Biden Out of Race

[rowsdower88]

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It would appear they have at least some legally protected right to privacy even while on the clock.

I phrased that wrong. I should have asked "what right to privacy SHOULD ICE agents enjoy". They have some, the question is should masking and duct taping badges be one of them.

It’s not a doxxing excuse. To suggest they are wearing masks because they are somehow ashamed (or should be) is ridiculous partisan nonsense. Anything that broaches the all cops are bad fallacy should be called out immediately.

Naw man, it is an excuse and its being normalized. Or at least the argument it's to prevent doxxing is just as strong as it is an intimidation tactic. We expect ICE and cops to endure some level of harassment, it comes with the job. You're ignoring that.

We used to have this thing called the "white pages", wild right?

The problem with the rest of your argument is that doxxing is a tactic that is used by the left, and ICE has faced significant harassment in performing their duties. Let’s face it, in most other settings these people would be getting arrested for obstruction.

Doxxing is a tactic used across the aisle.

Harassment comes with the job. You aren't describing how doxxing is materially different from other forms of harassment that come with the job.

If it occurs off duty, cops/ICE should have as much recourse as the average citizen.

You've abandoned your "violence" argument, probably a good idea.

Do you think the second order effects of widespread masking/identity hiding among cops are worth continuing the practice?

https://www.cato.org/blog/evaluating-ices-claim-it-masks-agents-fear-targeted-violence

I'm as skeptical as this libertarian.

 

[DocMcCoy]

I phrased that wrong. I should have asked "what right to privacy SHOULD ICE agents enjoy". They have some, the question is should masking and duct taping badges be one of them.

Are you asking me personally? I think there are easily conceivable scenarios that may necessitate concealing their identity.

Naw man, it is an excuse and its being normalized. Or at least the argument it's to prevent doxxing is just as strong as it is an intimidation tactic. We expect ICE and cops to endure some level of harassment, it comes with the job. You're ignoring that.

We used to have this thing called the "white pages", wild right?

I’m sorry the only thing I won’t normalize is violence toward law enforcement while legally performing their duties. Violence toward ICE is up over 500%. That isnt a level of “harassment” we should expect to come with the job.

One could have an unlisted number back in the days of white pages.

Doxxing is a tactic used across the aisle.

Harassment comes with the job. You aren't describing how doxxing is materially different from other forms of harassment that come with the job.

If it occurs off duty, cops/ICE should have as much recourse as the average citizen.

You've abandoned your "violence" argument, probably a good idea.

Do you think the second order effects of widespread masking/identity hiding among cops are worth continuing the practice?

You’ve already defined how doxxing is different. It doesn’t put only the agent at risk. It exposes them and their families to a much broader audience that might want to take action against them.

Again, violence toward ICE is up over 500%. Plenty of videos online support this narrative.

You are going to have to be more clear on the second order effects. The only thing you presented was perhaps an increased risk of impersonating federal agents though the incidence/prevalence wasn’t defined or compared so I’m not sure how big of an issue that is.

Why do you think they are wearing masks? Do you share the belief with the OP that they are wearing masks because they are ashamed?

 

[rowsdower88]

I’m sorry the only thing I won’t normalize is violence toward law enforcement while legally performing their duties. Violence toward ICE is up over 500%. That isnt a level of “harassment” we should expect to come with the job.

Present this source. Is this 5 -> 25 or 500 -> 2500?

Is it WHILE they're doing their jobs or off duty (only one of these is relevant to doxxing)?

Are you asking me personally? I think there are easily conceivable scenarios that may necessitate concealing their identity.

Yes, and this is a very weaselly answer. Sure, I agree, ICE agents can mask up when they're going into a burning building. But we're not talking about edge case scenarios, we're talking about widespread masking and badge hiding.

You’ve already defined how doxxing is different. It doesn’t put only the agent at risk. It exposes them and their families to a much broader audience that might want to take action against them.

Yep, and I also said I didn't think that that threat was sufficient to justify widespread masking. Do you?

Again, violence toward ICE is up over 500%. Plenty of videos online support this narrative.

Violence... during the performance of their duties and the offending parties are apprehended and punished? Sure. That is the expectation associated with the job. You aren't justifying the masks yet.

You are going to have to be more clear on the second order effects. The only thing you presented was perhaps an increased risk of impersonating federal agents though the incidence/prevalence wasn’t defined or compared so I’m not sure how big of an issue that is.

Increased impersonations and decreased trust in law enforcement are probably the two things I would point to. The latter is harder, of course, to quantify. The impersonations have been explicit and the masking by the offenders has been intentional.

Why do you think they are wearing masks? Do you share the belief with the OP that they are wearing masks because they are ashamed?

No, I think they like what they're doing. That's why they took the job and continue doing it. The problem is, as a populace we shouldn't like them masking themselves. We should stop that and I am 80% sure that if it was a right wing protest movement (tea party?) and Feds were hiding their identities we would be seeing every pseudo-libertarian around up in arms.

