Biden and Dem’s Put Kibosh on MD FIRE

[Ferrismonk]

you do not incorporate the vast wealth that is present in this small group in your calculations. the top 1% in income have 42% of the wealth and produce 20% of the income in the US.



what I find is most fascinating is the fact that the average American so far has bought in to this thought that we should not tax the rich. this country has such a huge population that makes very little money now and a tiny population that makes tons. we are changing from a society with a predominance of middle class to one of a small super rich class and almost everyone else. when the poor finally realize this....

This is true, but the problem IS the government. You don't make a middle class by taxing the hell out of the 1% and giving it to the bottom 50%. You create a strong middle class by breaking up monopolies, ensuring fair/safe work practices (not "fair" wages), and getting out of the way of everything else. Taxing those who create and then supporting pet projects just creates an oligarchy, which is basically what we have now.

The reason we are losing our middle class is not because some people are rich, it's because we allow our products to be made in poor working conditions for super cheap wages in China and Mexico. If we mandated our major imports to be manufactured according to the same standards we apply to our own workers, there would be a robust middle class here.

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[Nodolor]

This is true, but the problem IS the government. You don't make a middle class by taxing the hell out of the 1% and giving it to the bottom 50%. You create a strong middle class by breaking up monopolies, ensuring fair/safe work practices (not "fair" wages), and getting out of the way of everything else. Taxing those who create and then supporting pet projects just creates an oligarchy, which is basically what we have now.

The reason we are losing our middle class is not because some people are rich, it's because we allow our products to be made in poor working conditions for super cheap wages in China and Mexico. If we mandated our major imports to be manufactured according to the same standards we apply to our own workers, there would be a robust middle class here.

You know Republicans are against these thing right?

 

[SSdoc33]

This is true, but the problem IS the government. You don't make a middle class by taxing the hell out of the 1% and giving it to the bottom 50%. You create a strong middle class by breaking up monopolies, ensuring fair/safe work practices (not "fair" wages), and getting out of the way of everything else. Taxing those who create and then supporting pet projects just creates an oligarchy, which is basically what we have now.

The reason we are losing our middle class is not because some people are rich, it's because we allow our products to be made in poor working conditions for super cheap wages in China and Mexico. If we mandated our major imports to be manufactured according to the same standards we apply to our own workers, there would be a robust middle class here.

you do realize that much of the above is liberal ideology

 

[Ferrismonk]

You know Republicans are against these thing right?

you do realize that much of the above is liberal ideology

Never said I was a republican.

I have no problem with creating conditions where people have an equal opportunity. I DO have a problem with the government picking winners and losers and artificially supporting those who would otherwise fail without government support.

 

[nvrsumr]

you do not incorporate the vast wealth that is present in this small group in your calculations. the top 1% in income have 42% of the wealth and produce 20% of the income in the US.



what I find is most fascinating is the fact that the average American so far has bought in to this thought that we should not tax the rich. this country has such a huge population that makes very little money now and a tiny population that makes tons. we are changing from a society with a predominance of middle class to one of a small super rich class and almost everyone else. when the poor finally realize this....

You left out a number. The top one percent pays ___% of total taxes with their 20% of total income? What is their "fair share"?

 

[Nodolor]

Never said I was a republican.

I have no problem with creating conditions where people have an equal opportunity. I DO have a problem with the government picking winners and losers and artificially supporting those who would otherwise fail without government support.

My bad I assumed with your below comment my might be one

" As a very conservative and religious gun-owning homeschooling high-income white male"

 

[cowboydoc]

you do not incorporate the vast wealth that is present in this small group in your calculations. the top 1% in income have 42% of the wealth and produce 20% of the income in the US.



what I find is most fascinating is the fact that the average American so far has bought in to this thought that we should not tax the rich. this country has such a huge population that makes very little money now and a tiny population that makes tons. we are changing from a society with a predominance of middle class to one of a small super rich class and almost everyone else. when the poor finally realize this....

As is, highly progressive tax rates are just a threat to make the wealthy get more creative or pay off people to keep their tax burden low. I can buy into a "fair" tax or even something relatively progressive, but without overhaul of the obfuscation and corruption in our system, these maneuvers are doing more to divide the population and serve politicians than create a reasonable tax structure.

