Brown PLME Versus Case Western PreProf

[snikkirs]

Hey...I'm trying to decide between Brown's PLME and Case Western's equivalent (The PreProfessional Scholars Program in Medicine (7 or 8 years)). Could anyone give any fresh insights between these 2 schools? I just visited both of them, and am now torn between the two because I liked both. For the record, I'm 99% sure I want to be a doctor. Although Case has a reputation for not having the happiest students and Brown having very happy students, I'm pretty sure I can have fun at any place, and during my visit I met people I knew I'd get along with well. I KNOW Brown does have the better name, and better undergraduate resources and experiences, but Case's Med School is just a LOT better I think,with M.D./M.B.A.and M.D./J.D. programs, more NIH research funds allocated, a Primary Care Track, AND they gave me a nice scholarship. But, why have Case's med school ratings slipped over the past few years? Is it because Cleveland Clinic might open their own med school? Or are there other reasons? On the other hand, Brown's ranking has gone up, although I haven't read very much positives about its med school on these discussion boards. In addition, Brown's matches seemed better than Case's, and Brown has a great new president, Ruth Simmons, who seems to be taking the school in a good direction. Any thoughts on comparisons between the med schools? Case also has a core curriculum, Brown doesn't. But Case is in Cleveland, and Brown is in Providence...Help? Thanks, and I appreciate any comments.

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[HairlessHeart]

Hey snikkers,

I don't know much about Brown, so I'm afraid I can't be of too much help there (although it sounds like a nice place from what you said). Out of curiosity, what was Providence like? I've been to Bristol along the coast and thought it was pretty charming.

However, I have spent the last four years at CWRU and as my 1st choice, will spend another four at the med school. I really like the med school. The curriculum and their general attitude really fit my personality well. I also liked the idea of having afternoons off for electives and study. The big negative is cost: 35K for tuition (higher by the time you get here)...but that doesn't concern me as much as others.

But I'm going to be brutally honest with you. CWRU med as a first choice for a CWRU alum is not all that common (at least this year). This has to do with the undergrad experience. Like you, I took the attitude going in that I can be happy at any place, and it worked for me. Many others were not so happy. You should know that CWRU does not provide the typical "college" atmosphere that I've seen at other places like OSU, Ohio U, and Miami. Students are generally pretty serious, and there are a heck of a lot of engineers.

What turned me off most over the past four years was the general aura of negativity and self-hatred amongst my classmates. By this year, all the bitter, moping complainers and whiners on the undergrad campus has gotten to be pretty old. I don't blaim the university for their attitude, I blame the students. Now this isn't everybody. You have to be picky about who you surround yourself with, otherwise you'll get sucked in.

I hope I didn't scare you too much, but I wanted to give you a brutally honest opinion. No matter where you go, it's all about your attitude. My best advice is to go with your gut. Logic isn't infallible, especially on a personal decision like this.

 

[Legend]

Here is an option.

Go to Brown PLME and then apply out.

 

[ValleyGal]

Yuck = cleveland
Yay = providence

 

[Legend]

Providence is in the final stage of 'Beautiful Providence' project.

I am a senior at Brown and will be graduating in a month. When I was a freshman, Providence really sucked. However, Providence now has the biggest mall in New England, awesome cinema, blah blah...
Downtown is really beautiful.

 

[panda01]

See my post in the Brown PLME vs. Duke pre-med for my feelings on the undergrad education at Brown. You can't beat it man--go to Brown. You'll be happy and challenged and meet amazing diverse people that don't hate themselves.

 

[leorl]

THe preprof program at CWRU is great. I am not a preprof myself, but had I known that I wanted to be a doctor for certain coming out of hs, i would probably have applied. A lot of my friends are preprofs, and on one hand we tease them about how they have to stay, but CWRU med is a great community. There's other options too...quite a few people take the year after graduation as preprofs, and just defer a year... so it's rather flexible. And you are allowed out of it, only if you want to get into another med school, you have to get above a 32 on your MCAT.

I will also have to be honest and agree with everything hairless had to say. This is why we tease those staying . However, this is true only of the undergrad population. Med school students here are WAY different, a helluva lot more fun and very engaging to talk to. The med school students don't mingle very much with the undergrad population, which for your sake is a great thing...even though it's getting better in terms of environment. There is still a lot of fun to be found and great things to do, if you know where to look.

And Hairless, who are you? I'm one of the asian twins (if that helps) still living on Northside :wink: .

