Biochem requirement - 200 vs 300 lvl

[deleted307836]

For schools that require biochem, and don't state a needed level, is it implicit that the requirement refers to the 300 level course?

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[inycepoo]

For schools that require biochem, and don't state a needed level, is it implicit that the requirement refers to the 300 level course?

Can't tell if serious question given post count and time since joining SDN.....

By which I mean that course offerings and numbers differ across universities so much that your question is misguided. Just because biochem is offered at the 300-level at your school doesn't mean the same thing can't be offered as a 200- or 400-level at other places. At some colleges (like mine), the numbering system doesn't reflect difficulty, but rather grouping of fields within the subject instead.

In short, any biochem class would count if it's biochem. No adcom member is going to know your specific course for your specific college and judge based on that.

 

[deleted307836]

Maybe I've somehow managed to slip by without catching on to this, but it's been my assumption the past few years that "upper-level courses" are 3xx- courses at the vast majority of schools, and that "lower-division" courses are 1-2xx-.

I would think level would certainly matter in this instance. Some schools have a 100 level biochem course; I highly doubt that would count for such a requirement. I think the difference between a 200-300 level course is perhaps a bit more nuanced.

Your school sounds unique in its system. Again, it's my assumption that one can tell, at the vast majority of schools, whether a course is upper- or lower-division by the course code.

(Wait, you're right, totally not a serious question! )

 

[inycepoo]

Maybe I've somehow managed to slip by without catching on to this, but it's been my assumption the past few years that "upper-level courses" are 3xx- courses at the vast majority of schools, and that "lower-division" courses are 1-2xx-.

I would think level would certainly matter in this instance. Some schools have a 100 level biochem course; I highly doubt that would count for such a requirement. I think the difference between a 200-300 level course is perhaps a bit more nuanced.

Your school sounds unique in its system. Again, it's my assumption that one can tell, at the vast majority of schools, whether a course is upper- or lower-division by the course code.

(Wait, you're right, totally not a serious question! )

Eh, again, I think there's too much variation for people to really tell. 200-level bio classes at my school are already the "advanced" ones, and there are barely any 400-level classes for God knows what reasons (and they tend to be small seminars dissecting research papers, so they're actually easier than most other bio classes).

But yes, a 100-level biochem class probably wouldn't cut it unless it was the only level offered at the school, but I've never seen such a thing myself so I can't comment.

And idk, man, there are people with 2k posts trolling around with seemingly simple questions like this, so I didn't want to end up replying to a troll...

 

[deleted307836]

If anyone has any thoughts, here's some more info...

The 200 level course is intended for non-biology majors and ochem is not a prereq. It includes "health sciences" applications.

The 300 level course is your traditional biochem class that bio majors would take; ochem is a pre-req.

 

[deleted307836]

And idk, man, there are people with 2k posts trolling around with seemingly simple questions like this, so I didn't want to end up replying to a troll...

I really don't see how this could ever be considered a troll thread, and I've spent quite a bit of time on this site. To each his/her own...

 

[tantacles]

If anyone has any thoughts, here's some more info...

The 200 level course is intended for non-biology majors and ochem is not a prereq. It includes "health sciences" applications.

The 300 level course is your traditional biochem class that bio majors would take; ochem is a pre-req.

The admissions staff reading your application won't have any idea what that means. Numbering systems vary widely by school. At my undergraduate institution, for example, all undergraduate level courses were double digits, and all graduate courses were triple-digits. That was the only numbering pattern that existed, and I guarantee that zero admissions faculty had any idea which of my courses were which. They looked at the trend of my grades, and that's it.

 

[inycepoo]

If anyone has any thoughts, here's some more info...

The 200 level course is intended for non-biology majors and ochem is not a prereq. It includes "health sciences" applications.

The 300 level course is your traditional biochem class that bio majors would take; ochem is a pre-req.

Absolutely no one is going to know that. Hence, it does not matter. Take the one you want.

 

[kyamh]

Absolutely no one is going to know that. Hence, it does not matter. Take the one you want.