I'd like to think we could agree that individual taxes should be able to be completed on a postcard in an afternoon. We'd probably disagree about rates, but this would be a much more "fair" and less corruptible system.

 

[Ferrismonk]

My bad I assumed with your below comment my might be one

" As a very conservative and religious gun-owning homeschooling high-income white male"

Modern republicans aren't very conservative either unfortunately. It's no longer the party of Jefferson, Lincoln, or even Reagan.

 

[Nodolor]

Modern republicans aren't very conservative either unfortunately. It's no longer the party of Jefferson, Lincoln, or even Reagan.

not sure what country you live in

 

[hyperalgesia]

America is the only country I know that obsesses over inequality. What % of Americans own what % of the wealth, etc. It's an unhealthy, cultural obsession that is fed by the media apparatus.

 

[Nodolor]

K Street counting on Senate to pare back Democrats’ tax plan

Lobbyists for business interests are confident they can fight off parts of House tax proposal they find most threatening.

www.politico.com

 

[drusso]

K Street counting on Senate to pare back Democrats’ tax plan

Lobbyists for business interests are confident they can fight off parts of House tax proposal they find most threatening.

www.politico.com

Now, more than ever, we need MD/DO's opening their wallets to support groups who are organizing to oppose the D's tax agenda. Vote with your voice and your pocketbook.

 

[Nodolor]

Now, more than ever, we need MD/DO's opening their wallets to support groups who are organizing to oppose the D's tax agenda. Vote with your voice and your pocketbook.

think donations or memberships SIS or ASIPP is much better use of our resources

 

[drusso]

think donations or memberships SIS or ASIPP is much better use of our resources

Maybe ASIPP because they have a PAC. But, I'm on the SIS health policy committee and they are prohibited from making political contributions due their non-profit status.

 

[deleted875186]

I’m pretty liberal ….

honestly, I hate this.

if they forgave some of my enormous loans, if they fixed some of the health care bulls**t I deal with like prior auths, stopped cutting reimbursements for services every year ….. then mine increase my taxes.

 

[SSdoc33]

America is the only country I know that obsesses over inequality. What % of Americans own what % of the wealth, etc. It's an unhealthy, cultural obsession that is fed by the media apparatus.

French Revolution - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

October Revolution - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

but, you know, russia and france arent very well known countries

 

[drusso]

French Revolution - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

October Revolution - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

but, you know, russia and france arent very well known countries

 

[SSdoc33]

View attachment 343548

i know you want to quote your hero at any chance possible, but this is poorly timed. im not advocating for socialism nor communism.

 

[drusso]

i know you want to quote your hero at any chance possible, but this is poorly timed. im not advocating for socialism nor communism.

Just higher taxes?

 

[SSdoc33]

Just higher taxes?

jeff bezos and bill gates can take the hit.

do i want MY taxes higher? no.

 

[deleted131481]

Is 37% to 39.6% marginal tax rate on income above 400k the difference between capitalism and socialism?

 

[Nodolor]

You Republicans should be happy you are not living in the "Good 'ole Days"

 

[DOctorJay]

jeff bezos and bill gates can take the hit.

do i want MY taxes higher? no.

With what mechanism do you suggest? How do you go after their “income”?

 

[SSdoc33]

With what mechanism do you suggest? How do you go after their “income”?

surtax on income > 1 mil and increased taxes on capital gains. this would be palatable if you leave the corporate rate where it is

also, close the hedge fund loophole

 

[drusso]

surtax on income > 1 mil and increased taxes on capital gains. this would be palatable if you leave the corporate rate where it is

also, close the hedge fund loophole

**** people who take risks with their hard-earned capital to build a better future. ****'em...parasites.

 

[SSdoc33]

**** people who take risks with their hard-earned capital to build a better future. ****'em...parasites.

you have your heros.... i have mine

“There is nobody in this country who got rich on their own. Nobody. You built a factory out there - good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory... Now look. You built a factory and it turned into something terrific or a great idea - God bless! Keep a hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.”​

― Elizabeth Warren

 

[SSdoc33]

she's inst really my hero, but i thought it fit the post well

 

[cowboydoc]

you have your heros.... i have mine

“There is nobody in this country who got rich on their own. Nobody. You built a factory out there - good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory... Now look. You built a factory and it turned into something terrific or a great idea - God bless! Keep a hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.”​

― Elizabeth Warren

That sounds way better than, "Give most of it to us in government, and we'll put it to better use than you know how to and "help" the next kids who comes along."

