Boyfriend moved to residency and I moved with him, but we aren't engaged or married?

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That's not how guys think. They think of themselves first. Always. If men love and want to be with a woman he would marry her, the fact that he didn't means he doesn't see me in his future or at the very least has doubts. On top of that bought a house and didn't even include me.

I think it's how men think when more than one confides in me as a friend, about these very feelings when considering asking a gf to move to be with them.

My friends, who just got married after 5 years, said exactly that to me. He wasn't ready to get engaged to his longtime gf of what I think was 3 years, but it was a serious relationship they were having that they wanted to move to marriage when it felt right. Anyway, he said what I told you about feeling responsible and worrying about her feelings and all that, asked her to move, she did. He felt pretty responsible. Flash forward 2 years, they're married.

He'd been engaged in a 10 yr relationship with a shared house that ended badly (on account of the woman having feelings that she wasn't sharing with him!!!! She felt pressure to get married, which he never meant, and would have backed off if she'd COMMUNICATED. Sometimes men are the ones wanting marriage, and a woman doesn't).

The gf now wife, had moved for a guy before, and it went badly. She'd also had several bfs that tried to push her for an engagement in less than a year.

Both of them were cautious, had big deal careers, and reasons to take things slow. They did, they got engaged eventually, and married not too long after the engagement.

Anyway, I also talked to quite a few guys who had moved gfs and families for med school. They do really feel a lot of responsibility.

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90% sure that residents are more concerned with not killing patients than having lethargic sex during their 18 hour shift in a MRSA-contaminated janitor's closet with a fellow resident. Btw, men give zero f-cks how much money their woman makes once they can buy a house with cash. Maybe look into getting some fluoxetine.

Since this being a real situation is actually dangerous for a child, just consider that it is generally in the child's best interest to have access to their father, especially if he is a productive member of society. And you apparently have no clue about the prevalence of MDD in females that have unintended pregnancies. The irrationality shown in your latest posts kinda validate the argument that you can't do this alone. God forbid you inflict the misandry on a son.

But likely 8/8 troll. Show us da wae

JQCyDrs.jpg

Can you sing da song of my people? My brudda

Men don't go on social media and add women and like their pictures unless they think they're hot. Especially him who rarely ever likes things. If he's liking her profile pic which wasn't anything special in my opinion it means he likes what he see's.

And that might be all there is to it. Not that he's going to date her or ask her out. And dump you.
 
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Lots of doctors want to marry other doctors or hell even marry someone hotter. He probably figures since he's going to be making all this money soon that he can have his pick of whoever he wants and wants to keep his options open without making any real commitments to anyone.

He could be having all sorts of Tindr sex if this wasn't about wanting to be with you. He gets a lot more (from many guys' minds) benefits from being single than being a relationship with someone he doesn't love, and uprooted to come be with him.

If his intent was to break up, he would have done it with the residency move.
 
I'm done posting on here. Bye.
 
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I don't care what you have to say about this anymore. I'm doing what's best for me and my child by leaving.

That's fine. Think what you want. I didn't grow up with a father. But I know my mom tried really hard to keep him in my life. Something that always meant a lot to me and eased the pain of him not being in my life.

But if you don't care for the opinion of someone who grew up without a father, fine.

You know what's best for you. Get on that bus and don't look back.
 
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That's fine. Think what you want. I didn't grow up with a father. But I know my mom tried really hard to keep him in my life. Something that always meant a lot to me and eased the pain of him not being in my life.

But if you don't care for the opinion of someone who grew up without a father, fine.

You know what's best for you. Get on that bus and don't look back.

Im assuming she is gone, but this feels bad. I think everyone of us wanted to help her, but she couldn't be helped. And I'm unsure where her story leads. And the baby's. Where does the baby's story lead?

=\ This is the worst part of wanting to help, but not being able to do so
 
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Happily married to a woman who appreciates reason and evidence while also helping me be less callous irl. Got no desire to screw that up. Full Mike Pence protocol

I get it. I have a “no hugging unless you’re my mom or wife” rule.
My friends’ wives used to think I didn’t like them :rolleyes:
 
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@Crayola227 I gotta say it's no wonder why people wait and live together before they get married. Dear God. Even I'm just waiting for the right person
 
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@Crayola227 I gotta say it's no wonder why people wait and live together before they get married. Dear God. Even I'm just waiting for the right person

Yeah. First fiance didn't put hands on me until 6 years into the relationship, after living together 3 years. Although it wasn't a peach before then, abuse is abuse of course and so in hindsight, not terribly surprising it turned physical, just surprising to me how long it took. Took me longer to leave after it got physical than I'm proud of, but that was it.

