Best Schools for Low GPA, possibly high OAT?

[tourterelle]

Hi everyone.

So I am hoping to apply to optometry school for F2013, however I have a low GPA (2.9) and a even lower major GPA (2.5 Chemistry major GPA). But I do go to a good school (ranked in the top 20s) with zero grade inflation unfortunately.

I haven't taken the OAT yet, but I plan on reconsidering applying if I cannot do very well on the OAT (I generally do standardized tests well), so let's say for fun that I have an above average OAT.

I also have 2 years of experience working in a fairly renowned ophthalmologist's office, but since it is an ophthalmologist vs. optometrist, would this still help or no?

What would you consider the easiest schools to get into for a low GPA?

I'm currently looking at:

1) Western (2011 GPA - 3.21)
2) TEXAS Rosenberg School of Optometry - 3.22
3) ARIZONA Midwestern University, Arizona College of Optometry - 3.24
3) Pennsylvania College of Optometry at Salus University - 3.36

As well as:
1) Nova - 3.35
2) Mass - 3.40

And as a desperate last resort, Puerto Rico...

What are your thoughts on these school as well as any additional schools I should possibly consider? THANKS!

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[Optomchick]

Hi everyone.

So I am hoping to apply to optometry school for F2013, however I have a low GPA (2.9) and a even lower major GPA (2.5 Chemistry major GPA). But I do go to a good school (ranked in the top 20s) with zero grade inflation unfortunately.

I haven't taken the OAT yet, but I plan on reconsidering applying if I cannot do very well on the OAT (I generally do standardized tests well), so let's say for fun that I have an above average OAT.

I also have 2 years of experience working in a fairly renowned ophthalmologist's office, but since it is an ophthalmologist vs. optometrist, would this still help or no?

What would you consider the easiest schools to get into for a low GPA?

I'm currently looking at:

1) Western (2011 GPA - 3.21)
2) TEXAS Rosenberg School of Optometry - 3.22
3) ARIZONA Midwestern University, Arizona College of Optometry - 3.24
3) Pennsylvania College of Optometry at Salus University - 3.36

As well as:
1) Nova - 3.35
2) Mass - 3.40

And as a desperate last resort, Puerto Rico...

What are your thoughts on these school as well as any additional schools I should possibly consider? THANKS!

Most schools really want at least a 3.0...I know Arizona screens out anyone with below a 2.75 science GPA...I would try to bring your GPA up to a 3.0 and then apply, it shouldn't be too hard. If you think by the time you bring it up, the cycle might be too late, then i would wait till next year.

 

[optoapp2012]

Most schools really want at least a 3.0...I know Arizona screens out anyone with below a 2.75 science GPA...I would try to bring your GPA up to a 3.0 and then apply, it shouldn't be too hard. If you think by the time you bring it up, the cycle might be too late, then i would wait till next year.

I agree - I think you should consider taking a year to do post-bacc work and retake the classes that dragged your GPA down. You could also do a 1 year masters program in the sciences. However, I know someone who did that and had practically a 4.0 in it and it still didn't get her into the schools she wanted....not that it works out that way for everyone. I think she applied late too. I'm not sure that schools would be willing to take a gamble on you even if you scored in the top 10% on the OAT. Your GPA is the measure of how you performed in classes at your school, the same thing they are admitting you to do at their school (only harder). So you need to focus on being able to demonstrate to them that you can handle the academics (not just score well on a standardized test).

However, I would strongly recommend contacting the admissions offices for each of those schools and asking if someone can advise you on your particular situation. It'd probably help them give you better answers if you take the OAT first, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't reach out to them now. They are really the best authority on what your chances are.

I also highly recommend getting more experience in an optometry office. Certainly the experience in the ophthalmologist's office will be helpful in your application - optometrists have to work with them all the time and need to understand their role in medicine. However, schools will likely ask you why you didn't pursue ophthalmology instead. Saying "I didn't think I'd get into med school, so I applied to optometry school instead" will not go over well (not that you would say that just spelling out what might go through their minds).

