Brooklyn Hospital Center

[Pr0digy1]

Hey all,

I am a somewhat frequent poster on this forum, so I have created this username to remain anonymous.

As the end of the residency cycle draws nearer, and the time to make rank lists is upon us, I would like to ask for information from anyone who can help me. I recently interviewed at the Brooklyn Hospital Center's EM program in Fort Greene, Brooklyn, and thought the interview went very well. However, I have heard very mixed things about the program from other applicants, and I feel like the very few residents present on interview day were somewhat cagey about the program in general. I have a bunch of other NY programs that I am ranking, but I prefer the 4 year programs, so this is important for me to get as much information as possible.

Is there anyone on here who is either a current resident there or a student who rotated there in EM who can give me the down-low/review about this program? What you like, what you dislike? Strengths/weaknesses of the program? And yes, I did a search and found only limited (somewhat outdated) information about the program on both scutwork and sdn, so I would like to hear from anyone who currently knows anything about it.

Thanks in advance, and I wish you all the best of luck in the upcoming match!

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[DocEspana]

Was just discussing brooklyn hospital with one of my coresidents last night. They had rotated there as a student and were considering matching there, but ranked mine much higher and went there. I was also interviewed there and chose not to rank them.

We both basically agreed that its a pretty undesirable program except for the location. I had a really bad impression of it from the interview and that sealed the deal for me. The other resident said they were put off by the residents basically doing lines and nurses work all day and never getting to think. Also she talked very poorly of all the ancillary staff in other aspects.

Me personally I wouldnt rank there unless you dont have a lot of interviews, and in that case I would strongly consider how happy youd be there compared to other places given its a pretty tough program to be in (and even the residents admit that). I'm at a NYC program and I love my ancillary staff and how much they handle nearly everything for me. but my n=1 here. Im sure other people have different (and similar) opinions to add.

 

[swamprat]

I almost DNRed them. Run down facilities, small # of residents, I personally didn't love the idea of living in Brooklyn. I also didn't get the greatest vibe from interview day. Oh and it's a 4 year which I didn't want either. Ended up ranking them last figuring Id rather be there then not an ER doc. Good luck.

 

[triguy358]

I did an audition there my fourth year. Unlike doxy, I would have rather done IM than match there. And I don't like IM. at all.

My shift was highly dependent on who I worked with. There were some really awesome people there, 2 of which will be PGY-4's there when you would start, and 1 PGY-4 who is the biggest jerk in EM I have ever met. Spent most of his time belittling students and hitting on the good looking girl med student. The same resident shamelessly hit on the female students, and admitted to thinking some of them were better based off of their looks. This is somewhat bad by itself, but I was annoyed because some of these students were not good students at all, and I felt like my hard work was overlooked for some BS.

There is very mixed morale. There was one resident who was off to a rocky start on their intern year, not incompetent, just lacking some confidence, and the other residents talked non-stop crap about them, heckled them during their presentations at didactics, and overall were extremely degrading. That was a HUGE red flag for me, and the other med students were repulsed by this. You should be supporting your co-residents. This isn't surgery. I also witnessed one of the attendings yelling at a fourth year resident for a mistake he made. In front of everybody. Basically told him he wouldn't be fit to practice when he graduated in a few months. The current PGY-2 class are all cool. Very nice, helpful, seemed to have a little more camaraderie than the rest of the program. maybe things have changed for the better in that regard, hard to say.

There were some shifts I would see as little as 2 patients. The rest of the time I would be drawing labs on random pts, hooking up the EKG machine and getting EKGs on random pts, transporting random pts to CT and back. Basically a free ED tech for their department. The actual techs would sit in the asthma room chairs and yell at you for not doing their job right. I sh## you not. The residents probably had us doing that stuff because they knew the techs wouldn't do their job and an eager med student would. I found that very wrong.

The PD was actually a really cool guy. Very nice, connected well with his residents and students, and seemed to really value them as a team. The other attendings were hit or miss. Some were excellent. Some were terrible. The didactics were OK. They expected us to dress up. slacks, button down, the more formal the better. Not my style really. Not most people's style. Made me wonder about the overall culture of that program, in terms of how they view formality vs. practicality.

