TenaciousGirl

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(preface: I did do a search for this, sorry if there is an identical older thread that I didn't come across...)

So, whenever I have substantial time off from school, I start mapping out my future. Can anyone relate? Yes, I'm one of those students who plans out my schedule as soon as the classes for next term are posted :)

Anywho, I'd like to be board certified in the future. I've heard some differences of opinion on this ... thoughts? Does anyone think becoming board certified is unessential or pointless?

For those of you who are interested, I recently found out that the ABPP has an "early entry program." I'm not sure how new (or old) this is, but I think it's pretty cool for those of us looking to be board certified. This is what the ABPP has to say about the early entry program, "This program permits qualified students and other pre-licensure individuals to begin the steps toward board certification in professional psychology early in one's career, and starts the process of mentoring and progression toward board certification through ABPP at a reduced fee. Submission of the early entry application will start the process and ABPP will 'bank' your credentials as you complete your training experience. No need to try and gather together all your materials at one time years from now -submit them as they are completed and ABPP will update your application file..."

For further reading or to look at the app you can visit
http://www.abpp.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageID=3299
 

edieb

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Unless you want to be boarded for your own benefit, don't waste your time. I have heard time and time again (and read on the ABPP website) that boarding doesn't do anything to generate extra income and so few people outside (and inside) psychology know anything about psychology boarding, that it won't garner much respect there either.
 

TenaciousGirl

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Unless you want to be boarded for your own benefit, don't waste your time. I have heard time and time again (and read on the ABPP website) that boarding doesn't do anything to generate extra income and so few people outside (and inside) psychology know anything about psychology boarding, that it won't garner much respect there either.

I haven't read anything like that on the ABPP website ... do you remember where you saw it? I'd be interested in reading it. So few things in our field qualify someone to get a pay increase it wouldn't surprise me if being boarded didn't matter in that aspect. I don't think people should become boarded for the sole purpose of a pay increase.
 
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Therapist4Chnge

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It also depends where you want to work, and in what area. The general public may not know what it means, but if you work in academic, a medical school, VA, etc...it matters.

I'm doing the early entry program for ABPP ($25 application fee, instead of $100+), and I think it is a great idea. Considering the competition out there (MSWs, LMHCs, etc), something like this could make a difference.
 

erg923

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i brought up this issue a while back regarding boarding in clinical neuropsychology. Please note the follwing is cut and paste from my thread about neuropsychology (ABBP-CN), not simply ABPP. however, I still hold to much of this sentiment and thought some of it might be relevant to the issue.

My question is relatively simple: Why should I pursue the boarding process once im practicing clinical neuopsychology after post doc? Please note, I am not asking why boarding is good or valuable to a profession (i know all those answers). I am asking why should I do it? What's the payoff? Whats in it for me? Before anyone answers, here are my gripes (they are the gripes of many in my position).

I have yet to hear a compelling argument as to why I would put myself through yet another ordeal in this profession (an another series of tests). I know enough about testing to know that it doesn't "prove" anything. Especially one test, with no follow-up certifications. Am I suppose to belive that this one test ensures the public that I am practicing th most competetly possible? Get real! Furthermore, where is the evidence that boarded practioners are any more competent or otherwise "better" neuopsychologists than the non-boarded ones? Marty Rohling presented some research at NAN several years ago, and from what I recollect, there was no real evidence that boarding has any relationship to being more knowledgable or more competent in your practice. Why should I endure extra stress and pay thousands of dollars in travel and study materials for piece of paper that tells me something I will already know by that time-That I am competent to practice neuropsychology! I thought thats what the 2 year post-doc in neuro was for?!

Like other early career professionals, I have a young family that I want to spend time with - maybe this isn't relevant to the "elders" of the profession, but it's definitely important to me, and I'm going to venture a guess that it's important to the increasingly female demographic of this pofession. After all the hoops and all the moves a family goes through, enough is enough, and I am not in the mood for yet another arbitrary test-so I can join a "club." Especially when I dont see any real benefits to me by joining said "club." The only benefits I can see is that it makes neuropsych look more like a medical model and makes it "appear" united. Obviously its not, because only like 10 percent of neuopsychs are boarded. I'm often offended by the "suck it up" attitude expressed by some in this profession (especially the elder members) that I should just readily sacrifice my money and "family-time" to do all this ABPP-CN stuff......and be damn greatful for the opportunity. How out of touch are these people?

