"Big stuff doesn't pay much anyways ... you won't do much RRA after residency"

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
I didnt feel like commenting on this post but now that you said it Yes this is on the money ... id also like to add that even with out of network fees to get these figures many "unbundle" and create more codes than required .. when i hear people tell me they got 10k+ for a bunion out of net its obvious how they most likely billed it (which isnt right and messes it up for everyone overtime)
I agree with you 100%. I can tell you that the out of network gravy train will be ending soon. Insurers have no reason to pay an OON provider ridiculous amounts when there are plenty of in network providers.

OON providers unbundling is not new and is simply insurance fraud.

Members don't see this ad.
 
Last I checked airbud has only ever been employed by like hospitals and ortho groups. I'm pretty doubtful he's taken a weekend course on how to OON bill.

He's either
(a) benefiting from the negotiated rate his orthopedic group receives / getting some sort of critical access money
(b) has some sort of set-up where the hospital gives part of the total surgery collections back to the orthopedic group.

I didn't think the above (b) was possible but I spoke to someone recently who claimed they'd reviewed the finances of an orthopedic practice in a super rural area who worked something like that out with a hospital. The orthos told the hospital to build them a surgical center. The hospital refused but settled for some sort of sharing of total revenue.

Consider that a TKA 27447 pays $1179 in Idaho. Do you think orthopedists actually accept that much for it when the hospital is potentially paid $30-100K+ for the procedure by the insurance (these numbers are based on a prior NYtimes article about TKA pricing in California in which CALPERS renegotiated a floor for TKA pricing)
 
Not medicare not out of network. Anyways...maybe @NobodyDPM can help me when I get audited
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Members don't see this ad :)
Last I checked airbud has only ever been employed by like hospitals and ortho groups. I'm pretty doubtful he's taken a weekend course on how to OON bill.

He's either
(a) benefiting from the negotiated rate his orthopedic group receives / getting some sort of critical access money
(b) has some sort of set-up where the hospital gives part of the total surgery collections back to the orthopedic group.

I didn't think the above (b) was possible but I spoke to someone recently who claimed they'd reviewed the finances of an orthopedic practice in a super rural area who worked something like that out with a hospital. The orthos told the hospital to build them a surgical center. The hospital refused but settled for some sort of sharing of total revenue.

Consider that a TKA 27447 pays $1179 in Idaho. Do you think orthopedists actually accept that much for it when the hospital is potentially paid $30-100K+ for the procedure by the insurance (these numbers are based on a prior NYtimes article about TKA pricing in California in which CALPERS renegotiated a floor for TKA pricing)
Option A is correct
 
Maybe I don't know what I am talking about and don't know how to read my billing reports. Maybe everything gets paid 100 percent. I don't make the rules. I am just a dumb country podiatrist. Wait was that a double negative?

And the scope was a scope, anterior tibia exostectomy, excised a old chaput fx, repaired AITFL with and IB, repaired ATFL with an IB, repaired tears in PB and PL as well as repaired the retinaculum with an IB. All MRI findings. Whole area hurt and looked like junk. Can't take risk of what does and does not hurt so it all got fixed.

Most important patient is walking multiple miles a day 5 months out And happy.

And for the record I didn't even bill fibula exostectomy...




Oh yeah also did cheilectomy.
 
Last edited:
Last I checked airbud has only ever been employed by like hospitals and ortho groups. I'm pretty doubtful he's taken a weekend course on how to OON bill.

He's either
(a) benefiting from the negotiated rate his orthopedic group receives / getting some sort of critical access money
(b) has some sort of set-up where the hospital gives part of the total surgery collections back to the orthopedic group.

I didn't think the above (b) was possible but I spoke to someone recently who claimed they'd reviewed the finances of an orthopedic practice in a super rural area who worked something like that out with a hospital. The orthos told the hospital to build them a surgical center. The hospital refused but settled for some sort of sharing of total revenue.

Consider that a TKA 27447 pays $1179 in Idaho. Do you think orthopedists actually accept that much for it when the hospital is potentially paid $30-100K+ for the procedure by the insurance (these numbers are based on a prior NYtimes article about TKA pricing in California in which CALPERS renegotiated a floor for TKA pricing)


Maybe I don't know what I am talking about and don't know how to read my billing reports. Maybe everything gets paid 100 percent. I don't make the rules. I am just a dumb country podiatrist. Wait was that a double negative?

