Breast Surgery and Serratus Anterior Blocks

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BLADEMDA

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Are most of you doing just a Serratus Anterior Block for Breast Surgery or are you doing Pecs 1 and Pecs 2 blocks? Anyone doing a Pecs 1 plus Serratus Anterior block?



Anyone doing Pecs 2 blocks for outpatient breast surgery?

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pec-i-and-pecs-ii-serratus-anterior-block-20-638.jpg
 
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Technique
The PECS blocks can be performed prior to or after surgery for analgesia. One consideration is that there may be a
significant amount of subcutaneous air postoperatively, which will make US guidance extremely difficult. Performing the blocks before surgery can result in preemptive analgesia and decrease opioid consumption.
The block is performed with the patient in the supine position and under US guidance. A similar position of the arm to the infraclavicular block (elbow flexed and shoulder abducted) seems to work best for visualization of appropriate anatomy in the PECS I block.[20] In this position, the probe can be placed inferior to the clavicle and at the “12 to 1 o’clock” orientation of the breast. The use of a linear probe and a beveled tip needle with an in-plane needle technique will allow for injection between the pectorals muscles and will accomplish the PEC I block (Figure 3). For the PEC II block, one can scan laterally and inferiorly along the breast contour in the anterior axillary line to visualize the lateral

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edge of the pec minor muscle, the serratus anterior muscle, and the 4th rib (Figure 4). In the PECS II block, local anesthetic will be deposited between the 4th rib and the serratus muscle. The serratus plane block is performed near the midaxillary line, and the local anesthetic placement is between the latissimus dorsi muscle and the serratus muscle along the 4th and 5th ribs.[17] As for the choice of local anesthetic, in the PECS blocks, analgesic results are easily obtained with the choice of volume over concentration (ie, a lower concentration 0.2–0.25% of a longer-acting drug and a higher volume 20–30 cc bilaterally). One can often visualize both pectoral muscles and serratus muscles along the 3rd and 4th ribs. If this is possible, one can use this single scan to place local anesthetic in all three planes with a single needle pass, starting with the deepest plane, beneath the serratus muscle, and infiltrating as the needle is withdrawn to finally deposit local anesthetic between the pectoralis muscles.


PECS Versus PVBS for Perioperative Analgesic Management in Breast Surgery - American Society of Regional Anesthesia and Pain Medicine
 
I do serratus and works great. Some others in my group still doing paravertebral for mastectomy. Seems overkill.
 
Anyone have an opinion on the Pecs 1 and Serratus Plane Block being the "best" chest wall approach for Mastectomy? I'm trying to avoid a Thoracic paravertebral block or thoracic epidural; instead, utilize Pecs 1 plus Serratus Block:

 
Pecs 1 and 2 for every mastectomy. Never even seen serratus anterior. Only done handful paravertebral
 
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Pecs 1 and 2 for every mastectomy. Never even seen serratus anterior. Only done handful paravertebral


The Serratus Plane block may be a better choice than a Pecs 2 block for a Latissimus Dorsi Flap Procedure. Otherwise, a Pecs 1 and Pecs 2 should be sufficient based on the current data to date.

Does anyone have anecdotal evidence that a Serratus Plane block is superior to a Pecs 2?
 
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The Serratus Plane block may be a better choice than a Pecs 2 block for a Latissimus Dorsi Flap Procedure. Otherwise, a Pecs 1 and Pecs 2 should be sufficient based on the current data to date.

Does anyone have anecdotal evidence that a Serratus Plane block is superior to a Pecs 2?

The real question is "does a erector spinae block beat all of them ?" T2-T9 should cover most breast surgeries. I've only been able to do two so far for thorocotmies. So far so good, definitely need bilaterals for anything medial to midclavicular line. Anyone doing these?


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The real question is "does a erector spinae block beat all of them ?" T2-T9 should cover most breast surgeries. I've only been able to do two so far for thorocotmies. So far so good, definitely need bilaterals for anything medial to midclavicular line. Anyone doing these?


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Yes, I understand the Erector Spinae Block may be as good as the Serratus Block but a Pecs 1 block would still likely need to be added for surgery around the Breast/Pectoralis Major and Minor muscles.
 
