Best single predictor of board passage

[UTKB]

Was at an interview the other day, and the chairman/program director said the single best predictor for who passes anesthesia written boards is not step 1, not grades, etc., but step 2 score. Specifically, if you score 230 or higher, you are likely to pass. He mentioned that he likes applicants who meet that criteria.

Thought about looking for the study. Don't know who did it, or when, and I'm too lazy to find it.

I don't even care about anesthesia boards right now personally, just enjoying 4th year

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[Pilot Doc]

Was at an interview the other day, and the chairman/program director said the single best predictor for who passes anesthesia written boards is not step 1, not grades, etc., but step 2 score. Specifically, if you score 230 or higher, you are likely to pass. He mentioned that he likes applicants who meet that criteria.

Thought about looking for the study. Don't know who did it, or when, and I'm too lazy to find it.

I don't even care about anesthesia boards right now personally, just enjoying 4th year

That's what, an 80th percentile score? Kinda useless.

 

[coprolalia]

Yeah, what's that based on? His own anecdotal observation?

"If you score 230 or higher, you are likely to pass." Gimme a break.

-copro

 

[2ndyear]

I don't think I cracked 200 on Step 2, but I beat the mean on the written boards.

 

[Chrysanthemum]

yeah that's like how the mcat is a predictor of how u'll do in med school and on the boards. well i didn't do well on my mcats but i did average in med school and i ended up killing my boards. these correlations don't always match up.

it's too hard to predict board scores that far in advance... way too many variables during those years.

 

[mille125]

i know that i didnt break 200 on Step 2 because I could have cared less at that point. I also beat the mean on the written. I know of at least two others that have the same story. This PD theory is as worthless as a three headed coin.

 

[escape78]

Pretty interesting!

The resident application process and its correlation to future performance as a resident:
http://www.anesthesia-analgesia.org/cgi/content/full/100/2/502

 

[Pilot Doc]

This PD theory is as worthless as a three headed coin.

you're not looking at it from teh PD's point of view. He's not interested in fairness or the fact that many people can pass the boards after average performance on previous tests. The PD wants all his residents to pass the boards. The way to do that is exclude anyone who has as low as a 90% chance of passing. The way to do that is to set a really high bar.

Of course, if you can recruit that type of applicant, you probably have a good program that would teach anyone to pass.

 

[Chrysanthemum]

well however bs it is to pick someone based on their board scores i hope this PD is at the program that i want to get into bc i'm at the top of the food chain on this one.

 

[CambieMD]

i know that i didnt break 200 on Step 2 because I could have cared less at that point. I also beat the mean on the written. I know of at least two others that have the same story. This PD theory is as worthless as a three headed coin.

The truth is that usmle scores are useless in predicting a lot of things. Too much is based on usmle scores. You can pass all of your step exams by one point and ace your written boards. Never under estimate the power of hard work. I have seen very smart people go down in flames on the written ABA exam and others who were considered iffy blow the boards away. What made the difference. Hard work and curiosity.

A score of 230. That is so much crap. Part one of the gas exam is a knowledge test. If you read about the topic being asked and knew the principal you will answer the question correctly. There is not secret to this thing.

That PD is out of touch. We never look applicant scores on interview day. The thinking is that the scores will sway the interviewer either positively or negatively. All interviewees are viewed equally.

For years surgery programs have not viewed board scores on interview day.

I am not saying that board scores are not used. They figure in who receives an interview.

There is absolutely no relationship between my step 1,2 or 3 scores and my score on the ABA written exam.

We really don't have that much to evaluate most applicants so board scores take on an inflated importance when looking @ med student applicants.

Board scores don't take care of patients, people do. Is it a given that an individual with a 260 will give better care than someone with a 210. I do not think so.

Interpersonal skills are often overlooked in this process. A teachable person with marginal board scores may do better than someone with excellent scores who is overly opinionated and lazy.

Cambie

 

[Planktonmd]

If you do a residency in Anesthesiology and you don't have extra chromosomes and you were not dropped on your head as a baby then you will most likely pass the written exam.

 

[DrN2O]

The truth is that usmle scores are useless in predicting a lot of things. Too much is based on usmle scores. You can pass all of your step exams by one point and ace your written boards. Never under estimate the power of hard work. I have seen very smart people go down in flames on the written ABA exam and others who were considered iffy blow the boards away. What made the difference. Hard work and curiosity.

So does it mean people with poor board scores didn't put in the hard work? And why would they be considered better candidates than those who did well? Ok, obviously board scores are not just about hard work, but I see no reason why candidates with low scores shouldn't have extra to prove that they are better than their scores, just as the ones with high scores have to prove they are not just robots with memory chips.

 

[maceo]

A score of 230. That is so much crap. Part one of the gas exam is a knowledge test. If you read about the topic being asked and knew the principal you will answer the question correctly. There is not secret to this thing.

That PD is out of touch. We never look applicant scores on interview day. The thinking is that the scores will sway the interviewer either positively or negatively. All interviewees are viewed equally.

For years surgery programs have not viewed board scores on interview day.

I am not saying that board scores are not used. They figure in who receives an interview.

There is absolutely no relationship between my step 1,2 or 3 scores and my score on the ABA written exam.

We really don't have that much to evaluate most applicants so board scores take on an inflated importance when looking @ med student applicants.

Board scores don't take care of patients, people do. Is it a given that an individual with a 260 will give better care than someone with a 210. I do not think so.