And the scope was a scope, anterior tibia exostectomy, excised a old chaput fx, repaired AITFL with and IB, repaired ATFL with an IB, repaired tears in PB and PL as well as repaired the retinaculum with an IB. All MRI findings. Whole area hurt and looked like junk. Can't take risk of what does and does not hurt so it all got fixed.

Most important patient is walking multiple miles a day 5 months out And happy.

And for the record I didn't even bill fibula exostectomy...




Oh yeah also did cheilectomy.
Are you sure you saw the decimal in the correct spot!!! Those fees collected sound like what oral surgeons make.
 
Maybe I don't know what I am talking about and don't know how to read my billing reports. Maybe everything gets paid 100 percent. I don't make the rules. I am just a dumb country podiatrist. Wait was that a double negative?

And the scope was a scope, anterior tibia exostectomy, excised a old chaput fx, repaired AITFL with and IB, repaired ATFL with an IB, repaired tears in PB and PL as well as repaired the retinaculum with an IB. All MRI findings. Whole area hurt and looked like junk. Can't take risk of what does and does not hurt so it all got fixed.

Most important patient is walking multiple miles a day 5 months out And happy.

And for the record I didn't even bill fibula exostectomy...




Oh yeah also did cheilectomy.
Going back to original discussion...maybe be able to do more for this guy than an injection or two and an Arizona brace.
 
Are you sure you saw the decimal in the correct spot!!! Those fees collected sound like what oral surgeons make.

air bud often times has questionable billing practices…

But, I will say that before joining hospital MSG ortho group, my commercial contracts as a solo DPM in a rural community were fantastic. My worst contract was United at 138% of medicare and my best were Blue cross and a couple regional companies, all of which were 190% of medicare. Cigna sat somewhere in between (around 160%). All medicare advantage plans were 100% of the medicare allowable. Medicaid was about 80% of medicare.

I have a colleague who was offered a rate of 89% medicare for commercial BCBS PPO plans.

When you work in places that aren’t saturated, commercial insurance still pays like commercial insurance used to. Well, not commercial insurance of the 90’s, but closer to that than what a lot of people are offered today
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
air bud often times has questionable billing practices…

But, I will say that before joining hospital MSG ortho group, my commercial contracts as a solo DPM in a rural community were fantastic. My worst contract was United at 138% of medicare and my best were Blue cross and a couple regional companies, all of which were 190% of medicare. Cigna sat somewhere in between (around 160%). All medicare advantage plans were 100% of the medicare allowable. Medicaid was about 80% of medicare.

I have a colleague who was offered a rate of 89% medicare for commercial BCBS PPO plans.

When you work in places that aren’t saturated, commercial insurance still pays like commercial insurance used to. Well, not commercial insurance of the 90’s, but closer to that than what a lot of people are offered today
Yes, I have one very very large patient population that has been negotiated considerably larger than what the highest dtrack stated Unique situation, but the situation nonetheless. I am just here to see patients and make people better. Also, I am just a dumb podiatrist, this is not financial advice.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Yes, I have one very very large patient population that has been negotiated considerably larger than what the highest dtrack stated Unique situation, but the situation nonetheless. I am just here to see patients and make people better. Also, I am just a dumb podiatrist, this is not financial advice.
You like the stonk?
 
Going back to original discussion...maybe be able to do more for this guy than an injection or two and an Arizona brace.
you're right.... cold laser treatments! that machine sitting in the corner shouldn't be collecting dust!
 
  • Like
  • Dislike
Reactions: 1 users
Yes, I have one very very large patient population that has been negotiated considerably larger than what the highest dtrack stated Unique situation, but the situation nonetheless.

Imagine if the IHS docs saw what they were paying you to provide service off the rez...
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Imagine if the IHS docs saw what they were paying you to provide service off the rez...
Not sure what you are referring to my friend.
 
Not sure what you are referring to my friend.

R.045f82b40fa57073b0f0c4392e9e4648
 
  • Haha
Reactions: 1 user
If I was in PP, I would laser a lot of toenails. Just saying.


In demand, all cash, virtually no side effects, no risks, time efficient, no 3rd party to ask for charts or money back !! all the qualities of a high ticket item... one just needs to be honest about how effective it is with the pt all let them make the choice weighed against their other options
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
In demand, all cash, virtually no side effects, no risks, time efficient, no 3rd party to ask for charts or money back !! all the qualities of a high ticket item... one just needs to be honest about how effective it is with the pt all let them make the choice weighed against their other options
Honest as in tell them its pretty much a big scam? Because thats what it is...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
I've been reading people's websites (anecdotal) and I would in general describe their enthusiasm as greater than supported by the literature.