I haven't read all the posts here so if this has been addressed then I apologize.
But i don't find that these pts are all that uncomfortable after breast surgery. Even our biggest cases rarely spend any time in the hospital after surgery.
Don't get me wrong, I love regional. This just seems a bit overkill even for me.

PS: yes I realize how "Ped school" this sounds.
 
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Breast cancer is the second most common newly diagnosed cancer and the second leading cause of cancer death among women in the United States.1 Although early detection and treatment have increased the rate of survival for women with breast cancer, a significant number of women (25%-60%) report persistent pain of the breast, arm, and/or chest wall that can last for months or years.2 Certain risk factors may increase the chance of persistent pain after breast cancer surgery, including younger age, preoperative chronic pain, maladaptive coping (anxiety, depression, and catastrophizing), the surgical approach, and medical treatments. This article reviews the defining features of persistent pain after breast cancer surgery, risk factors, therapeutic strategies, and potential preventive measures that can be used to reduce the incidence and severity of this challenging pain condition.

1 Advances in breast cancer treatment have led to steady improvements in the rate of survival, and there are currently more than 3 million breast cancer survivors in the United States.2 Although the decreasing rate of death is noteworthy, many survivors report severe, disabling pain in the region of the affected breast that interferes with social and physical function and erodes quality of life.2 With the potential for preventing or alleviating persistent pain after breast cancer surgery (PPBCS), clinical studies to identify risk factors and potential treatment strategies have been undertaken.
Persistent Pain After Breast Cancer Surgery: Risk Factors and Strategies to Reduce Incidence and Severity
 
I haven't read all the posts here so if this has been addressed then I apologize.
But i don't find that these pts are all that uncomfortable after breast surgery. Even our biggest cases rarely spend any time in the hospital after surgery.
Don't get me wrong, I love regional. This just seems a bit overkill even for me.

PS: yes I realize how "Ped school" this sounds.

I agree with you somewhat. But, if the surgeon requests a block/blocks I typically comply if the request is reasonable.

A double blind randomized trial of wound infiltration with ropivacaine after breast cancer surgery with axillary nodes dissection

A comparative randomized study of paravertebral block versus wound infiltration of bupivacaine in modified radical mastectomy
 
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Jeffrey Gonzales, MD
Assistant Professor
Department of Anesthesiology
University of Colorado
Boulder, CO

The main therapies for breast cancer treatment include local and systemic therapies. Systemic medical therapy can include chemotherapy, hormone therapy, and protein receptor targeted therapy. Local therapy includes surgery and radiation therapy. The majority of women diagnosed with breast cancer will have some type of surgery throughout the course of their disease.

With the recent changes in the health care environment, quality improvement and enhanced recovery pathways are becoming more important. The main objectives of these pathways revolve around improving outcomes while minimizing risk for patients. According to the National Surgery Quality Improvement Program (NSQIP) data, the complication rate after breast surgery is about 6% versus upwards of a 25% risk with colorectal surgery.[1] Although the percentage of complications may be significantly lower in breast surgery, it seems reasonable to approach these patients with anesthetic plans that offer the best opportunities to decrease complications. Since one of the common causes for prolonged hospital admission or potential patient dissatisfaction is acute postoperative pain,
an approach should greatly consider pathways for optimal recovery related to pain management.[2-3]

The options for pain management should include a multimodal regimen that involves oral and intravenous (IV) medications. This approach aims to minimize side effects while optimizing outcomes.[3-4] Regional techniques should be considered as part of the analgesic regimen as well. The interest in regional techniques—namely, paravertebral nerve blocks (PVBs) and epidurals—stems from the desire to minimize the risk of chronic pain after breast surgery[5-6] as well as taking advantage of possible impacts of this technique on the possibility of cancer recurrence.[7-8] Thoracic epidurals may be considered a valid choice, especially for bilateral procedures.

