Best way to counter "US has spends more than other countries on healthcare with worse results"?

[johnfree7]

I frequently hear the argument the US healthcare system needs to radically change because we spend so much more than other high-income countries with equal if not worse health outcomes for the general population. They bring up US life expectancy (US is around 78 vs. 80+ in other first world countries), infant mortality rates (5.8/1000 vs 3.6/1000), obesity rate, comparable survival rates from heart disease, cancer, etc. equally if not more prevalent mental health issues coupled with higher treatment costs, higher diagnostic imaging costs, as well as the high cost of procedures such as cesarean births or knee replacements with no better quality of care. They seem to forget the value of healthcare innovation in the US and less wait times, but what's the best way to counter this argument?

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[VA Hopeful Dr]

Our obesity rate (and thus all of the downstream effects of this like diabetes, CV disease, and so on) is significantly higher than other OECD countries. This also is likely a large part of our infant mortality problem.

If you remove car wrecks and murders, out life expectancy is higher than everyone else.

Our 5 year survival rates for common cancers is higher than everyone else. The Myth of Americans' Poor Life Expectancy

That should get you started.

 

[SurfingDoctor]

Rationing. Lots of rationing.

 

[Eyeronic]

Turn off the TV (and its nauseating continuous news stream channels) and invest the extra time in a new hobby you enjoy.

 

[Gyuji]

Deregulation and free-market... LOL

 

[deleted941485]

We spend more for the same outcomes

What outcomes?

Spend more on what exactly?

Healthcare in Washington DC has essentially been a non stop issue for the last 10 years. After single payer is passed, it will be just as all consuming.

 

[Sushirolls]

I frequently hear the argument the US healthcare system needs to radically change because we spend so much more than other high-income countries with equal if not worse health outcomes for the general population. They bring up US life expectancy (US is around 78 vs. 80+ in other first world countries), infant mortality rates (5.8/1000 vs 3.6/1000), obesity rate, comparable survival rates from heart disease, cancer, etc. equally if not more prevalent mental health issues coupled with higher treatment costs, higher diagnostic imaging costs, as well as the high cost of procedures such as cesarean births or knee replacements with no better quality of care. They seem to forget the value of healthcare innovation in the US and less wait times, but what's the best way to counter this argument?

"We as Americans value freedom and our ability to exercise lawyers instead of ourselves. We preserve the right to make bad lifestyle choices, and we do. Freedom isn't ever free, and our health stats are further evidence of the price we pay to stay free." "Where's my cigar, McDonalds, lazy boy recliner, Jack Daniels, and HBO?"

 

[GH253]

The argument for socialized medicine:
-false alternative: the status quo or full single-payer
-correlation vs. causation: cherry-pick statistics like average lifespan as proof that socialized medicine WORKS!
-drop the tried-and-true inanity "every other industrialized nation has single-payer" as self-evident proof of it's correctness

 

[Gyuji]

The argument for socialized medicine:
-false alternative: the status quo or full single-payer
-correlation vs. causation: cherry-pick statistics like average lifespan as proof that socialized medicine WORKS!
-drop the tried-and-true inanity "every other industrialized nation has single-payer" as self-evident proof of it's correctness

Then, come up with a better solution to the horrendous medical system that we got that can sway voters from "socialized medicine." More and more people find it appealing and are aware of its benefits.

 

[deleted480308]

Then, come up with a better solution to the horrendous medical system that we got that can sway voters from "socialized medicine." More and more people find it appealing and are aware of its benefits.

It’s immoral to pillage your neighbor because you don’t want to be responsible for your own consumption, but personal responsibility doesn’t make a good campaign slogan

 

[deleted859689]

Nutrition education in America is horrendous. We don’t even teach our kids how to cook - they end up living off processed foods and snacks like pop-tarts their entire life.

Second to that is health education, maybe if people knew more about their bodies they wouldn’t go straight to the ER when they get some heart burn. Other countries have a better education system. Just my own thoughts.