 

[drusso]

you have your heros.... i have mine

“There is nobody in this country who got rich on their own. Nobody. You built a factory out there - good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory... Now look. You built a factory and it turned into something terrific or a great idea - God bless! Keep a hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.”​

― Elizabeth Warren

Speaking of Heros...

 

[clubdeac]

You Republicans should be happy you are not living in the "Good 'ole Days"

View attachment 343564

Super misleading table nodolor. Stop being ridiculous omg

 

[clubdeac]

This is how taxes break down currently in the US. 1/2 of US citizens don’t pay any taxes

 

[tmvguy03]

I’m just saying, quoting Elizabeth Warren like that in any way other than ironically is kind of cringey. It’s like something my aunt from CA would post on FB

 

[SSdoc33]

I’m just saying, quoting Elizabeth Warren like that in any way other than ironically is kind of cringey. It’s like something my aunt from CA would post on FB

Is your aunt a middle aged overweight single librarian? Seems like those types love her.

And it wasnt meant to be ironic

 

[Nodolor]

Super misleading table nodolor. Stop being ridiculous omg

This is a factual table..unlike a lot of the garbage you post.....funny I call out your statements with facts...then crickets....

 

[Nodolor]

Super misleading table nodolor. Stop being ridiculous omg

This is a factual table..unlike a lot of the garbage you post

 

[DOctorJay]

surtax on income > 1 mil and increased taxes on capital gains. this would be palatable if you leave the corporate rate where it is

also, close the hedge fund loophole

Bezos reportedly pays himself an $80,000 salary and has paid tax on that.

If he doesn’t sell any assets he has no other “income” to tax.

 

[hyperalgesia]

Bezos reportedly pays himself an $80,000 salary and has paid tax on that.

If he doesn’t sell any assets he has no other “income” to tax.

Bezos is the strawman of the moment. Why are you complicating things?

 

[SSdoc33]

Bezos is the strawman of the moment. Why are you complicating things?

because his point is that under the current system, even a surtax on higher income would be evaded by bezos. this was the article that he linked to earlier.

what bernia and lizzie and AOC believe is that the uber-rich will always find a way to postpone or sneak around paying taxes on their INCOME. this is why they believe the only way to level the playing field is a wealth tax. i personally think this is a step too far, but we have to close the loopholes and reform the system: fewer write-offs, less deductions, etc. also, there shouldnt be a separate tax for capital gains. the low to middle class really don't benefit from lower capital gains taxes.

 

[clubdeac]

This is a factual table..unlike a lot of the garbage you post

Dude you have to be the most clueless, misguided and unpleasant individual on here. Read this article about historical tax rates before you go posting tables you don’t understand

Taxes on the Rich Were Not That Much Higher in the 1950s

Despite high marginal income tax rates, the top 1% of taxpayers in the 1950s only paid about 42% of their income in taxes. See more about taxes on the rich.

taxfoundation.org

 

[hyperalgesia]

because his point is that under the current system, even a surtax on higher income would be evaded by bezos. this was the article that he linked to earlier.

what bernia and lizzie and AOC believe is that the uber-rich will always find a way to postpone or sneak around paying taxes on their INCOME. this is why they believe the only way to level the playing field is a wealth tax. i personally think this is a step too far, but we have to close the loopholes and reform the system: fewer write-offs, less deductions, etc. also, there shouldnt be a separate tax for capital gains. the low to middle class really don't benefit from lower capital gains taxes.

Aren't these rich people just reinvesting their profits into their businesses and, thus deducting everything?

Since it's on the news every day, it doesn't seem like they are "evading" or "sneaking" around anything.

Do you think we should not allow business deductions over a certain amount?

 

[lobelsteve]

Fix taxation in 100 words or less.

Shut down IRS.
No deductions for anything.
Pay 10% of income.
Pay 15% on reinvestment.
The above starts at $100,000.
Under that, no taxes.

 

[hyperalgesia]

Fix taxation in 100 words or less.