However, many patients are discharged either the day of surgery or within 1 day postoperatively, making epidurals a less than optimal option. Besides epidurals and continuous wound infiltration, other choices for regional techniques include uni- or bilateral PVBs and recently described pectoral (PEC) I-II and serratus plane blocks.[9] The innervation of the breast involves the thoracic dermatomes of T2–T6, and, when subpectoral expanders or implants are used, one must also consider the innervation to the pectorals muscles (pectoralis major and pectoralis minor).[10]

PECS Versus PVBS for Perioperative Analgesic Management in Breast Surgery - American Society of Regional Anesthesia and Pain Medicine
 
I get it Blade but I yet have seen or heard of a breast cancer survivor in my practice complain of the things this article states is common. My sister just went through all of this that we are discussing, last year. She is tough so I don't expect many of these pts to behave as she did but her experience was that radiation was the worst then chemo and finally surgery. She had three surgeries and they were all much easier than the radiation and chemo. So I doubt that these blocks are making all that much difference in these pts.
And I am really starting to read these studies with a much more skeptical eye these days. Way too much BS being put out in the name of science for the sake of having your name in print and even more. When people in academia are required to put out research for promotions or whatever then we get BS like this.
But maybe I'm wrong. I just don't have the critical eye much less the time to vet these articles.
We have a real issue in science these days. How do we determine true outcomes with good research from real science. I don't know efore I remain skeptic u til I see things for myself. And that I admit sucks. But that is what science is coming to.
 
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I get it Blade but I yet have seen or heard of a breast cancer survivor in my practice complain of the things this article states is common. My sister just went through all of this that we are discussing, last year. She is tough so I don't expect many of these pts to behave as she did but her experience was that radiation was the worst then chemo and finally surgery. She had three surgeries and they were all much easier than the radiation and chemo. So I doubt that these blocks are making all that much difference in these pts.
And I am really starting to read these studies with a much more skeptical eye these days. Way too much BS being put out in the name of science for the sake of having your name in print and even more. When people in academia are required to put out research for promotions or whatever then we get BS like this.
But maybe I'm wrong. I just don't have the critical eye much less the time to vet these articles.
We have a real issue in science these days. How do we determine true outcomes with good research from real science. I don't know efore I remain skeptic u til I see things for myself. And that I admit sucks. But that is what science is coming to.

I don't disagree with you. But, I'm under pressure from the surgeons to do the blocks as they hear about them in their meetings. The evidence for "routine Pecs 1 and 2 blocks" is simply not proven as this point over just local infiltration. It's almost like "monkey see, monkey do" sometimes in practice. I remember when the young Ortho guys were placing intra-articular catheters for their shoulders and we all know how that ended up:Postoperative analgesia for shoulder surgery: a critical appraisal and review of current techniques

Again, I'm not sure how much difference a Pecs1/Pecs 2 makes for a simple mastectomy or how much a TAP really benefits patients undergoing a LASH surgery. But, I am paid to make the Patients and the surgeons as happy as I can.

Nerve Block Versus Non-targeted Local Anaesthesia in Breast Surgery - Full Text View - ClinicalTrials.gov

USG PECS vs LIA for breast cancer surgery - Health Research Authority
 
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Well when our surgeons came to us with this sort of nonsense we replied by saying, "happy to do this but let's look at this subjectively by comparing our current practice with your requested practice." We developed a local review process with nurses recording data on the pts. Not a perfect study so we won't be publishing it (unlike the crap we see more and more these days) but still enough for us to stop the surgeons requested nonsense.
We ended the local review early since our practice prior to the surgeons input proved much superior.
Btw, this was an Exparel review.
 
Well when our surgeons came to us with this sort of nonsense we replied by saying, "happy to do this but let's look at this subjectively by comparing our current practice with your requested practice." We developed a local review process with nurses recording data on the pts. Not a perfect study so we won't be publishing it (unlike the crap we see more and more these days) but still enough for us to stop the surgeons requested nonsense.
We ended the local review early since our practice prior to the surgeons input proved much superior.
Btw, this was an Exparel review.


I too look at the "results" of these changes requested by the surgeons or implemented by me to our department. I agree the LIA of Exparel into the knee joint/skin doesn't add much in terms of duration of analgesia vs just the standard Ortho "cocktail" with Ropivacaine plus adjuvants.

