Biden Out of Race

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
IMG_6356.png
 
You are not serious! Are you?
I imagine naval warfare will be next with the big beautiful navy going in to save the world from Iranian terrorists. Who would have thought after 3 ground wars in the middle east that we would have appetite for a third in 30 years.

Oil prices to the moon though gotta make that money while we eat our young. It's the boomer way.
 
I imagine naval warfare will be next with the big beautiful navy going in to save the world from Iranian terrorists. Who would have thought after 3 ground wars in the middle east that we would have appetite for a third in 30 years.

Oil prices to the moon though gotta make that money while we eat our young. It's the boomer way.
There is no appetite for war in the Middle East. We have become so partisan that most will accept whatever BS their 'favorite' party is engaged in.
 
There is no appetite for war in the Middle East. We have become so partisan that most will accept whatever BS their 'favorite' party is engaged in.
No way the left would have swallowed this. Look at how many on the left refused to vote because Biden wouldnt take a firm position in the Israel Gaza crisis. The right ideology is much more fluid to be whatever Trump needs it to be which is another prerequisite to authoritarian takeover.
 
There is no appetite for war in the Middle East. We have become so partisan that most will accept whatever BS their 'favorite' party is engaged in.
Not every military action is war. Nobody thinks that Iran getting nukes is a good idea. Probably decent support for US bombing of Iranian nuclear facilities-if it doesn't turn to ****. With hindsight Iraq war 2 and our Afghanistan strategy were catastrophes. Wasn't clear at the time. We also don't know how many horrors have been averted by US military action...or new enemies created.

 
Not every military action is war. Nobody thinks that Iran getting nukes is a good idea. Probably decent support for US bombing of Iranian nuclear facilities-if it doesn't turn to ****. With hindsight Iraq war 2 and our Afghanistan strategy were catastrophes. Wasn't clear at the time. We also don't know how many horrors have been averted by US military action...or new enemies created.

No one thought N Korea having nuclear bombs was a good idea. What's your point?

Why can't France/England/Germany/China etc... take care of Iran if they also think it's not a good idea? Let's call it what it is. We are just fighting Israel war.
 
No way the left would have swallowed this. Look at how many on the left refused to vote because Biden wouldnt take a firm position in the Israel Gaza crisis. The right ideology is much more fluid to be whatever Trump needs it to be which is another prerequisite to authoritarian takeover.
But they would swallow other things. I agree the republican party now is just whatever Trump says/does.
 
You think the left would be more accepting of warmongering against who exactly?
I meant they would accept things like mass immigration, not wars in particular.

Again, I agree that the republican party has become unrecognizable. I am a registered republican for god sake.
 
Not every military action is war. Nobody thinks that Iran getting nukes is a good idea. Probably decent support for US bombing of Iranian nuclear facilities-if it doesn't turn to ****. With hindsight Iraq war 2 and our Afghanistan strategy were catastrophes. Wasn't clear at the time. We also don't know how many horrors have been averted by US military action...or new enemies created.

What was the exact urgency? I agree if there were signs they were imminently producing a weapon, I would have been more understanding. There was nothing suggesting that. In fact, the US was set to have more diplomatic talks in Qatar? when Netanyahu started his new front. Perhaps that was the impetus…not actual imminent threat

Totally agree that Obama drone strikes may have created more future terrorists. I remember seeing a clip of a toddler saying they were scared of clear sunny days because the drone strikes could happen there vs cloudy days when perhaps it’s more difficult with visibility. I can see how a kid growing through adolescence in that constant fear could become hardened more and more.
 
Last edited:
I do have to give some credit to Trump and Hegseth, and of course the military forces that did the work. It appears this went off with perfect OPSEC including some clever diversion/decoy work. No WhatsApp or Signal chats with reporters. Complete surprise, no friendly losses, and (so far it appears) objectives were actually met.

While I still question the wisdom of bombing Iran in the first place, and I suspect it's futile in the long run, I'm impressed with the execution.
 
I do have to give some credit to Trump and Hegseth, and of course the military forces that did the work. It appears this went off with perfect OPSEC including some clever diversion/decoy work. No WhatsApp or Signal chats with reporters. Complete surprise, no friendly losses, and (so far it appears) objectives were actually met.

While I still question the wisdom of bombing Iran in the first place, and I suspect it's futile in the long run, I'm impressed with the execution.
Complete surprise? The news has reported trump ok’ed a plan the whole week. Iran reportedly moved stuff since then.
 
I do have to give some credit to Trump and Hegseth, and of course the military forces that did the work. It appears this went off with perfect OPSEC including some clever diversion/decoy work. No WhatsApp or Signal chats with reporters. Complete surprise, no friendly losses, and (so far it appears) objectives were actually met.

While I still question the wisdom of bombing Iran in the first place, and I suspect it's futile in the long run, I'm impressed with the execution.

Iran is saying they knew 2 days in advance and all materials were moved. They’re reporting the US bombed empty facilities. Hegseth probably had Khomeini on the signal group chat.
 
Vice President JD Vance signaled that Iran's stockpile of enriched uranium is still intact but also that the U.S. isn’t interested in destroying the regime.