My MA the other day asked me if I wanted her to start pushing more people to our pain laser (I did not buy it and only one of my patients has ever used it). Whenever I see someone who tried it I often end up cringing - misdiagnosis or wrong surgery. I saw as a same day a patient who had "muscle pain" with 10 sessions of laser. Garbage tissue. Non-palpable pulses. Referred to cardiology - severe PVD. Another recent one - a cheilectomy that very clearly should have been a fusion. Very frustrating.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I've been reading people's websites (anecdotal) and I would in general describe their enthusiasm as greater than supported by the literature.


My MA the other day asked me if I wanted her to start pushing more people to our pain laser (I did not buy it and only one of my patients has ever used it). Whenever I see someone who tried it I often end up cringing - misdiagnosis or wrong surgery. I saw as a same day a patient who had "muscle pain" with 10 sessions of laser. Garbage tissue. Non-palpable pulses. Referred to cardiology - severe PVD. Another recent one - a cheilectomy that very clearly should have been a fusion. Very frustrating.
WIth the exception of opthomology my opinion anything laser is a scam.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
WIth the exception of opthomology my opinion anything laser is a scam.

It has its applications in Dermatology. Tattoo removal for example. And the laser we use (erroneously) for fungal nails is FDA approved for Dental procedures. Whitening the teeth, I think.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
WIth the exception of opthomology my opinion anything laser is a scam.


and by your logic anyone could label our whole profession as a "scam "... even the "msk podiatry" most patients will get better on their own if they just RICE and take OTC nsaids .. what exactly is it that we do that others cant ?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
and by your logic anyone could label our whole profession as a "scam "... even the "msk podiatry" most patients will get better on their own if they just RICE and take OTC nsaids .. what exactly is it that we do that others cant ?
How is selling people a laser that is almost guarenteed to cost several thousand dollars and almost guarenteed to not work a fair comparrison to something that actually might work? I really dont follow what youre saying.

And for ignorance. Im going to throw that back at you. Youre ignorant if you think youre changing the world with your toenail laser. That things a scam but some people cant see past the dollar signs attached to it.

$30 course terbinafine much more effective, cost friendly, and well tolerated by patients.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
It has its applications in Dermatology. Tattoo removal for example. And the laser we use (erroneously) for fungal nails is FDA approved for Dental procedures. Whitening the teeth, I think.
Tattoo laser is a good example. I agree thats something that works.

OTC dental whitening is pretty effective and cheaper. I admit I have no idea how effective dental whitening lasers are. But I got mine pearly white with the crest strips.

If any doctor other than an opthomologist wants to laser (or tattoo guy) me with something that is not covered by insurance im going to decline. Because its not likely to give the results attached to the price tag.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
$30 course terbinafine much more effective, cost friendly, and well tolerated by patients.
You're saying that you don't scare inform your patients about the risk of hepatotoxicity into selling telling them about why they must choose laser and formula 3?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
How is selling people a laser that is almost guarenteed to cost several thousand dollars and almost guarenteed to not work a fair comparrison to something that actually might work? I really dont follow what youre saying.

And for ignorance. Im going to throw that back at you. Youre ignorant if you think youre changing the world with your toenail laser. That things a scam but some people cant see past the dollar signs attached to it.

$30 course terbinafine much more effective, cost friendly, and well tolerated by patients.

We charge about 100 bucks for the laser, not "thousands", your pricing is outdated from like 10 years ago ... we dont try to stick it to patients, its just another option we provide... most patients already come in anti-lamisil and dont want to take medication.. they have done research online and have read how it can kill the liver... even after a thorough explanation of how safe it really is they are still not convinced and want a non invasive option ..... this is the trend in general now
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
You're saying that you don't scare inform your patients about the risk of hepatotoxicity into selling telling them about why they must choose laser and formula 3?

