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Discussion in 'Medical Students - MD' started by Cirujana4Justicia, Aug 21, 2015.
There is so little context to this crazy screed. What is the backstory? What is/was your application like (grades, evals, step scores, etc)? Where did you apply and interview?
What negative experiences? And who is "Dr. No"? What office does this person hold? Who did you have to advocate on your behalf??
Professors and physicians who wrote you LOR along your campaign trail should've had your back, OP.
Something seems awry.
Should've gone to a lawyer not the governor...
Who uses the term neurological surgeon?
Something seems very very off with this
I find this story hard to believe
Hmmmm, should be a SDN rule that who ever replies first to a bizarre post, must copy and past it in its entirety, so latecomers will be able to read it after the OP comes back and deletes it.
Here u go:
Ive never heard of that term before actually
Really? Thank you so much, but my legal team believes my case could become a landmark one in Fed. court. Attached are other cases exemplifying the reprehensible racism occurring at these "institutions of higher learning". God bless you as well, you will make one heck of a compassionate, empathetic doctor.
"It has become painfully obvious to me and others that my current situation is evident of a blatant misuse and abuse of power by persons who were in authority at the time of my professional education. It is a travesty of justice for someone to actively work to derail and outright decimate the career of a student simply because they have the power to do so. There has also been a significant interference with my prospective economic advantage in relation to the harm done to my potential surgical career earnings due to lost years of training and employment. I simply fail to comprehend how and why I am receiving such disgraceful treatment as a graduate of a U.S. medical school. It is now 2015, and because of lost income and lost opportunity, I have been unable to appropriately provide for myself and pay off the hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loan debt. I would have been able to do so had I been allowed to successfully complete a residency and fellowship, culminating in a career as a fully trained surgeon. I do not believe I am any less important or less capable than my class of cohorts that have proven themselves, completed residencies, and progressed in successful careers in medicine. I should have been provided the opportunity long ago to do the same. However, I continue to receive inappropriately harsh and unethical treatment which many have perceived to be blatantly racist, bigoted, and discriminatory. Poverty, instability and discrimination are the shaky foundations of too many lives. They are also leading risk factors for depression. Thus began my very intimate association with mental illness. My diagnoses: Severe major depression with suicide attempt of high lethality and PTSD."
I am really sorry to hear all this.
Most people would drool for an MD from any US school but I understand how you feel wrongfully robbed of your dreams to become a surgeon. However, it sounds like you have a legitimate case and this battle is certainly not over yet. You have your legal team, and your degree, so it is not the end of the world!
Although you've completed this residency through hell, you have also survived to tell the tale and warn your fellow man. Surely this must count for something. Could this be a sign of better things to come? I see you have also neglected your health while dealing with this hardship, but you need to keep yourself in check. We don't want to lose you, and neither do you. Besides the legal stuff, what can be done? What can you do to make things better? What would help?
Your story is an eye-opener for premeds at SDN and an example of one MDs struggle with his academic institution and mentors, but it would be best if you withhold the personal information (for obvious reasons).
In any case, I hope that things will look up for you.
Chin up MD. You will get through this.
As a scientist I understand that some of you want more info. However, the post was meant to shed light on a unfortunate instance, not satisfy your need for a stronger defense. First of all, unless you are a person of color or of low socioeconomic standing I highly doubt you could possibly know what it feels like to be discriminate against in that manner. Think about the last time you thought about intentionally doing someone wrong, doesn't matter who, they may not have even done anything that bad. People get murdered for cutting people off on the highway, so if a person of high rank authority want to keep you from doing something. Its is possible and probable. No it may not all been about the OP's color, but that may have been where it started. Yeah its 2015 but so what! Time is arbitrary and biased based on experience. Modern political correctness and values mean nothing to people who abuse power or have personal reservations about other races in the medical field. Yeah it seems really hard to believe, but so does the thought of 50 years ago not being able to eat at a "white" diner. I have had a scholarship rescinded because I did not fit the appropriate look for the face of the new scholarship program at my school. (I am fair skinned mixed kid and the NAACP needed someone more representative. So they sneakily gave me a different award, while someone different got the scholarship i was originally chosen for.) This sucks. But ya know what all anyone can do is hope that it doesnt happen to them. Ive had white friends not get into a college because they were too "hick" for the schools look. all things are not based on merit alone. If that were the case there would be no reason for interviews. Yes it is harder for minority kids to overcome certain invisible boundaries, but there are alot of schools that arent like that. If you visit a campus and get the feeling that you dont fit in with their population I would advise going to another school if you have the option, that is the morale of the story, it doesnt really matter who you are or what color you are or how much your family has.