Board certification is a nice idea, but I have yet to see a compelling reason to pursue it. What exactly is the return on my investment here anyway? I care about the profession and future of npsych, but i care about my finances, my wife, and family a even more, and I am not really willing to continue sacrficing them after my Ph.D for some greater good of the profession as a whole. Especially when I'm not even sure boarding adds that much to the profession anyway.
 

TenaciousGirl

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i brought up this issue a while back regarding boarding in clinical neuropsychology. Please note the follwing is cut and paste from my thread about neuropsychology (ABBP-CN), not simply ABPP. however, I still hold to much of this sentiment and thought some of it might be relevant to the issue.

My question is relatively simple: Why should I pursue the boarding process once im practicing clinical neuopsychology after post doc? Please note, I am not asking why boarding is good or valuable to a profession (i know all those answers). I am asking why should I do it? What's the payoff? Whats in it for me? Before anyone answers, here are my gripes (they are the gripes of many in my position).

I have yet to hear a compelling argument as to why I would put myself through yet another ordeal in this profession (an another series of tests). I know enough about testing to know that it doesn't "prove" anything. Especially one test, with no follow-up certifications. Am I suppose to belive that this one test ensures the public that I am practicing th most competetly possible? Get real! Furthermore, where is the evidence that boarded practioners are any more competent or otherwise "better" neuopsychologists than the non-boarded ones? Marty Rohling presented some research at NAN several years ago, and from what I recollect, there was no real evidence that boarding has any relationship to being more knowledgable or more competent in your practice. Why should I endure extra stress and pay thousands of dollars in travel and study materials for piece of paper that tells me something I will already know by that time-That I am competent to practice neuropsychology! I thought thats what the 2 year post-doc in neuro was for?!

Like other early career professionals, I have a young family that I want to spend time with - maybe this isn't relevant to the "elders" of the profession, but it's definitely important to me, and I'm going to venture a guess that it's important to the increasingly female demographic of this pofession. After all the hoops and all the moves a family goes through, enough is enough, and I am not in the mood for yet another arbitrary test-so I can join a "club." Especially when I dont see any real benefits to me by joining said "club." The only benefits I can see is that it makes neuropsych look more like a medical model and makes it "appear" united. Obviously its not, because only like 10 percent of neuopsychs are boarded. I'm often offended by the "suck it up" attitude expressed by some in this profession (especially the elder members) that I should just readily sacrifice my money and "family-time" to do all this ABPP-CN stuff......and be damn greatful for the opportunity. How out of touch are these people?

Board certification is a nice idea, but I have yet to see a compelling reason to pursue it. What exactly is the return on my investment here anyway? I care about the profession and future of npsych, but i care about my finances, my wife, and family a even more, and I am not really willing to continue sacrficing them after my Ph.D for some greater good of the profession as a whole. Especially when I'm not even sure boarding adds that much to the profession anyway.

You go to Stanford, right? What do your profs over there say about it? I would imagine you have some board certified people in your department? Do they think it's a waste of time?

What's the "payoff" ... well, other than the reasons that TPC stated, it probably has more intrinsic value than extrinsic. Getting board certified is also a way for people to stay connected to ongoing education and research in the field. The truth is, very few psychs are boarded because of the fear people have regarding the process of boarding. Furthermore, our field doesn't require boarding like some other areas ... licensed psychs can get a job and work without the question of boarding ever coming up. Of course there are few psychs boarded, because if they can get a job without it ... why do it? I know amazing licensed psychologists who are not boarded. I think it simply comes down to a personal choice, a personal goal, etc.
 

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just add in my thoughts...

I think being certified by ABPP (i.e., ABCN) IS important, especially if you plan on having a private practice and/or working in legal or formal arenas. Just let me pose this thought question: Would you rather seek professional help from someone board certified (as supported by the APA, since the APA does in fact support accreditation) or not board certified?

Personally speaking, a person serving as an expert witness in a court case sounds more compelling when they are accredited than when they are not, and I have seen this (anecdotally of course) where a lawyer on the opposing side will attack an expert (both clinical and clinical-neuro) simply because they lack accreditation.

Just a thought
 

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just add in my thoughts...

I think being certified by ABPP (i.e., ABCN) IS important, especially if you plan on having a private practice and/or working in legal or formal arenas. Just let me pose this thought question: Would you rather seek professional help from someone board certified (as supported by the APA, since the APA does in fact support accreditation) or not board certified?