Shut down IRS.
No deductions for anything.
Pay 10% of income.
Pay 15% on reinvestment.
The above starts at $100,000.
Under that, no taxes.

The only issue with zero taxes below 100k is these folks have no skin in the game. This would be the vast majority of voters and would just keep demanding more public services and raise taxes on other people. It's the opposite of "broadening the tax base".

I agree with other aspects of your plan and agree it should be super simple, 5 lines or less. Every line is another opportunity for political manipulation.

 

[deleted875186]

Fix taxation in 100 words or less.

Shut down IRS.
No deductions for anything.
Pay 10% of income.
Pay 15% on reinvestment.
The above starts at $100,000.
Under that, no taxes.

5 % or something small for income under 100,000.

make Medicare for all, increase tax for it from 1.5% to whatever it needs to be, get rid of social security entirely.

 

[DOctorJay]

Bezos is the strawman of the moment. Why are you complicating things?

SSdoc keeps referring to billionaires’ “income”. They manipulate this number and that’s why they don’t pay taxes.

 

[deleted131481]

Dude you have to be the most clueless, misguided and unpleasant individual on here. Read this article about historical tax rates before you go posting tables you don’t understand

Taxes on the Rich Were Not That Much Higher in the 1950s

Despite high marginal income tax rates, the top 1% of taxpayers in the 1950s only paid about 42% of their income in taxes. See more about taxes on the rich.

taxfoundation.org

Its not 90%, but 42% vs 36% today is still substantially higher than the 2.6% marginal difference Biden is proposing leading to cries of socialism.

The top 1% do make up a substantially higher proportion of total income than they did in the the 1950s. Basically their income has gone up 2x relative to the rest while their effective tax rate has dropped.

A Guide to Statistics on Historical Trends in Income Inequality | Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

The years from the end of World War II into the 1970s were ones of substantial economic growth and broadly shared prosperity. Beginning in the 1970s, economic growth slowed and the income gap widened.

www.cbpp.org

 

[wendalltwolf]

Taxes will never get simplified as long as Intuit and H&R Block get to spend millions for lobbying.

Filing Taxes Could Be Free and Simple. But H&R Block and Intuit Are Still Lobbying Against It.

 

[clubdeac]

Its not 90%, but 42% vs 36% today is still substantially higher than the 2.6% marginal difference Biden is proposing leading to cries of socialism.

The top 1% do make up a substantially higher proportion of total income than they did in the the 1950s. Basically their income has gone up 2x relative to the rest while their effective tax rate has dropped.

A Guide to Statistics on Historical Trends in Income Inequality | Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

The years from the end of World War II into the 1970s were ones of substantial economic growth and broadly shared prosperity. Beginning in the 1970s, economic growth slowed and the income gap widened.

www.cbpp.org

There are two separate 3% additional “fees” on those making over $400k buried in the plan so they are actually proposing an increase from 37% to ~46% for most of us on this board

 

[deleted131481]

There are two separate 3% additional “fees” on those making over $400k buried in the plan so they are actually proposing an increase from 37% to ~46% for most of us on this board

Can you provide a source for the 6% in "fees" for those making over 400k? I see a proposed 3% surcharge on those making over $5 million.

 

[pmrmd]

Can you provide a source for the 6% in "fees" for those making over 400k? I see a proposed 3% surcharge on those making over $5 million.

Straight up income tax, capital gains, and business taxes. It will be more than 6%. 400k annually isn’t the “billionaire” class, but you have to start class warfare somewhere I guess.

The tax payments are already lopsided with the bottom 50% paying 3% of all income tax. The top 10% pays 71% of all income tax. We all live here and we all benefit from federal government programs and we all need to pay a fair share.

 

[callmeanesthesia]

Why does capital gains need such favorable treatment? You’re telling me that an investor’s $100,000 is really doing more more our country than $100,000 of our clinical labor seeing patients to deserve such favorable tax treatment? And why, if they take a loss on their investment do they get to deduct that but when I have to take a 30% pay cut because of COVID, I don’t get to deduct that?
Nothing about the current system makes any sense other than viewed from the standpoint of the Golden Rule - “He who has the gold makes the rules.”
Doctors are nothing more than a blip on the radar of either party. No matter where you throw your vote or your piddly campaign contribution, to paraphrase drusso, they won’t love you back.