MPH BUSPH's New Curriculum

[She-Hulk]

I compiled this list of known facts about BUSPH's new curriculum based on BUSPH's Town Hall Discussions on YouTube, very interesting for those interested in the workings of a public health school and for those interested in BUSPH specifically, (you get candid appraisals from students and faculty).

Broad Facts:

1. Graduate certificates will replace concentrations, there are 45 or 50 ideas for different certificates, 10 to 15 certificates will be launched initially, and then maybe more will be added.

2. New curriculum will follow a case-based approach in many instances, with increased emphasis on group work.

3. It is expected that the vast majority of MPH students will have two certificates, though a small number may have one and choose to take a lot of electives that don’t add up to another certificate.

4. Some Spring 2016 students will get the new curriculum, and some won't.


Student Concerns:

1. Some students are upset that the concentrations are going away as students have used them in the past to organize their coursework and without a primary concentration, it is unclear how advisors will be properly assigned to students.

2. Sometimes group projects/conversations aren’t very productive and there needs to be more “mediation” from faculty regarding the groups, as well as a more structured approach. (Sometimes the feedback fellow students receive from each other isn’t timely enough to improve their work).

3. Some students feel that the group work is forced, and they just want to survive the class and view the group work as an unneeded burden.

4. When students drop classes they have complained that there is too much group time, and not enough lecture time, and they feel that if they are paying high tuition to hear experts lecture them then they should get this. Similarly, other students complain not enough faculty contact.

5. Group work courses are time intensive and limit the total number of courses that students can realistically take in a given time frame. There is a huge financial pressure to take as many courses as feasible.


Faculty Concerns:

1. Not enough in-house experience with case-based teaching, faculty have been sent to other universities (Harvard and NYU apparently) to learn how to approach this teaching methodology.

2. Some faculty may need to learn new computer skills.

3. Faculty, EH (and probably Epi) faculty in particular, are very stressed with putting together the new syllabi, and there are concerns about how to put together a core epidemiology course with inputs/perspectives from several different departments. Some faculty want some of their current teaching time to be used for developing the new courses, which will launch in the Spring 2016. They are looking at hiring adjuncts to help with the teaching in the Fall of 2015 in order to give faculty protected time to work on the new curriculum, apparently the former dean of the school of public of health put money aside for this before retiring.

4. Some students are struggling with the basics in higher level courses, and don’t have experience working in teams.

5. Not enough time to assemble the new courses in the fall (for a limited launch in Spring of 2016) Harvard to a lot longer time putting together their new curriculum, BU’s approach seems to be more along the lines of an ongoing process, and not all the faculty are involved in the process, with some not understanding the reasons for the changes and the expected improvements to be derived from the changes.

6. Some classrooms are in poor condition for case-based and/or group work, shades not fixed in years (good for power points in the dark, but not discussions in a well lit room), some classroom don’t have phone-lines (not sure how that pertains but it was mentioned), and some classrooms don’t have enough space to do a PowerPoint and write on a chalk or marker board, no support for dry erase pens as faculty run from room to room looking for markers on occasion, (one faculty person said this . . . don't know whether to laugh or be concerned!)

7. Present course evaluation system is “broke”, and there is a lack of student participation in course evaluation, which might be due to a fear of ill effects if they give a poor evaluation of a course. Not sure if course evaluations are anonymous.

8. Heterogeneity in classroom, some students come from stronger backgrounds and dislike watered down introductory courses, while some other students come in with ‘scant math’ abilities and struggle with certain topics.


She-Hulk’s Bottom-Line: BUSPH’s new curriculum is not the endpoint of a finely tuned and planned transition, but a work in progress that will be significantly adjusted on the fly and the students who successfully avoid this maelstrom's as yet unmitigated pitfalls will know about the details of this process and have a plan B, and plan C, in place if, for example, they have trouble finding the right advisor or if group work somehow becomes unmanageable. Some interested in BU will be up for this challenge, others will decide that getting the MPH is challenging enough without these extra issues to deal with, and others may wait for March 11th when the public health rankings come out to further inform their decision.

If anybody knows if the length of the MPH at BU will be changed, that would be helpful info as well.