The other students there felt the same way I did. Basically, there are a few redeeming people there, sick patients, terrible staff, but overall it was borderline malignant for an EM program and we would not consider going there for that reason. 2-3 of the other students liked it but had few interviews and seemed desperate to just match EM anywhere. Most of those ended up matching EM elsewhere. This was 20 months ago, so things may be changing for the better, but I would really choose carefully here.

In terms of actual training, I would imagine you would get fine training at BH. Lots of pathology. Hard and long shifts with a very high patient volume, sick people. You can staff a fast track type area (which is still fairly sick) and a separate area, and you will see tons. There is a University across the street so you get the rich white kids. Fort greene will give you the rich white hipsters/yuppies, but you will also get the urban population (majority) too. I think the cops who got shot in NYC a month ago were taken to BH. There is some trauma for sure, and a great trauma bay to practice it in. Brooklyn living is awesome. Expensive, but awesome.

Unsurprising to me, BH had either 33% or 25% of all the unfilled spots in the country last year. They graduate some bad apple's and get their ancillary staff in line and it would go from unranked to among the top. but until then choose wisely.

 

[Smiths11]

I did an audition there my fourth year. Unlike doxy, I would have rather done IM than match there. And I don't like IM. at all.

My shift was highly dependent on who I worked with. There were some really awesome people there, 2 of which will be PGY-4's there when you would start, and 1 PGY-4 who is the biggest jerk in EM I have ever met. Spent most of his time belittling students and hitting on the good looking girl med student. The same resident shamelessly hit on the female students, and admitted to thinking some of them were better based off of their looks. This is somewhat bad by itself, but I was annoyed because some of these students were not good students at all, and I felt like my hard work was overlooked for some BS.

There is very mixed morale. There was one resident who was off to a rocky start on their intern year, not incompetent, just lacking some confidence, and the other residents talked non-stop crap about them, heckled them during their presentations at didactics, and overall were extremely degrading. That was a HUGE red flag for me, and the other med students were repulsed by this. You should be supporting your co-residents. This isn't surgery. I also witnessed one of the attendings yelling at a fourth year resident for a mistake he made. In front of everybody. Basically told him he wouldn't be fit to practice when he graduated in a few months. The current PGY-2 class are all cool. Very nice, helpful, seemed to have a little more camaraderie than the rest of the program. maybe things have changed for the better in that regard, hard to say.

There were some shifts I would see as little as 2 patients. The rest of the time I would be drawing labs on random pts, hooking up the EKG machine and getting EKGs on random pts, transporting random pts to CT and back. Basically a free ED tech for their department. The actual techs would sit in the asthma room chairs and yell at you for not doing their job right. I sh## you not. The residents probably had us doing that stuff because they knew the techs wouldn't do their job and an eager med student would. I found that very wrong.

The PD was actually a really cool guy. Very nice, connected well with his residents and students, and seemed to really value them as a team. The other attendings were hit or miss. Some were excellent. Some were terrible. The didactics were OK. They expected us to dress up. slacks, button down, the more formal the better. Not my style really. Not most people's style. Made me wonder about the overall culture of that program, in terms of how they view formality vs. practicality.

The other students there felt the same way I did. Basically, there are a few redeeming people there, sick patients, terrible staff, but overall it was borderline malignant for an EM program and we would not consider going there for that reason. 2-3 of the other students liked it but had few interviews and seemed desperate to just match EM anywhere. Most of those ended up matching EM elsewhere. This was 20 months ago, so things may be changing for the better, but I would really choose carefully here.

In terms of actual training, I would imagine you would get fine training at BH. Lots of pathology. Hard and long shifts with a very high patient volume, sick people. You can staff a fast track type area (which is still fairly sick) and a separate area, and you will see tons. There is a University across the street so you get the rich white kids. Fort greene will give you the rich white hipsters/yuppies, but you will also get the urban population (majority) too. I think the cops who got shot in NYC a month ago were taken to BH. There is some trauma for sure, and a great trauma bay to practice it in. Brooklyn living is awesome. Expensive, but awesome.