Cue the trump photoshop into mission accomplished photo
 
Complete surprise? The news has reported trump ok’ed a plan the whole week. Iran reportedly moved stuff since then.
Yeah we’ve been hearing about this for awhile. Even when the b2 moved over there everyone knew.

Maybe this is one of those dumb “shows of force” like the Iranians were doing a few months back.
 
Vice President JD Vance signaled that Iran's stockpile of enriched uranium is still intact but also that the U.S. isn’t interested in destroying the regime.

Cue the trump photoshop into mission accomplished photo
Now what is next?

Are they gonna come to the negotiating table after we bomb them?

Will the people there be more sympathetic to their oppressive government?

Will they say let's have a bomb just like N. Korea so people can leave us alone?
 
I do have to give some credit to Trump and Hegseth, and of course the military forces that did the work. It appears this went off with perfect OPSEC including some clever diversion/decoy work. No WhatsApp or Signal chats with reporters. Complete surprise, no friendly losses, and (so far it appears) objectives were actually met.

While I still question the wisdom of bombing Iran in the first place, and I suspect it's futile in the long run, I'm impressed with the execution.
The long run can be very long. Iraqi reactor bombed 1981. No reported efforts at acquiring nukes.
Syrian Reactor bombed 2007. No reported efforts at acquiring nukes.
BTW, thank god Saddam Husein didn't have nukes when Kuwait was invaded. thank god Assad didn't have nukes as his regime was collapsing.
 
Complete surprise? The news has reported trump ok’ed a plan the whole week.
The threat has been made for a while. Even in this thread we were cynically speculating that Trump might actually be dumb enough to attack Iran.

The slow buildup of B2s in Guam seems to have been effective in convincing them a strike wasn't imminent. No shots were fired at our aircraft. So yeah, complete operational surprise.

Iran reportedly moved stuff since then.
Iran is saying they knew 2 days in advance and all materials were moved. They’re reporting the US bombed empty facilities.
Of course they would say that. Surely you're not gullible enough to think that enriching equipment and machinery could be moved out of a facility like that in 2 days? C'mon.

They probably could have removed the enriched uranium stored there. But it wouldn't make sense to store more than was needed for processing there at any time, anyway. Their enriched uranium is always going to be stored in multiple locations, dispersed, in smaller quantities, to avoid exactly this risk of destruction in one fell swoop. They're not stupid.

And again, I was and am of the opinion that this attack was ultimately pointless in dissuading Iran from building a bomb. At best it destroyed or degraded some of their facilities for doing the work.

Hegseth probably had Khomeini on the signal group chat.
Hegseth is a ***** and grossly unqualified for his job.

Criticizing these guys when they actually do their job with a measure of competence is just partisan hackery, though.
 
Iran is saying they knew 2 days in advance and all materials were moved. They’re reporting the US bombed empty facilities. Hegseth probably had Khomeini on the signal group chat.
Most, if not all, of the important equipment is not moved easily like that
 

Why?

I am a republican because of social issues but that does not mean I do not want people in the LGBTQ community to get help. That is cruel.
 
No one thought N Korea having nuclear bombs was a good idea. What's your point?

Why can't France/England/Germany/China etc... take care of Iran if they also think it's not a good idea? Let's call it what it is. We are just fighting Israel war.
Exactly. Iran isn't a threat to us. America was just used as a proxy force by Israel to attack Iran. I wonder if Iran will see the irony. Most people didn't think it was a good idea for Pakistan or North Korea to have nucs, but we didn't stop them.
 

Why?

I am a republican because of social issues but that does not mean I do not want people in the LGBTQ community to get help. That is cruel.
Jesus
 

Why?

I am a republican because of social issues but that does not mean I do not want people in the LGBTQ community to get help. That is cruel.
You’re a republican? What social issues?
 
You’re a republican? What social issues?
Against LGBTQ issues in general, illegal immigration, abortion etc...

I am also fiscally conservative but I must admit my party is worse than the dems, but I don't care because I am a physician, and should be ok regardless whatever fiscal mess they tend to cause.
 
Iran is saying they knew 2 days in advance and all materials were moved. They’re reporting the US bombed empty facilities.
Did you take chemistry in school at all?
This is just absolutely impossible.

Enriching uranium is an incredibly delicate, massively power hungry process likely done in Iran using gas centrifuges. 1000s are required each engineered of maraging steel and precisely aligned. They moved nothing in 2 days.

And a hand grenade in the middle of those centrifuges would do a lot of damage...
 
Against LGBTQ issues in general, illegal immigration, abortion etc...

I am also fiscally conservative but I must admit my party is worse than the dems, but I don't care because I am a physician, and should be ok regardless whatever fiscal mess they tend to cause.
What does that mean though? What does being against LGBTQ look like if not for deprivation of services and oppression? You must have learned about the aids epidemic in the 80s and the stigma the gay community faced--going back to that is what you are voting for with the Republican party. Hell they want to pull coverage on HIV meds and bring back aids for real.
 