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[JewcyFruit]

I can't even "like" that, all of your hard work and everything, because it is just so anxiety producing. I'm going to send the epi coordinator an e-mail Sunday evening after reading everyone's replied.

My big questions are:

1. When does the new program start? (Note: I've read that it will not even start until Fall 2016, so incoming students in Fall 2015 will not be subject its rules, but obviously I can't substantiate that.)

Assuming we will be subject to the new rules:

2. When will the requirements for MPH graduation be published? What about the requirements for the different certificates?

3. Will do we need to declare our two certificates?

4. (As you've already asked above) Can the MPH still be completed in 1.5 years?

5. WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO ME? DOES THERAPY COME WITH THE DEGREE?

 

[She-Hulk]

I can't even "like" that, all of your hard work and everything, because it is just so anxiety producing. I'm going to send the epi coordinator an e-mail Sunday evening after reading everyone's replied.

Sorry JewcyFruit, it's not meant to be anxiety provoking, but provide some answers. For myself, it would be much more anxiety provoking to not know what is going on at a school before matriculating. The YouTube videos are pretty candid (though only viewed by a small handful of people), and provide a means to understanding the new curriculum, a viable alternative would be to email students, as opposed to faculty, who could give you the low down on what is happening, but many current student might not know, though there are some current students asking questions at the town halls (whom, by the way, looked way spaced out, as if both stunned and jealous regarding the changes, or perhaps upset that their input has not been used at this stage, though it apparently will be later, and disliking what they heard about the changes so far.)

A faculty member talking to a prospective student probably wouldn't mention their reservations with the impending changes and paradigm shift.

My big questions are:

1. When does the new program start? (Note: I've read that it will not even start until Fall 2016, so incoming students in Fall 2015 will not be subject its rules, but obviously I can't substantiate that.)

From the videos, it is very clear that a small number of Spring 2016 students will get the new curriculum, perhaps as a test run, and I am assuming that the whole thing goes live in Fall 2016. The issue for Fall 2015 incoming students is that you might be taught by adjunct faculty, not the main faculty, in certain courses, and you probably will have less opportunity/time for faculty contact as many could be super busy with the new curriculum. Also, as the core curriculum committee faculty are embracing this new paradigm, which the new dean has asked the faculty to do, then you can't help but think that psychologically there would be less commitment to the old paradigm which would be represented by the Fall 2015 entering class . . . the last class before the big changes start creeping in. Not saying it's a deal breaker, but you'll be hearing about the new curriculum all the time at BU if you matriculate this coming fall, as it will get a lot of attention. On a positive note, if you want to be a facilitator to help incoming students adjust to the new curriculum, perhaps even have some feedback regarding what you liked/didn't like with the old curriculum, you'll have a voice as it is an ongoing process.

Assuming we will be subject to the new rules:

2. When will the requirements for MPH graduation be published? What about the requirements for the different certificates?

3. Will do we need to declare our two certificates?

4. (As you've already asked above) Can the MPH still be completed in 1.5 years?

5. WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO ME? DOES THERAPY COME WITH THE DEGREE?

Well, didn't mean to cause distress, but here's a soothing bromide if not therapy: if you enter in Fall 2015 it doesn't appear that you'll have to follow the new curriculum in terms of graduation requirements (I'm 97% sure of that, so check to be sure). In fact, you might get a bonus in that the new curriculum will be offered on a limited basis to some Spring 2016 students, and maybe you could attend some of those classes if they give credit for them in the old curriculum track and if you haven't already taken them, but you likely won't get any opportunity to take new curriculum courses in the second year. This could be a bonus if the group study/case study approach doesn't work as well as planned.

Also, if math isn't your strong suit, then the old curriculum might work better for you as the course won't be "elevated" from what was there before, which anecdotally some folks who graduated complained that they didn't see a difference between the MPH and just more college and didn't understand what they were paying for.

Nonetheless, professors switching over to group work and case base study will probably be less motivated with the traditional more advanced classes which presumably won't switch over to the new curriculum until Spring/Fall 2017, unless they change all the courses at once.

You won't have the dual "certificates" listed on your transcript/resume, it will be the old concentration.