The next one, well, he was the dream guy for me, but not in every way obvs. One time we were drunk having an innocent debate about something and he put his hand over my mouth to quiet me. That should have been it, but we talked about it and I forgave him and moved on. We dated for a year overall, practically living together, before I moved cross country to be with him. Lo and behold, we were drunk again, same deal, and from seemingly no where, he started choking me. That was pretty frakking scary.

Obviously you start to think booze is a bad idea. (It was a youth party thing that I grew out of eventually, and he didn't.)

Again, we discussed it, and I gave another chance. Shouldn't have been surprised that the next time (a year later) he put his hands on me, and this time sober.

Overall, I wouldn't have described it as an abusive or dysfunctional relationship. Moreso closer to the end, years in, before we broke up.

Basically, I tell this to dispel some myths. A lot of relationships can be really dysfunctional, but they don't all turn physically abusive. Yet, physical abuse doesn't always rear its ugly head early on in a frakked up relationship where it eventually will. It can take years to show up. In hindsight, a lot of seemingly forgivable things that were really harbingers were there. So that much isn't a myth; get out at the first sign of BS.

Also, the timing of when the abuse began: after I moved cross country to move in together. Marriage, even after 7 years, is another time that behavior you never imagined can emerge from someone.

I believe that we can never fully know someone, and that one can really change to some degree over time, if not their true colors, then shades of gray at least. And that those changes come from within, not without. Although sometimes the only time someone will ever really change is when you walk out the door forever. Bummer it couldn't be before then, and that someone else might be the one to enjoy the better behavior of someone you loved, but there you go. If you love them, you don't do them favors continuing a relationship that enables them to be their worst self.

People do better when they are mutually independent. Being able to walk out the door anytime isn't the same thing as having one foot out the door. It can help halt the natural tendency that anyone can have to start to take someone for granted.

Clearly marriage is not protective against abuse or splitting up.

What is protective is getting to know yourself, respecting yourself, having independence, and communication. Without continual effort to grow together, people can and do grow apart.
 
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Knowing what I know about how relationships can grow and change with time, and that no one can ever cease to surprise you, I am content to take anything a day at a time. I'm cool with commitment but I'm also not in a terrible hurry to marry.

I went to a cool wedding ceremony that pointed out, the marriage began before this day. Marriage is a promise, and this one began the first time you made a promise to each other, and kept it. And every time you talked about a future together, and then chose to be together, all those days from them to now, was how you made a future together. That the marriage this day was built on a series of promises that you kept to one another, until the one to be together forever was made. That the wedding that day was really to celebrate all the promises that brought us to the day that they wanted to share this promise in front of God and all the friends and family.

It's great to make promises for the future. Attending to this day, now, in your relationship, realizing that this day, now, is building that future, I think is key to getting there.

I wish I had known about
www.alturtle.com
sooner.
 
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@Crayola227 I gotta say it's no wonder why people wait and live together before they get married. Dear God. Even I'm just waiting for the right person

If you both really think you're going to be together forever, then what's the hurry? Enjoy the journey. Save up and have the engagement ring/wedding/honeymoon/house/car whatever of your dreams together when you're both ready.

Sometimes being too sure of someone is a problem. So I see no issue with dating and not being engaged indefinitely. Being together is a choice and it's one that truly is made everyday.
 
Legit 8/10 trolling....not joking, quality effort

You seem like the typical "pick-me" type men love, so not really interested. I personally know I'm a great catch and if he doesn't want to marry me that's fine. His ACTIONS show he has no interest in marrying me or at the very least doesn't trust me. So instead of wasting time with a man who doesn't see me in his future, I'm leaving.

I can raise this baby on my own just fine without any help from him. And before all the MGTOW's start complaining about child-support I won't ask him for a dime. I'll be just fine in Chicago raising my baby on my own.
On the very very small chance you’re serious.....liar. You’re gonna ask for money
 
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"I've told my friends about it and they say I was crazy moving down here to be with him without a ring on my finger. They think he can drop me anytime he wants, and putting the house in his name is a sign he doesn't see me in his future and is covering his ass."

Girl, you have been together for 3 years. He's going through the busiest time of his life. You both supremely altered your lives by moving across the country TOGETHER. That right there, the fact that you went with him, shows commitment on his end. If he didn't want to be with you in the long run he would've cut you off back in Chicago because it would be way easier leaving you there than having you move to his new house with him and having to move you back. Marriage is a HUGE decision. Some people don't even want marriage in the long run, and that does NOT mean they don't want to be committed to you. That is personal preference. You do NOT need MARRIAGE (a piece of paper) to be committed to someone you love. Because even if you do get married, divorce can still occur. Marriage and kids can not trap someone into staying with you forever. If he truly loves you, which it seems like he does, then he will stay committed to you. You have been with him through med school, now through residency. You have been his support system and he knows that.