 

[Detective SnowBucket]

Nutrition education in America is horrendous. We don’t even teach our kids how to cook - they end up living off processed foods and snacks like pop-tarts their entire life.

Second to that is health education, maybe if people knew more about their bodies they wouldn’t go straight to the ER when they get some heart burn. Other countries have a better education system. Just my own thoughts.

I'm interested to hear which countries do either of these things. I've grown up in 4 countries and have friends from many of the surrounding ones, perhaps 10-15 countries represented in close friends and I've never heard of any of these coming from schools.

 

[deleted859689]

Japan, shokuiku.
Edit: and it’s the law.

Shokuiku - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Detective SnowBucket]

Japan, shokuiku.

Shokuiku - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

And 99% of US schools have nutrition education, doesn't mean its any good in either place.

 

[deleted859689]

And 99% of US schools have nutrition education, doesn't mean its any good in either place.

“Topics in nutrition covered by more than 90 percent of all schools are: the relationship between diet and health, finding and choosing healthy foods, nutrients and their food sources, the Food Guide Pyramid, and the Dietary Guidelines and goals (Table 4). However, with the exception of the Food Guide Pyramid, less than half of schools cover these topics thoroughly”

Nutrition education in America is poorly defined. They define learning only about the food pyramid as nutrition education? Laughable. Japan has stringent guidelines and have their kids cook and serve each other food in class. I mean, look at their obesity rate compared to the US. Also here’s an NPR article on how our food pyramid is outdated. And that was in 2002.

Is the Food Pyramid Obsolete?

The food pyramid is an American icon. But a new Harvard study says people are healthier if they eat fewer carbohydrates and more fat than it recommends. Nutritionists are calling for a new pyramid and a revamping of government guidelines for a healthy diet. NPR's Richard Knox reports.

www.npr.org

 

[GH253]

Then, come up with a better solution to the horrendous medical system that we got that can sway voters from "socialized medicine." More and more people find it appealing and are aware of its benefits.

I cannot deal with someone who thinks right and wrong is a matter of what sways voters.

 

[nimbus]

And 99% of US schools have nutrition education, doesn't mean its any good in either place.

Nutrition education is pissing into the wind compared to all the fast food marketing brought to us by the free market and the corporate food industrial complex.

For every hour of nutrition education, we probably get 2000hrs of fast food commercials. Spicy chicken sandwich....right?

And our system is truly wasteful with single use disposable everything, ritz Carlton style hospital lobbies, and a bloated delivery system. Even a minor case in the OR like a breast biopsy generates at least 3 huge bags of trash. Other cases will generate more than 10 bags of trash. A lot of stuff we use once would be reused until no longer functional in other countries. I’ve spent time in hospitals in both Mexico and Korea and ours are just ridiculously wasteful and ostentatious. A monument to the huge American ego. Just like our homes.

Sowell is only partially right. It’s not just government bureaucracy but also corporate bureaucracy. Insurance companies hire hoards to market their plans, sign up as many patients as possible, then provide as little services as possible. Then hospitals and medical groups hire their own hoards to battle the insurance company hoards and collect as much as possible.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I meant why govt?

Because the user you were quoting was a spammer.

 

[deleted480308]

Because the user you were quoting was a spammer.

THat explains them going *poof*

 

[Cornfed101]

It’s immoral to pillage your neighbor because you don’t want to be responsible for your own consumption, but personal responsibility doesn’t make a good campaign slogan

Blame Game with Malcolm Gladwell | E8/S1: Revisionist History Podcast (Transcript)

blog.simonsays.ai

This reminded me of a great episode of Revisionist History about Toyota paying billions of dollars to the government because people won't take responsibility for their own stupidity.

TLDR: hundreds of people were injured or killed because of a "sticky accelerator" in Toyotas that caused people to accelerate uncontrollably until they crashed. Turns out they just mistook the accelerator for the brake! The problem is that when experts accused it on the "victims", it was shot down. It couldn't possibly be the fault of the drivers! Well, it was.