better experience: hopkins or upenn?

[davidus]

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I certainly don't have such a fabulous choice to make at this point. But I'm very curious about the comparison between these two...

I have the sense that Baltimore is not the funnest place to be (probably worse than Philly), but reputationwise JHU might be the tiniest smidgeon better than UPenn. At the same time, I get the sense that Penn students enjoy themselves more and overall rate their experience better -- not sure whether this is due to less competitiveness or not... I was curious about your input. Thanks!

 

[GuyLaroche]

JHU - rolling
UPenn - not rolling

I think that says a lot.

 

[Shaz]

The students at both places seemed happy to me, but you know how it is: they always bring in the "happiest" students to interview you and give you a tour.

I will say this though: Penn has its undergrad right by the medschool, which might make things more interesting. However, I did feel that the students at hopkins were a little bit more close knit because all the medical and housing facilities were so nearby...and Baltimore is probably not that bad.

In my opinion, I'd still choose Hopkins, because the Hospital is a legend in the medical field. Sure Penn is older, but Bob Barker is older than Alex Trebek, does that make him any better?

(Yeah, I didn't get that one either.)

 

[MWillie]

JHU - rolling
UPenn - not rolling

I think that says a lot.

Wait, what's that say?

 

[willthatsall]

Wait, what's that say?

I was wondering the same

 

[davidus]

I'm not exactly sure why some schools are rolling and some aren't. Seems like the schools that are more "confident" that they'll get who they want might be non-rolling. But then again, maybe it's just the schools who feel they can accurately predict yield (percentage of students accepting admissions offer). Stealing from a year old thread, I dug up the yields someone calculated:

U of Wash 76% 235 178
Harvard 67% 246 165
UCSF 60% 234 141
Baylor 57% 295 168
Penn 57% 260 148
Duke 53% 190 101
Columbia 51% 290 149
UCLA-G 51% 237 121
UTSW-D 51% 431 218
Mayo 47% 89 42
Michigan 47% 362 170
J. Hopkins 46% 260 120
Yale 46% 221 101
Cornell 46% 221 101
Stanford 44% 195 86
UCSD 41% 295 122
Wash U 40% 308 122
Vandy 37% 280 104
Emory 37% 304 111
Pitt 35% 417 146

I believe the above list takes the top 20 or so schools and ranks them via yield (calculated from #matriculating/#accepted).

I would consider yield the closest thing we have to "desirability" of different schools. There's def no clear correlation with the rolling status of schools...

Of course, yield takes into account a lot more than simply location and quality/enjoyment of education. State schools get an edge I presume due to their downsized tuitions...

 

[IndyZX]

If money wasn't a factor, there is only one school that I interviewed at that I'd go to over Hopkins, and that'd be Penn. That place was amazing. I loved it.

 

[linuxizer]

The students at both places seemed happy to me, but you know how it is: they always bring in the "happiest" students to interview you and give you a tour.
I will say this though: Penn has its undergrad right by the medschool, which might make things more interesting. However, I did feel that the students at hopkins were a little bit more close knit because all the medical and housing facilities were so nearby...and Baltimore is probably not that bad.

All the med students I've met at Penn (none of whom give interviews, I'm pretty sure) are really happy. Strangely happy, now that you mention it. They're supposed to be suffering, darn it! But seriously, I know quite a few. There are a handful of med students in the Penn Orchestra, and I've had a few other EC's with med students in them, which I guess is a big advantage of having the ugrad on campus. Can't say anything about Hopkins, though, so this little anecdote tells you little except that the 'interview effect' for happy students is real.

Oh, and Baltimore doesn't begin to compare to Philly. Kids I've talked to at JHU undergrad generally say they spend weekends in D.C., so maybe that's where you should make your comparison?

But I'm biased 😛.

Ari

 

[funshine]

Interesting. The only experience I have is w/ Penn undergrads (snotty bunch of kids). So I shouldn't let my negative opinion of their undergrad affect whether I want to apply to the med school?


Philly is really awful though, IMO. Girls are treated to catcalls and worse every time they step out into the streets. I can't imagine Baltimore being worse.

 

[brucecat]

I've lived in both baltimore and philly for extended periods of time, and baltimore doesn't compare. If you were choosing solely on location, philly is a much cooler town.