But, there are other times that these changes do help "around the margins" for certain patients. For example, a TAP block prior to LASH surgery may benefit some woman in terms of less opioids and earlier discharge home. Or, a Pecs1/Pecs2 block combined with TIVA for a breast lumpectomy almost completely avoids opioids and any postop nausea/vomiting.

In the end, a lot of this stuff is "soft science" because the hard data just isn't there; but, again, if it helps around the margins with minimal additional risk to the patients then I'm likely to go along with it.


http://www.anesthesiologynews.com/P...lock-or-Not-To-Block-/38047/ses=ogst?enl=true
 
ERAS Pathway Improves Analgesia, Opioid Use and PONV Following Total Mastectomy


New Orleans—With surgery still the primary treatment for breast cancer, strategies to minimize acute postoperative pain have the potential for significant benefit, perhaps even preventing development of chronic pain. A research team at the University of California, San Francisco (UCSF) has moved much closer to this lofty goal. They developed an enhanced recovery after surgery (ERAS) pathway that significantly decreased opioid consumption, acute postoperative pain, and postoperative nausea and vomiting (PONV) in women undergoing total mastectomy.

“There’s a movement in anesthesia to improve patient care by implementing ERAS pathways,” said Monica Harbell, MD, assistant clinical professor of anesthesia and perioperative care at UCSF’s School of Medicine. “Nevertheless, there haven't been many enhanced recovery pathways in breast surgery. So we wanted to apply the principles of enhanced recovery in an effort to get our patients mobilized earlier, more active and involved in their care, and hopefully achieve better outcomes and greater patient satisfaction.”

The pathway calls for preoperative administration of 600 mg oral gabapentin and 1,000 mg oral acetaminophen in all patients, as well as placement of 1.5 mg transdermal scopolamine in patients aged less than 60 years with multiple risk factors for PONV. Intraoperatively, the pathway recommends total IV anesthesia, minimizes opioids, uses regional anesthesia (either Pec 1 and 2 or paravertebral blocks), and PONV prevention with 8 mg IV dexamethasone and 4 mg IV ondansetron. In the PACU, patients receive opioids, ondansetron and/or lorazepam as needed.

“And then we really encourage patients to mobilize as early as possible after surgery, to make sure we decrease risks that come with immobility, such as pneumonia and DVTs [deep venous thromboses],” Dr. Harbell said.

To help determine the efficacy of the pathway, the researchers studied 350 patients undergoing total mastectomy surgeries at UCSF Medical Center between Jan. 1, 2014 and Dec. 22, 2015. The hospital’s ERAS pathway for total mastectomy was implemented on July 1, 2015.

As Dr. Harbell and the study’s lead author Catherine Chiu, BS, reported at the 2016 annual meeting of the American Society of Regional Anesthesia and Pain Medicine (abstract 1292), 65 of the 350 participants were enrolled in the ERAS pathway; the two groups were demographically similar. After implementation of the pathway, the researchers found significant increases in many perioperative treatment parameters, including the number of patients who received preoperative acetaminophen (from 17% to 89%; P<0.001), preoperative gabapentin (from 12% to 85%; P<0.001), preoperative scopolamine (from 23% to 72%; P<0.001), intraoperative nerve blocks (from 19% to 85%; P<0.001) and intraoperative total IV anesthesia (from 7% to 28%; P<0.001).

The pathway also significantly increased perioperative time by five minutes (P=0.008), but did not change PACU recovery time.

“I think there was some initial concern that placement of a regional block would add a substantial amount of time to the procedure,” Dr. Harbell said. “But we didn’t find any difference in the length of time that it took from when you entered the operating room to the time you left, excluding surgical time. It’s nice to know that what we’re doing is not making a negative impact on the flow of the day, but at the same time is adding patient benefit.”

Median perioperative opioid consumption significantly decreased with enrollment in the ERAS pathway, from 34.2 mg IV morphine equivalents to 21.4 mg. ERAS patients also reported a one-point reduction in postoperative pain (0-10 numeric rating scale). Finally, PONV—defined as the need for administration of any antiemetic—significantly decreased with ERAS enrollment, from an incidence of 50% to 8%.