They are doing it because they don't want to be identified, plain and simple. Whether that is to reduce doxxing, to intimidate, to avoid being seen on the news, etc... What they're doing (quite often) is unpopular, especially in liberal states.

 

[DocMcCoy]

Present this source. Is this 5 -> 25 or 500 -> 2500?

Is it WHILE they're doing their jobs or off duty (only one of these is relevant to doxxing)?

Ah. The Rachel Maddow defense. 5 to 25 alone would be a pretty huge increase, especially when we are taking about relatively rare events, or what used to be relatively rare events. But let’s use the specific numbers. We went from a reported 10 incidents to 79 from Jan-jun looking at this year compare to last year. One a day to one every other day is a pretty significant increase.

But I know, I know. You aren’t impressed.

On alleged spike of assaults against agents, ICE releases illuminating new data

Trump administration officials have defended ICE agents in masks by pointing to the alleged assaults they’ve faced. It might be time for new talking points.

www.msnbc.com

Yes, and this is a very weaselly answer. Sure, I agree, ICE agents can mask up when they're going into a burning building. But we're not talking about edge case scenarios, we're talking about widespread masking and badge hiding.

But it isn’t only that. Undercover operations, staged operations where they may be the arresting officer on multiple cases prior to trial. There is precedent for protecting identity out of safety. You don’t think this situation fits. Many do.

Yep, and I also said I didn't think that that threat was sufficient to justify widespread masking. Do you?

I certainly think a terrible argument is since no agents or family members have yet to be assaulted or murdered as a result of doxxing it therefore isn’t a sufficient threat.

ncreased impersonations and decreased trust in law enforcement are probably the two things I would point to. The latter is harder, of course, to quantify. The impersonations have been explicit and the masking by the offenders has been intentional.

Sounds pretty weak to be honest. It’s marginally better than “because it makes them look scary.”

No, I think they like what they're doing. That's why they took the job and continue doing it. The problem is, as a populace we shouldn't like them masking themselves. We should stop that and I am 80% sure that if it was a right wing protest movement (tea party?) and Feds were hiding their identities we would be seeing every pseudo-libertarian around up in arms.

They are doing it because they don't want to be identified, plain and simple. Whether that is to reduce doxxing, to intimidate, to avoid being seen on the news, etc...

If they weren’t being assaulted, harassed, and doxxed there would certainly be less of an argument justifying concealing identity. But, here we are.

 

[anonperson]

A “group I don’t like”?? Oh! You mean people here ILLEGALLY, breaking FEDERAL law?? “Like” has nothing to do with it. I’m sure the drug dealer up the street, or the town murderer is a helluva nice guy, too. We ignore those laws, or just laws that cchoukal and his favored political party don’t approve of?? Maybe ICE can just politely request that these folks show up, somewhere?

You’re on a roll…. Please continue wrestling, errr, responding…

I agree with you 100% but there is a significant number of people (liberal/progressives) who want a completely open border and view illegal immigration as not a real crime.

So now any enforcement against people who are here illegally is viewed as unfair and unjust.

It's Bizarre that there is a push for open borders and increased public services. Those two ideas cannot coexist. You can have one or the other.

 

[rowsdower88]

Ah. The Rachel Maddow defense. 5 to 25 alone would be a pretty huge increase, especially when we are taking about relatively rare events, or what used to be relatively rare events. But let’s use the specific numbers. We went from a reported 10 incidents to 79 from Jan-jun looking at this year compare to last year. One a day to one every other day is a pretty significant increase.

But I know, I know. You aren’t impressed.

Yup. Would be interesting to see how this correlates with the increased activity we're seeing ICE do as well. If they're going from 50 operations a year with X risk, to 100 operations a year with Y increased risk, what should the expected increase in the absolute number of violent encounters be?

But it isn’t only that. Undercover operations, staged operations where they may be the arresting officer on multiple cases prior to trial. There is precedent for protecting identity out of safety. You don’t think this situation fits. Many do.

Sure. My burning building example wasn't meant to be exhaustive. But they're masking while doing fairly routine activities IMO.

I certainly think a terrible argument is since no agents or family members have yet to be assaulted or murdered as a result of doxxing it therefore isn’t a sufficient threat.

It's a bad argument to use to justify the practice if you aren't coming up with anything!

We can justify any number of things if they're imaginary and/or rare events. It's why we have a massive Homeland Security office now. It's why we have a strong anti-vax movement. (To pick on my own side) It's citing the number of police shootings of unarmed black men to justify police reform.

If they weren’t being assaulted, harassed, and doxxed there would certainly be less of an argument justifying concealing identity. But, here we are.

Don't they deal with harassment from the public everyday!?! It. Comes. With. The. Job. (To an extent) And it's a product of having the first amendment which guarantees people yelling and cussing at the cops.

If they're being assaulted, that doesn't justify widespread masking. We have existing laws that protect cops and enable them to use violence against the perpetrators.

