trying to put things into perspective because it seems like the vast majority of the businesses that do well don't actually involve a net 50m+
Lottery? Are you nuts? No, buying lottery tickets is not a very good path to wealth. Even medicine is more likely to get you to $50M than that.
 

zeloc

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Hi,

I'll try my best to keep this thread and question concise...

Considering the personal sacrifices and quantity of time the average US physician puts into his/her career, the money a doctor earns is a joke. However, the world is also unfair. Hard work and dedication will only bring you this far in terms of money (150-750k a year as a physician, no other field guarantees you this relatively speaking). Nobody can deny that those that earn more than 1M+ a year have had luck play the biggest role in their path to get there (A-star actors, the guy who made Minecraft working 5-7 hours/week on it during college and sold it to Microsoft for 2,5 billion USD, 5M+ starting salaries for even the weakest in the elite sport world etc.). Now that we've established that luck plays the biggest factor in reaching those higher numbers, let's start with the question:

What side-hustle should a physician spend time on to maximize the chance of obtaining a net worth of 50m+ USD net worth before the age of 50? Could it flat out be the lottery? Would a lottery ticket giving you the jackpot of 50m+ USD be more likely to obtain than having a specific high-risk investment (business, investing in startups etc.) give that? Could it be to buy and run gas-stations? Sell nutritional supplements?

Safe investing for a physician earning 300k a year would only yield a net worth of 5-6 million USD by the age of 65. And that is a joke in my eyes considering the journey. But that's not what this thread is about. I want to know that side-hustle bears the highest chance to yield the desired net worth of 50m+ USD.
Totally illogical, nonsensical post.

Even if it were the case that luck were involved in some examples you mention, why does that extrapolate to luck being involved for a physician to achieve that net worth?

Practically all your assumptions are wrong. You need to study what determines physician salaries, what determines the other salaries/amounts that you mentioned, probability, statistics, and expectation as a bare-minimum starting point. With that understanding, you would not ask any of the questions that you have asked.

I met a physician who met your criteria and knew of a few other examples.
 

Mman

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The goal is to have a net worth of 50 million USD before the age of 50.

Either way... I really want this thread to be taken seriously. I might come off as trolly in nature but I really am not. Considering how easy it is achieving these ultra high net worths these days with the blooming possibilities that have arisen from the Internet/social media I can't help but feel that for a stagnant or even decreasing compensatory market like medicine, those in these fields interested in money should seek those methods that are most likely to yield the 50 M USD goal before 50...

Life is too short to have it being spent worrying about finance. Hence, the goal is to devote time into side hustles most likely to yield the desired goal described above. Worst case scenario is that I'll remain as an middle upper class internist. Best case scenario is that side hustle yields me my goal which would allow me give me and my whole big family the FI life.
1) Medicine is extremely unlikely to give you the income to invest to reach the sum of money you desire.
2) I find it comical that you talk about how easy it is to achieve that kind of net worth these days. It isn't. It never was. In the US, something like 0.01% of households have a $50M net worth and I'd bet most of those have a head of household over age 50.
3) If you are going to end up getting to that net worth, it almost assuredly won't be because of a "side hustle". The odds of fiddling around for 5-10 hours a week on a side project and generating millions upon millions is remote.
4) Why on earth would you not be financially independent with less than $50M? I mean I can travel the world flying first class and staying in posh resorts and living in a mansion with kids in private schools by spending something like $250K per year which takes way, way, way, way, way less money than you are shooting for.


5) also find it funny when you compare salaries of physicians to athletes. Athletes are entertainers. They get paid large salaries because fans pay money to watch them do what they do, not because they have magically worked harder than anybody else doing some other job. Maybe you should become an entertainer if you want to earn massive salaries. Start your own youtube channel and get 1M subscribers and earn plenty of money from ad revenue.
 
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The top end of medicine doesn't have the ceiling that a corporate ladder offers but it has a much higher floor. There are tons of people who did a 4+1 in engineering and then a top mba after a few years, made good grades, and will never earn over $250k a year. However, these guys have a limitless ceiling. These are the guys running fortune 500 companies taking homes 20 million a year.
 
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1) Medicine is extremely unlikely to give you the income to invest to reach the sum of money you desire.
2) I find it comical that you talk about how easy it is to achieve that kind of net worth these days. It isn't. It never was. In the US, something like 0.01% of households have a $50M net worth and I'd bet most of those have a head of household over age 50.
3) If you are going to end up getting to that net worth, it almost assuredly won't be because of a "side hustle". The odds of fiddling around for 5-10 hours a week on a side project and generating millions upon millions is remote.
4) Why on earth would you not be financially independent with less than $50M? I mean I can travel the world flying first class and staying in posh resorts and living in a mansion with kids in private schools by spending something like $250K per year which takes way, way, way, way, way less money than you are shooting for.