Social media RUINS relationships. You are going to over think and worry yourself to death if you concentrate solely on the fact that he liked someone else's picture. You seem a little insecure about your relationship, and I think you need to voice these concerns with him. You will NOT seem needy talking about the future, you have been together a while, not just a few months, and you live together far from home. Talk to him. Even if you talk to him and he thinks your being needy or annoying, then he is not the guy for you. Because the right guy will listen and soothe your concerns.
 
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With all this talk about marriage, I'm not really sure I would be comfortable marrying without a prenup. I feel like this is being pragmatic but I feel my girlfriend will take it the wrong way if I bring it up. I'm not a secure person and I will never be. She tries to understand this but I can see it's hard for her. I feel bad because the long distance component of our relationship exacerbates my jealousy and tries my trust. This being our first serious relationship, I keep thinking what if we're both cheating ourselves of having fuller lives and I feel miserable for having her wait for me. But when I'm with her, I feel like there's no one else in the world I want to be with and it's me at my happiest. I can't keep my emotions in check. Would you guys feel insulted by the suggestion of a prenup? I wouldn't but I'm not typical, so jw.

OP I think you need to at least have a discussion about what your expectations are from the relationship. One discussion about the future doesn't have to turn into getting married next month or into you guys breaking up. But you have to address it, preferably at a time when neither of you are stressed or trying to relax (i.e. vacation). The reason you're asking the question on here isn't because you're insecure. It's because you're worried about what his answer is going to be, if he says yes you'll be the happiest person in the world but if he says no it seems you don't want to confront that possibility after investing so much. The only person who can give you an honest answer is your SO and I don't buy the excuses on here, he's been with you a long time and residency should not change the calculus. The desire to get married isn't something that blossoms overnight, it's a decision made with deliberation and if your SO hasn't given it some thought, I'd see it as a red flag. Finally, as for the house, it's not something to worry about as much. It's probably not his or your forever home, you should have spoken up when he was paying and said you want this to be a 50/50 partnership if you wanted to gauge his commitment.
 
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With all this talk about marriage, I'm not really sure I would be comfortable marrying without a prenup.

Just an FYI, and this varies from state to state, but a pre-nup almost never covers property that you obtain after you're married.

That is, if you're *already* independently wealthy, or expecting a big inheritance? Prenup makes sense. If you're a med student/resident/attending in your first few years but have a negative net worth? You have nothing to protect with a prenup. Anything you earn after marriage (outside of an inheritance) is going to be fair game in a divorce with or without one.
 
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Just an FYI, and this varies from state to state, but a pre-nup almost never covers property that you obtain after you're married.

That is, if you're *already* independently wealthy, or expecting a big inheritance? Prenup makes sense. If you're a med student/resident/attending in your first few years but have a negative net worth? You have nothing to protect with a prenup. Anything you earn after marriage (outside of an inheritance) is going to be fair game in a divorce with or without one.

Thank you for clearing that up! I am completely clueless about the specifics and thought a prenup was basically an equitable division of assets if a couple were to split up. Wow getting married is a pretty big decision then because people change and nothing remains static.

As for the OP I just read through the four pages, and I worry about a few things. You seem to have made up your mind and were fishing for evidence to support your thinking. You know they say all red flags look like flags when you look at them through rose colored glasses? When you refer to MGTOW and red pill etc, you're doing yourself a disservice and robbing yourself of independent critical thought. Parroting other people's talking points or experiences to the point of believing in them as your own is kinda what is going on with the US right now. You'd be better served by talking to someone directly instead of expecting them to read your mind or being passive aggressive.
 
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Thank you for clearing that up! I am completely clueless about the specifics and thought a prenup was basically an equitable division of assets if a couple were to split up. Wow getting married is a pretty big decision then because people change and nothing remains static.

You don't need a prenup for an equitable division of assets. That's the default. Notwithstanding anecdotes online, even if your spouse gives up their entire career at your behest and you make all the money, the most after a typical divorce would be a 50/50 split of all existing assets and then some amount of ongoing alimony payments (certainly less than half of your income, though the formulas get very complicated). That's equitable in a literal sense (that is, "equal"), but may not look "fair" if you don't think about it too hard ("I made all the money, why does she get half of it?!")

Child support is on top of that if you don't have equal custody, but that's money for the child, not the spouse.

A prenup is to try and guarantee the split won't be equitable - that you want more than half, because you're bringing more assets into the relationship than your partner. It works for preexisting assets, but not so much for things earned after you're married.

Don't get me wrong, divorce is devastating to your financial health. But marriage is typically quite good for it, and it's more complicated than "all men get screwed".
 