If they're being harassed, that doesn't justify widespread masking. IMO, that comes with the job (...to an extent) especially if you're performing politically unpopular activities. Insofar as the harassment occurs off-duty, they should get as much protection as an average citizen.

If they want to avoid being identified on a viral video for picking up Grandma Garcia, that doesn't justify widespread masking. (Probably the most likely reason...)

The conservative tolerance for this change is astounding. At this point, I think we have a difference in values and not on fact and I find myself (bizarrely) staking out the libertarian position against a conservative here (again).

In another week or two I'll be posting "don't tread on me" memes, citing Ayn Rand and defending a sovereign citizen.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Once death happens. You get huge savings. You want people to die to get off the Medicaid free gravy train. Like how prisoners die in jail due to tumors not treated.

It’s ugly that’s why I said I will leave the morality police opinion on this.

I mean, this is basically how private insurance operates. They want you to be healthy and not in need of healthcare, and then they want you to die.

It's the part in-between that costs so much money.

 

[chessknt]

Yup. Would be interesting to see how this correlates with the increased activity we're seeing ICE do as well. If they're going from 50 operations a year with X risk, to 100 operations a year with Y increased risk, what should the expected increase in the absolute number of violent encounters be?



Sure. My burning building example wasn't meant to be exhaustive. But they're masking while doing fairly routine activities IMO.



It's a bad argument to use to justify the practice if you aren't coming up with anything!

We can justify any number of things if they're imaginary and/or rare events. It's why we have a massive Homeland Security office now. It's why we have a strong anti-vax movement. (To pick on my own side) It's citing the number of police shootings of unarmed black men to justify police reform.



Don't they deal with harassment from the public everyday!?! It. Comes. With. The. Job. (To an extent) And it's a product of having the first amendment which guarantees people yelling and cussing at the cops.

If they're being assaulted, that doesn't justify widespread masking. We have existing laws that protect cops and enable them to use violence against the perpetrators.

If they're being harassed, that doesn't justify widespread masking. IMO, that comes with the job (...to an extent) especially if you're taking performing politically unpopular activities. Insofar as the harassment occurs off-duty, they should get as much protection as an average citizen.

If they want to avoid being identified on a viral video for picking up Grandma Garcia, that doesn't justify widespread masking. (Probably the most likely reason...)

The conservative tolerance for this change is astounding. At this point, I think we have a difference in values and not on fact and I find myself (bizarrely) staking out the libertarian position against a conservative here (again).

In another week or two I'll be posting "don't tread on me" memes, citing Ayn Rand and defending a sovereign citizen.

Assaulting them means you struggled while being accosted by them. Or if you trip and touch one of them on accident. Or get pushed in to one of them on accident. Or sometimes when you do literally nothing but they want to arrest you anyways.

How many cases of this form of assault have you been guilty of in your life? If you have ever been in a crowded venue or bumped in to someone you are apparently guilty of felony assault.

 

[nimbus]

I mean, this is basically how private insurance operates. They want you to be healthy and not in need of healthcare, and then they want you to die.

It's the part in-between that costs so much money.

Perfectly healthy ASA 1 dies at the scene after they get hit by a bus or in a motorcycle crash.

That is a health insurance company dream.

 

[cchoukal]

We went from a reported 10 incidents to 79 from Jan-jun looking at this year compare to last year. One a day to one every other day is a pretty significant increase.

Okay, Bill Nye, but the denominator went up immeasurably during that time. By your logic, it's just as likely the number of incidents, as a percentage of ICE-to-subject interactions actually went down.

 

[DocMcCoy]

Okay, Bill Nye, but the denominator went up immeasurably during that time. By your logic, it's just as likely the number of incidents, as a percentage of ICE-to-subject interactions actually went down.

If only we had more stats… Well that denominator certainly didn’t go up immeasurably. We are on pace for a 4-5 fold increase in Ice arrest this year compared to the previous administration average per year. Yet, ICE assaults are up around 8 fold and rising. Even adjusting for the increased ICE activity we are seeing twice as much violence toward ICE.

https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/34071.jpeg

Infographic: Has ICE Been More Active Under Trump?

This chart shows the number of arrests made by ICE's Enforcement and Removal Operations (2016-2025).

www.statista.com

 

[DocMcCoy]

Don't they deal with harassment from the public everyday!?! It. Comes. With. The. Job. (To an extent) And it's a product of having the first amendment which guarantees people yelling and cussing at the cops.

If they're being assaulted, that doesn't justify widespread masking. We have existing laws that protect cops and enable them to use violence against the perpetrators.

If they're being harassed, that doesn't justify widespread masking. IMO, that comes with the job (...to an extent) especially if you're performing politically unpopular activities. Insofar as the harassment occurs off-duty, they should get as much protection as an average citizen.

Yelling and cussing. Sure. Its the guise of peaceful protest we should have a problem with. You don’t think that line is being crossed at least in some instances???

The fact that isn’t being addressed directly is that people are taking advantage of the situation to publish names and faces of law enforcement. Posting their family members addresses and social media accounts online. Those people are receiving threats of violence. Which is a crime. It seems to be another one of those crimes the left doesn’t really care about at the moment.