 

[tourterelle]

So would you say that there is no hope solely based upon GPA? And do you happen to know whether all schools would evaluate based upon science GPA or if there are any who care predominately about total GPA. Also what classes factor into science GPA? Does it include math or psych? The GPA listed is my chemistry GPA.

And in my ophthalmologist's office, the Dr has an optometrist (who I plan on asking to shadow) work up patients beforehand. Would this be sufficient? And for ophthalmology vs. optometry, would an honest answer like I don't care for the high stress and high risk lifestyle of a medical doctor as well as the fact that I don't feel like I have the eye/hand coordination to perform surgery work?

And in terms of retake, I have already graduated (and it would be impossible to retake even if I did not graduate). Do you mean at a community college? Would they even take this into account?

PS - Sorry for all the questions, I don't expect an answer for all, I'm just trying to get all the info I can since I feel like I don't know a ton about optometry admissions/there aren't as many good resources out there.

 

[tourterelle]

A reason I really do want to try and apply this year is because my top choice is Western and their average GPA has been increasing by leaps and bounds each year and I'm afraid by waiting my chances will actually decrease.

Also am I correct in assuming that I at least stand a shot at Puerto Rico? Is PR really that terrible? Any info/advice appreciated.

 

[tourterelle]

This is what I found regarding GPA calculations:

• Q: How are the OptomCAS GPAs calculated?
  
  A: OptomCAS will calculate numerous GPAs. The GPAs and hours will be summarized by academic year within undergraduate (freshman through senior year), post baccalaureate, and graduate work as well as summarized by area of study. There will also be a running total GPA for each academic year that will add all coursework together for an overall total GPA. The GPAs that will be calculated are:
  • Overall
  • By Term
  • Freshman
  • Sophomore
  • Junior
  • Senior
  • Post Baccalaureate
  • Graduate
  • GPAs by course subject
  Area of Study:
  
  • Biology/Life Science
  • Inorganic Chemistry
  • Organic Chemistry
  • Biochemistry
  • Physics
  • BCP Totals
  • Other Sciences
  • Math
  • English
  • Psychology
  • Other General
  
  https://portal.optomcas.org/applicants2013/faq/gpas.shtml

 

[optoapp2012]

I wouldn't say there's no hope! I would definitely talk to the schools (especially Western) before applying though. They might tell you that they have a hard cut-off where they won't consider anything below a certain score - but ask them, rather than the forum, about that so that you get the most accurate information.

Schools differ a lot on whether they look at your science or overall GPA...so they definitely aren't all the same on that. OptomCAS calculates a million different versions (okay, *slight* exaggeration) of your GPA so that schools can take the one that they value the most.

Science GPA = biology, chemistry, physics. They also consider "other science" that might be classes that fall into other categories (like biochemistry, health science, etc.) but still deal with similar topics. Math and psychology are part of your overall GPA but not the science one. Some schools look at just your pre-req GPA, and pre-reqs vary by school too.

High stress and high risk lifestyle as an MD is a fine answer for why not to pursue that route. I got that question and said that I wanted more flexibility in my schedule and to have a better work life balance that I felt like optometry offered. I also said that I wanted more interaction with patients in long-term relationships. I realize ophthalmologists get that too, but I felt like it's different for optometrists. So those answers are all along the same lines as yours!

I think that if you can really articulate how optometry differs as a profession and what all is involved, you'll be fine with the experience you have. I'd just recommend doing more shadowing for your own benefit to confirm that it's the career for you. When I applied, I had very little shadowing overall and just didn't focus on that in my application. I did a lot more shadowing after applying (and now work in an office) so that I feel comfortable in knowing that optometry IS in fact what I want to do.