I went to a cool wedding ceremony that pointed out, the marriage began before this day. Marriage is a promise, and this one began the first time you made a promise to each other, and kept it. And every time you talked about a future together, and then chose to be together, all those days from them to now, was how you made a future together. That the marriage this day was built on a series of promises that you kept to one another, until the one to be together forever was made. That the wedding that day was really to celebrate all the promises that brought us to the day that they wanted to share this promise in front of God and all the friends and family.

My marriage was a result of my mom picking my wife. :D
 
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It's a personal decision and only you know your relationship and commitment to each other, but since you asked....
I wouldn't move anywhere with a boyfriend. My now-husband was planning to move to do research somewhere else for a couple years while we were dating, and I told him I wouldn't move with him but we could date long distance. I think he realized how serious I was about not following him around without commitment and we were engaged 6 months later. I don't know any residents in my husbands program whose girlfriends moved with them - they're all long distance and it's a 7 year program. I know 1 girlfriend who moved for fellowship and 2 years after moving she's still waiting for a ring and incredibly frustrated. I tend to agree with your friends on this one.
 
So, I'm going to put in a plug for not having emotional conversations and getting worked up about hypothetical stuff late at night here, because it never leads to good decision making and everything is always 1000x worse when you are tired and your worried brain gets the better of you. Not sure that this is a troll post but it definitely seems to have taken a sharp nosedive into catastrophizing. OP, hope you got a chance to get some sleep and are in a better place today!

Here's my few cents as an old married lady with kids:

- It's not unreasonable for your SO to buy a house and not include you on it if you aren't married. For all he knows you're going to hate the hours in residency and not want to stick around and the last thing he has time for right now is any kind of legal drama on top of residency. It doesn't mean you don't have a future together but it means you haven't grown into that relationship yet.

- If you want to get married you should talk to him about it and see what he thinks. It would also be nice to give him a heads up about your pregnancy. I think it is a little concerning that you are 3 months pregnant and have not broken the news to him yet. He definitely deserves to know, and ASAP.

- I know lots of doc/nurse, doc/doc, nurse/nurse pairs that are successful despite them all being in healthcare environments surrounded by other people. Those seem to be accomplished by mutual respect, open communication, trust and integrity. If you aren't secure in your relationship now, getting married won't solve the problem. The trust needs to be there first.

- People aren't mind readers, and residency is busy and high stress. He is probably largely unaware of how much you are struggling with these thoughts and/or is aware that you are struggling but is hoping you will tough it out until things settle down more. I know I am putting my husband through the ringer, especially with the kid. I know he is stressed out all the time because of my career choice. I know he has worried in the past that I will meet other doctors and "replace him" (which is ridiculous, but when you spend more time with other people I think it is easy to worry). We talk when we can and we try to be considerate but there are weeks that stretch into months where I feel like I hardly see them and I just hope they don't get tired of it and decide to leave. Like others have suggested, sit down and talk with him about what you want. You can have a baby together without being married and you can both decide if you are interested in marriage with each other despite having a child in the picture.

- If you are stressed by his lack of ability to care for your while you are pregnant and you have a support system at home that would make you feel better, then consider going home (although - if you need prenatal care will you have any coverage if you go?). It doesn't mean you're breaking up, it doesn't mean you don't have a future together. Pregnancy is hard and comes with lots of big feelings and challenges. There's nothing wrong with taking some time and space to sort out how you are feeling and how you want to go forward.
 
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It's a personal decision and only you know your relationship and commitment to each other, but since you asked....
I wouldn't move anywhere with a boyfriend. My now-husband was planning to move to do research somewhere else for a couple years while we were dating, and I told him I wouldn't move with him but we could date long distance. I think he realized how serious I was about not following him around without commitment and we were engaged 6 months later. I don't know any residents in my husbands program whose girlfriends moved with them - they're all long distance and it's a 7 year program. I know 1 girlfriend who moved for fellowship and 2 years after moving she's still waiting for a ring and incredibly frustrated. I tend to agree with your friends on this one.

I don't know that I read it as a good thing that you didn't move with him and 6 months later a ring appeared.

Most med school and resident relationships I saw, the SO moved. They weren't always married or engaged, although the relationships were generally on that path going by *discussions* *cough* *cough* that had been made.

I don't understand this waiting on a ring business, but in both of my engagements, despite talking about marriage early on, it didn't happen until 5 or so years in. That was my 20s though. I think I was more gunshy.

Maybe I've never waited because I've always been very hesistant to tie myself down. My mom was a single mom at a young age, and she modeled and taught independence.

So I guess I've never "waited" on a ring because I've never wanted one early on, and I would never not ask for one that I wanted. Food for thought.
 