 

[GuyLaroche]

U of Wash 76% 235 178
Harvard 67% 246 165
UCSF 60% 234 141
Baylor 57% 295 168
Penn 57% 260 148
Duke 53% 190 101
Columbia 51% 290 149
UCLA-G 51% 237 121
UTSW-D 51% 431 218
Mayo 47% 89 42
Michigan 47% 362 170
J. Hopkins 46% 260 120
Yale 46% 221 101
Cornell 46% 221 101
Stanford 44% 195 86
UCSD 41% 295 122
Wash U 40% 308 122
Vandy 37% 280 104
Emory 37% 304 111
Pitt 35% 417 146

I believe the above list takes the top 20 or so schools and ranks them via yield (calculated from #matriculating/#accepted).

I disagree with this analysis. Rolling attempts to capture the best applicants earlier. It's for this reason also that rolling schools begin to throw money at you even before March. If JHU wasn't concerned about its location and its resulting matriculation rates, they wouldn't roll. Besides, I can't believe U of Wash does better than the almighty Harvard.

 

[USCTex]

Rolling attempts to capture the best applicants earlier.

How would rolling do this? Only kids with all the money in the world wouldn't wait until all their schools had made a decision on them and they had seen fin aid packages before they made up their mind about where they wanted to go...

Rolling admissions can't capture any kids early because unless you get an acceptance to a school you knew before you interviewed was your dream school, then you're still going to wait until May, until all your acceptances are in, to make up your mind about where you want to go.

There really isn't a disadvantage for non-rolling schools...I mean, how many offers of admissions is Penn going to send out and those applicants are going to go, "Oh, I already made up my mind from a school that offers rolling admission...sorry..." -- very few.

 

[linuxizer]

I can't believe U of Wash does better than the almighty Harvard.

More Midwestern applicants, less regional competition?
Ari

 

[GuyLaroche]

How would rolling do this? Only kids with all the money in the world wouldn't wait until all their schools had made a decision on them and they had seen fin aid packages before they made up their mind about where they wanted to go...

Rolling admissions can't capture any kids early because unless you get an acceptance to a school you knew before you interviewed was your dream school, then you're still going to wait until May, until all your acceptances are in, to make up your mind about where you want to go.

There really isn't a disadvantage for non-rolling schools...I mean, how many offers of admissions is Penn going to send out and those applicants are going to go, "Oh, I already made up my mind from a school that offers rolling admission...sorry..." -- very few.

Again, I respectfully disagree. The trick to rolling is that while you're waiting on March, you receive an acceptance from a school. Not too long afterwards, you receive a great scholarship. Then you receive three e-mails each telling you to respond in writing to the scholarship. Then, there is a call from the dean, your interviewer and the financial aid administrator. There are four letters sent to you, each informing you of what you've heard by e-mail and phone call. Very quickly, a school that may not have been too high on your list begins to get very serious consideration. In fact, I believe AMA is looking into schools that put pressure on applicants before May 15. Trust me, rolling is used as a recruitment tool.

 

[GuyLaroche]

More Midwestern applicants, less regional competition?
Ari

These arguments do little to dilute the Harvard mystique. I am quite sure Harvard retains more applicants offered an acceptance than all other schools. I'd be sceptical of an unofficial SDN analysis of matriculation rates.

 

[VienneseWaltz]

To answer the OP's question, it's something you have to figure out for yourself. Baltimore is grossly underrated (especially by people who don't even live here), but Philly is a great town. Penn and Hopkins both start on the wards early and give you flexibility on the boards (I think--I know Hopkins does). Both are exceptional schools with exceptional hospitals. Both have fascinating students and (from what I'm told of Penn) tight-knit classes.

A LOT of applicants (including myself and several people in my class) found themselves with Penn & Hopkins as their top two choices.

My advice to anyone deciding between the two is to attend both revisit weekends and see which PEOPLE you feel more at home with. It's your classmates that will carry you through med school--not the city, the quality of teaching, or the presitige of the hospital, which are so comparable between Penn and Hopkins as to be negligible.

 

[davidus]

These arguments do little to dilute the Harvard mystique. I am quite sure Harvard retains more applicants offered an acceptance than all other schools. I'd be sceptical of an unofficial SDN analysis of matriculation rates.

