Bottom 20

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dshnay

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People here always keep talking about top 20 schools but what about bottom 20? Does anyone actually know which schools are actually on that list?
 

MonkeyNuts!

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If you pay for US News u can see past top 50
 

PeripateticMD

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Does anyone know when they're coming up with the new rankings? or are those the new rankings?? nothing has changed if they are...
 

HumbleMD

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I doubt many rankings go that low. But by consensus, what schools do people consider the lowest of the low?
 

Doctor~Detroit

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dunno. "bottom twenty" just makes me think "big booty." don't go there, rankings.
 
W

Wizard of Oz

Does anyone know when they're coming up with the new rankings? or are those the new rankings?? nothing has changed if they are...

Yes I'm sure that they've changed substantially since the last time that they published them. :thumbup:

I know that I've been waiting on the edge of my seat. Did Wash up their MCAT average enough to creep back to the top since they have tumbled so much in the last few admission cycles? Will another pesky DO school push somebody out of the top 50 for primary care? Is somebody lucky enough to be able to change the incredibly important rank that they have advertised on their webpage? Will UTSW have to go out and buy another retired Noble Laureate to finally jump past arch nemesis Baylor? I'm so excited that I can't wait!

We should all make our own picks like March Madness. I've got Hopkins over Harvard by 0.2 reputation points this time. I heard that Harvard graduated somebody last year who (GASP) went into family medicine...

I doubt many rankings go that low. But by consensus, what schools do people consider the lowest of the low?

My school! Yeah it's so bad here that they just this year decided to let the bottom half of the class graduate with an MD. Yeah before they said that since it was in the bottom 20 according to USN that some of the SDN crowd were complaining about them actually letting some of us idiots become doctors. You know how important it is to be in the top 105 and all.
 

DreamLover

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This is a funny thread...because we all know what they call the person who graduated last in their class at the lowest ranked medical school in the country....doctor :)

to the OP, I don't think there's anyway to find out that exact info...it would all be mere speculation and very biased (depending on who it came from)...just apply broadly and good luck!
 

chad5871

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I heard that Harvard graduated somebody last year who (GASP) went into family medicine...

Have you read the book "White Coat?" It's all about the journey of a medical student at Harvard. At the end of the book she talks about match day and the number of students that decided to go into Family Practice/Primary Care was suprisingly high. A good portion of the students also chose Pediatrics and Internal Medicine. Perhaps this was just an anomaly for her class, but I thought it was interesting.
 

PeripateticMD

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Well, in Boston, depending on who you talk to, the general answer (maybe 60%) would say that BU is the lowest of the Boston Medical Schools. In CA, people may tell you that Irvine is the lowest of CA medical schools (again, by maybe 60%). Those are the only ones I know about from experience. I don't think either are bad at all. I guess it's just relative to their peer schools.
 

melissainsd

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This thread is just a great way to piss people off. No one wants to hear the school they will be attending is the "lowest of the low". For everyone that calls a school their "back up" there are plenty of people that would love to go there (and tons that applied and didn't get in). More applicants than med school spots = no true back up schools.

I doubt you can find an unbiased list.
 

soeagerun2or

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Are we talking only US Allopathic schools or all schools? US ALLO>US DO>Caribbean (obviously).

Otherwise the bottom would be:

Mercer, Northeastern Ohio, Marshall, South Carolina, Eastern Carolina, Eastern Virginia, Southern Illinois, Texas Tech, Rosalind Franklin, North Dakota, Wright State, Hawaii, West Virginia, Southern Alabama, Albany, Loma Linda, Toledo, Nevada, LSU-Shrevport, and Texas A&M.


[I used a similar methodology as US News for Research Rankings of readily available information from the school's websites and MSAR: acceptance ratio (in/out of state)/MCAT/GPA, student body size, faculty size, NIH funding, endowment, tuition (in/out of state).]

Also, I'm sorry if you're amazed your school is on this list. Additionally, primary care rankings have nothing to do with research rankings (which are more reliable when the majority of people reference "top" schools). Perhaps you can use your negative energy to make an effort to pull your school off of it.
 
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alwaysaangel

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BigKurz

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Are we talking only US Allopathic schools or all schools? US ALLO>US DO>Caribbean (obviously).