With all this talk about marriage, I'm not really sure I would be comfortable marrying without a prenup. I feel like this is being pragmatic but I feel my girlfriend will take it the wrong way if I bring it up. I'm not a secure person and I will never be. She tries to understand this but I can see it's hard for her. I feel bad because the long distance component of our relationship exacerbates my jealousy and tries my trust. This being our first serious relationship, I keep thinking what if we're both cheating ourselves of having fuller lives and I feel miserable for having her wait for me. But when I'm with her, I feel like there's no one else in the world I want to be with and it's me at my happiest. I can't keep my emotions in check. Would you guys feel insulted by the suggestion of a prenup? I wouldn't but I'm not typical, so jw.

OP I think you need to at least have a discussion about what your expectations are from the relationship. One discussion about the future doesn't have to turn into getting married next month or into you guys breaking up. But you have to address it, preferably at a time when neither of you are stressed or trying to relax (i.e. vacation). The reason you're asking the question on here isn't because you're insecure. It's because you're worried about what his answer is going to be, if he says yes you'll be the happiest person in the world but if he says no it seems you don't want to confront that possibility after investing so much. The only person who can give you an honest answer is your SO and I don't buy the excuses on here, he's been with you a long time and residency should not change the calculus. The desire to get married isn't something that blossoms overnight, it's a decision made with deliberation and if your SO hasn't given it some thought, I'd see it as a red flag. Finally, as for the house, it's not something to worry about as much. It's probably not his or your forever home, you should have spoken up when he was paying and said you want this to be a 50/50 partnership if you wanted to gauge his commitment.

I would have a pre-nup. I see no problem with having one or discussing one. Yes, there are people who get super upset about this. But not everyone. Only one way to find out.
 
I feel like I've somehow gone back in time and stumbled upon /r/incel

I've been using SDN for 12+ years and the number of "emotionally stunted men feeling sorry for themselves" threads is certainly a new and growing phenomenon on this website.

There's a clusterf-ck of a thread on SPF about "the crisis of masculinity" right now, but if you want to see an example of what's going wrong with American men in today's society, this is it right here. Rather than being forced to confront issues with your own emotional immaturity and take introspection and corrective action, you can retreat into the internet for instant validation where you can have hundreds of other stunted losers telling you that it's society's fault that you can't maintain relationships like a grownup and not something that you need to correct yourself.
 
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I've been using SDN for 12+ years and the number of "emotionally stunted men feeling sorry for themselves" threads is certainly a new and growing phenomenon on this website.

There's a clusterf-ck of a thread on SPF about "the crisis of masculinity" right now, but if you want to see an example of what's going wrong with American men in today's society, this is it right here. Rather than being forced to confront issues with your own emotional immaturity and take introspection and corrective action, you can retreat into the internet for instant validation where you can have hundreds of other stunted losers telling you that it's society's fault that you can't maintain relationships like a grownup and not something that you need to correct yourself.

I'm not going to sit here and believe that all 50% (or 40%, whatever statistic) of married men who are later divorced are all immature losers that didn't respect women. Women initiate 70% of the divorces and I'm supposed to believe that they are all victims.

No. I have more common sense than that.
 
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I've been using SDN for 12+ years and the number of "emotionally stunted men feeling sorry for themselves" threads is certainly a new and growing phenomenon on this website.

There's a clusterf-ck of a thread on SPF about "the crisis of masculinity" right now, but if you want to see an example of what's going wrong with American men in today's society, this is it right here. Rather than being forced to confront issues with your own emotional immaturity and take introspection and corrective action, you can retreat into the internet for instant validation where you can have hundreds of other stunted losers telling you that it's society's fault that you can't maintain relationships like a grownup and not something that you need to correct yourself.

Yuck. There's a growing trend I feel of everyone not taking responsibility and growing the frak up, men and women.

www.alturtle.com

Taught me so much about how to take responsibility for yourself in a relationship.

It was him or ACA (Adult Children of Alcoholics/Dysfunctional Families) that said that, you know, most of us never really are taught how to have relationships. We watch adults do it, who had no one but their own families to emulate, and all with varying degrees of success/not really success. How funny that we go through driver's ed, take home economics, learn how to balance a checkbook, but never formally learn how to have healthy relationships, given we consider that one of the most important things in life.

People have this idea that we just "know" how to do it right. But for all the effort we spend learning how to drive, how to do calculus, and many people have never even read a book on healthy relating.
 
Yuck. There's a growing trend I feel of everyone not taking responsibility and growing the frak up, men and women.


Taught me so much about how to take responsibility for yourself in a relationship.

It was him or ACA (Adult Children of Alcoholics/Dysfunctional Families) that said that, you know, most of us never really are taught how to have relationships. We watch adults do it, who had no one but their own families to emulate, and all with varying degrees of success/not really success. How funny that we go through driver's ed, take home economics, learn how to balance a checkbook, but never formally learn how to have healthy relationships, given we consider that one of the most important things in life.