Unsurprising to me, BH had either 33% or 25% of all the unfilled spots in the country last year. They graduate some bad apple's and get their ancillary staff in line and it would go from unranked to among the top. but until then choose wisely.

Despite the misgivings, do you or anyone else have comments regarding the SLOE from this program? If the PD is cool then I am hoping it shouldn't be an issue as long as I work hard, but these comments are concerning.

 

[KetoMike]

Current PGY1 EM resident @ the Brooklyn Hospital Center and I would like to put in my two cents. Our program has gone through major changes in the last few years and continues to grow and become stronger each and everyday. I ranked this place number 1 (of 15 programs) and if I could go back, I would do it again 100x over. In regards to statements made above by posters, I think they reflect the programs past, and not its current state or future.

In regards to ancillary staff, our nurses and techs work incredibly hard and I do not have to draw most of my labs. In order to maintain the very important skill of starting lines quickly and knowing how to manage all aspects of my patients care, I do draw my own labs on critically ill patients (mainly blue zone patients). If I had to put a percentage on it, I'd say I draw 5-10% of my own labs; my attendings who trained at Brooklyn before me would probably say they drew 90% of their own labs. Sometimes I worry if our ancillary staff continues to get stronger, the residents will lose an important edge that previous residents had which is the ability to handle anything that is thrown at them under the toughest conditions.

In regards to run down facilities, yea our ED is def not the biggest (or the cleanest), BUT we just got $25 million dollars to renovate and expand our ED and this goes into effect this month starting with the waiting rooms. Also, I think it is important to mention that the run down facilities will not bother you once you work here and realize it is not where you are working but the people you work with who make the experience.

And that brings me to the people: they are amazing. When we got our new PD Dr. Williams (note: female PD, not male PD like previous poster mentioned) along with her came an entirely new team of 15 faculty members, many of whom graduated from our program. They are not malignant in the least bit and are very supportive of the residents and their education. They are our mentors, our teachers, and our friends and I could not ask for a better crew to work with. Dr. Williams is a visionary and pushes us to be our best; she does not expect us to push patients and takes time to teach and make the program its absolute best. Our Chair Dr. De Souza (also a female) is the hardest working physician you will meet and has the biggest heart and supports her staff and residents no matter what. Our APD Dr Thompson (also a female!!) is so honest and open with all the residents and is beyond committed to resident wellness. With the 3 of them in charge, this program is unstoppable.

Our residents are incredibly kind individuals who love the patient population and work their absolute hardest to give them the best care. I have never seen a senior yell at a student or another resident and if they did this would be totally and utterly unacceptable. This may have happened in the past, but if it ever happened today, it would be brought to an immediate halt. Our crew is very supportive of each other and those who come work in our ED. We love our rotating students and I take every chance I have to teach them how to do a cool procedures, discuss interesting cases, or teach them how to use the ultrasound machine. Also, I have witnessed our own faculty helping our rotating students get interviews at other programs to increase their chances of matching into EM. I think that really goes to show how much we support the students long term success.

As far as the size of the program, I think having 8 per year is the perfect number. Some of our attendings who trained at larger academic programs tell us on regular basis that they didn’t get as much feedback and personalized attention as we do. The small class size is a strength and not a weakness in my eyes. Also we are not a “cliquey” group because there are not that many of us. We all know, respect, and love one another.

In regards to our program being very formal and requiring us to dress up in slacks, dress shirt, and tie - this cracked me up. It is just so not the case anymore; We are a very casual crew. When we need to look cute though, we rise to the occasion.

I think what is most important to me and confirmation that I made the right decision to come to Brooklyn is this: I look at my seniors who are about to leave and think “Man ... if I am that good when I leave, I will be happy”. In the end of the day, that is what matters the most to me. Already as an intern, I have learned so much and become more and more independent with each shift. I almost have my required number of ultrasound scans to graduation (for the entire 4 years….in just half a year). I have done many intubations, central lines, LPs, etc… I am seen as a valued member of the team and I love coming to work everyday. I could not have asked for a better experience and I look forward to the next 3.5 years to come.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

a couple days before rank lists go out and a Brooklyn Hospital "intern" suddenly pops out of the woodwork to extoll how wonderful their perpetually on probation program is? what a coincidence.