New curriculum is something to be cognizant of, if, for example, you try to make an appointment to see a professor or do a project, and you get the cold shoulder could be because they're super busy and so perseverance is key. You can see why they'd have the dean and professors contact students to get them into the Fall 2015 semester as, obviously, some students wouldn't view the situation as optimal.

2. When will the requirements for MPH graduation be published? What about the requirements for the different certificates?

According to a BUSPH town hall at the end of January, they hadn't even whittled down what the certificates will be yet, so there is a lot of work to be done in a relatively short amount of time. This is where the hiring of adjuncts to come in and teach classes comes into play.

 

[JewcyFruit]

@She-Hulk, no distress, this is nothing new to me. Thankfully I'd seen the video, at least the majority of it, a while back. I taught when getting my first MA, and took a class whose sole purpose was to teach how to make a syllabus that works. We had them due WEEKLY. I don't understand why they are whining about having to redo their classes over the next two years (because they have known about this). 18 weeks. I made over 20 syllabi. Were they perfect? Of course not. But they were solid upper level courses so I have zero sympathy.

Is it optimal? No. But I honestly don't think BUSPH c/o Fall 2016/Spring 2017 is going to be adversely affected.

 

[She-Hulk]

@She-Hulk I taught when getting my first MA, and took a class whose sole purpose was to teach how to make a syllabus that works. We had them due WEEKLY. I don't understand why they are whining about having to redo their classes over the next two years (because they have known about this). 18 weeks. I made over 20 syllabi. Were they perfect? Of course not. But they were solid upper level courses so I have zero sympathy.

Is it optimal? No. But I honestly don't think BUSPH c/o Fall 2016/Spring 2017 is going to be adversely affected.

I'm no expert and have never written a course syllabi (though that would be fun), but I think the issue is beyond just updating a syllabi, but designing new courses and designing case studies to teach the material, instead of just lecturing on a topic with power points, it really is a paradigm shift and is probably more involved than just organizing material for a lecture as they have to design these learning modules, as well as adapt them for group work projects. So, I can kinda see why they are asking for time to work on this project.

Beyond that, I get the impression that faculty kind of . . .are not so pleased with what they believe to be poor team work skills in their students, and hence the complaint that they don't know how to work in groups. They're going to try to increase group cohesiveness in the summer, for example, before a new class enters, but are unsure of how to organize students. As pretty much everybody will have a dual concentration, they could probably make manageable sized 'virtual dorms' of MPH students who have the same, or similar goals in terms of certificates.

For example, if you're interested in reproductive epidemiology and infectious disease, then you might like getting to know the 22 other MPH students who are looking at the same, or similar, certificates. Everything is moving online, and if they stick with the group work idea, then probably at some point they'll want to assign group work assignments to pre-selected cohorts of students starting on the first day, if it's the same group of students for 1.5 to 2 years, then they'll get to know each other pretty well and function collectively to accomplish a greater goal.

There are dynamics that are opposing each other. Students wants less group work and the faculty wants more, so it probably makes sense to facilitate group work as much as possible so that it doesn't consume to much time and energy. Also, I think that there is a bimodal distribution of incoming students, some are 'entry level', sometimes with poor math skills, and some people are more advanced and have other degrees, yet they want to 'elevate' all the courses, so there could be issues with some students being overwhelmed.

Is it optimal? No. But I honestly don't think BUSPH c/o Fall 2016/Spring 2017 is going to be adversely affected.[/USER]

The more Type-Bish folks looking at the situation will probably say, "hey, I like BU's style, the city, some of the research, so these changes won't affect me because I'll be happy no matter what."

The more Type-Aish/goal-oriented/obsessive compulsive folks look at the same situation will think, "I have x,y and z to accomplish during my time in grad school and as I will be optimizing my time management, and taking as many courses as I can, I want everything from the school end to be optimal as well. I am concerned that senior faculty will be spending a majority of their time ironing out the kinks in the new curriculum, and while the school needs to do this, my time is valuable as well and I'd much rather enter an established program with a proven curriculum as I'll accomplish more at such a school."

Not saying that one way is better than the other, but some people will figure that while BUSPH has multiple years to fine tune their curriculum, they'll just be going through public health school once.