People have this idea that we just "know" how to do it right. But for all the effort we spend learning how to drive, how to do calculus, and many people have never even read a book on healthy relating.

I prefer my method of looking out for me first. I will not compromise my integrity because of some girl. Actually broke up with my girlfriend yesterday over this same issue. She said I needed to "prove my love to her" which would have involved a lot of money and time and this was after we've had a relationship for months. I said to her that I've been with her everyday to which she said "any guy can do that" and had been making plans for us to live together. But for her it wasn't enough. Sooooo....

I went my own way. :D
 
I'm not going to sit here and believe that all 50% (or 40%, whatever statistic) are all immature losers that didn't respect women. Women initiate 70% of the divorces and I'm supposed to believe that they are all victims.

No. I have more common sense than that.

I'm really going to disagree here. Women are extremely monogamous, comparatively. I think it takes a lot for a woman to leave a relationship, especially a marriage. Especially with kids.

Some study asked, "if you could have sex with someone attractive, and it was guaranteed that your spouse would never, ever find out, would you?" And it was like 25% of men said yes, and only 4% of women did!!!

IRL those values are likely different, but I find the attitude held here interesting.

There's all kinds of similar value disparities when you look at cheating and why. Men are most likely to cheat, although it's more often not a reflection of how they feel about their relationship.

Women are less likely to cheat, and more likely to cheat emotionally, not physically. The proportion of women who say they cheated because they didn't feel appreciated by their husband, is ridiculous.
 
Man, y'all got trolled something fierce.
Initially it was a reasonable discussion, then a few of the crazy MGTOW/red-pillers/whatever showed up and I thought it was just a weird discussion for SDN.

Then the OP went off the wall and practically proved themselves a troll.

All in all, I give it a good 6/10. It escalated too quickly to be a true troll masterpiece.
 
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Ok so last night I post on page 1 about some girl who moved to be with her BF for residency and needs to have an old fashioned DTR talk.

I come back to FOUR FREAKIN' PAGES of posts and something about a baby. I'm afraid to even read pages 2 and 3. Yikes!
 
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And that's due to women being overworked and unappreciated at home and men typically cheating so. So of course women are going to initiate a divorce. You make it seem like women just break up their families for no reason. As I said before most men would get custody of their kids if they wanted it, fact is most don't.

I haven't read the whole thread and I probably won't. I don't know if this has been addressed already:

1) Men and women cheat at the same rate.

2) Men can and do feel unappreciated, too.

3) Women are not saints.

Having said that, I agree with your concerns. After three years and a significant move, I would like to know if I'm included in his future.

When talks about his plans post residency, does he say "I want to practice in Florida" or "Where do you think we should move? I've been thinking about Florida."

Pay attention to the language he is using. Does he talk about "us" or "you" and "me"? Does he talk about his plans, your plans, or "our plans"?

When I was dating my wife, we talked about our married life as a given. It was just a natural progression. We both knew it was going to happen we just needed a job. After the residency match I got on my knees and asked her to marry me but I already knew the answer. I just wanted to make it special for her. We got married a couple of months after that, right before starting residency.

You can't afford to be wasting your time with someone that won't commit. I would assume you guys are in your late twenties to early thirties.

Remember this and I mean it in the nicest way possible: A doctor fresh out of residency in his mid thirties is in his prime. A woman not so much, unfortunately. This is just a fact. I don't mean any ill by saying this. Realize that this is your prime time, that you are valuable, and act accordingly.

It is not enough for you to love him. He needs to love you back.

Good luck!
 
I'm really going to disagree here. Women are extremely monogamous, comparatively. I think it takes a lot for a woman to leave a relationship, especially a marriage. Especially with kids.

Some study asked, "if you could have sex with someone attractive, and it was guaranteed that your spouse would never, ever find out, would you?" And it was like 25% of men said yes, and only 4% of women did!!!

IRL those values are likely different, but I find the attitude held here interesting.

There's all kinds of similar value disparities when you look at cheating and why. Men are most likely to cheat, although it's more often not a reflection of how they feel about their relationship.

Women are less likely to cheat, and more likely to cheat emotionally, not physically. The proportion of women who say they cheated because they didn't feel appreciated by their husband, is ridiculous.

But stats are stats and MGTOW has arisen as a movement because of this. Men are as much the victims here as much women are. And they have less of the say in the courts and more of a chance of losing their children and money.

That's what a lot of men are against marriage now.
 
I prefer my method of looking out for me first. I will not compromise my integrity because of some girl. Actually broke up with my girlfriend yesterday over this same issue. She said I needed to "prove my love to her" which would have involved a lot of money and time and this was after we've had a relationship for months. I said to her that I've been with her everyday to which she said "any guy can do that" and had been making plans for us to live together. But for her it wasn't enough. Sooooo....