 

[miacomet]

Current PGY1 EM resident @ the Brooklyn Hospital Center and I would like to put in my two cents. Our program has gone through major changes in the last few years and continues to grow and become stronger each and everyday. I ranked this place number 1 (of 15 programs) and if I could go back, I would do it again 100x over. In regards to statements made above by posters, I think they reflect the programs past, and not its current state or future.

In regards to ancillary staff, our nurses and techs work incredibly hard and I do not have to draw most of my labs. In order to maintain the very important skill of starting lines quickly and knowing how to manage all aspects of my patients care, I do draw my own labs on critically ill patients (mainly blue zone patients). If I had to put a percentage on it, I'd say I draw 5-10% of my own labs; my attendings who trained at Brooklyn before me would probably say they drew 90% of their own labs. Sometimes I worry if our ancillary staff continues to get stronger, the residents will lose an important edge that previous residents had which is the ability to handle anything that is thrown at them under the toughest conditions.

In regards to run down facilities, yea our ED is def not the biggest (or the cleanest), BUT we just got $25 million dollars to renovate and expand our ED and this goes into effect this month starting with the waiting rooms. Also, I think it is important to mention that the run down facilities will not bother you once you work here and realize it is not where you are working but the people you work with who make the experience.

And that brings me to the people: they are amazing. When we got our new PD Dr. Williams (note: female PD, not male PD like previous poster mentioned) along with her came an entirely new team of 15 faculty members, many of whom graduated from our program. They are not malignant in the least bit and are very supportive of the residents and their education. They are our mentors, our teachers, and our friends and I could not ask for a better crew to work with. Dr. Williams is a visionary and pushes us to be our best; she does not expect us to push patients and takes time to teach and make the program its absolute best. Our Chair Dr. De Souza (also a female) is the hardest working physician you will meet and has the biggest heart and supports her staff and residents no matter what. Our APD Dr Thompson (also a female!!) is so honest and open with all the residents and is beyond committed to resident wellness. With the 3 of them in charge, this program is unstoppable.

Our residents are incredibly kind individuals who love the patient population and work their absolute hardest to give them the best care. I have never seen a senior yell at a student or another resident and if they did this would be totally and utterly unacceptable. This may have happened in the past, but if it ever happened today, it would be brought to an immediate halt. Our crew is very supportive of each other and those who come work in our ED. We love our rotating students and I take every chance I have to teach them how to do a cool procedures, discuss interesting cases, or teach them how to use the ultrasound machine. Also, I have witnessed our own faculty helping our rotating students get interviews at other programs to increase their chances of matching into EM. I think that really goes to show how much we support the students long term success.

As far as the size of the program, I think having 8 per year is the perfect number. Some of our attendings who trained at larger academic programs tell us on regular basis that they didn’t get as much feedback and personalized attention as we do. The small class size is a strength and not a weakness in my eyes. Also we are not a “cliquey” group because there are not that many of us. We all know, respect, and love one another.

In regards to our program being very formal and requiring us to dress up in slacks, dress shirt, and tie - this cracked me up. It is just so not the case anymore; We are a very casual crew. When we need to look cute though, we rise to the occasion.

I think what is most important to me and confirmation that I made the right decision to come to Brooklyn is this: I look at my seniors who are about to leave and think “Man ... if I am that good when I leave, I will be happy”. In the end of the day, that is what matters the most to me. Already as an intern, I have learned so much and become more and more independent with each shift. I almost have my required number of ultrasound scans to graduation (for the entire 4 years….in just half a year). I have done many intubations, central lines, LPs, etc… I am seen as a valued member of the team and I love coming to work everyday. I could not have asked for a better experience and I look forward to the next 3.5 years to come.