 

[JewcyFruit]

I'm fairly type A, at least when it comes to my education, grades, etc. While I understand your concerns, I'm just not sure that I fully share them. The truth about grad school is that senior faculty is scarce unless they care about you. It could be their golf game, reformatting a course they've taught for 30 years, or getting a prostate exam on the quad, if you don't matter to them you're not getting face time. It's honestly as simple as that. In my previous grad programs, there were professors who wouldn't talk to MA students outside of class, and wouldn't talk to unpublished PhD students. It was wrong, but that's just how it was.

As for the group work, I have to say it's an issue that UGs should be working on, too. My school was notorious for being research, writing, project, and public speaking heavy. Apparently, at some point, Princeton Review ranked that. #T10! I agree with the faculty, as much as I loathe working in groups, this is public health and collaborative work is essential.

If you don't mind my asking, what are your plans for next year?

 

[jora]

I am no fan of groupwork due to multiple bad experiences, but what I have seen from working in hospital, lab, and NGO settings, it's unavoidable. There will always be people who will not work well with others, but the idea is that they practice working with them to get better. It's unrealistic to not want group work, and if students don't like it they are in the wrong field.
As for coursework and faculty, they are very important to me. But this isn't undergrad- expecting their time is like expecting candy from your parents. I love candy, but it's silly to expect it so often. Much of my university experience was me struggling through on my own, often learning lessons by myself because work conflicted with class and office hours. My lab director (a doctor who was chair of his department at the hospital) refused to take on grad and PhD students who needed him around.
In any case, I've listed all my concerns in a long email to my advisor. ...I'm curious to see her response lol

 

[She-Hulk]

I'm fairly type A, at least when it comes to my education, grades, etc. While I understand your concerns, I'm just not sure that I fully share them. The truth about grad school is that senior faculty is scarce unless they care about you. It could be their golf game, reformatting a course they've taught for 30 years, or getting a prostate exam on the quad, if you don't matter to them you're not getting face time. It's honestly as simple as that. In my previous grad programs, there were professors who wouldn't talk to MA students outside of class, and wouldn't talk to unpublished PhD students. It was wrong, but that's just how it was.

This may be very true in certain instances, but this perception is probably a separate issue from public health school applicants who are trying to select the right school and optimize their interaction with faculty. This is why schools tout their low faculty to student ratios because they know that this is an important factor that students look at, perhaps especially those who had bad undergrad experience. Yes, folks can have a Hunger Games mentality and say, well, 'the odds are never in our favor', but if you have a higher faculty to student ratio, your odds for having more beneficial interaction with faculty go up, even if it means just being to talk to professors after class.

Look at Yale, they have a relative small class and supposedly a good faculty to student ratio, his doubtless attracts students who really want to understand other people's perception of what field of public health. I can read any book on public health, but its memorable and thought provoking to hear an expert talk about a subject I'm interested in.

I guess because I'm applying to public health schools next year, I'm in the phase of just selecting what schools to apply to. According to wiki, BU has apparently 800 students and 150 faculty and staff, and for example, JHU has 2,056 students and and 529 full time faculty and 623 part-time faculty. Is the BU number both full-time and part-time faculty? I would have to say yes unless provided with other information, so in terms of the student to faculty ratio:

BU: 5.3 students per faculty member.
JHU: 1.78 students per faculty member.

I'll probably make a list with the student to faculty ratio for each school. Maybe not for all students, but I would guess that for a majority of students these ratios are important. By comparing these numbers, I'm also kind of assuming that BUSPH's listed faculty number is about 50%/50% full time and part-time faculty, though this may well not be the case as the school appears to be small and there may be more faculty with joint-appointments in the school of public health who have other obligations elsewhere.

The issue with new curriculum is that the listed BU student to faculty ratio will potentially get worse in reality as faculty are pressed for time to get the new curriculum going and as they hire outside adjunct faculty who might not have the same skills.

 

[She-Hulk]

I am no fan of groupwork due to multiple bad experiences, but what I have seen from working in hospital, lab, and NGO settings, it's unavoidable. There will always be people who will not work well with others, but the idea is that they practice working with them to get better. It's unrealistic to not want group work, and if students don't like it they are in the wrong field.