“We found that the biggest decrease in opioid consumption was actually in the PACU period,” Dr. Harbell said. “Yet it’s hard to know which intervention is adding the most in the recovery period; it’s probably the combination of everything.”

With these positive results, Dr. Harbell was quick to recommend that other institutions consider implementing similar pathways for women undergoing total mastectomy. “I think the parts of our pathway that we highlight can definitely be instituted everywhere,” she said, “and that’s what’s nice about the pathway that we’ve developed.”

Yet success goes well beyond following steps on a flowchart. Indeed, the foundation of a healthy ERAS pathway, she explained, is interdisciplinary collaboration. “We’re very lucky in that our surgeons and other perioperative health care providers are supportive of the pathway. I think that’s partly why we’ve been successful: It’s not just anesthesiology working in isolation. You have to engage the other care members and make sure everyone has a chance to provide input. It definitely makes things run much more smoothly.”

Dr. Harbell added, “Of course, you have to figure out what works best for your institution, because what works for one group may not work for another, depending on the infrastructure and resources they have available.”

Joseph Myers, MD, associate professor of anesthesiology and chief of obstetric anesthesia at Georgetown University, in Washington, D.C., told Anesthesiology News that Dr. Harbell has formalized a classic ERAS strategy for mastectomy patients: List potential problems, choose evidence-based solutions and then create a protocol for consistency. “Avoiding or reducing the use of opioids is difficult since their use has become so dogmatic,” he said. “But there are so many alternatives. We need to learn to trust their effectiveness.

“By involving the surgical team in the postoperative analgesic plan, with the placement of the nerve block, our combined efforts benefit the patient tremendously,” said Dr. Myers. “I find that the surgical team will gladly collaborate with us, if only we ask. It’s important that anesthesia leads the way in this regard.”
—Michael Vlessides


http://www.anesthesiologynews.com/M...ONV-Following-Total-Mastectomy/36353/ses=ogst
 
I'm getting old; she looks so young in the video but that probably speaks more to my age than hers.;) Noy, please notice that despite the addition of these "blocks" Pain scores only decreased by 1 from 6 to 5 so not a lot of reduction for the work/risk involved. Still, you may see more requests for Pecs1 and Pecs 2 in the near future.

 
Noy, please notice that despite the addition of these "blocks" Pain scores only decreased by 1 from 6 to 5 so not a lot of reduction for the work/risk involved. Still, you may see more requests for Pecs1 and Pecs 2 in the near future.


A reduction of 1 means nothing. It's placebo.
I boluses an thoracic apidural yesterday in a pt that wasn't getting the expected pain relief. Her pain went from 7-6. That's not a positive response. I pulled the epidural and replaced it. Her pain went from 6-0. That is a positive response.
 
A reduction of 1 means nothing. It's placebo.
I boluses an thoracic apidural yesterday in a pt that wasn't getting the expected pain relief. Her pain went from 7-6. That's not a positive response. I pulled the epidural and replaced it. Her pain went from 6-0. That is a positive response.

Don't shoot the messenger but the trend will be to use these blocks and I have simply shown you the "studies" are out there with more on the way.
 
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I've done both PEC 1/2 and serratus for mastectomies. I think they're relatively equivalent in terms of pain relief and covering the chest wall. The blanco paper shows the dermatomal distribution covering the anterior chest wall. I prefer the SAB in practice because the depth required is less and the muscular layers are much thinner making the block easier to visualize, plus it's one less injection vs doing both PEC 1/2. The risk of pneumothorax is there for both but I feel the SAB is less likely.
SAB vs. thoracic epidural, yeah no kidding the epidural works better it's a catheter. I want to try placing SAB catheters after the procedure and compare them, the patient's already positioned and it wouldn't take long. I think this would be better because the catheter won't get shut off everytime there's a little hypotension when they're inpatient and you know they're not going to give fluids
And I prefer to do the PEC2 first, the withdraw and do PEC1. If PEC1 is done first any air injected can just create a messier picture. I think this leads to less needling too, if you watch in the the second video the person has to withdraw after the PEC1 and readjust to get back near the rib
 