Can’t hand wash that away as “just part of the job”.

“Getting as much protection as the average citizen” doesn’t really fit either, since there is separate and specific penal code addressing violence toward officials and law enforcement. Legally, the issues aren’t handled the same.

I get it you don’t like it. But your argument against it is still far from convincing. It hinges on the fact that it MAY result in increased impersonation and it MAY erode public trust in law enforcement. Like those cities held ICE in such high regard before masking.

 

[rowsdower88]

Yelling and cussing. Sure. Its the guise of peaceful protest we should have a problem with. You don’t think that line is being crossed at least in some instances???

Yep, and we have existing protections for that... right? You already can't assault an officer/agent. Masking doesn't change that.

The fact that isn’t being addressed directly is that people are taking advantage of the situation to publish names and faces of law enforcement. Posting their family members addresses and social media accounts online. Those people are receiving threats of violence. Which is a crime. It seems to be another one of those crimes the left doesn’t really care about at the moment.

What does "addressed directly" mean here? What are you proposing? You want to give cops/agents MORE protections against doxxing that average citizens don't get?

Doxxing happens to a lot of people. There are laws in some states against it already. And I can even say there should be more! Cops/agents shouldn't get more protection than the average citizen wrt doxxing. If they're receiving threats of violence, then they should have the same recourse ANY OTHER CITIZEN should have available to them.

Can’t hand wash that away as “just part of the job”.

Absolutely can. If a person is yelling slurs at an ICE agent it isn't materially different from yelling their home address at them. Still free speech.

“Getting as much protection as the average citizen” doesn’t really fit either, since there is separate and specific penal code addressing violence toward officials and law enforcement. Legally, the issues aren’t handled the same.

Show me where doxxing a cop gets you in more trouble than doxxing me? If it exists, I disagree with it. As far as I know, "doxxing laws" as they currently exist fall under the cyberbullying and harassment umbrella.

I get it you don’t like it. But your argument against it is still far from convincing. It hinges on the fact that it MAY result in increased impersonation and it MAY erode public trust in law enforcement. Like those cities held ICE in such high regard before masking.

At least I can point to impersonations of ICE agents that have resulted in violent crimes. So far, you're describing doxxing that hasn't resulted in any violent activity as far as we know.

 

[rowsdower88]

If only we had more stats… Well that denominator certainly didn’t go up immeasurably. We are on pace for a 4-5 fold increase in Ice arrest this year compared to the previous administration average per year. Yet, ICE assaults are up around 8 fold and rising. Even adjusting for the increased ICE activity we are seeing twice as much violence toward ICE.

https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/34071.jpeg

Infographic: Has ICE Been More Active Under Trump?

This chart shows the number of arrests made by ICE's Enforcement and Removal Operations (2016-2025).

www.statista.com

So the absolute number has gone up (10 incidents to 79), but with context and given the heightened political nature of their operations (going after non-violent, non-criminal offenders and shipping them to El Salvador) we probably could expect this.

Have they been doing riskier operations as well?

And... again, none of these incidents correlate with doxxing so far, which I'll remind you was your original argument for masking.

Do you just believe every cop/agent should be masking? Should that just be the status quo? If 79 violent incidents not correlated with doxxing is enough justification for widespread masking, why wasn't 10?

 

[DocMcCoy]

Yep, and we have existing protections for that... right? You already can't assault an officer/agent. Masking doesn't change that.

Masking can prevent the leaking of personal information, which if you believe the director of ICE, has led to terroristic threats of violence towards officers and their families. Which, is a crime, which is treated separately and more harshly toward threats to the general public.

What does "addressed directly" mean here? What are you proposing? You want to give cops/agents MORE protections against doxxing that average citizens don't get?

Doxxing happens to a lot of people. There are laws in some states against it already. And I can even say there should be more! Cops/agents shouldn't get more protection than the average citizen wrt doxxing. If they're receiving threats of violence, then they should have the same recourse ANY OTHER CITIZEN should have available to them.

The point is they do have more protections. There are many protected groups. Even educators and health care workers in some states have more doxxing protections than the “average” citizen.

You don’t believe government agents, and elected officials should have more protection than the common citizen? I guess that’s an argument. Let’s start with Nancy Pelosi’s security detail…

Absolutely can. If a person is yelling slurs at an ICE agent it isn't materially different from yelling their home address at them. Still free speech.

Thats not what is happening. Doxxing with the intent to cause harm is NOT 1st amendment protected activity. Personalized threats of violence are materially different than telling ICE to F off. If I send a picture of your children to your home address stating I’m going to kill them, I doubt that is going to qualify as protected free speech.

Do you just believe every cop/agent should be masking? Should that just be the status quo? If 79 violent incidents not correlated with doxxing is enough justification for widespread masking, why wasn't 10?

They are operating with the letter of the law. As long as a credible threat to their safety persists through doxxing, and they aren’t doing anything illegal, I believe the masking is justified.