I went my own way. :D

Big difference between men and women. Guys have this idea that just because they showed up, that's it. I said I loved you once, why do I have to repeat the behavior? I did xyz action, why words? Why gifts?

I urge you to check out "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus."

Men tend to be independent, and "if it's not broke, why fix it?" Women tend to be "caretakers," on the look out for opportunities to meet a need. So each gender oddly enough tends to want to receive the way that they love. Men don't want to be a woman's "project," and women want men to continually find ways to show love.

Men think that because they are doing the "big things" like bringing home the paycheck, paying the mortgage, and being together every day, that this is enough. It isn't.

I don't agree with the money thing, but you find fault that she wants your time?
Time is love.
I'm trying to find an excellent article that explains why this is the case.

You will never make someone feel love with any substitute for your time - not a fancy job, money, gifts (I know I said gifts matter, they do), a nice house, a maid, none of it.
 
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But stats are stats and MGTOW has arisen as a movement because of this. Men are as much the victims here as much women are. And they have less of the say in the courts and more of a chance of losing their children and money.

That's what a lot of men are against marriage now.

Well I don't really give a crap about marriage legally speaking. I am a big fan of monogamy and commitment.
 
I haven't read the whole thread and I probably won't. I don't know if this has been addressed already:

1) Men and women cheat at the same rate.

2) Men can and do feel unappreciated, too.

3) Women are not saints.

Having said that, I agree with your concerns. After three years and a significant move, I would like to know if I'm included in his future.

When talks about his plans post residency, does he say "I want to practice in Florida" or "Where do you think we should move? I've been thinking about Florida."

Pay attention to the language he is using. Does he talk about "us" or "you" and "me"? Does he talk about his plans, your plans, or "our plans"?

When I was dating my wife, we talked about our married life as a given. It was just a natural progression. We both knew it was going to happen we just needed a job. After the residency match I got on my knees and asked her to marry me but I already knew the answer. I just wanted to make it special for her. We got married a couple of months after that, right before starting residency.

You can't afford to be wasting your time with someone that won't commit. I would assume you guys are in your late twenties to early thirties.

Remember this and I mean it in the nicest way possible: A doctor fresh out of residency in his mid thirties is in his prime. A woman not so much, unfortunately. This is just a fact. I don't mean any ill by saying this. Realize that this is your prime time, that you are valuable, and act accordingly.

It is not enough for you to love him. He needs to love you back.

Good luck!

You are definitely wrong about men and women cheating at equal rates. Not sure how deeply you've looked into, and it's been a few years for me, but it's a topic I studied in so much excruciating detail.
 
Yeah. First fiance didn't put hands on me until 6 years into the relationship, after living together 3 years. Although it wasn't a peach before then, abuse is abuse of course and so in hindsight, not terribly surprising it turned physical, just surprising to me how long it took. Took me longer to leave after it got physical than I'm proud of, but that was it.

The next one, well, he was the dream guy for me, but not in every way obvs. One time we were drunk having an innocent debate about something and he put his hand over my mouth to quiet me. That should have been it, but we talked about it and I forgave him and moved on. We dated for a year overall, practically living together, before I moved cross country to be with him. Lo and behold, we were drunk again, same deal, and from seemingly no where, he started choking me. That was pretty frakking scary.

Obviously you start to think booze is a bad idea. (It was a youth party thing that I grew out of eventually, and he didn't.)

Again, we discussed it, and I gave another chance. Shouldn't have been surprised that the next time (a year later) he put his hands on me, and this time sober.

Overall, I wouldn't have described it as an abusive or dysfunctional relationship. Moreso closer to the end, years in, before we broke up.

Basically, I tell this to dispel some myths. A lot of relationships can be really dysfunctional, but they don't all turn physically abusive. Yet, physical abuse doesn't always rear its ugly head early on in a frakked up relationship where it eventually will. It can take years to show up. In hindsight, a lot of seemingly forgivable things that were really harbingers were there. So that much isn't a myth; get out at the first sign of BS.

Also, the timing of when the abuse began: after I moved cross country to move in together. Marriage, even after 7 years, is another time that behavior you never imagined can emerge from someone.

I believe that we can never fully know someone, and that one can really change to some degree over time, if not their true colors, then shades of gray at least. And that those changes come from within, not without. Although sometimes the only time someone will ever really change is when you walk out the door forever. Bummer it couldn't be before then, and that someone else might be the one to enjoy the better behavior of someone you loved, but there you go. If you love them, you don't do them favors continuing a relationship that enables them to be their worst self.