Unless...OP gets a committee letter of recommendation and they comment of the rigor of his/her course choices. I know that my committee does that.

 

[inycepoo]

Unless...OP gets a committee letter of recommendation and they comment of the rigor of his/her course choices. I know that my committee does that.

True, but it is in the committee's interest to write positive letters for their applicants so that the school's stats can be boosted. Hence, I am well aware that committees would write honestly about the rigor of a student's curriculum, but am more skeptical of their revealing all the subtle differences between an easier and slightly more difficult course offering, such as the subtle one OP brings up.

This is pure speculation, of course, but I've seen the core biophysics course here for the biochem major at my school described as "challenging," and I can tell you it is most definitely not (and it's not 'cause I'm "smart," either, 'cause I'm not lol). Also, we have biochem offered in both the biochem and biology departments. The former is much more intense and in-depth than the latter (even if you only take half of the sequence and not the full year), but I doubt my committee will write "Oh, so as a biology major, Terrell Johnson could have taken the biochem department one to challenge himself, but chose not to and took the more lax biology version one instead." Instead, they would more likely write about the intellectual risk he took by taking biochem in sophomore year (which ain't really special because 80% of premeds here do that) and blah blah blah, etc.

 

[kyamh]

Yeah, in general I agree with inycepoo - no one cares that much...the grade is more important. Actually, the timing of the course would be the most important thing for me - I would much rather take a course that fits nicely in my schedule and has a good professor if I have a chance to choose

 

[inycepoo]

Yeah, in general I agree with inycepoo - no one cares that much...the grade is more important. Actually, the timing of the course would be the most important thing for me - I would much rather take a course that fits nicely in my schedule and has a good professor if I have a chance to choose

Also, the fact that you can learn and learn WELL is the most important thing. Do that, and the grade will come naturally. Don't short-change or be unreasonable with yourself, though.

 

[Blackxp]

This differs greatly among universities. The most typical system I have noticed is that 100 level are introductory, 200 level are sophomore level courses, 300 level are junior level, and 400 level are typically upper-level/senior courses. This changes drastically between institutions though.

I actually had the decision between a 300 level and 400 level course when it came to biochemistry. Typically the course description or title can also be a giveaway. For instance the 300 level course was a single semester and was deemed "Introduction to Biochemistry" while the 400 level course was a part of a full year course series and labeled "General Biochemistry".

Would this mean that the 300 level course at my institution is equivalent to your 300 level course? Of course not. I think many admissions committee members know this and will look more deeply into the courses.

In the end I would gauge it based on a few things.
1: Higher Level courses (content-wise) are usually more in depth. So as a result you might learn more from the course.
2: Higher Level courses are usually seen as more rigorous (Help prove that you can handle a larger course-load).
3: Look into who teaches the course. The lower level course might have a better professor and you might learn more as a result despite it being introductory level.
4: Look at what else you are juggling at the same time. This could include many different things such as the MCAT, applying to medical schools, other high level courses taken at the same time, job, extracurriculars, family, etc.
5: Time each course is offered. Sometimes one just fits in your schedule better than the other. Allows you to do other important things with your free time such as studying and volunteering.

Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. But they are things to consider. As long as you are making the decision for genuine purposes I do not see an issue. I do not see an admissions committee member looking at your biochemistry course with distaste since its a lower level version if you are strong elsewhere and used your extra time efficiently. If they see you taking easier courses over and over throughout your undergraduate years then you might have a problem. Such students that consistently take all of their prerequisites at a community college (despite going to a four year college at the time) then I think admissions committees can see that.

Good Luck! !

 

[inycepoo]

This differs greatly among universities. The most typical system I have noticed is that 100 level are introductory, 200 level are sophomore level courses, 300 level are junior level, and 400 level are typically upper-level/senior courses. This changes drastically between institutions though.

I actually had the decision between a 300 level and 400 level course when it came to biochemistry. Typically the course description or title can also be a giveaway. For instance the 300 level course was a single semester and was deemed "Introduction to Biochemistry" while the 400 level course was a part of a full year course series and labeled "General Biochemistry".