 

[rowsdower88]

Masking can prevent the leaking of personal information, which if you believe the director of ICE, has led to terroristic threats of violence towards officers and their families. Which, is a crime, which is treated separately and more harshly toward threats to the general public.

Source? If I make a threatening phone call to Nancy Pelosi or to my neighbor, I expect both threats to be taken seriously. I legitimately don't know what you're referring to.

The point is they do have more protections. There are many protected groups. Even educators and health care workers in some states have more doxxing protections than the “average” citizen.

You don’t believe government agents, and elected officials should have more protection than the common citizen? I guess that’s an argument. Let’s start with Nancy Pelosi’s security detail…

Against doxxing? No. Against threats made over the phone? I expect the seriousness of the threat to be taken into account, like all threats. I expect Pelosi to have more serious threats made against her than my neighbor. Hence the security. I think ICE agents fall far closer to my neighbor than to Nancy Pelosi, seeing as how we aren't seeing violent doxxing related incidents yet.

Thats not what is happening. Doxxing with the intent to cause harm is NOT 1st amendment protected activity. Personalized threats of violence are materially different than telling ICE to F off. If I send a picture of your children to your home address stating I’m going to kill them, I doubt that is going to qualify as protected free speech.

Now you're getting into a specific hypothetical.

You're saying if I make a personalized threat of violence via phone call with my neighbor and another with an ICE agent, one of those should be treated differently than the other.

I don't believe that should be true.

"Doxxing" isn't the same as a "personalized threat of violence". Doxxing is releasing names, addresses, etc... and the laws that pertain to it are cyberbullying and harassment laws. Making a personalized threat of violence, while it can be the result of doxxing, isnt the same as doxxing.

They are operating with the letter of the law. As long as a credible threat to their safety persists through doxxing, and they aren’t doing anything illegal, I believe the masking is justified.

Oh, they're operating within the letter of the law.

I don't believe the threat to their safety is credible at this point and the harms with widespread masking are going to get worse until they stop masking. Whether they stop masking due to public pressure or a change in administration, we'll have to wait and see.

You at the very least understand why people are concerned about a ballooning ICE budget, while they're routinely masking, making many mistakes, reducing transparency and making Constitutionally adventurous decisions?

Is that concern valid?

 

[DocMcCoy]

Source? If I make a threatening phone call to Nancy Pelosi or to my neighbor, I expect both threats to be taken seriously. I legitimately don't know what you're referring to.

Against doxxing? No. Against threats made over the phone? I expect the seriousness of the threat to be taken into account, like all threats. I expect Pelosi to have more serious threats made against her than my neighbor. I think ICE agents fall far closer to my neighbor than to Nancy Pelosi, seeing as how we aren't seeing violent doxxing related incidents yet.

You are kind of talking in circles here.

First, let’s not obfuscate by taking about phone calls. The argument is doxxing with the intent to cause harm or harass.

You want a threat against Nancy Pelosi and a civilian both to “be taken seriously” but then recognize some subsets of people receive more “serious” threats than others.

While you think ICE agents fall closer to your neighbor than Nancy Pelosi, you recognize a spectrum, and the very least the seriousness of a threat to an ICE agent (who inherently takes known risks in performing their duties) is somewhat higher than that of your neighbor?

Now you're getting into a specific hypothetical.

You're saying if I make a personalized threat of violence via phone call with my neighbor and another with an ICE agent, one of those should be treated differently than the other.

I don't believe that should be true.

But you recognize that if you dox with intent to cause harm to your neighbor vs Nancy Pelosi, they those cases would be treated differently? But this doesn’t apply to ICE agents for… reasons?

At any rate, there exists a myriad of state and federal law that disagrees with your opinion that threats toward your neighbor vs threats towards a federal agent (or many other protected groups) shouldn’t be treated differently. But you know that I know that you know that 😉.

 

[nimbus]

Since when is MAGA pro mask?

 

[DocMcCoy]

Since when is MAGA pro mask?

Apparently when the left became anti-mask. 🤷‍♂️ Strange times.

 

[maxxor]

Apparently when the left became anti-mask. 🤷‍♂️ Strange times.

I’d pinpoint it to Luigi Mangione when they realized masks interfere with facial recognition.

 

[MirrorTodd]

Since when is MAGA pro mask?

Since it fits their narrative. Just look at what DocMcCoy is doing here with this conversation. The arguments are utterly pathetic. Maybe, just maaaayyyyyybe if they were going after actual cartel/gang members where the threat of retribution is just a tiny bit higher, I'd support the masking up for specific missions. But seriously, they're going after ****ing farm, restaurant workers...they're going after nursing mothers...they're going after people at the ****ing courthouse trying to gain citizenship. They are going after the SOFTEST ****ing targets that they possibly can and DocMcCoy is trying to pretend like their lives and their families lives are at risk? Like gimme a ****ing break. Masking up to go after those soft targets is one of the most cowardly things I've seen in my lifetime. Straight up yellow-bellied cowardice.