Using the latest US News total #accepted vs total #enrolled I have:

Harvard: 165/250 = .66
UWash: 178/235 = .71

Assuming that Harvard is "the place where everyone wants to be" which granted is a huge ass-out-of-u-and-me kind of deal, then I think the fact that UWash is at the top in terms of yield can be explained by the nature of their acceptances. UWash takes almost all in-staters. Moreover, the overall stats (avg GPA 3.69/MCAT 31.2) are far lower to get into UWash than to get in any comparably ranked school. Please don't flame me, but I'd have to say based on these stats, it's easier to get into UWash than into any other comparably ranked school for a WWAMI applicant. Thus, there are probably many applicants who get into UWash that don't have any other choices at such a high reputation level. This combined with the cheap tuition makes UWash a no-brainer. There'are no schools that compare for someone in this position.... Harvard acceptees on the other hand, do have scholarship offers from competing schools to contend with along with other things...

 

[davidus]

My advice to anyone deciding between the two is to attend both revisit weekends and see which PEOPLE you feel more at home with. It's your classmates that will carry you through med school--not the city, the quality of teaching, or the presitige of the hospital, which are so comparable between Penn and Hopkins as to be negligible.

I think Viennese has a great point about choosing based on classmates... The one annoying part of judging this based on the revisit weekends, however, is that half of the people revisiting that you befriend will likely matriculate elsewhere. What if that's the half that you happen to really like?

 

[twicetenturns]

These arguments do little to dilute the Harvard mystique. I am quite sure Harvard retains more applicants offered an acceptance than all other schools. I'd be sceptical of an unofficial SDN analysis of matriculation rates.

I think the math is good. The real deal is that UW is an awesome school at a bargain basement price. Same with UCSF. The only reason UCSF doesn't have a retention greater than Harvard's is because they compete with Harvard for their applicants. UW applicants tend to have stats closer to average (due to UW's near complete commitment to in states applicants) than those to the other schools on this list, so they aren't as competitive elsewhere. But when you get in to UW, you can't get a better deal. I wish I grew up in Alaska 😀

 

[Sarikate]

I think the math is good. The real deal is that UW is an awesome school at a bargain basement price. Same with UCSF. The only reason UCSF doesn't have a retention greater than Harvard's is because they compete with Harvard for their applicants. UW applicants tend to have stats closer to average (due to UW's near complete commitment to in states applicants) than those to the other schools on this list, so they aren't as competitive elsewhere. But when you get in to UW, you can't get a better deal. I wish I grew up in Alaska 😀

I'm an Alaska resident...have my UW interview on Wednesday. But the statement that UW accepts all in-staters is very false. I am considered "in-state" but so are the 80 other applicants from Alaska, only 10 of whom will actually get a seat in the class!

 

[BaylorLion]

I'm an Alaska resident...have my UW interview on Wednesday. But the statement that UW accepts all in-staters is very false. I am considered "in-state" but so are the 80 other applicants from Alaska, only 10 of whom will actually get a seat in the class!

I think that they meant that all of the people UW accepts are "in-state" (WWAMI).

 

[davidus]

I'm an Alaska resident...have my UW interview on Wednesday. But the statement that UW accepts all in-staters is very false. I am considered "in-state" but so are the 80 other applicants from Alaska, only 10 of whom will actually get a seat in the class!

There are only 80 applicants from Alaska to UW??? Are there only 80 pre-meds in Alaska total?

 

[Neuronix]

I certainly don't have such a fabulous choice to make at this point.

When you do, of if anyone does, feel free to PM me.

 

[VienneseWaltz]

I think Viennese has a great point about choosing based on classmates... The one annoying part of judging this based on the revisit weekends, however, is that half of the people revisiting that you befriend will likely matriculate elsewhere. What if that's the half that you happen to really like?

I see your concern, but several of my closest friends I first met at revisit. (And three people I particularly disliked wound up not attending. 😀 ) I wouldn't worry about it too much. The chances that everyone you like will go somewhere else are small, and the people who come off the WL or simply couldn't make the revisit are going to fit in with the people you did meet. Adcoms are a mystery to me, but for the most part I think they know what they're doing.

 

[i61164]

Why not make the comparison based on where you are more likely to get shot/stabbed to death? Wait a minute, once again it's too close to call. Nevermind.

😉

 

[twicetenturns]

Sorry perhaps I phrased that incorrectly. Should read, "near complete commitment to taking in-staters vs. out-of-staters." The only people I know of who went to UW from out of state were MSTP folks. Almost all of the MD track students are in-state (WWAMI), correct?