 

[Sir William Osler]

for me personally, this is a no-brainer. Brown all the way. Brown is an amazing environment for college. GO TO BROWN!!! are you kidding me? lol

 

[leorl]

I forgot to address some of your Q's. Yes, the money CWRU throws at us is QUITE NICE, isn't it. If you ask any of the seniors, most of them will tell you that the money is what drew them to Case. Which isn't the greatest reason, but hey...it's awesome. Among the freshman class, you find more people who wanted to come here first choice, which is also refreshing. Case does not have the happiest undergrad students. That's because it is very demanding here, you have all your valedictorians and overachievers who were drawn by the money and think nothing of studying from Friday night to Sunday night, no break. And they generally do very well, but it also contributes to the apathy of the campus. However, like I said before, that is starting to change a lot, and they're doing a better job of recruiting "normal" people. (to give you an idea of what it was like when I was a freshman, there was a group of klingons in one of the dorms who wore capes and spoke to each other only in Klingon. They have since left, thank god, as I was almost once about to cry with the geekiness here i just couldn't see myself fitting in with . However, don't let that scare you, they're gone!) But since you'd be preprof anyway, it'll be as easy as you make it. You can choose majors that aren't the most demanding, without worries of trying to get an edge up on the MCAT or med school acceptance.

The educational opportunities here are ENORMOUS. You want to do research, you contact the PI of whatever lab you're interested in, and they're really generous about giving undergrads lab experience or jobs. My PI even gave me several publications, when I didn't even realize I was doing meaningful work . I don't really think Brown has a better name in medicine. Actually, my dad was sitting next to a Brown undergrad adcom member on the plane once, and he mentioned that we went to CWRU and the Brown guy was like "Oh, CASE?? THAT's a GREAT school!!!"

CWRU med school might have slipped because they haven't really done much to change the way things have been done in the past. I am not really certain of the reason, but it's still up there, just the med school itself is like in a 1970s building and might not have the absolute newest facilities. As far as I know, Cleveland Clinic's plan to start its own med school fell through and they are not pursuing it anymore, but I have heard very little on the subject. But there's a lot of connection between CWRU med and Cleveland Clinic. Currently behind the CWRU UH hospitals, there's a specific research facility being built.

College, wherever you go, is what you make it. Although I b***ched about the apathy here, my sis and I just go off and do our own thing. We went to Ireland on a year abroad (several other preprofs did too)and had the best time. One preprof spent the summer doing volunteer med work in Africa. Another just won a fulbright scholarship and will be going to Latin America (ecuador?) to study the medicinal benefits of rain tree frog poison/secretions. Severance Hall is right here, and CIM students often put on amazing concerts. We've gotten some great bands to come here before, too. The gym facilities are great and I think they're gonna get some new weights equipment soon.

The positives outweigh the negatives. The teaching community here is really dedicated to its undergrad students.

 

[Legend]

A word from premed adviser at Brown: "CWRU is an amazing school"

Damn. CWRU rejected me before interview.

 

[Sir William Osler]

many of the best students in the country go to brown. have you visited the school yet? I think Case is a wonderful school, but not near the quality of Brown. Brown competes with the Harvard and Yales for undergrads. Alot of what affects college quality of life is the quality of the students around you. Brown will have the Rhodes Scholars, the Fulbrights, the Churchills, etc all around you. I cant see how anyone could justify choosing CWRU unless they got a big scholarship or had family in cleveland that were sick or something of that sort. You can EASILY apply to other schools outside of Brown Med. I've known too many extraordinary students who have gone to Brown to simply let this posting go by. that's just the way i see it though. I think i'm rather objective since i dont go to either.

good luck and go to brown . you'll thank me later.

 

[Thewonderer]

The most important thing to find out is whether if you go to CWRU, you still 1) need to take MCAT in order to proceed to the medschool portion, 2) minimum GPA requirment at undergrad before being allowed to move on to the med school portion and 3) being allowed to apply out or not at the end of your undergrad years. At Brown, 1) and 2) are non-issues while 3) is allowed. If Case is the same, choosing Case over Brown is a perfectly legitimate choice.

I can understand why Case undergrads might be competitive, BUT Brown undergrads might be the same although on the surface they are relaxed. By competitive, I don't mean backstabbing but instead wanting to do the best they could. There is nothing wrong with that. I went to an Ivy for undergrad while currently at a med school that belongs to an Ivy-like-reputation private institution. At both places, I find some cool undergrad students and meet some gunners too. Some undergrads are simply stressed out! They all came in with high expectations but quickly found out after 1 semester or 2 whether to readjust they expectations or not. For exmaple, premeds who decided to attend Brown, Stanford, Duke, Columbia, Yale, etc. do not hope to attend SUNY, UConn, Eastern Carolina Univ. for med schools later on. Aspiring prelaw students are shooting for Harvard, Yale, Columbia and not Fordham or BU later on. Undergrad students at these schools will work hard to get the best grades they can and get some research + publication along the way. I don't see how Brown undergrads can be less gun-ho than CWRU undergrads. Plus, in response to another poster, the future Rhodes Scholars, the Fulbrights, the Churchills do not sit on their butts and drink beer while they are undergrads; instead, they are focused, and they will study hard, get the EC's and can be scary at times (I met a couple of them from my undergrad years; one Churchill scholar was very obnoxious in particular).