 

[rowsdower88]

While you think ICE agents fall closer to your neighbor than Nancy Pelosi, you recognize a spectrum, and the very least the seriousness of a threat to an ICE agent (who inherently takes known risks in performing their duties) is somewhat higher than that of your neighbor?

No. I made that explicitly clear when I said ICE agents fall closer to my neighbor than to Nancy Pelosi.

But you recognize that if you dox with intent to cause harm to your neighbor vs Nancy Pelosi, they those cases would be treated differently? But this doesn’t apply to ICE agents for… reasons?

Is my neighbor a former Speaker of the House too? The reasons seem fairly obvious to me.

At any rate, there exists a myriad of state and federal law that disagrees with your opinion that threats toward your neighbor vs threats towards a federal agent (or many other protected groups) shouldn’t be treated differently. But you know that I know that you know that 😉.

You're now fully equating "doxxing" with "threats" and lost the plot.

There are good reasons why "doxxing" is treated the same way as cyberbullying, but you know that I know you know that 😉.

I'm aware you can't hinder/obstruct/intimidate an officer (and this is important) in the performance of their duties. Show me the anti-police/ICE doxxing law. You want to know why I'm confident there isn't really an existing one? Because they want to make one:

Revealing ICE agents' identities could lead to prison under new bill

GOP Senator Marsha Blackburn said Democratic mayors are "doing everything they can" to block White House deportation attempts.

www.newsweek.com

 

[nimbus]

Florida man sentenced to 2 years for threats to kill California Rep. Swalwell and his kids

The man and his attorney said the threats were made after drinking. Prosecutors argued they were "part of a pattern of conduct."

www.nbcnews.com

 

[nimbus]

Even if they cover their faces, ICE needs to have ID numbers plainly visible on their vests or helmets and uniforms that clearly identify them as ICE. Otherwise it is a fascist secret police force without accountability. Would people agree with that?

 

[DocMcCoy]

Since it fits their narrative. Just look at what DocMcCoy is doing here with this conversation. The arguments are utterly pathetic. Maybe, just maaaayyyyyybe if they were going after actual cartel/gang members where the threat of retribution is just a tiny bit higher, I'd support the masking up for specific missions. But seriously, they're going after ****ing farm, restaurant workers...they're going after nursing mothers...they're going after people at the ****ing courthouse trying to gain citizenship. They are going after the SOFTEST ****ing targets that they possibly can and DocMcCoy is trying to pretend like their lives and their families lives are at risk? Like gimme a ****ing break. Masking up to go after those soft targets is one of the most cowardly things I've seen in my lifetime. Straight up yellow-bellied cowardice.

K buddy. Operating legally. But I’m not defending some of the targets I’m defending the justification for masking. The threat isn’t coming from those they are going after. It’s coming from the blue haired independent journalist antifa lovers they turn around and post the data online with specific threats. Now that is some yellow bellied cowardice. At least the dipshts chucking fireworks and rocks have the balls to do up close and in person. I can kinda respect that.

You can crawl back under your rock now.

 

[DocMcCoy]

Even if they cover their faces, ICE needs to have ID numbers plainly visible on their vests or helmets and uniforms that clearly identify them as ICE. Otherwise it is a fascist secret police force without accountability. Would people agree with that?

No problem with that.

 

[DocMcCoy]

You're now fully equating "doxxing" with "threats" and lost the plot.

The whole ICE argument is that in many cases they are one and the same.

 

[nimbus]

ICE NOT WELCOME: Verify, Document, and Report

WE KNOW OUR RIGHTS when U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) is at our door.We know not to open the door.We know to ask for a warrant.We know not to answer any questions.But now, ICE agents have resorted to trickery and deception. Instead of identifying themselves as ICE, they...

www.aclusocal.org

 

[nimbus]

Responding to ICE in Emergency Departments: Protecting Patients and Navigating Legal Obligations

Recent changes in U.S. immigration enforcement policies have led to ICE officials entering hospitals, seeking to remove patients. How should emergency physicians respond? What are the legal options and ramifications?

www.emra.org

 

[nimbus]

Pope Leo's first US bishop takes action against Trump migrant crackdown

"The people of faith stand with immigrants and refugees," Rev. Michael Pham said.

www.newsweek.com

 

[DocMcCoy]

Pope Leo's first US bishop takes action against Trump migrant crackdown

"The people of faith stand with immigrants and refugees," Rev. Michael Pham said.

www.newsweek.com

Imagine that. He’s not advocating for lighting cities on fire and assaulting and/or doxxing feds.

 

[nimbus]

K buddy. Operating legally. But I’m not defending some of the targets I’m defending the justification for masking. The threat isn’t coming from those they are going after. It’s coming from the blue haired independent journalist antifa lovers they turn around and post the data online with specific threats. Now that is some yellow bellied cowardice. At least the dipshts chucking fireworks and rocks have the balls to do up close and in person. I can kinda respect that.

You can crawl back under your rock now.

Example?