I think the issue is that BU students feel that how group work was approached at the school wasn't working in some cases, and a faculty member alluded to their being modules to structure the group work that need to be used.

Obviously, if you're in a group and you don't get appropriate or timely feedback required from other group members before submission of work, then this is a problem. Some students will have work experience and be able to work well in groups, (the more advanced students), and what BU is probably thinking is that the folks with better people skills can work with the students who don't like working in groups and save time for a faculty that is probably much more stretched than at other institutions.

The issue is apparently that some students feel that they paid to hear their professors' point of view, and didn't necessarily pay to hear what their fellow students have to say and do a large number of group work projects which may involve basically coaching other students with regards to collaborative work. While working in a group is a good skill to have, it's not necessarily generating new knowledge and insight for the group members. Also, group work is less efficient in terms of just pure acquisition of knowledge as you spend x percentage of time dealing with different personalities in the group and having discussions which don't generate knowledge or understanding.

How much more group work will be used? This is not known. But as one faculty person said, when students drop classes it is because they feel there is too much group time and not enough lecture time.

 

[mimiQ]

I actually like the current BU curriculum. I like how flexible it is. I know the new dean came from Columbia so he is bringing the Columbia's "certificate structure" to BU. But even at Columbia, there have been a lot of debates about the curriculum ever since it was implemented maybe 3 or 4 years ago? I heard many students complained about it when it first came out, and it has been improved some over the years. A friend of mine there right now told me that the administration is still open to students' feedback and will continue to work on the curriculum. So in this case, I imagine BU's new curriculum will face the same struggle as Columbia did, and it will take a few years for the new curriculum to reach a place where students are satisfied with it.

 

[oceanhue]

Ahhh, I'm not sure how I feel about the new curriculum. While, I understand the importance of group work... I'm just... I'm not sure how to communicate this. Regardless, I understand that within my concentration (epidemiology) group work is unavoidable. It's interesting--it'll definitely show who has both the charms and wit. If you're able to survive group work without Sparta kicking someone down a large hole, than you're set for life!

I'm fairly type A, at least when it comes to my education, grades, etc. While I understand your concerns, I'm just not sure that I fully share them. The truth about grad school is that senior faculty is scarce unless they care about you. It could be their golf game, reformatting a course they've taught for 30 years, or getting a prostate exam on the quad, if you don't matter to them you're not getting face time. It's honestly as simple as that. In my previous grad programs, there were professors who wouldn't talk to MA students outside of class, and wouldn't talk to unpublished PhD students. It was wrong, but that's just how it was.

As for the group work, I have to say it's an issue that UGs should be working on, too. My school was notorious for being research, writing, project, and public speaking heavy. Apparently, at some point, Princeton Review ranked that. #T10! I agree with the faculty, as much as I loathe working in groups, this is public health and collaborative work is essential.

If you don't mind my asking, what are your plans for next year?

Ahaha, what?!

 

[JewcyFruit]

It's been my observational experience that when professors don't want to meet with a student that anything and everything is more exciting to them than sitting in their office with said student. Personally this has never happened to me, because the party don't start 'til I walk in. I've avoided professors, but they've never avoided me. I've had friends, as an undergrad and two time grad student (soon to be third!) who just could not get a professor to give a crap at all. Egos, man.

 

[oceanhue]

It's been my observational experience that when professors don't want to meet with a student that anything and everything is more exciting to them than sitting in their office with said student. Personally this has never happened to me, because the party don't start 'til I walk in. I've avoided professors, but they've never avoided me. I've had friends, as an undergrad and two time grad student (soon to be third!) who just could not get a professor to give a crap at all. Egos, man.

That's why you gotta' Frank Underwood them. Then they'll come running! How 'bout that meeting now, eh?!

 

[She-Hulk]

So in this case, I imagine BU's new curriculum will face the same struggle as Columbia did, and it will take a few years for the new curriculum to reach a place where students are satisfied with it.

One thing that sets Columbia apart from BU is that Columbia students do a master's thesis for the MPH. Most schools do this, and it probably gives you an advantage if you want to later apply to PhD programs, (some people have explicitly said this).