Retaking classes...I can't remember quite how this works with OptomCAS. I *think* if you retake a class at the same university, they take the most recent grade in the class (whether or not its the higher one) and use that to factor your GPA. If you retake it at a different class, I think they average the grades. You could take it at a community college, but I would chat with Western or the other schools first. Sometimes it makes no difference whether you retake classes at a 2 or 4 year university, but other times they weight it differently. I know UHCO has a ranking system for the competitiveness of every university applicants apply with classes from and it's a very important factor they consider. Every school will differ on this - so check with them independently.

So would you say that there is no hope solely based upon GPA? And do you happen to know whether all schools would evaluate based upon science GPA or if there are any who care predominately about total GPA. Also what classes factor into science GPA? Does it include math or psych? The GPA listed is my chemistry GPA.

And in my ophthalmologist's office, the Dr has an optometrist (who I plan on asking to shadow) work up patients beforehand. Would this be sufficient? And for ophthalmology vs. optometry, would an honest answer like I don't care for the high stress and high risk lifestyle of a medical doctor as well as the fact that I don't feel like I have the eye/hand coordination to perform surgery work?

And in terms of retake, I have already graduated (and it would be impossible to retake even if I did not graduate). Do you mean at a community college? Would they even take this into account?

PS - Sorry for all the questions, I don't expect an answer for all, I'm just trying to get all the info I can since I feel like I don't know a ton about optometry admissions/there aren't as many good resources out there.

 

[optoapp2012]

A reason I really do want to try and apply this year is because my top choice is Western and their average GPA has been increasing by leaps and bounds each year and I'm afraid by waiting my chances will actually decrease.

Also am I correct in assuming that I at least stand a shot at Puerto Rico? Is PR really that terrible? Any info/advice appreciated.

I do think Western will get more and more competitive as they establish themselves, because Cali already has 2 competitive schools and attracts lots of aspiring optos. But I think you can work hard to improve your application in a year that will make a bigger difference than the leaps and bound of GPA averages will mean. All schools accept a range of GPA's because everyone's circumstances differ.

I don't really know much about PR other than what I read on the forum. But I think you pretty well summed it up when you said "as a desperate last resort..." - that means you don't want to go there, so you probably shouldn't apply. If you aren't excited about the school you're going to, it's going to be kind of miserable on top of lots of hard work. So personally I think it's more valuable to work on improving your application to go someplace you DO want to attend.

 

[Optomchick]

A reason I really do want to try and apply this year is because my top choice is Western and their average GPA has been increasing by leaps and bounds each year and I'm afraid by waiting my chances will actually decrease.

Also am I correct in assuming that I at least stand a shot at Puerto Rico? Is PR really that terrible? Any info/advice appreciated.

I think you're correct that Western is going to be extremely hard to get into after it gets accredited (hopefully next year). You have summer quarter and fall quarter to bring up your grades, if it means retaking classes at a CC or getting high grades in your other classes. Yes PR really is that terrible. I got accepted to Western with a 3.08 overall GPA, 320 OAT so I'd aim for at least that.

 

[q1we3]

I think you're correct that Western is going to be extremely hard to get into after it gets accredited (hopefully next year). You have summer quarter and fall quarter to bring up your grades, if it means retaking classes at a CC or getting high grades in your other classes. Yes PR really is that terrible. I got accepted to Western with a 3.08 overall GPA, 320 OAT so I'd aim for at least that.

Wait a sec, Western is not accredited yet? When does the first class graduate? What if it takes longer than expected to get accredited what will happen to the grads?

 

[thecgrblue]

Get above a 300 TS/AA, apply broadly, and you will get in somewhere.

Applicant pool isn't expanding to heavily and more spots open up = lower standards

 

[Optomchick]

Wait a sec, Western is not accredited yet? When does the first class graduate? What if it takes longer than expected to get accredited what will happen to the grads?

trolling? lol yes Western, UIW, midwestern, MCPHS aren't accredited. They will not be able to practice. Western's first class graduates spring 2013.

 

[q1we3]

Get above a 300 TS/AA, apply broadly, and you will get in somewhere.