 

[DocMcCoy]

Example?

Of what specifically? Dipshts lighting cities on fire and assaulting law enforcement? Or are you denying the doxxing of agents and things like the ICE list database don’t list? Or are we denying the multiple statements of the doxxing with specific malicious intent by ICE, DHS, HSI et al, employees both former and current from all ranks that it is happening?

 

[nimbus]

Of what specifically? Dipshts lighting cities on fire and assaulting law enforcement? Or are you denying the doxxing of agents and things like the ICE list database don’t list? Or are we denying the multiple statements of the doxxing with specific malicious intent by ICE, DHS, HSI et al, employees both former and current from all ranks that it is happening?

Doxxing.

All I can find are press releases condemning amplification of public databases already published by the US government. The information is already public so who cares.

 

[rowsdower88]

Even if they cover their faces, ICE needs to have ID numbers plainly visible on their vests or helmets and uniforms that clearly identify them as ICE. Otherwise it is a fascist secret police force without accountability. Would people agree with that?

That hasn't been the status quo and acknowledging that ought to be the priority.

Change has to occur at the top because words like "accountability" mean nothing to this administration. ICE's conduct has grown increasingly opaque.

They need to reassess their goals. They need to reassess what interests they are trying to serve and who they are serving them for.

I assume even docmccoy would agree with this.

 

[MirrorTodd]

K buddy. Operating legally. But I’m not defending some of the targets I’m defending the justification for masking. The threat isn’t coming from those they are going after. It’s coming from the blue haired independent journalist antifa lovers they turn around and post the data online with specific threats. Now that is some yellow bellied cowardice. At least the dipshts chucking fireworks and rocks have the balls to do up close and in person. I can kinda respect that.

You can crawl back under your rock now.

Ah yes, the liberal blue haired boogeyman, or woman. 😉 I’ll keep my eyes open.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

K buddy. Operating legally. But I’m not defending some of the targets I’m defending the justification for masking. The threat isn’t coming from those they are going after. It’s coming from the blue haired independent journalist antifa lovers they turn around and post the data online with specific threats. Now that is some yellow bellied cowardice. At least the dipshts chucking fireworks and rocks have the balls to do up close and in person. I can kinda respect that.

You can crawl back under your rock now.

Weird last I saw it was Jewish organizations that were all about doxxing protestors. Plenty of the people on there have no other offense than "participating in an anti-Israel event". Seems like similar yellow bellied cowardice as you say.

Canary Mission

Canary Mission database was created to document the people and groups that are promoting hatred of the USA, Israel and Jews on college campuses in North America. Every individual and organization has been carefully researched and sourced. If you appreciate the work of Canary Mission, please help...

canarymission.org

 

[nimbus]

Weird last I saw it was Jewish organizations that were all about doxxing protestors. Plenty of the people on there have no other offense than "participating in an anti-Israel event". Seems like similar yellow bellied cowardice as you say.

Canary Mission

Canary Mission database was created to document the people and groups that are promoting hatred of the USA, Israel and Jews on college campuses in North America. Every individual and organization has been carefully researched and sourced. If you appreciate the work of Canary Mission, please help...

canarymission.org

Oh yeah, an entire website solely devoted to doxxing.

 

[DocMcCoy]

Ah yes, the liberal blue haired boogeyman, or woman. 😉 I’ll keep my eyes open.

Only 2 genders!?!!! You bigoted fascist how dare you!

 

[DocMcCoy]

That hasn't been the status quo and acknowledging that ought to be the priority.

Change has to occur at the top because words like "accountability" mean nothing to this administration. ICE's conduct has grown increasingly opaque.

They need to reassess their goals. They need to reassess what interests they are trying to serve and who they are serving them for.

I assume even docmccoy would agree with this.

100 percent. I think identifying as law enforcement and concealing personal identity should be separate issues and the former is indefensible.

Weird last I saw it was Jewish organizations that were all about doxxing protestors. Plenty of the people on there have no other offense than "participating in an anti-Israel event". Seems like similar yellow bellied cowardice as you say.

Absolutely. I think doxxing period is a b.s. tactic

 

[Southpaw]

Since when is MAGA pro mask?

When Trump says to be pro mask. But only then.

 

[Southpaw]

Weird last I saw it was Jewish organizations that were all about doxxing protestors. Plenty of the people on there have no other offense than "participating in an anti-Israel event". Seems like similar yellow bellied cowardice as you say.

Canary Mission

Canary Mission database was created to document the people and groups that are promoting hatred of the USA, Israel and Jews on college campuses in North America. Every individual and organization has been carefully researched and sourced. If you appreciate the work of Canary Mission, please help...

canarymission.org

Well if you’re pro Palestinian you’re not allowed a mask. I mean really you shouldn’t even be in the country, especially if you’re a student. But if maybe possibly you could be doxxed the mask is allowed. All per Trump. Whatever Trump says is written

 

[aneftp]

How do other civilized countries handle illegal
Immigrants?