Personally speaking, a person serving as an expert witness in a court case sounds more compelling when they are accredited than when they are not, and I have seen this (anecdotally of course) where a lawyer on the opposing side will attack an expert (both clinical and clinical-neuro) simply because they lack accreditation.

Just a thought

If you do forensic work...I'd definitely get it because lawyers will go after anything, and the lay person doesn't understand the difference, but they'll hear, "OMG...he isn't even boarded!!!"

Of course, I'll limit this to ABPP and ABCN, as some of the vanity boards may not offer much in credibility.
 

erg923

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just add in my thoughts...

I think being certified by ABPP (i.e., ABCN) IS important, especially if you plan on having a private practice and/or working in legal or formal arenas. Just let me pose this thought question: Would you rather seek professional help from someone board certified (as supported by the APA, since the APA does in fact support accreditation) or not board certified?

Personally speaking, a person serving as an expert witness in a court case sounds more compelling when they are accredited than when they are not, and I have seen this (anecdotally of course) where a lawyer on the opposing side will attack an expert (both clinical and clinical-neuro) simply because they lack accreditation.

Just a thought

I think that kinda makes my point..here. Of course we we would rather have our grandma evaluated by the board certified guy/gal. But since there is actually no evidence that this in anyway ensures a higher quality of service to poor ole grandma, what difference does it really make? Its PR without any emiprical support behind it.
 
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AlaskanJustin

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I think that kinda makes my point..here. Of course we we would rather have our grandma evaluated by the board certified guy/gal. But since there is actually no evidence that this in anyway ensures a higher quality of service to poor ole grandma, what difference does it really make? Its PR without any emiprical support behind it.

i couldnt tell ya if there is any empirical support behind it, never looked too much into it, other than to know that its an extensive testing process, similar to medicine, and being board certified in medicine has been ok for many years now? Not sure its a problem (certification) maybe just something that could be strengthened and enforced?
 

erg923

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Work samples, and 1 written and 1 oral exam. no follow-up or recerts. Extensive? debatable. Time consuming, expensive, and tells me something I already know by that time, yes.
And yes, your right, it been ok in medicine for years now. However, when did psychology start following a medical model of education and training and why is that model now some kind of gold standard?

Once again the science of the obvious makes things more complicated and divided that they need to be. Why not just have a seperate license for those practicing neuropsychology and legally protect the term "neuropsychologist" similar to what Louisiana?
 

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Once again the science of the obvious makes things more complicated and divided that they need to be. Why not just have a seperate license for those practicing neuropsychology and legally protect the term "neuropsychologist" similar to what Louisiana?

Unfortunately the way gov't works is not suited for logical, sound, and rational solutions. To make it a protected term may be a bit easier than having a separate license. We can't jump to a separate license without a bunch of steps in between. I think boarding can be one of those steps. It establishes a separate level of training, and it will allow for differentiation. From there an attempt can be made to show the uniqueness and necessity for a separate licensure. It would take a great deal of time and some money to provide "proof" of the expertise. If that can be packaged right and presented to a willing legislature, then it may have a shot. Personally, I think it will take digging up some "bad" apples in our own field to build some public support.If I were heading up the push, I'd look towards unqualified professional sweat shops that crank our neuro reports for kids and/or the disadvantaged. It is a dicey approach, but unless the constituents of the state make an issue out of it, I don't think supporters will be able to get enough pull to get someone to sponsor it and actually push it.
 

TenaciousGirl

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Work samples, and 1 written and 1 oral exam. no follow-up or recerts.

It seems one of the issues you have with board certification is that the board grants certification and then doesn't follow up with those diplomats to see if they still qualify (basically) to be boarded. Is this right? What if the board did inact follow-ups or recerts?

You bring up a valid point here. I've wondered before why there isn't a follow up process. Even in medicine, say, in anesthesiology (because that's the most recent board I've looked at) there is a possibility of the board certification expiring. I'm not trying to compare our two fields and say that we should have a process identical to medicine, just using it as an example because they have a boarding system.
 

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Unless you want to be boarded for your own benefit, don't waste your time. I have heard time and time again (and read on the ABPP website) that boarding doesn't do anything to generate extra income and so few people outside (and inside) psychology know anything about psychology boarding, that it won't garner much respect there either.

Not entirely true. If you go to work for the Department of Defense and you have ABPP credentials, you get a $400,000 sign on bonus.
 
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