Otherwise the bottom would be:

Mercer, Northeastern Ohio, Marshall, South Carolina, Eastern Carolina, Eastern Virginia, Southern Illinois, Texas Tech, Rosalind Franklin, North Dakota, Wright State, Hawaii, West Virginia, Southern Alabama, Albany, Loma Linda, Toledo, Nevada, LSU-Shrevport, and Texas A&M.

So did you just pull these off the top of your head or what?

I know we've already said this is a strange post because no allopathic medical schools should be considered "bad," but I'd still like to know what standards you're using. For example, East Carolina--one of your bottom 20--was ranked #6 in the US News Primary Care rankings--tied w/ Duke. Just some food for thought...
 
8

8744

Are we talking only US Allopathic schools or all schools? US ALLO>US DO>Caribbean (obviously).

Otherwise the bottom would be:

Mercer, Northeastern Ohio, Marshall, South Carolina, Eastern Carolina, Eastern Virginia, Southern Illinois, Texas Tech, Rosalind Franklin, North Dakota, Wright State, Hawaii, West Virginia, Southern Alabama, Albany, Loma Linda, Toledo, Nevada, LSU-Shrevport, and Texas A&M.

Hey, I resent that. There is objective method to rank any medical school. It's all subjective. I would have, for example, picked LSU Shreveport over Harvard any day of the week. (Even assuming I wanted to go to a Canadian medical school like Harvard)
 

HumbleMD

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This thread is just a great way to piss people off. No one wants to hear the school they will be attending is the "lowest of the low". For everyone that calls a school their "back up" there are plenty of people that would love to go there (and tons that applied and didn't get in). More applicants than med school spots = no true back up schools.

I doubt you can find an unbiased list.

I can't wait to see the carnage :smuggrin: .
 

notdeadyet

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Why do they only rank 63? They just decided to stop at that random number? Or did the rest of the schools not submit their information?
If USN&WR ranked the other 62 schools, you'd find that schools in the lowest section would refuse to submit information. It would set off a bad reaction.
 

DrBowtie

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Why do they only rank 63? They just decided to stop at that random number? Or did the rest of the schools not submit their information?
Some places don't submit the survey. I'm not sure how many but it must have something to do with the random cut off.
 

alwaysaangel

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If USN&WR ranked the other 62 schools, you'd find that schools in the lowest section would refuse to submit information. It would set off a bad reaction.

Well I know some do refuse to submit info, but no one has ever been able to give me a concrete number on which ones don't. So I was just curious if the number of schools that didn't participate was actually higher than they were saying a while ago.

Kind of odd to just stop ranking them when there's so few.
 

CTtarheel

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It's not really fair to lump ECU in here. They aren't a research school and don't pretend to be. They have the mission of training primary care doctors for rural Eastern NC. Thus, research might not be as much of an interest for students there, and it wouldn't be fair to say their match list is bad because I doubt they have a ton of people who really want to go for the competitive residencies. In their niche (primary care residencies in rural NC), i would be willing to bet that they are very well respected.

Are we talking only US Allopathic schools or all schools? US ALLO>US DO>Caribbean (obviously).

Otherwise the bottom would be:

Mercer, Northeastern Ohio, Marshall, South Carolina, Eastern Carolina, Eastern Virginia, Southern Illinois, Texas Tech, Rosalind Franklin, North Dakota, Wright State, Hawaii, West Virginia, Southern Alabama, Albany, Loma Linda, Toledo, Nevada, LSU-Shrevport, and Texas A&M.


[I used a similar methodology as US News for Research Rankings of readily available information from the school's websites and MSAR: acceptance ratio (in/out of state)/MCAT/GPA, student body size, faculty size, NIH funding, endowment, tuition (in/out of state).]

Also, I'm sorry if you're amazed your school is on this list. Additionally, primary care rankings have nothing to do with research rankings (which are more reliable when the majority of people reference "top" schools). Perhaps you can use your negative energy to make an effort to pull your school off of it.
 

Shpamme

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I can't go back to my AMCAS anymore so I can't tell on my own..can anyone state precisely how many allopathic schools there are in the US right now?
 