Applicant pool isn't expanding to heavily and more spots open up = lower standards

How is the former pre-optometry student doing? Glad to see you still miss these forums.
You must be excited about starting med school.

 

[q1we3]

trolling? lol yes Western, UIW, midwestern, MCPHS aren't accredited. They will not be able to practice. Western's first class graduates spring 2013.

It was a honest question, I thought all schools in CA were accredited. I am assuming you are from CA so you went with Western. Anyways, I hope ACOE can accredit them soon for the sake of the students in these schools.

But, wouldn't you agree that these newer schools are hurting the profession in general. Now please don't take this the wrong way, I am not saying that these are horrible schools or produce incompetent ODs. Because at the end of the end an OD degree is an OD degree, we all have to pass the same boards. All I am saying it is better if students avoid these schools if they can, so others think twice before opening more and more schools. As long as these schools keep filling their seats more schools will keep coming, regardless of if any of us can find any decent jobs in the future.

 

[Optomchick]

It was a honest question, I thought all schools in CA were accredited. I am assuming you are from CA so you went with Western. Anyways, I hope ACOE can accredit them soon for the sake of the students in these schools.

But, wouldn't you agree that these newer schools are hurting the profession in general. Now please don't take this the wrong way, I am not saying that these are horrible schools or produce incompetent ODs. Because at the end of the end an OD degree is an OD degree, we all have to pass the same boards. All I am saying it is better if students avoid these schools if they can, so others think twice before opening more and more schools. As long as these schools keep filling their seats more schools will keep coming, regardless of if any of us can find any decent jobs in the future.

The profession was already heading downhill without the new schools. With the economy downturn, people aren't going to go to private practices when their local Costco or Walmart is offering exams half the price.

Schools are going to have students no matter what we say about them. I found it kind of shocking that MCPHS was able to fill their seats considering how late they added onto OptomCAS this cycle.

 

[QueenieCSS]

And in my ophthalmologist's office, the Dr has an optometrist (who I plan on asking to shadow) work up patients beforehand. Would this be sufficient? And for ophthalmology vs. optometry, would an honest answer like I don't care for the high stress and high risk lifestyle of a medical doctor as well as the fact that I don't feel like I have the eye/hand coordination to perform surgery work?

It is probably a good a idea to try to shadow both the optometrist inside of the ophthalmologist office and a separate optometrist. Even if the schools don't require it, it will give you a better idea of what the field you want to join entails. You may end up working at an ophthalmologist's office, private practice, or corporate. Wouldn't it be great to know what these jobs might be like before going to school and later getting disappointed in the office opportunity you end up with.

As for why you want to do optometry v. ophthalmology - stick with what you like about optometry, not what you don't like about ophthalmology. It is okay to talk about that if they ask but you should be sure to highlight the points of optometry so they know you are interested in the field and you aren't just doing it because you don't want to be an ophthalmologist.

Good luck!

 

[imthe_ishhh]

Hi everyone.

So I am hoping to apply to optometry school for F2013, however I have a low GPA (2.9) and a even lower major GPA (2.5 Chemistry major GPA). But I do go to a good school (ranked in the top 20s) with zero grade inflation unfortunately.

I haven't taken the OAT yet, but I plan on reconsidering applying if I cannot do very well on the OAT (I generally do standardized tests well), so let's say for fun that I have an above average OAT.

I also have 2 years of experience working in a fairly renowned ophthalmologist's office, but since it is an ophthalmologist vs. optometrist, would this still help or no?

What would you consider the easiest schools to get into for a low GPA?

I'm currently looking at:

1) Western (2011 GPA - 3.21)
2) TEXAS Rosenberg School of Optometry - 3.22
3) ARIZONA Midwestern University, Arizona College of Optometry - 3.24
3) Pennsylvania College of Optometry at Salus University - 3.36

As well as:
1) Nova - 3.35
2) Mass - 3.40

And as a desperate last resort, Puerto Rico...

What are your thoughts on these school as well as any additional schools I should possibly consider? THANKS!

Hey so did you get in anywhere?