Would BUSPH students now get to do a master's thesis with the new curriculum?

Time to add a master's thesis column to my school spreadsheet!

 

[jora]

I got a response from the curriculum coord of my department- looks like anyone starting this year definitely will only need 1.5 years, and will continue with the current curriculum until graduation unless they wish to take advantage of some changes


"Congratulations on your acceptance, and I’m really glad you’re already in the loop about the MPH curriculum redesign!



Sorry I took a few days to get back to you – I wanted to fact check a few of the questions you asked before responding so I was giving you the best and most updated information possible.

We will continue to offer the current MPH program (as outlined in the attached document) that you applied to along with being able to offer you some enhancements along the way that you may choose to take advantage of if you’d like to. However, since you will matriculate with the current requirements, you will retain those for the duration of your studies – your requirements will not change when the new curriculum takes effect. In some sense, you’ll be getting the best of both worlds.

The MPH program can be completed in 16 months (3 full-time spring/fall semesters). The increase in practicum hours you mentioned is going to allow MPH students an opportunity to gain more field experience before graduation. Because the Practicum is a fluid requirement and can span across semesters/summer, it wouldn’t necessarily add any additional time to the completion of your degree. If you’re concerned about that, though, you can contact the Practicum specialist in our department (Professor Winnie Roche – [email protected]) sometime during your first semester to make sure you are on track to graduate in 3 semesters. However, since the change to the practicum hours will go into effect in Fall 2016, you may choose to take on a longer practicum, but your requirement is the current one. The pilot courses that are launching next year will not affect your degree requirements if you matriculate in the fall."

 

[She-Hulk]

I compiled these major points from the February 25th, 2015 BUSPH town hall:

1. The length of the practicum has been *doubled* to 240 hours. As a faculty person said before (I think it was the new dean), the new practicum will be the big selling point for BUSPH. However, most school’s practicum hover around 200 to 300 hours, with some schools that go from 400 to 700 hours, so BUSPH is certainly not unique in terms of total number of practicum hours.

2. Problems with finding practicum placements for students. Currently, finding placements in pharmaceutical settings, for example, for the pharmacy certificate is incredibly difficult and complex. So, as everything will be a certificate now with the new curriculum, they might have to change how specific the practicum is for a given certificate. The challenge in Boston (per this faculty member) is that there are some many schools competing against each other. Students were successfully placed in the past, but the students don’t often get their first choices.

Interestingly, BUSPH only recently moved up to 112 hours from 56 hours of practicum, despite the ‘practical experience’ being a school selling point. Some faculty wanted much more than just 240 hours of practicum experience, but this possibly can’t be accommodated due to current resources and numbers of students. Additional resources will be needed.

3. Due to the new requirements, a student doing a month of practical experience in Honduras wouldn’t meet the practicum experience requirements of 240 hours. However, the faculty person in charge of the practicum says that how the hours will be counted will be “flexible” and hours can be counted differently, perhaps implying more practicum hour credits for different quality work. However, it is *preferred* that student’s have only one practicum experience, so stitching together a month in Honduras and a month elsewhere might not be allowed any longer, however, a student doing a month in Honduras might well meet the 240 hour rule as they might count time writing up what they did and a student mentioned that often times a lot of the practicum work is done remotely from home during the evenings and on the weekends.

4. On faculty person was concerned that some students are part-time and they are currently just struggling to get done what they need to do and a lot of stuff has been “added on” to the new curriculum.

5. In terms of admissions, students won’t be admitted to a department anymore, they might be asked about an initial inclination, and perhaps after taking the core courses, some students might decide upon their certificates at that point.

6. A remaining unknown is how advisors will be matched with students, something that normally happens quite early, and it is possible that students won’t get a faculty advisor until the second year, perhaps using a "staff" advisor in the first year, the school wants to move away from faculty advisors. One faculty member said that advising students takes a lot of time.

7. The associate dean said that next year will be “messy” and that they are dealing with current prospective students who already know that the process will be “messy” next year. The party-line they are selling prospective students who know about the changes is, “we’re always changing our program”, but that it is a big change and they want to make the MPH more skills based, and that faculty should sell it by saying that entering Fall 2015 students can get some of the new things. “We are going to do a dance with these students coming in next year and the following year.”