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morriske

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I hate threads like this. Not everyone can go to the best med school that they are accepted to. I'm getting on the soap box now :laugh:

I couldn't apply to any state schools and I don't even know which state would consider me a resident at this point (for many complicated educational reasons) and I had to coordinate all of my applications with my husband's job offers. Then my husband had to accept one of his offers by Feb. 1 so we basically had to go with the city where I had an acceptance. Now even if I get in to the one ranked school where I've interviewed and haven't heard from (Tufts) I can't/won't go. Now I'm committed to moving to Chicago and I'm not an IL resident. Basically all the "middle-tier" schools in Chicago are IS biased (Rush, Loyola and UIC). My stats are competitive at those schools but when they only interview 4-10% of their OOS applicants it's not easy to get that interview. I'm grateful to have my acceptance at RFU so I can live in the same house as my husband and I'm not going to live my life wondering if I would be a better doctor if I went to a top 30-40 med school. Keep in mind that there are many applicants that end up at "lower tier" schools for reasons other than flaws on their med school application.

I'm stepping of the soap box now :laugh:
 

morriske

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Oh and I would give my pinky finger to be an IL resident right now :laugh:
 

StringerBell

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Why do they only rank 63? They just decided to stop at that random number? Or did the rest of the schools not submit their information?

They rank the Top 63, and then there's a play-in game between #64 and #65. So after that, they have the top 64 schools. The 64 schools are divided into 4 groups of 16, and then are seeded 1-16. They have a tournament in which #1 faces #16, #2 faces #15 and so on, with competitions such as diagnostic radiology, rapid EKG interpetation, and intubation.

After 2 rounds, they're left with the top 16, known as the "Scrub-in 16" which are pared down to the "ENT Eight" and then the "Fellow Four," who then battle for the title of Top Medical School in the Land!

March Med School Madness, baby.
 

alwaysaangel

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They rank the Top 63, and then there's a play-in game between #64 and #65. So after that, they have the top 64 schools. The 64 schools are divided into 4 groups of 16, and then are seeded 1-16. They have a tournament in which #1 faces #16, #2 faces #15 and so on, with competitions such as diagnostic radiology, rapid EKG interpetation, and intubation.

After 2 rounds, they're left with the top 16, known as the "Scrub-in 16" which are pared down to the "ENT Eight" and then the "Fellow Four," who then battle for the title of Top Medical School in the Land!

March Med School Madness, baby.

:laugh:
 

Navicular

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I can pretty much guarantee Meharry, Howard, Morehouse and RFU are at the bottom or pretty close.

EDIT: NYMC, Albany and if you want to include Touro-Harlem, are also probably at the bottom.
 

deuist

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I'm pretty sure that the reason the U.S. News ranking system extends to 63 is because it's supposed to include the top 60 schools. If there is a tie for 60, you will get additional universities.
 

jwnduke

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They rank the Top 63, and then there's a play-in game between #64 and #65. So after that, they have the top 64 schools. The 64 schools are divided into 4 groups of 16, and then are seeded 1-16. They have a tournament in which #1 faces #16, #2 faces #15 and so on, with competitions such as diagnostic radiology, rapid EKG interpetation, and intubation.

After 2 rounds, they're left with the top 16, known as the "Scrub-in 16" which are pared down to the "ENT Eight" and then the "Fellow Four," who then battle for the title of Top Medical School in the Land!

March Med School Madness, baby.

Nice post!

I have always thought that they rank 63 because that is half the number of US Allo schools. "Here is the top half and their rankings, and here is the bottom half."
 

Navicular

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NIH funding is all that matters. Anyone that tells you anything different is lying.
 

morriske

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I can pretty much guarantee Meharry, Howard, Morehouse and RFU are at the bottom or pretty close.

EDIT: NYMC, Albany and if you want to include Touro-Harlem, are also probably at the bottom.

Um no, Mercer is dead last according to NIH funding. Meharry and Morehouse are ranked in the 80s. NIH funding is all that matters??
 
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dshnay

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I'm really dissapointed to find out that there's some tension in this thread. This thread wasn't designed to piss people off but to acquire some knowledge at which schools are considered to be the "bottom" I guess the ones that would be "easier" to get accepted into. In addition to give some insight at which schools an applicant should NOT apply to if they have research background (ECU as mentioned above) assuming the possibility of continuing research in med school.
 