Do they offer them asylum? Social services? Send them back to their country (like Denmark sent immigrants back)

Germany is really cracking down on illegals these days. We all have seen what unsmart immigrantion, particularly in France the last 2-3 decades. Some of it racism on the French. Some of it just pure criminal activity on the immigrants

The way I feel about immigration in the USA is

1. If you are here illegally. You are asked to leave. Leave. The USA asked you nicely to leave. Go through the proper path to get back into the USA. If you over stayed your visa. You are screwed. Laws are to be followed. If we don’t have laws in place to follow. Than what’s the purpose of the law?

2. If you are here legally. Behave. Don’t do anything stupid. Post anti USA messages , anti Jewish , anti Asian, anti Muslim , anti anything messages. Freedom of speech only gets you so far as legal resident here , dui, petty theft

3. I really don’t understand the asylum seekers from many Central American and some South American countries. Why can’t North Korea or Russia take them? Or other South American counties where there is less of a language barrier? Are those countries just as anti immigrant as the USA these days?

 

[maxxor]

3. I really don’t understand the asylum seekers from many Central American and some South American countries. Why can’t North Korea or Russia take them? Or other South American counties where there is less of a language barrier? Are those countries just as anti immigrant as the USA these days?

A big factor is that other countries enforce illegal immigration at the employer level. Strictly. For rea$on$, the US government never seems to enforce the laws on employers despite there being a way to eVerify since the 1990s.

You can get from the tip of Argentina to the southern US border using a motorcycle. No plane needed.

Those other countries require flying across the Pacific Ocean. They are not meaningful destinations for Asylum; and besides, who wants to go to those countries? These are people fleeing a hellhole, not fleeing to a hellhole.

 

[rowsdower88]

Shot:

Chaser:

 

[UscGhost]

How do other civilized countries handle illegal
Immigrants?

Do they offer them asylum? Social services? Send them back to their country (like Denmark sent immigrants back)

Germany is really cracking down on illegals these days. We all have seen what unsmart immigrantion, particularly in France the last 2-3 decades. Some of it racism on the French. Some of it just pure criminal activity on the immigrants

The way I feel about immigration in the USA is

1. If you are here illegally. You are asked to leave. Leave. The USA asked you nicely to leave. Go through the proper path to get back into the USA. If you over stayed your visa. You are screwed. Laws are to be followed. If we don’t have laws in place to follow. Than what’s the purpose of the law?

2. If you are here legally. Behave. Don’t do anything stupid. Post anti USA messages , anti Jewish , anti Asian, anti Muslim , anti anything messages. Freedom of speech only gets you so far as legal resident here , dui, petty theft

3. I really don’t understand the asylum seekers from many Central American and some South American countries. Why can’t North Korea or Russia take them? Or other South American counties where there is less of a language barrier? Are those countries just as anti immigrant as the USA these days?

Thats easy. Other countries dont have jobs, and generally arent culturally accepting of other races.

Those same countries are also desperate for more children, and a younger demographic (both things that immigrants provide) but their culture isnt reasy to accept them

The US has benefitted immensely from its immigrant population. The only thing standing in our way from further benefits is the GOP.

 

[MirrorTodd]

Nothing like a good ole fashioned lie to start your day.

 

[pgg]

Since when is MAGA pro mask?

It's remarkable that the same MAGA (aka the party-formerly-known-as-Republican) cohort that absolutely soiled itself so hard over a plan to hire IRS bureaucrats to check tax returns that the smell still lingers over most of the continental United States, is now cheering a massive expansion of a semi-anonymous police force tasked with actually grabbing people off the street.

 

[pgg]

I really don’t understand the asylum seekers from many Central American and some South American countries. Why can’t North Korea or Russia take them?

This is the sort of question I'd expect from a 5 year old who has never seen a map.

 

[aneftp]

Thats easy. Other countries dont have jobs, and generally arent culturally accepting of other races.

Those same countries are also desperate for more children, and a younger demographic (both things that immigrants provide) but their culture isnt reasy to accept them

The US has benefitted immensely from its immigrant population. The only thing standing in our way from further benefits is the GOP.

There is legal immigration and illegal immigration.

And even legal immigrants here need to be on their best behavior (not even minor crimes).

The Mexican undocumented illegal crossings the borders didn’t really start till the late 1960s

And guess why it happened (the illegal entry into the USA). It’s because the Democrats signed the 1965 Immigration and Nationality Act.

The law like most democrat passed laws in theory at the time (just like the amt) was meant to be anti discriminatory and focus on immigrants who can bring the best labor and means to this country

That’s why I try to criticize your holistic outlook on intentions vs real life execution.

That immigration law made it even harder for Mexicans to enter the USA legally. That’s the irony of all these riots and protest we currently see. A democratically passed law that has back fired over the decades and democrats blaming republicans for laws democrats passed.

The freakin irony folks. Laws passed have unintended consequences.

Did the 1965 Immigration Act backfire?

How immigration quotas and harsh enforcement backfired.

www.wilsonquarterly.com