burning through commitment on gmo

[djlucas1]

How common/easy is it to take a 4 year HPSP, do an internship, do four straight years as a GMO/FS/UMO/DMO, get out, and then go into a civilian residency? Do you do two tours for this, or just extend your first one? I'm looking at both Navy and Air Force, so answers for each service would be greatly appreciated.

Eventually I'd like to go into EM. Anyone know what it is like matching into a civillian 2-3-4 program after being out of internship for a few years?

Also, can an entering med student take a 3 year HPSP, or is that only available after you have started?

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[FliteSurgn]

In the AF, you won't have a duty station changed until you have been there for 3 years. On top of that, you must have two years left after a move. So, you'd be fairly likely to spend the entire 4 years at the same place. These numbers are for a stateside appointment. Overseas tours are different.

 

[DWP DO]

How common/easy is it to take a 4 year HPSP, do an internship, do four straight years as a GMO/FS/UMO/DMO, get out, and then go into a civilian residency? Do you do two tours for this, or just extend your first one? I'm looking at both Navy and Air Force, so answers for each service would be greatly appreciated.

Eventually I'd like to go into EM. Anyone know what it is like matching into a civillian 2-3-4 program after being out of internship for a few years?

Also, can an entering med student take a 3 year HPSP, or is that only available after you have started?

That's exactly what I did. During my transitional year, I was notified that I was not allowed to complete a residency (needs of the AF), and that I was forced to come on active duty as an emergency medicine GMO. It did not take long to get so fed up with all the mess that I just decided to get it all over with ASAP, so I stayed where I was, then at the end they kicked me out ("involuntarily separated") because I had not done a residency. Since I was involuntarily separated they had to give me "sep pay", so I ended up leaving with a big fat check in my wallet in addition to all the bad experiences. Much better off now, a much better job, making alot more money. So, unless you want to keep on putting up with all the angst associated with being a military doc, just do your time and get out. The longer you stay the more you have to put up with.

As for becoming a GMO or FS, they ( the military) are not supposed to be bringing on any docs that are not BC/BE to my understanding. I think Congress directed this several years ago after the Dayton Daily News Expose on Military Medicine entitled "Dangerous Medicine" created such a stir. If they are still bringing on GMO's, FS's and other "one year wonders", it would be both surprising and disturbing, not to mention an archaic practice.

 

[militarymd]

If they are still bringing on GMO's, FS's and other "one year wonders", it would be both surprising and disturbing, not to mention an archaic practice.

Yes, they are....especially the Navy....

 

[Heeed!]

...and that I was forced to come on active duty as an emergency medicine GMO.

WTFO??!! They can make you serve in any specialty, or was that by choice? And what's the difference between and EM GMO and a EM residency grad? I thought it TY and then straight to FS. More info on this topic por favor...

 

[GMO2003]

That's exactly what I did. During my transitional year, I was notified that I was not allowed to complete a residency (needs of the AF), and that I was forced to come on active duty as an emergency medicine GMO. It did not take long to get so fed up with all the mess that I just decided to get it all over with ASAP, so I stayed where I was, then at the end they kicked me out ("involuntarily separated") because I had not done a residency. Since I was involuntarily separated they had to give me "sep pay", so I ended up leaving with a big fat check in my wallet in addition to all the bad experiences. Much better off now, a much better job, making alot more money. So, unless you want to keep on putting up with all the angst associated with being a military doc, just do your time and get out. The longer you stay the more you have to put up with.

As for becoming a GMO or FS, they ( the military) are not supposed to be bringing on any docs that are not BC/BE to my understanding. I think Congress directed this several years ago after the Dayton Daily News Expose on Military Medicine entitled "Dangerous Medicine" created such a stir. If they are still bringing on GMO's, FS's and other "one year wonders", it would be both surprising and disturbing, not to mention an archaic practice.