Now, now. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. You inform the patient of their choices and let them decide. If you have a laser, which I personally don't know of anyone that does anymore, it is a safe option for your patient. Effective? Not so much.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Now, now. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. You inform the patient of their choices and let them decide. If you have a laser, which I personally don't know of anyone that does anymore, it is a safe option for your patient. Effective? Not so much.
Effective, if you're also taking Lamisil at the same time :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Effective, if you're also taking Lamisil at the same time :)
don't forget that they should also be purchasing the UV shoe sterilizer from you or shoe cleaner spray along with getting them a compound foot soak Rx that you have mailed to their house. I also hear there are tea tree oil nail polishes that you can offer them so you can kill the fungus but keep the nails pretty.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
don't forget that they should also be purchasing the UV shoe sterilizer from you or shoe cleaner spray along with getting them a compound foot soak Rx that you have mailed to their house. I also hear there are tea tree oil nail polishes that you can offer them so you can kill the fungus but keep the nails pretty.

I honestly feel that many of these more, ummmmm, holistic approaches to podiatry, are becoming a thing of the past. The new generation is not buying the BS. At least I hope that's the case.
 
Thats awesome you do it for $100 a treatment. That's fair and at not robbery - even tho it wont work ;).

Around here (and what I have seen in the past) the providers charge about 1k a treatment. The guy up the road gives A "bonus" 4th treatment free of charge if the first 3 did not work in an attempt to keep his patients happy. I know this because I see these people after they failed the laser. Those patients come into my office with 1/4" thick toenails and wonder why it didnt work. That DPM does not have a good reputation over the laser. A lot of people upset and I dont blame them. Especially when I give them a relatively benign medication previously avoided due to scare techniques and their nails significantly improve.

I try to be as honest as possible in my practice (as I am sure most of us are). Patient trust over short term gains is huge and will build a stronger practice in the long run.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Patient trust over short term gains is huge and will build a stronger practice in the long run.
A dissatisfied customer will tell between 9-15 people about their experience. Around 13% of dissatisfied customers tell more than 20 people. – White House Office of Consumer Affairs.

It costs 6 – 7 times more to acquire a new customer than retain an existing one – Bain & Company.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
... Blue Cross lapidus is $1100, ankle fusion is $1700, evans is $1200, ATFL repair $1200.
...if you see these patients above weekly for 90 days that's a hell of a lot of visits...
This is a really good post overall, but I am not sure about this part.

If there is anything that seriously needs weekly f/u (cellulitis, dehiscence, injury during post-op, pain or vasc or issue that needs refer, etc), then you simply break the global and you do get paid for that E&M or any related procedures (I&D blister or wound debride, etc) with -24 mod.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I usually see any post-op patient at:
4-7d for bandage and incision check and XR
~2wks for sutures and XR
~4wks for progress check and XR and DME progression
~2mo for progress and XR and PT and/or orthotics molding (can break E&M for that - unless surgery was plantar fascia)
...and then the global is over.

If they need a cast (basically any RRA), then it's every 2-3wks for XR and cast. If they use a CAM boot, then you got that $ and you still get the XRs. The point is: all of those visits above get at least a bit of trickle income except for maybe the first two visits that are incision care for a soft tissue procedure (neuroma, plantar fasciotomy, etc) where the XR isn't indicated. So, in other words, basically all f/u post-op visits are making RVUs in some form - even if it's something as simple as an Austin.
 
This is a really good post overall, but I am not sure about this part.

If there is anything that seriously needs weekly f/u (cellulitis, dehiscence, injury during post-op, pain or vasc or issue that needs refer, etc), then you simply break the global and you do get paid for that E&M or any related procedures (I&D blister or wound debride, etc) with -24 mod.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I usually see any post-op patient at:
4-7d for bandage and incision check and XR
~2wks for sutures and XR
~4wks for progress check and XR and DME progression
~2mo for progress and XR and PT and/or orthotics molding (can break E&M for that - unless surgery was plantar fascia)
...and then the global is over.

If they need a cast (basically any RRA), then it's every 2-3wks for XR and cast. If they use a CAM boot, then you got that $ and you still get the XRs. The point is: all of those visits above get at least a bit of trickle income except for maybe the first two visits that are incision care for a soft tissue procedure (neuroma, plantar fasciotomy, etc) where the XR isn't indicated. So, in other words, basically all f/u post-op visits are making RVUs in some form - even if it's something as simple as an Austin.

What percentage of your RRA/Complex patients are actually compliant and don't need to be handled with kid gloves so they don't start threatening to or outright sue you? If you deal with a lot of Medicaid or community clinic patients (which also are the ones that tend to need these procedures, somehow), I would geusstimate, at least, half. And that means late calls at night, and lots of office visits taking up space that could be used for paying patients.