What does that mean though? What does being against LGBTQ look like if not for deprivation of services and oppression? You must have learned about the aids epidemic in the 80s and the stigma the gay community faced--going back to that is what you are voting for with the Republican party. Hell they want to pull coverage on HIV meds and bring back aids for real.
I am against gay marriage (but that ship has sailed). I am against transgender men using women bathroom. They should not be allowed to compete against women in sports. I don't think these are oppression and deprivation of services.
 
I am against gay marriage (but that ship has sailed). I am against transgender men using women bathroom. They should not be allowed to compete against women in sports. I don't think these are oppression and deprivation of services.
But the rest of your team wants to push it a lot further than that and turn them in to second class citizens again. Like it or not you have to pick one or the other because moderates don't exist anymore.

Think it through though beyond the sound bites--If they push gay marriage back to SCOTUS (as Thomas has invited them to do) and invalidate it nationwide would you support that? What about gay couples with children, how will that impact them? Tax implications? Probate? Healthcare decisions? These were all done in the shadows before gay marriage was legalized (which you are against). Is that not oppression?
 
Did you take chemistry in school at all?
This is just absolutely impossible.

Enriching uranium is an incredibly delicate, massively power hungry process likely done in Iran using gas centrifuges. 1000s are required each engineered of maraging steel and precisely aligned. They moved nothing in 2 days.

And a hand grenade in the middle of those centrifuges would do a lot of damage...

materials being the enriched uranium. Certainly we hit a lot of their equipment wrecking the nuclear program moving forward.

We will see how this develops. Iran is close with Pakistan and Russia. They may receive assistance getting a nuke. As has been said, if they want a nuke they’ll get one. It’s not a matter of if but when.

Countries with nukes tend to be left alone. Those without tend to get bombed and attacked.
 
Last edited:
materials being the enriched uranium.
Obviously whatever they have was not enough. They would have demonstrated if they had enough. Best reports indicate 60% so far. Not bad but still a good distance off where you need to be. And this is a culmination of probably 20 years of work.


What's the most important is the personnel and equipment they have developed and the procedures around that. Without that I think they're going to be in trouble.
 
Obviously whatever they have was not enough. They would have demonstrated if they had enough. Best reports indicate 60% so far. Not bad but still a good distance off where you need to be. And this is a culmination of probably 20 years of work.
The leap from 60% to weapons grade isn't very big, compared to what it takes to get to 60%.

Just time and electricity. The technical ability is demonstrated.

What's the most important is the personnel and equipment they have developed and the procedures around that. Without that I think they're going to be in trouble.
They're a large, populous nation state with enormous resources.

NK was able to do it. If Iran wants nuclear weapons, they'll get them.

The problem with Iran isn't their nuclear program, it never was. It's their sponsorship of others to wage proxy wars. They're just going to redouble those efforts now. Things were bad but they are worse today than last week.

Also, by overtly attacking a nation you tend to consolidate public support around its leaders, no matter how ****ty those leaders are. Iran has a younger population that is tired of its hardline religious leaders and generally desires more engagement with the outside world. We should be containing Iran and reaching out to those people the way we did to people living behind the iron curtain during the Cold War.

You know. Diplomacy. Containment. Strong alliances and deterrence, not preemptive military action. Voice Of America and other propaganda / counter-propaganda.

Instead we have the worst "dealmaker" in living memory and perhaps all of post-Civil-War US history, tweeting about regime change, starting a shooting war, defunding VOA, and systematically alienating allies while denigrating our most important post WWII military alliance.
 
pretty sure they’ve just been holding off enriching further. They could have easily done so but have not. It’s true they could have enriched further quickly within estimated weeks. It’s been a point of leverage, but again there was no intelligence suggesting they were actively pursuing a weapon and further enrichment. So a very malignant negotiating tactic, but no imminent threat

Once again, they were fully complying with inspections and enrichment requirements in the previous agreement with US through Obama. When trump trashed it, they enriched further. He destabilized the situation then, and he’s destabilized it even more now.
 
Obviously whatever they have was not enough. They would have demonstrated if they had enough. Best reports indicate 60% so far. Not bad but still a good distance off where you need to be. And this is a culmination of probably 20 years of work.


What's the most important is the personnel and equipment they have developed and the procedures around that. Without that I think they're going to be in trouble.

My belief on whats most important is a long term solution that doesn’t cause danger to Americans moving forward. A safer world for my kids and grandkids. I see that as truly ‘America First’. Not just some slogan to garner populist support.

Is America safer after any of our ‘regime change’ wars? Are we safer after bombing Iran? The answer to both is easily a ‘NO’.
 
Help to talk to someone that is really trained to talk about their sexual orientation, depression etc...
You mean like counseling and mental health that's available to everyone?

It sounds like you are suggesting that all flavors of LGBTetc are inherently mental or medical ailments, and so they all have a need for help to cope with and potentially recover from it. Is that the case or do you mean something else?
 
You mean like counseling and mental health that's available to everyone?

It sounds like you are suggesting that all flavors of LGBTetc are inherently mental or medical ailments, and so they all have a need for help to cope with and potentially recover from it. Is that the case or do you mean something else?
Not suggesting that at all. I am suggesting that someone with more expertise in that realm might do a better job in helping them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pgg
Top