Well f***, adcoms better not look at my transcript like that. EVERY (well, almost) class here is like "Intro to Rat****" so we're like "OH AIN'T THAT BAD." Then you finish the class and you're like "yo son ain't no way was that just an intro, you good for nothing liar. I could probably ace a grad class in this topic now." (Side story: after my "intro health policy" course, I took the MPH version of the class and got the easiest A in my life, albeit from a different POV.)



/rant

 

[QuantumQuark]

Absolutely no one is going to know that. Hence, it does not matter. Take the one you want.

This isn't the case at my school. We have a similar system as OP described where the 200 level biochem course is essentially for nursing majors and they specifically mention it doesn't count towards a med school biochem requirement. Instead you have to take the 400 level class. Idk about your school OP but I would talk to your pre-med office because if you went to my school and took that 200 level class it wouldn't count and would be a waste of time.

 

[tantacles]

This isn't the case at my school. We have a similar system as OP described where the 200 level biochem course is essentially for nursing majors and they specifically mention it doesn't count towards a med school biochem requirement. Instead you have to take the 400 level class. Idk about your school OP but I would talk to your pre-med office because if you went to my school and took that 200 level class it wouldn't count and would be a waste of time.

Wow. Your pre-med committee is bitchy, then. No one would know otherwise.

 

[487806]

For schools that require biochem, and don't state a needed level, is it implicit that the requirement refers to the 300 level course?

No, it isn't implicit. Either 200 or 300 level course suffices.

This isn't the case at my school. We have a similar system as OP described where the 200 level biochem course is essentially for nursing majors and they specifically mention it doesn't count towards a med school biochem requirement. Instead you have to take the 400 level class. Idk about your school OP but I would talk to your pre-med office because if you went to my school and took that 200 level class it wouldn't count and would be a waste of time.

I'd disregard what your premed adviser/office is arguing. And OP, DO NOT CONSULT YOUR PREMED OFFICE. You will encounter gross misinformation. In general, SDN is more reliable and up-to-date in these matters compared to premed advisers.

 

[QuantumQuark]

No, it isn't implicit. Either 200 or 300 level course suffices.



I'd disregard what your premed adviser/office is arguing. And OP, DO NOT CONSULT YOUR PREMED OFFICE. You will encounter gross misinformation. In general, SDN is more reliable and up-to-date in these matters compared to premed advisers.

In the end do whatever makes you happy.

OHSU requires Biochem and their site says:

"One course each of general chemistry, organic chemistry and biochemistry. Laboratories are recommended. (Since undergraduate curricula vary from school to school, in fulfilling this requirement it is implied that the required prerequisite sequences in general and organic chemistry will have been completed in order to take the biochemistry course.)"

The OP stated that his school offers a biochem course that doesn't require OChem and OHSU says that they assume you are taking a Biochem course that requires OChem as a prereq. Therefore in my understanding a biochem course that doesn't require OChem doesn't count to fulfill a premed requirement. That is also what my undergrad requires but it may be different at other schools. I would just spend some time to find out first and not go off of SDN knowledge personally.

 

[deleted307836]

QQ, thanks for the info on OHSU and what they state for biochem. I think that answers my question.

 

[deleted307836]

Absolutely no one is going to know that. Hence, it does not matter. Take the one you want.

Well, the course title basically indicates as much.

 

[Aerus]

At my school, below 100 is lower division. Above 100 is upper division. 200 is graduate school classes. Thus, a class like Psych 101 would actually be an upper division class.

In the end, the number does not matter. Anyone who says so has no idea what they're talking about. A committee letter may reveal the difficulty of a class, but no committee is ever going to say anything negative about you, so this numbering system shouldn't ever be a concern.

 

[inycepoo]

at my school, below 100 is lower division. Above 100 is upper division. 200 is graduate school classes. Thus, a class like psych 101 would actually be an upper division class.

in the end, the number does not matter. Anyone who says so has no idea what they're talking about. a committee letter may reveal the difficulty of a class, but no committee is ever going to say anything negative about you, so this numbering system shouldn't ever be a concern.

+111111