For the basic forefoot type stuff and even some of the less involved rearfoot procedures like Retros, Kidners, Peroneal repairs, Scopes, Braustroms and the like, I would absolutely agree with you. But here's the thing. You start catering to those "big cases" people love to talk about here, your practice will start heading in that direction. Next thing you know, half your cases are the complex stuff, like Charcot Recons, Pilon Fractures, Triples, Pan Talars, Ankle Replacement, etc. Which is really what your OP is aimed towards.

THIS is precisely where the argument about big cases making good money falls apart. Yep, I see a post op bunion exactly 3 times before the global expires. Quick dressing change, then suture removal, back in a shoe and then a few weeks later for f/u. Sometimes that's it.

Don't get me wrong. If you design a group practice properly, this isn't even a consideration. You have one or two people at most who do that stuff, and the rest either only do bread and butter and general office podiatry, or no surgery at all, and you're golden. But any thoughts of doing this in solo private practice....yeah....okay. And even in group setting, eventually someone will start poking at those numbers. Time to payment ratio is very low the more complex the case gets. No one can argue differently. Sorry.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
don't forget that they should also be purchasing the UV shoe sterilizer from you or shoe cleaner spray along with getting them a compound foot soak Rx that you have mailed to their house. I also hear there are tea tree oil nail polishes that you can offer them so you can kill the fungus but keep the nails pretty.
Sounds like a clinic I worked at in the past. All that same stuff got pushed…

Around here (and what I have seen in the past) the providers charge about 1k a treatment. The guy up the road gives A "bonus" 4th treatment free of charge if the first 3 did not work in an attempt to keep his patients happy.
One of my old jobs had a per nail pricing structure where if you did all 10 it was around $1000 for the 3 treatment package. And a 4th treatment was provided if the patient felt like they weren’t all the way better after the 3 treatments. Which of course they all got because nobody thought their nails were great after 3 laser treatments over 3-4 months.

Oral antifungals have a 70-80% efficacy rate. The laser isn’t close. If you wouldn’t let them pay $400 for a little bottle of Jublia I’m not sure why you’d let them pay $400 for laser treatments that have similarly low efficacy rates. Well, I guess if you own the laser already…
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Yep, I see a post op bunion exactly 3 times before the global expires. Quick dressing change, then suture removal, back in a shoe and then a few weeks later for f/u. Sometimes that's it.

That sounds like my flatfoot recon post-op schedule…

bunions I’ve started to see back at 12-13 days for suture removal and first post op, then again at 6 weeks, then again outside of the global 8 weeks later. So I’ve got those down to 2 post-ops.

Honestly toes with k wires that need removal around 4 weeks are the only procedures I tend to see more than 3 times in the global.
 
That sounds like my flatfoot recon post-op schedule…

bunions I’ve started to see back at 12-13 days for suture removal and first post op, then again at 6 weeks, then again outside of the global 8 weeks later. So I’ve got those down to 2 post-ops.

Honestly toes with k wires that need removal around 4 weeks are the only procedures I tend to see more than 3 times in the global.
Just tell them to yank the k wires at home, problem solved.
 
This is a really good post overall, but I am not sure about this part.

If there is anything that seriously needs weekly f/u (cellulitis, dehiscence, injury during post-op, pain or vasc or issue that needs refer, etc), then you simply break the global and you do get paid for that E&M or any related procedures (I&D blister or wound debride, etc) with -24 mod.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I usually see any post-op patient at:
4-7d for bandage and incision check and XR
~2wks for sutures and XR
~4wks for progress check and XR and DME progression
~2mo for progress and XR and PT and/or orthotics molding (can break E&M for that - unless surgery was plantar fascia)
...and then the global is over.

If they need a cast (basically any RRA), then it's every 2-3wks for XR and cast. If they use a CAM boot, then you got that $ and you still get the XRs. The point is: all of those visits above get at least a bit of trickle income except for maybe the first two visits that are incision care for a soft tissue procedure (neuroma, plantar fasciotomy, etc) where the XR isn't indicated. So, in other words, basically all f/u post-op visits are making RVUs in some form - even if it's something as simple as an Austin.