8. Career development program open to some students, mostly junior students. Not sure if there should be a waiver yet, students might have to interview to see if they can waive out of this required, (yet no credit), class.

She-Hulk’s Bottom Line: The practicum director seems like a very flexible and communicative faculty member who will work quite well with students with regards to meeting and finding some sort of practicums. The downside is that BUSPH operates on a very crowded playing field (Boston has a ton of public health schools/students competing for practicums) and students might well not get their number one choice of practicum, or even a practicum in the given field of choice, they might have to do a 'generic' practicum.


BUSPH realizes that students will ask, “Should I wait a year?”, and the party line is to do a “dance” with students and get them to come, while noting that Columbia got fewer students in the year *before* their new curriculum began.

 

[She-Hulk]

We will continue to offer the current MPH program (as outlined in the attached document) that you applied to along with being able to offer you some enhancements along the way that you may choose to take advantage of if you’d like to. However, since you will matriculate with the current requirements, you will retain those for the duration of your studies – your requirements will not change when the new curriculum takes effect. In some sense, you’ll be getting the best of both worlds.

This is how the associate dean explicitly asked faculty to sell the issue of the "messy year" coming up as an opportunity for old curriculum students to take *some* of the new stuff, but certainly not all.

The MPH program can be completed in 16 months (3 full-time spring/fall semesters). The increase in practicum hours you mentioned is going to allow MPH students an opportunity to gain more field experience before graduation. Because the Practicum is a fluid requirement and can span across semesters/summer, it wouldn’t necessarily add any additional time to the completion of your degree. If you’re concerned about that, though, you can contact the Practicum specialist in our department (Professor Winnie Roche – [email protected]) sometime during your first semester to make sure you are on track to graduate in 3 semesters. However, since the change to the practicum hours will go into effect in Fall 2016, you may choose to take on a longer practicum, but your requirement is the current one. The pilot courses that are launching next year will not affect your degree requirements if you matriculate in the fall."

What is unmentioned is that at 240 hours, BUSPH is middle of the road in terms of practicum experience for public health schools, and given that public health students are competing against each other in Boston (a lot of schools in one city), setting up practicums is difficult, and you might not get your first choice, and with the new practicum requirement, it is certainly possible you won't get a practicum in your field, but a more generic/generalized practicum experience. This info is actually per a BUSPH faculty member discussing, for example, that they currently face a lot of difficulties placing students in a pharmacy practicum, a problem that will get worse as the number of practicum hours doubled.

If you come in the Fall 2015 class, you'll have the 120 hour practicum requirement, so if you do your practicum in the second year, with the new curriculum students, I don't think they'll try and get you the 240 hours just because you want to do it, because you won't need that to graduate, they'll need to help the students for whom it's a requirement first. So, don't expect to do 240 hours of practicum if you enter in Fall 2015.

 

[She-Hulk]

One issue is that with the new practicum requirement, the double certificates, and the more intense/elevated courses, will most students be able to get done in 1.5 years? Hasn't been mentioned at all in town halls to date, some faculty alluded to students feeling overwhelmed and need to provide options regarding all of the new requirements.

 

[oceanhue]

I actually kind of like the increase in the amount of hours for the new practicum requirement. Experience trumps all, eh? I honestly think it's a good thing to get an extra hundred hours in there. Maybe someone would pick me up full-time or it'll at least make my resumé more marketable.

And it couldn't hurt to network/get more references in the process.

 

[jora]

I actually kind of like the increase in the amount of hours for the new practicum requirement. Experience trumps all, eh? I honestly think it's a good thing to get an extra hundred hours in there. Maybe someone would pick me up full-time or it'll at least make my resumé more marketable.

And it couldn't hurt to network/get more references in the process.

I mean, as an undergrad in our school's practicum, I had ten weeks to finish 100 hours +write-up of experience. It was definitely NOT my first choice, but the experience was fantastic and got me an excellent letter of recommendation.