DropkickMurphy

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If you go by GPA of entering classes.....EVMS, Howard, the schools in Puerto Rico, NYMC, and pretty much the DO schools would add up to a bottom twenty.

Of course, my plan is to apply to mostly low ranking schools to hedge my bets on getting in and then have a few schools I would actually really want to go to (CCLCM, Baylor, Vandy, etc).
 

NYyanx28

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Well I know some do refuse to submit info, but no one has ever been able to give me a concrete number on which ones don't. So I was just curious if the number of schools that didn't participate was actually higher than they were saying a while ago.

Kind of odd to just stop ranking them when there's so few.

Penn St. does not submit their data... That's one, start counting...
 

morriske

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I'm really dissapointed to find out that there's some tension in this thread. This thread wasn't designed to piss people off but to acquire some knowledge at which schools are considered to be the "bottom" I guess the ones that would be "easier" to get accepted into. In addition to give some insight at which schools an applicant should NOT apply to if they have research background (ECU as mentioned above) assuming the possibility of continuing research in med school.

The tension was inevitable. The thread does not piss me off but the mention of the school that I plan to attend as a "bottom" med school does piss me off :mad:
 

punkindrublic

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valentines day:v-day cards::school rankings:usnews guides
 

Navicular

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The tension was inevitable. The thread does not piss me off but the mention of the school that I plan to attend as a "bottom" med school does piss me off :mad:

RFU is a low-tier school. You can lie to yourself and say it as just as high ranked as the others... but then your fooling yourself. Look at the numbers.
 

DropkickMurphy

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The tension was inevitable. The thread does not piss me off but the mention of the school that I plan to attend as a "bottom" med school does piss me off :mad:
Personally I don't malign any of the "lower ranked" MD schools......in fact, I'd rather attend EVMS than Harvard.
 

Navicular

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Um no, Mercer is dead last according to NIH funding. Meharry and Morehouse are ranked in the 80s. NIH funding is all that matters??

I see RFU is 110 out of 123... I rest my case. RFU is a low-tier school.
 

chable

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They rank the Top 63, and then there's a play-in game between #64 and #65. So after that, they have the top 64 schools. The 64 schools are divided into 4 groups of 16, and then are seeded 1-16. They have a tournament in which #1 faces #16, #2 faces #15 and so on, with competitions such as diagnostic radiology, rapid EKG interpetation, and intubation.

After 2 rounds, they're left with the top 16, known as the "Scrub-in 16" which are pared down to the "ENT Eight" and then the "Fellow Four," who then battle for the title of Top Medical School in the Land!

March Med School Madness, baby.

I was thinking of the same thing when all these Vs. threads started popping up.
 

DropkickMurphy

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That is a blatant lie.
So you say......of course you also base your ranking of schools off of something that has little to do directly with education so, I question what your reasoning...... :laugh:
 

morriske

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RFU is a low-tier school. You can lie to yourself and say it as just as high ranked as the others... but then your fooling yourself. Look at the numbers.

I know that it is "lower tier" but calling it "bottom" or "one of the worst" is just offensive. I never said I wanted to believe that it was as highly ranked as "the others". Bottom Line: There are no bad MD programs in the US.
 

morriske

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I can pretty much guarantee Meharry, Howard, Morehouse and RFU are at the bottom or pretty close.

EDIT: NYMC, Albany and if you want to include Touro-Harlem, are also probably at the bottom.

I was saying that you were wrong about Meharry(#82) and Morehouse(#83). I made absolutely no mention of RFU. I am pointing out that your " guarantee" of Morehouse and Meharry being near the bottom is incorrect.
 

jsnuka

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I was saying that you were wrong about Meharry(#82) and Morehouse(#83). I made absolutely no mention of RFU. I am pointing out that your " guarantee" of Morehouse and Meharry being near the bottom is incorrect.

The poster was just WRONG.

Howard, NYMC etc, etc. I mean why list Touro-Harlem when the school just opened or will be opening with a class this fall.

The thoughts presented by that poster are obviously ****** in nature.

Folx get quiet when their baseless assumptions are refuted.:laugh:
 
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