5) also find it funny when you compare salaries of physicians to athletes. Athletes are entertainers. They get paid large salaries because fans pay money to watch them do what they do, not because they have magically worked harder than anybody else doing some other job. Maybe you should become an entertainer if you want to earn massive salaries. Start your own youtube channel and get 1M subscribers and earn plenty of money from ad revenue.
Regarding 3: Even if I devoted my main time into the kind of hustle to generate the desired net worth, the chances of obtaining the goal are remote. Hence this thread asking whether or not lottery might be the better choice than devoting time into a hustle. From what I've gathered, seems like a side hustle > lottery. And since it's most likely to not result in the desired goal, I always have medicine to fall back into.

I'll probably remain as a hospitalist and try my luck during the 7 days off. Just need to find a good market for something...
 

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Regarding 3: Even if I devoted my main time into the kind of hustle to generate the desired net worth, the chances of obtaining the goal are remote. Hence this thread asking whether or not lottery might be the better choice than devoting time into a hustle. From what I've gathered, seems like a side hustle > lottery. And since it's most likely to not result in the desired goal, I always have medicine to fall back into.

I'll probably remain as a hospitalist and try my luck during the 7 days off. Just need to find a good market for something...
to have an expected return of $50M in the lottery you basically need to buy $100M in lottery tickets since roughly half the money is given to states and half handed out as prize money.

I'd suggest lowering your target from $50M. I find it hard to believe you can't find complete financial independence at a far lower number.
 

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A lottery ticket only begins to have a positive expected value when the jackpot prize is about $1.5 billion and you win it with no other winners. It has only gone that high once. If you split the prize, then a ticket again has a negative expected value.

For developing a high net worth, longer times periods are what give compounding interest its power. So for the time frame of a physician, beginning a big salary at about age 30 and desiring to have $50 Million at age 50, then that is only 20 years of compounding. That is not long enough for compounding to do its real magic. That requires a break out performance.

But when I forecast my net worth at retirement, a specialist saving $300,000/year with a 5% interest rate will end up with $40,000,000.

What may also be neglected is the lifestyle one lives. A super saver's lifestyle will not be very flashy. To get a high net worth one needs to not spend one's money.

Developing a real estate empire can get you the higher net worth if you use leverage. Buy 10 rental properties a year and see what happens.
 
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Ever heard the expression that the Great Depression created more millionaires than it destroyed?

Buying in bad times is a way to get great returns on your money.

I feel that extreme leverage increases your risk, and you gave as much chance of going bankrupt as winning big.
 
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A lottery ticket only begins to have a positive expected value when the jackpot prize is about $1.5 billion and you win it with no other winners. It has only gone that high once. If you split the prize, then a ticket again has a negative expected value.

For developing a high net worth, longer times periods are what give compounding interest its power. So for the time frame of a physician, beginning a big salary at about age 30 and desiring to have $50 Million at age 50, then that is only 20 years of compounding. That is not long enough for compounding to do its real magic. That requires a break out performance.

But when I forecast my net worth at retirement, a specialist saving $300,000/year with a 5% interest rate will end up with $40,000,000.

What may also be neglected is the lifestyle one lives. A super saver's lifestyle will not be very flashy. To get a high net worth one needs to not spend one's money.

Developing a real estate empire can get you the higher net worth if you use leverage. Buy 10 rental properties a year and see what happens.
FYI it’s near impossible for 99% of doctors to save 300k/year. Even if you are a specialist in the 98th percentile, after taxes and normal (not flashy) living expenses you are doing super-well if you can manage 150k. Maybe 2 high earning specialists.
 

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FYI it’s near impossible for 99% of doctors to save 300k/year. Even if you are a specialist in the 98th percentile, after taxes and normal (not flashy) living expenses you are doing super-well if you can manage 150k. Maybe 2 high earning specialists.
I began as an anesthesiologist in the midwest. My costs of living were low, including a smallish house.

I ran many permutations of my finances on my spreadsheet. This was my super-saver scenario which simply had the goal to obtain as much money as possible, rather than spend it and enjoy it. I think it assumed that continued my frugal lifestyle after retirement, too, which gave compounding even more time to work.

But my current goal is early retirement with enough to last, but not too flashy.
 

Mman

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FYI it’s near impossible for 99% of doctors to save 300k/year. Even if you are a specialist in the 98th percentile, after taxes and normal (not flashy) living expenses you are doing super-well if you can manage 150k. Maybe 2 high earning specialists.
that's not exactly true. I know private specialists in ENT, ortho, radiology, anesthesia, neurosurg, and a few others in town that are making at least high 6 figures which means near $500K take home pay (or more) in a relatively low cost of living area.

Now is that every area of the country? Of course not. But within specialties there are places you can make way more than you would think.
 
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finalpsychyear

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that's not exactly true. I know private specialists in ENT, ortho, radiology, anesthesia, neurosurg, and a few others in town that are making at least high 6 figures which means near $500K take home pay (or more) in a relatively low cost of living area.