First of all, my character has absolutely nothing to do with your argument. Your argument is that you are being held back because you are a person of color. Burnetts law belongs in preallo, not in this section. A quick look at the website for buffalo's surgical program reveals many "people of color". Also, buffalo runs a prematriculation program specifically for minorities who did not receive acceptance to medical school where they attend classes for a year before being granted acceptance to one of a number of schools that are affiliated with the program including buffalo.
I read your attached documents and they leads me to wonder if you read them at all as opposed to simply copy pasting whatever you found from a Google search of "suny doctor discrimination". The case involving dr. Zhao is about a post doctoral research fellow at suny downstate, not suny buffalo. It looks to me that dr. Zhao could not produce data of sufficient quality from experiments including western blot and elisa. I see no relevance of that case to yours as it is a completely different situation in a completely different field involving completely different people at a completely different institution.
The case about the surgical resident, dr. Barsoumian, shows that he was placed on probation for continued unprofessional behavior due to concerns about professionalism, clinical ability and honesty. He had two unsatisfactory rotations and faculty expressed reservations with allowing him to return. There was also a pending sexual harassment case against him at a different hospital system. This is a physician who "transferred" from rochester's medical school to st. Georges in the Caribbean. There was no mention of race in that decision. So I remain unconvinced by your statement of "reprehensible racism at institutions of higher learning". Rather, you managed to obtain a prelim surgery spot only and are trying to force the residency program to accept you for further training through legal means with a discrimination suit rather than relying on your own knowledge and abilities as a physician.
We see these kind of stories every once in a while here and invariably there are unflattering details that are left out which completely change the story.
I wish I could like this post twice.
I liked your post about liking his post. I figure that's kind of like liking it twice.
If your legal team was even halfway decent, they wouldn't have let you come here posting this dumb stuff on the internets.
Also legal "team". Anyone else just picturing Saul Goodman?
Most people don't say neurological surgeon
Most say neurosurgeon
Depending on where you are from, that may not be the case
If you are at risk of suicide or have depression, I recommend against reading SDN. Many of the members here don't care if you are at risk of harming yourself or others and will bash you just the same.
Actually I would posit that the majority if not all of the regular posters here do truly care. The problem is that most of us have seen the same thing over and over again so we get pretty good at picking out the bull****. Coddling a bull*****er only leads to more bull****, so we point it out.
Yeah I find that most of the It's cause I'm (Black/white/brown/yellow) stuff boils down to the person just being an dingus in actuality
...did a resident accidentally leave their SDN login information laying around the psych ward?
"I lost my residence, degrees and belongings. I was out on the street with nowhere to go or anyone to turn toI felt robbed again."
You lost your degrees? Can someone help a naive premed out and tell me under what conditions one's undergrad and medical degree can be repossessed?
Don't go all planet Mustafar on an individual. Try not to take these matters so personally. Remember, use the Force. If not, haloperidol might prove useful; apparently more than one of us has flown over the cuckoo's nest. A good Jedi has dropped a lightsaber and simply needs help in wielding it again, that's all. An imbalance I've detected in the Force allows me to believe that you could have been put up to make these responses via an association with SUNY UB. I'll page Yoda for a consult. Until then, do not succumb to the dark side and keep close to the light. May the Force be with you.
Love and Friendship in Arms,
Ben" Obi-Wan" Kenobi
P.S. Koto ya!
P.P.S. Thank you MSclerosis.
I don't know what I make of this post, I'm usually the cavalry on this subject.
I can say that 99% of what OP said is totally feasible, the part where someone hates a trainee, discrimination, and it just goes down the hill as they've said. Career, finances, lodging, family, mental and physical health, suicidality, all down the toilet.