People do better when they are mutually independent. Being able to walk out the door anytime isn't the same thing as having one foot out the door. It can help halt the natural tendency that anyone can have to start to take someone for granted.

Clearly marriage is not protective against abuse or splitting up.

What is protective is getting to know yourself, respecting yourself, having independence, and communication. Without continual effort to grow together, people can and do grow apart.

I'm sorry, girl :(
 
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You are definitely wrong about men and women cheating at equal rates. Not sure how deeply you've looked into, and it's been a few years for me, but it's a topic I studied in so much excruciating detail.

I think women are less likely to admit it. Come on, who do you think men are cheating with? It's with other women.

Call me cynical but I live by this motto: trust no one from the waist down.
 
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Big difference between men and women. Guys have this idea that just because they showed up, that's it. I said I loved you once, why do I have to repeat the behavior? I did xyz action, why words? Why gifts?

I urge you to check out "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus."

Men tend to be independent, and "if it's not broke, why fix it?" Women tend to be "caretakers," on the look out for opportunities to meet a need. So each gender oddly enough tends to want to receive the way that they love. Men don't want to be a woman's "project," and women want men to continually find ways to show love.

Men think that because they are doing the "big things" like bringing home the paycheck, paying the mortgage, and being together every day, that this is enough. It isn't.

I don't agree with the money thing, but you find fault that she wants your time?
Time is love.
I'm trying to find an excellent article that explains why this is the case.

You will never make someone feel love with any substitute for your time - not a fancy job, money, gifts (I know I said gifts matter, they do), a nice house, a maid, none of it.

I did this (said I love you) everyday for while with my gf and I gave as much time to her as much as possible. I went the extra mile many times and even alerted her friends and was close to alerting the authorities when I thought she was in significant danger. I also tried my best as much as I could to spend time with her. I've communicated that to her several times.

I'm sorry, but I have a limit. I just wanted her affection and had always gone the extra mile to get it.

I will say this though. I respect your opinion Crayola and look forward to having a civil discussion with you about this in this thread
 
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I'm 3 months pregnant.

Holy cow. Hold up, girl! He needs to know. He is the father. The baby is not only yours! Telling him about it is the only right thing to do!
 
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I think women are less likely to admit it. Come on, who do you think men are cheating with? It's with other women.

Call me cynical but I live by this motto: trust no one from the waist down.

maybe , maybe not ;) but its not like they are all cheating with married women.
 
You are definitely wrong about men and women cheating at equal rates. Not sure how deeply you've looked into, and it's been a few years for me, but it's a topic I studied in so much excruciating detail.
Last data I saw it actually depends on which cohort of women we're talking about.

If we talk about the women currently in their 70s, they are significantly less likely to have cheated on their spouse than their husbands.

If we actually look at married people in their 20s, the women were *more* likely to have cheated than the men.

In the cohorts in between, men were more likely to have cheated, but not by a huge amount.

The big difference was actually infidelity rates among men have gone down a ton. Women aren't cheating any more than they used to.
 
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Big difference between men and women. Guys have this idea that just because they showed up, that's it. I said I loved you once, why do I have to repeat the behavior? I did xyz action, why words? Why gifts?

I urge you to check out "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus."

Men tend to be independent, and "if it's not broke, why fix it?" Women tend to be "caretakers," on the look out for opportunities to meet a need. So each gender oddly enough tends to want to receive the way that they love. Men don't want to be a woman's "project," and women want men to continually find ways to show love.

Men think that because they are doing the "big things" like bringing home the paycheck, paying the mortgage, and being together every day, that this is enough. It isn't.

I don't agree with the money thing, but you find fault that she wants your time?
Time is love.
I'm trying to find an excellent article that explains why this is the case.

You will never make someone feel love with any substitute for your time - not a fancy job, money, gifts (I know I said gifts matter, they do), a nice house, a maid, none of it.
You're just clinging to gender stereotypes. You're worse than Hitler!!!

Seriously though, this is a great post.
 
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Last data I saw it actually depends on which cohort of women we're talking about.

If we talk about the women currently in their 70s, they are significantly less likely to have cheated on their spouse than their husbands.

If we actually look at married people in their 20s, the women were *more* likely to have cheated than the men.

In the cohorts in between, men were more likely to have cheated, but not by a huge amount.

The big difference was actually infidelity rates among men have gone down a ton. Women aren't cheating any more than they used to.

Clearly I'll need to take another look. I shouldn't slut shame but I find the current trends in women's behavior pretty atrocious.

But I don't blame women, or men, for that matter for the divorces. My bro Al Turtle believes it takes 2 people for a relationship to fail, and only 1 for it to succeed. I know that sounds impossible at first, but he makes his point.

In any case, it's never one person for why a split happens. Not really fair to blame one side or the other. Gotta just take care of your own shyte.
 
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