Interpersonal skills are often overlooked in this process. A teachable person with marginal board scores may do better than someone with excellent scores who is overly opinionated and lazy.

Cambie

i always said the usmle is a licensure exam academic decisions should not be based on the usmle. there should not be a numeric score associated with the usmle . I think programs are extremely short sighted for using the usmle scores to base who gets into their program. Written narative evaluations are far more useful to gauge compatibility and future success.

 

[maceo]

So does it mean people with poor board scores didn't put in the hard work? And why would they be considered better candidates than those who did well? Ok, obviously board scores are not just about hard work, but I see no reason why candidates with low scores shouldn't have extra to prove that they are better than their scores, just as the ones with high scores have to prove they are not just robots with memory chips.

the boards should be pass/ fail. NO numeric scores should be associated with it.

 

[Bertelman]

i always said the usmle is a licensure exam academic decisions should not be based on the usmle. there should not be a numeric score associated with the usmle . I think programs are extremely short sighted for using the usmle scores to base who gets into their program. Written narative evaluations are far more useful to gauge compatibility and future success.

the boards should be pass/ fail. NO numeric scores should be associated with it.

I think the NBME says the same about their exam..."not to be used for ranking candidates" or comparing passing scores.

If they really believe as much, they would make it P/F. Of course, I also know a handful of Type-A med school supersatrs who wouldn't know what to do with themselves if they never realized how badly they beat the mean.

 

[positraction]

Heard they are going to make it strictly a licensing exam instead of a scored exam. It will be "PASS" or "NOT PASS." No more failure language to discourage candidates. No more screening tool for residencies.

 

[CambieMD]

So does it mean people with poor board scores didn't put in the hard work? And why would they be considered better candidates than those who did well? Ok, obviously board scores are not just about hard work, but I see no reason why candidates with low scores shouldn't have extra to prove that they are better than their scores, just as the ones with high scores have to prove they are not just robots with memory chips.

I am saying that on the first day of residency everyone goes back to the back of the line and everyone is @ zero. You have to prove yourself all over again. Your performance in med school doesn't matter. Everyone has to prove themselves.

Cambie

 

[pgg]

Heard they are going to make it strictly a licensing exam instead of a scored exam. It will be "PASS" or "NOT PASS." No more failure language to discourage candidates. No more screening tool for residencies.

Will they give out personalized Participation Trophies too? A framable Certificate Of Accomplishment for not stabbing yourself with the #2 pencil?

***** **** ****ing *****. What is the world coming to when we're afraid of discouraging or hurting a doctor's feelings?

 

[positraction]

Will they give out personalized Participation Trophies too? A framable Certificate Of Accomplishment for not stabbing yourself with the #2 pencil?

***** **** ****ing *****. What is the world coming to when we're afraid of discouraging or hurting a doctor's feelings?

Totally with you on this one! Just the messenger here! Maybe residencies will have to get their own exam to separate people. Or maybe the new "kinder, gentler" knife is just a sign of the times. Who knows what to expect in the soon-to-be Obama-nation?

 

[Trisomy13]

If you do a residency in Anesthesiology and you don't have extra chromosomes and you were not dropped on your head as a baby then you will most likely pass the written exam.

should i be concerned, based on my screenname?

 

[Labslave]

i always said the usmle is a licensure exam academic decisions should not be based on the usmle. there should not be a numeric score associated with the usmle . I think programs are extremely short sighted for using the usmle scores to base who gets into their program. Written narative evaluations are far more useful to gauge compatibility and future success.

Hate to say it, but if you were actually right about this, people wouldn't be depending on board scores so heavily in the more competitive fields (go ahead and talk about how they only use them because they have nothing else to go on - it's your only legit defense). It's so much harder to compare subjective comments made during third year rotations that are inherently dependent upon how much stink a medical student is willing to smell than it is to compare scores on an objective, standardized exam.

I agree that board scores are not an ideal measure by any means. Ultimately, it might not predict how great of a doctor you'll be, but it definitely has something to say about how fast you pick things up and how hard you're willing to work. Anyone who says otherwise is highly likely to have scored poorly. Sad but true.

 

[CambieMD]

Hate to say it, but if you were actually right about this, people wouldn't be depending on board scores so heavily in the more competitive fields (go ahead and talk about how they only use them because they have nothing else to go on - it's your only legit defense). It's so much harder to compare subjective comments made during third year rotations that are inherently dependent upon how much stink a medical student is willing to smell than it is to compare scores on an objective, standardized exam.

I agree that board scores are not an ideal measure by any means. Ultimately, it might not predict how great of a doctor you'll be, but it definitely has something to say about how fast you pick things up and how hard you're willing to work. Anyone who says otherwise is highly likely to have scored poorly. Sad but true.

Some programs use board scores for screening purposes. If you make the cut-off you get an interview. Your board scores are not viewed by the faculty interviewing you. Many surgery programs use usmle scores this way.

The usmle exams do serve a purpose. If you cannot pass them you can't become a physician.

Ones usmle score may or may not say how quickly one picks things up. I can tell you that it says nothing about how hard a trainee will be willing to work.

I was told that you need an IQ of 120 -130 to be a physician. Most people who make it through med school are probably of above average intelligence.
What I think really seperates physicians is curiosity, work ethic, the willingness to learn and be taught and people skills.

Cambie