OP - I can't say much to your situation, like "buck up" "it'll get better." It could get better. If nothing else, I hope things do get better for you. Small comfort to know some anonymous internet doc's heartstrings tugging for you.
What were your step scores, etc? Did you have any disciplinary actions against you? After completing your surgical intern year, you should have had a full medical license. Why didn't you apply for a less competitive field at that point? Or at least use your license for some gainful employment? There's just so much that's wrong with this story. I highly doubt it discrimination based on the color of your skin, far more likely that you'd done some things in med school that really rubbed some people the wrong way and/or had poor performance. If faculty from your school feels that you would be a detriment to their reputation if you entered a certain field, it is their right to try and prevent you from entering their field.
So, fill in the blanks- did you fail any courses, perform poorly on any rotations, what were your Step scores, did you have any disciplinary actions taken against you, etc?
Feel free to click the ignore button at any time.......
Feel free to be honest in future postings if you really want some help. Those other cases you cite have no bearing on any other cases and do not show an institutional racial bias. For that matter the content of your post doesn't even make sense. Why would SUNY-Buffalo be obligated to provide you any residency program? I didn't expect my school to put me in a spot at the same place. That's the whole point of the application. Applying for neurosurgery and ending up in a prelim spot? That's not uncommon. Did you keep trying for neurosurgery only? What about your Step scores? What about your prelim evaluations? Did you try any other fields? It sure sounds like you feel entitled to certain things.
I am not familiar with any CT Attending with this much time on their hands...The ones I know are out there busting their rumps in the OR, healing with cold, hard steel, making a difference in the lives of others. So who really is the troll?
God's blessings to you and yours......The ignore button is in your destiny
Haha what is going on here. If someone responds they must be fake because there's no way they have time to respond? Who did you expect to respond then?
People are asking specific questions of you to clarify what happened.
Filling in the blanks should be relatively trivial for you then. Don't name names, but give us more to go on. Or anyone who could benefit from your experiences will be missing out.
I also recommend you don't accuse users, let alone users with a long posting history, to be shills for whoever did you wrong. Doesn't exactly lend credibility.
OP, it also doesn't exactly lend credibility to begin your story by implying that a) you feel entitled to a neurosurgery residency at a specific program, and b) that you believe that the program has wronged you by withholding said residency. You didn't even try to make the claim that you are qualified. You just said "I wanted it and they didn't give it to me." (One would expect an argument for discrimination to begin with "here is why I am qualified. Here are my stats. Here are the program's average stats. As you an see, I belong in this program." Your decision to not make this case leads one to believe that your numbers do not support such an argument).
Frankly, when you establish this victim mentality early on in your argument, it becomes impossible for the reader to not assume that the rest of your story is colored by the same mindset. I have to wonder if this program is actually actively trying to derail you from finding another residency, or if you are just interpreting reasonable steps by your program as abuse because this is the lens through which you view the world, and you believe that everyone who doesn't hand you what you want is being abusive.
Once saw an african american lady try to use an expired coupon and when the restaurant refused she began shouting that they are racist and that nobody in line should eat in this racist place. Seems a jump to a racist accusation is coming up wayyy too frequently these days.
In discrimination cases against institutions in the first meeting your lawyer should tell you "watch what you post on social media". Honestly that's solid advice in any case, but if you are seriously thinking this will go to federal court, you should not be posting details here.
Look, this is me shutting the f up. It's not hard.
This guy doesn't have stats for his residency of choice, thinks it's racist they wont let him in.
More likely one giant troll with no basis in reality.
AANS is the American Association of Neurological Surgeons (like 10K members) and ABNS is the American Board of Neurological Surgery. AAMC even uses the term neurological surgeon on their careers in medicine webpage.
I cant fathom why using that terminology would be a red flag even though neurosurgeon is more common.
Seriously. The guy's avatar is Obi-Wan Kenobi from the prequels. A pretty low-effort troll at that.
This isn't the place for your personal legal proceedings.
There will always people that blame others for their misfortunes. Whether or not this person is making up this story doesn't matter. Why he/she is posting on here may be because the story is completely made up or maybe it is true but everyone else they have told hasn't given the answer they are looking for. How many times have you talked to other people about a situation and you stick to the responses that are positive for some sort of hope in the situation. I could be completely wrong, but again why post here?