I am hoping to do the same. I currently have a 2 year active duty committment that I would like to fulfill with a 2 year GMO. I would like to stay at the same duty station. Is this possible. I am hoping that the military will see that moving me will be an unecessary expense and let me stay put for my 2 years.

 

[DWP DO]

I am hoping to do the same. I currently have a 2 year active duty committment that I would like to fulfill with a 2 year GMO. I would like to stay at the same duty station. Is this possible. I am hoping that the military will see that moving me will be an unecessary expense and let me stay put for my 2 years.

Yes, unfortunately it is possible. I say "unfortunately" because I am of the opinion that the military should get up to speed with the rest of the world and only use BE/BC physicians, but that is another story.

Given the fact that the military continues to use "one year wonders", it is still quite possible for you to do this. What you do as PGY-1 should be tailored to what your future plans are for residency post-military. You will want as much credit as possible in your residency for your previous PGY-1 year. (Lest you have to repeat PGY-1) If you want FP, peds, rads, anesthesia, etc. you might wish to consider a transitional year. If you want IM or an IM subspecialty, then perhaps a prelim year in IM, or if you want a surgical specialty later on then a prelim year in surgery. Of course you will need to specifically request this in your JSGME board application. You also need to express your desire for a GMO or flight surgeon assignment. I do not foresee you having any difficulty at all doing this.

 

[iatrosB]

What you do as PGY-1 should be tailored to what your future plans are for residency post-military. You will want as much credit as possible in your residency for your previous PGY-1 year. (Lest you have to repeat PGY-1) If you want FP, peds, rads, anesthesia, etc. you might wish to consider a transitional year. If you want IM or an IM subspecialty, then perhaps a prelim year in IM, or if you want a surgical specialty later on then a prelim year in surgery.

Would the transitional year include someone who wants EM as well? How common is it to be allowed into a PGY-2 slot in a civilian residency? Would it be hard to match after being out for four years?

 

[iatrosB]

bump

 

[Informer]

Would the transitional year include someone who wants EM as well? How common is it to be allowed into a PGY-2 slot in a civilian residency? Would it be hard to match after being out for four years?

not sure about transitional year, however, i can tell you a little about pgy-2 slots

I worked at Travis AFB flight med department, I worked with 4 docs

2 of the docs spent all 4 years paying back as flight surgeons (GMO)
1 just started PGY-2 in Nuero at NYU
the other just started PGY-2 anesthesiology at UC Davis.
Both said being flight surgeons for 4 years made them a little more competitive because they have some experience under their belt. The Doc at UC Davis also mentioned one of the PD used to be an Army flight surgeon; i guess flight surgeons still "support" each other after getting out

Another doc i worked with was a FS for 2 years before matching into Derm residency through the Air Force (he just started at Wilford Hall). He said being a GMO helped him out because 1. he got more experience, 2. with his time, he was able to publish research on derm related subjects, thus making him more competitive

The final doc i worked with also ended up matching into USAF derm (as a preselect) after (!) 1 year as a FS

 

[iatrosB]

Thanks a lot for the info informer, that's good to hear.

 

[Homunculus]

The Doc at UC Davis also mentioned one of the PD used to be an Army flight surgeon; i guess flight surgeons still "support" each other after getting out

don't underestimate the brotherhood of military medicine. especially in EM, it seems like there are a lot of reservists and ex-active duty folks out there. ask around where the alumni of the military programs are, you may be pleasantly suprised.

--your friendly neighborhood use your connections caveman

 

[Heeed!]

Will someone please explain the 1 year wonder thing? I thought if you didn't match, you do a transitional year, and viola! you're a flight surgeon. Am I to understand they can use your vast medical knowlege in another specialty??

 

[DWP DO]

Will someone please explain the 1 year wonder thing? I thought if you didn't match, you do a transitional year, and viola! you're a flight surgeon. Am I to understand they can use your vast medical knowlege in another specialty??

Three species of GMO's: flight med, ER, and FP, though being used less in ER and FP these days.