Now is that every area of the country? Of course not. But within specialties there are places you can make way more than you would think.
While this is true I highly doubt how long they will continue to generate that going forward. They should be hoping it last 10 years. I wouldn't hold my breath for any field after that continuing high 6 figures outside of cosmetic work in the right location and that will be a very small percentage of docs.

Just to show you how terrible docs salaries are now, I know in my family circle of friends and we are talking 20 years ago, docs were getting close and exceeding 1 mill 20 YEARS ago. That would be like 1.5 mill now and likely half the work.

If one can get to a 3-5 mill goal in todays dollars for the future, that is a great goal for most all docs. Time is priceless.
 
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dpmd

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FYI it’s near impossible for 99% of doctors to save 300k/year. Even if you are a specialist in the 98th percentile, after taxes and normal (not flashy) living expenses you are doing super-well if you can manage 150k. Maybe 2 high earning specialists.
Two incomes and no kids is the way to do it. Doesn't even have to be two super high earners. Live on what the non doc makes (assuming it isn't a minimum wage job) then everything the doc makes is able to work for you.
 

dpmd

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I have to say, this thread was a solid 5-10min of entertainment. +1 would read again.
It's like "should I do the thing that has a 1 in 300 million chance of getting the dollar amount I want or else I have nothing because a million or two in net worth is nothing to me". Followed by people telling him ways to guarantee several million that wouldn't rely on spending lots of time and effort (and probably money) to try to get rich quick and OP perseverating that he needs 50mil before 50 or his life has no meaning. But he isn't a troll and is super cereal about it.
 
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It's like "should I do the thing that has a 1 in 300 million chance of getting the dollar amount I want or else I have nothing because a million or two in net worth is nothing to me". Followed by people telling him ways to guarantee several million that wouldn't rely on spending lots of time and effort (and probably money) to try to get rich quick and OP perseverating that he needs 50mil before 50 or his life has no meaning. But he isn't a troll and is super cereal about it.
I can understand that for people born in the 1980s and below this question's significance may be hard to grasp but taking into account the growth of Internet and the countless money-making methods it has brought in (guys selling video games for billions, 13 year old girls doing makeup tutorials pulling in seven figures a month, that guy Ninja who streams video games on Twitch for seven figures a month and recently got paid 100 million USD from Microsoft to transition into Mixer aka their streaming platform etc.) while the academic fields have remained static or, in the case of medicine, suffering from declining reimbursements and encroachment from midlevels it should not be surprising to ask this question. The new entries into money-making Internet has brought in is going to concentrate the 1 %-ers and soon doctors will probably not be 10 % incomers anymore.

It's a relevant question to ask. I would say that at least for IM it will be more popular to remain as a hospitalist and leverage the flexible schedule to devote time into side hustles than to subspecialize and then transition either to part time hospitalist or PCP as the side-hustle starts to generate a nice chunk of the income.

Dr Mike on Youtube is a perfect example of somebody going into the direction I describe. FM physician, makes more on Youtube now than his doctor profession.
 

dpmd

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I can understand that for people born in the 1980s and below this question's significance may be hard to grasp but taking into account the growth of Internet and the countless money-making methods it has brought in (guys selling video games for billions, 13 year old girls doing makeup tutorials pulling in seven figures a month, that guy Ninja who streams video games on Twitch for seven figures a month and recently got paid 100 million USD from Microsoft to transition into Mixer aka their streaming platform etc.) while the academic fields have remained static or, in the case of medicine, suffering from declining reimbursements and encroachment from midlevels it should not be surprising to ask this question. The new entries into money-making Internet has brought in is going to concentrate the 1 %-ers and soon doctors will probably not be 10 % incomers anymore.

It's a relevant question to ask. I would say that at least for IM it will be more popular to remain as a hospitalist and leverage the flexible schedule to devote time into side hustles than to subspecialize and then transition either to part time hospitalist or PCP as the side-hustle starts to generate a nice chunk of the income.

Dr Mike on Youtube is a perfect example of somebody going into the direction I describe. FM physician, makes more on Youtube now than his doctor profession.
If you think it is that easy, why not start your you tube channel now. Why bother with becoming a doc? Oh wait, that is because for every internet star there are (thousands, hundreds or thousands, maybe more) of people trying to monetize what they do. You are entitled to your own values and opinions but you are not entitled to us not laughing at you for them.
 
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If you think it is that easy, why not start your you tube channel now. Why bother with becoming a doc? Oh wait, that is because for every internet star there are (thousands, hundreds or thousands, maybe more) of people trying to monetize what they do. You are entitled to your own values and opinions but you are not entitled to us not laughing at you for them.
Precisely. I know the risks that come with sidle-hustles or attempts to make it big in the entertainment field. Hence, I ensure I always have my IM career to pull back to in case things go south.

I am a hard-working man. I'm not like those stars in Hollywood who lived in the streets doing drugs and being lazy and then somehow rake in 100 million USD per video they make (robin downey jr and the likes of him). If they weren't lucky, they would still live in the slums. At least I ensure that my slum is my IM career,