That 5-10% of the time you draw your own labs is wasted time. You are not training to be a nurse or tech. This is why these programs are four years- too much scut still.

I hope the rest of what you say continues. Bad NY programs are a dime a dozen and they aren't doing their residents any favors.

 

[KetoMike]

a couple days before rank lists go out and a Brooklyn Hospital "intern" suddenly pops out of the woodwork to extoll how wonderful their perpetually on probation program is? what a coincidence.

OMG so agressive; anyone who rotated with us or interviewed with us (I gave 90% of the tours this year; which is always done by an intern) knows that username "ketomike" is indeed an intern at the Brooklyn Hospital Center. Also anything I say now is not for the rank list that goes out in a couple of days, but instead for people next year who research our program for externships or interviewing. I care about my program and I just wanted to give my opinion to help people figure out if this is where they want to be. Also our program is not on probation (it was in the past, you are absolutely correct) and has continued accreditation for the next 10 years.

 

[KetoMike]

That 5-10% of the time you draw your own labs is wasted time. You are not training to be a nurse or tech. This is why these programs are four years- too much scut still.

I hope the rest of what you say continues. Bad NY programs are a dime a dozen and they aren't doing their residents any favors.

I would be so upset with myself if a nurse or tech could not get a line and asked me to put in a peripheral line and I couldn't either A) Do it the old school way B) Do with ultrasound guidance C) Do an EJ. I think it just looks bad. I should master the ABCs and I thought part of the C was that I can establish a peripheral line in an emergency ASAP. Also I do the lines while I'm sitting in front of the patient and getting their HPI and I actually think its a great way to bond with them sometimes. I saw a lady with hyperemesis gravidarum tonight who was tearful and upset and I sat on her bed, calmed her down and took her HPI while I personally drew her blood...I totally did not have to draw her blood but I kinda wanted to and I could tell she appreciated it. I was happy to do it. The scut is not in leu of seeing patients; it is me leaning to multitask. This is what I think is actually great about the NYC programs.

 

[PharmaBr0]

Who posts on these threads?

 

[miacomet]

I would be so upset with myself if a nurse or tech could not get a line and asked me to put in a peripheral line and I couldn't either A) Do it the old school way B) Do with ultrasound guidance C) Do an EJ. I think it just looks bad. I should master the ABCs and I thought part of the C was that I can establish a peripheral line in an emergency ASAP. Also I do the lines while I'm sitting in front of the patient and getting their HPI and I actually think its a great way to bond with them sometimes. I saw a lady with hyperemesis gravidarum tonight who was tearful and upset and I sat on her bed, calmed her down and took her HPI while I personally drew her blood...I totally did not have to draw her blood but I kinda wanted to and I could tell she appreciated it. I was happy to do it. The scut is not in leu of seeing patients; it is me leaning to multitask. This is what I think is actually great about the NYC programs.

I don't think a nurse has asked me to draw blood in 15 years. They do it all day. They are better at it. They do US-guided IVs and EJs as well. Why would they ever ask you to put in an IV in a functional ER? Are you going to do all your IVs as an attending? No? Then you will lose skills and not be as good as the nurses. Thus it is a waste of your time and energy. You could make the same argument for putting in all your own foleys, performing all your own ECGS, and transporting patients.

You are not studying nursing, or tech-ing.

Multitasking is important. But the average ED doc is busy with multiple non-nursing tasks. Learning nursing is not an important task.

Also, why is almost everyone an IMG? Are you informally pre-matching people? Why don't you want American grads? And why don't they clean your ER? That's disturbing.

 

[Psai]

Who posts on these threads?

Sounds like a chief or pd

No intern is going to go to bat for their program like this, they just don't have enough buy in since they're struggling with all the scut that goes with intern year (even more so since they are an intern)

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Yeah you do a bunch of ultrasound lines on your ultrasound rotation. Doing them on a busy shift is just a waste of time. No one else can do your job the charge nurse and the phelebotomist can draw blood perfectly well. Also if you need emergency access then you do a central line or an IO not a peripheral line.