Tbh it sounds like these town halls/unhappy students are merely a lot of students who don't understand that grad school is not undergrad. Maybe my university was more cut - throat than others, but our grad students just had to deal, and accepted it as such.
Obviously if these students are unhappy, they should choose another program.

 

[She-Hulk]

Tbh it sounds like these town halls/unhappy students are merely a lot of students who don't understand that grad school is not undergrad. Maybe my university was more cut - throat than others, but our grad students just had to deal, and accepted it as such.
Obviously if these students are unhappy, they should choose another program.

At the last town hall, it was all faculty with just one comment from one student, and it is mostly faculty outside of those whom have just finished up the four core curriculum courses. Faculty do discuss complaints students have had, and they mention problems or issues with the planned changes that they anticipate.

But, yes, . . . I'm also somewhat taken aback by the obvious lack of enthusiasm, but I think it is just that the faculty realize it is going to be a very "messy" year in that before the new curriculum is optimized, there are going to be stumbling blocks. Probably the faculty have their hands full writing grants and do research, and just dealing with this 'paradigm change' will decrease efficiency in the short term.

One other major change is that applicants apparently won't apply for a specific concentration, as they did away with the hyper-specialization of a concentration in favor of core competency in four courses, plus most doing two certificates.

 

[JewcyFruit]

5. In terms of admissions, students won’t be admitted to a department anymore, they might be asked about an initial inclination, and perhaps after taking the core courses, some students might decide upon their certificates at that point.

Due to a little (big) SOPHAS incident, I've spoken with the Dean of Admission quite a bit. You aren't actually applying to a department, you're just indicating to them what you want to do. You're accepted by the adcom, which is made of representatives from each department and you're accepted to BUSPH as a whole, so I don't understand what they are saying. He literally had to say, "Oh, okay, let's go ahead and switch your concentration right now in the system" and that was is.

6. A remaining unknown is how advisors will be matched with students, something that normally happens quite early, and it is possible that students won’t get a faculty advisor until the second year, perhaps using a "staff" advisor in the first year, the school wants to move away from faculty advisors. One faculty member said that advising students takes a lot of time.

Seriously? Boo-effing-hoo. That's your job.

 

[She-Hulk]

Due to a little (big) SOPHAS incident, I've spoken with the Dean of Admission quite a bit. You aren't actually applying to a department, you're just indicating to them what you want to do. You're accepted by the adcom, which is made of representatives from each department and you're accepted to BUSPH as a whole, so I don't understand what they are saying. He literally had to say, "Oh, okay, let's go ahead and switch your concentration right now in the system" and that was is.

Other schools have x number of students being accepted into concentration x, and then y number of students being accepted into concentration y, but with BU it has apparently been in the past, and most likely in the future, that you will be able to switch the focus. During the town hall they said that some students could, in theory, take some of the four core courses in the first semester, and then decide what certificates they want to work towards, though that will wreak havoc with the class schedules, so they want students to indicate, as much as possible, what they're interested in before hand.

 

[oceanhue]

Thanks @She-Hulk for this thread. It has really cleared up somethings for me. My main concern was that we were gonna be guinea pigs and I'm happy to see that's not the case. I might take up that 240 hour practicum, though.

 

[backwardinduction]

To be honest, as someone who attends a small liberal arts undergrad college that has always been a work in progress, I really don't want to attend a program that's being redeveloped. It sounds like the restructuring will be pretty beneficial once its settled in a few years.. but for now I'd rather attend a school that won't feel "messy" next year.

 

[nutella_lover]

Hey @She-Hulk and others!

So, I'm a current student at BUSPH and I really wanted to chime in and tell you guys my personal opinion, and what I've experienced here. First and foremost, I love this school and have never been treated with anything but mutual respect. BUSPH is a great community and every faculty/staff/student/etc I've interacted with have been nothing but helpful and honest and transparent.

Secondly, I know the faculty and staff here are super open, available and would totally answer anything you wanted to know. I really would encourage you all to call them up. I certainly did when I was applying, and they really helped me a lot. Of course I had questions and was super nervous - going to get a higher degree is a big deal!!

Lastly, I think everyone should keep an open mind - don't forget, change is a good thing! It's super healthy and everyone needs some self reflection sometimes

Thanks!