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I like to do the intercostal ramus block in the midaxillary line (not sure if is the same as the serratus, in spanish is called "BRILMA"). That takes care of the skin and mamary gland. Is fairly easy and really fast with US. I do it before induction with the patient on his side. The PEC 1 is just for the pectoral, so you shouldnt need it if the surgery doesnt cut/lift muscle. PEC 2 I've heard is bullcrap :p
 
I like to do the intercostal ramus block in the midaxillary line (not sure if is the same as the serratus, in spanish is called "BRILMA"). That takes care of the skin and mamary gland. Is fairly easy and really fast with US. I do it before induction with the patient on his side. The PEC 1 is just for the pectoral, so you shouldnt need it if the surgery doesnt cut/lift muscle. PEC 2 I've heard is bullcrap :p

Yes, Brilma is a type of serratus plane block. Blanco and others have described the technique of either placing the local between the latissimus Dorsi and the serratus anterior or placing the local underneath the serratus muscle just above the rib. I appreciate your post.

 
Does anyone have an opinion of whether the injection above or below the Serratus Anterior provides superior analgesia?



The original study looked at this and the same analgesia with better duration above the serratus and clearly better safety profile above as well.
 
The original study looked at this and the same analgesia with better duration above the serratus and clearly better safety profile above as well.
A pretty famous spanish anatomist and regionalist (Dr. Fajardo, I think) recommends that you make contact with the rib, and then administer the LA, separating the muscle from the rib. I usually do it this way and you always get the "correct" spread of LA (a rectangular anechoic band), the clinical result is very good, it takes fewer attempts and the the risk of passing through the pleura is minimized.
 
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A pretty famous spanish anatomist and regionalist (Dr. Fajardo, I think) recommends that you make contact with the rib, and then administer the LA, separating the muscle from the rib. I usually do it this way and you always get the "correct" spread of LA (a rectangular anechoic band), the clinical result is very good, it takes fewer attempts and the the risk of passing through the pleura is minimized.
Blanco recommended the superficial approach in his original study. I do it this way. The spread seperating lat dorsi from serratus below it is great and the block works very well. Most importantly for me, I'm nowhere near the pleura. In addition, in Blanco's study, they looked at duration for anterior vs posterior approach and anterior is actually longer (and safer).
 
Blanco recommended the superficial approach in his original study. I do it this way. The spread seperating lat dorsi from serratus below it is great and the block works very well. Most importantly for me, I'm nowhere near the pleura. In addition, in Blanco's study, they looked at duration for anterior vs posterior approach and anterior is actually longer (and safer).

You are correct. Please see table 3 from Blanco's study to show duration of analgesia is significantly longer if the local is injected between the LD and the SA muscles.

Serratus plane block: a novel ultrasound-guided thoracic wall nerve block - Blanco - 2013 - Anaesthesia - Wiley Online Library
 
Bump
I did my first dozen serratus blocks the last couple of weeks for partial mastectomies. About 30cc of 0.5% ropi with dex. Every single one provided enough surgical anesthesia to be done under some light to moderate sedation with zero local supplementation by surgeon. I am a big fan.
 
Anyone out there been doing erector spinae’s for breast cases? Results??
 
I am also doing SA plus PEC 1 blocks....the analgesia seems to be much more profound than the PEC 1 + 2 block. This is also the impression of the surgeons.
 
Anyone out there been doing erector spinae’s for breast cases? Results??

My understanding is that even the erector spinae misses midline so needs to be supplemented with a pecs 1 and if you're going to do that, then it's better to just leave them supine and do SA/pecs1.
 
I prefer chest wall blocks like Serratus Anterior or Pecs2 and 1 over Erector Spinae for Breast Surgery. I think the analgesia is more consistent from patient to patient.
 
Bump
I did my first dozen serratus blocks the last couple of weeks for partial mastectomies. About 30cc of 0.5% ropi with dex. Every single one provided enough surgical anesthesia to be done under some light to moderate sedation with zero local supplementation by surgeon. I am a big fan.

So, would the addition of a Pecs1 block provide better analgesia? Or, is the Sereatus Anterior sufficient by itself? Some believe if the Pecs muscles themselves are not removed the Serratus Anterior Block is all you need to do.
 
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