Why so many X-rays? I do X-rays at 8 or 12 weeks and add more if it needs more time to consolidate. Really only need more films if there is injury or concern.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Why so many X-rays? I do X-rays at 8 or 12 weeks and add more if it needs more time to consolidate. Really only need more films if there is injury or concern.
obviously you don't get paid for xrays...but yeah I don't order a lot of xrays, some because unnecessary and some because will slow down my flow. Sometimes I order because I need to stall a patient...now that board certified i see basically no reason to get xrays until you are making them weightbearing after a surgery. This assumes no falls, pain etc. Sure someone may argue that for liability reasons not a good idea. And of course poor practice management...


Assuming you get good immediate postops
 
Last edited:
I generally don’t get X-rays until something has changed or is about to change, and some final pics after union/fusion. If I pull a pin I have them get X-rays after. If we are deciding on wether ready to transition to WB I get X-rays (though I don’t know how often X-ray results actually change my protocol). I’ll usually get something around 3 months out to assure that there’s bony consolidation and maintained correction.

So yeah, 6 weeks and 10-12 weeks and that’s it. If I’m pulling a wire at 4 weeks I’ll get em then, but then they won’t typically get 6 week films, so it kind of all evens out. No immediate post ops, just good final fluoro shots.

I think I get a whole .16 wRVU for reading the X-rays we take in clinic…so not quite $9…
 
I get xrays 3, 6, and 12 weeks for pretty much all cases unless problem or reported fall.
 
I generally don’t get X-rays until something has changed or is about to change, and some final pics after union/fusion. If I pull a pin I have them get X-rays after. If we are deciding on wether ready to transition to WB I get X-rays (though I don’t know how often X-ray results actually change my protocol). I’ll usually get something around 3 months out to assure that there’s bony consolidation and maintained correction.

So yeah, 6 weeks and 10-12 weeks and that’s it. If I’m pulling a wire at 4 weeks I’ll get em then, but then they won’t typically get 6 week films, so it kind of all evens out. No immediate post ops, just good final fluoro shots.

I think I get a whole .16 wRVU for reading the X-rays we take in clinic…so not quite $9…
Yeah the value of "reading x-rays" is in higher E and M billing
 
I'm gonna reply to Feli at some point (not trying to blow him off), but they've added a bunch more text to the E&M document and I'm not certain x-rays count towards E&M anymore (EDIT: they perhaps count differently depending on if you are looking at someone else's work verse if you ordered them in your own office and interpreted them yourself). These are from 3 separate places in the E&M document and were added after March as clarification. I had not seen them until today. https://www.ama-assn.org/system/files/2019-06/cpt-office-prolonged-svs-code-changes.pdf

*Anything in blue/underline is new in th edocument.

Do not count time spent on the following: § the performance of other services that are reported separately

The ordering and actual performance and/or interpretation of diagnostic tests/studies during a patient encounter are not included in determining the levels of E/M services when the professional interpretation of those tests/studies is reported separately by the physician or other qualified health care professional reporting the E/M service. Tests that do not require separate interpretation (eg, tests that are results only) and are analyzed as part of MDM do not count as an independent interpretation, but may be counted as ordered or reviewed for selecting an MDM level.

Any service for which the professional component is separately reported by the physician or other qualified health care professional reporting the E/M services is not counted as a data element ordered, reviewed, analyzed, or independently interpreted for the purposes of determining the level of MDM.
 
I'm not certain x-rays count towards E&M anymore (EDIT: they perhaps count differently depending on if you are looking at someone else's work verse if you ordered them in your own office and interpreted them yourself)

correct. Independent interpretation of outside images will be a data point that can go towards medical decision making (ie E/M). When you are billing for the reading of the in house imaging (and it is not sent to a radiologist to be read), it does not count as an “independent interpretation” data point.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I x-ray every hour on the hour. Every toe, metatarsal, midfoot, hindfoot, ankle, leg. I'll x-ray your mother and she will love it. I'm billing for it too. yup
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 3 users
I x-ray every hour on the hour. Every toe, metatarsal, midfoot, hindfoot, ankle, leg. I'll x-ray your mother and she will love it. I'm billing for it too. yup
radiologist is getting paid to read bro, you know that. when they fire you again, you ordering lots of xrays won't save you.
 
radiologist is getting paid to read bro, you know that. when they fire you again, you ordering lots of xrays won't save you.
I get RVU credit for it. You know that. Don't ask me how to fix a bunion again on our group text chat anymore. It's embarrassing bro. Just like that random podiatrist who posts on PMnews looking for surgical technique recs for their case. Too much time in the sticks and you have forgotten how to surgesize. What would Mendo say?
 
  • Haha
Reactions: 1 user
Top