Now, everyone's experience is different. My friend at Brown's PLME program loved it! I met him abroad and both of us had a good time. The only complaint he had is that he could not wait for med school to start! However, his PLME class is also considered to be the most competitive PLME class ever (guess which year he is at now?). PLME will be filled with students selected from highschools (only a couple coming in through different routes). On the other hand, CWRU med schools will have people from different undergrads and some might even be in their 30's. It should be more diverse in that sense.

I don't see how Brown's matchlist is better than CWRU's. I was fairly impressed by Case when I interviewed at the med school a couple years earlier.

 

[leorl]

1) you do not need to take the MCAT before moving on to the med school portion. You will have to take mcat if you plan on going to a different medical school, or if you want to compete for scholarships.

2) minimum GPA is a 3.0. Yes, some preprofs have been kicked out of the program for failing to meet a 3.0, but honestly, it shouldn't be too hard.

3) apply out? you mean should you choose that medicine is not the career for you, are you allowed to drop out of the program? Yes. Are you allowed to apply to different med schools if you choose not to stay here? Yes. But I hear you need to be able to get a 32 on the MCAT to get out. I do not know this for a fact, though.

 

[Legend]

Brown undergrad is also competitive, especially for premeds. Most of science courses here give grades based on bell curves.
However, PLME students (assuming that they will go to Brown med) are free from competition. They can take all science courses pass/fail. They need only one semester of orgo.

 

[bruno 00]

brown is the bomb (that's where i went). plus, their med school rocks. even if they don't rank highly in u.s. news, their grads go on to kick ass residencies. what more could you ask for? this is a gift from the heavens, and if i were you i would thank my lucky stars and pack my bags for providence.

 

[TommyGunn04]

I have to echo panda01's comments...BROWN IS AWESOME! I love it here! PM me with any questions

 

[Legend]

As its name suggests, Brown is the only ivy league school with color. <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />

Brown rocks !!

 

[dotcb]

I went to Brown and will be going to Einstein next year. Would've been a no-brainer for me -Brown rocked. What I might do instead is just to go to Brown and then apply elsewhere (unless you are worried about just getting into med school). My experience was that just getting an acceptence is not all that hard. However, the PLME program is quite good if you kinda want to go to Brown med school. My impression of the med school is that it is quite good, just not, perhaps, amazing. I really don't have an informed opinion about it. The nice thing about the PLME program is that your pre-med experience will be quite a bit more relaxed than most pre-med students because I think you just have to get B's to move on. That's pretty cool although I think it probably did something for me to go through the experience of really having to work my butt off in pre-med. Brown is a great place, you can't go wrong with it.

 

[Legend]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by dotcb:
•I went to Brown and will be going to Einstein next year. Would've been a no-brainer for me -Brown rocked. What I might do instead is just to go to Brown and then apply elsewhere (unless you are worried about just getting into med school). My experience was that just getting an acceptence is not all that hard. However, the PLME program is quite good if you kinda want to go to Brown med school. My impression of the med school is that it is quite good, just not, perhaps, amazing. I really don't have an informed opinion about it. The nice thing about the PLME program is that your pre-med experience will be quite a bit more relaxed than most pre-med students because I think you just have to get B's to move on. That's pretty cool although I think it probably did something for me to go through the experience of really having to work my butt off in pre-med. Brown is a great place, you can't go wrong with it.•••••dotcb- I sent you a PM.

 

[dotcb]

Legi-

I tried to reply but it said your pm box is full. If you could either clear that up or send me your e-mail address I'll send you my response.

 

[Legend]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by dotcb:
•Legi-

I tried to reply but it said your pm box is full. If you could either clear that up or send me your e-mail address I'll send you my response.•••••oops..
thanks for letting me know.
btw, my email is [email protected]

 

[HairlessHeart]

Wow,

I hope we haven't scared off our original poster...

I don't know about him/her, but for my personal enlightenment I'd be interested in knowing why Brown is "the bomb" and why the med school "rocks."

Let me just say leorl's comments were pretty much right on the money.

Thanks leorl for adding completeness to my statement. I don't belive we've met, but I vaguely remember some tall asian twins in one or two of my classes. I lived on southside for three years (bad choice, maybe) and am now happily living in an apt. off-campus.

 

[Thewonderer]

Wow, some many brown supporters!

I share Hairlessheart's curiosity. I have no first-hand experience with Brown. The friends I know from Brown either like it or are neutral about it. Nobody "hates" his or her brown experience. One of them did make the comment that Brown tends to admit people who are "alternative". They are smart and have interest and talent in one particular area.

Brown med should be a good school. But, again, I was very impressed by Case med before. At the same time, the poster has some scholarships from Case to think about.

it is a tough decision for him/her!