But I Love Smoking So Much...

[Ypo.]

sorry no smoker should be allowed to be a doctor.

i am amazed at the oncologists treating dying lung patients and yet they continue to smoke..if that doesn't convinve you to quit, nothing ever will

WOW. I mean WOW.

I better not EVER catch you doing anything purposefully unhealthy to your body, such as eating a candy bar, or fast food. In fact, stay away from those preservatives, too.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[nicholonious]

WOW. I mean WOW.

I better not EVER catch you doing anything purposefully unhealthy to your body, such as eating a candy bar, or fast food. In fact, stay away from those preservatives, too.

good point, you know how bad glucose is for your body.

 

[JohnHolmes]

I think I was just destined to be a smoker.

Smoking what bro?

 

[ishaninatte]

I'm just going to reiterate a point from before, because PD is here so now you're all going to start arguing that people who don't smoke are "holier-than-thou" weirdos...

I have no problem with you deciding to smoke, although I am baffled by the fact that you can be medically knowledgable and still use the single most harmful modifiable risk factor...

But, my problem with future-MDs who smoke is that some use the argument "Smoking's bad for you, but so are a lot of other things, and smoking feels so good!!!" It is totally irresponsible for a physician to spew this crap argument, as it might be interpreted by some lay-people as a medical mandate that smoking isn't any worse than a lot of other vices, so hell if it feels good do it. Smoking remains the single worst thing you can do for your health. If you want to smoke despite the fact its terrible for you, fine. But don't allow laypeople to think that smoking is no worse than "speeding" or "eating hamburgers"...that's just irresponsible...

But you are missing the significance of this argument. People do all kinds of harmful things for all kinds of reasons. My take is that someone can still choose to smoke and be a competent doctor just as someone can choose to eat McDonalds and still be a competent doctor. You obviously think otherwise, so take it up with the next smoking/overweight doctor you meet.

 

[DrTex?]

yes we all do things that are not necessarily good for us, but smoking is without a doubt the worst single thing you could do for your health. How anyone with a medical degree can still put that crap in their bodies is beyond me, but hey we all make decisions right...

I've seen some crack heads that look worse than some smokers I know. Granted, most crack heads smoke tabacco too.

 

[acidhouse303]

mad props to my man marion barry. ishaninaette, can i get some rocks for my pipe? jk

 

[Newman8r]

Under those rules, isn't anything psychoactive? Like choclate or sugar or tree bark. They all have to affect brain chemistry in some way, right? Or am i missing the distinction?

not 'anything' but chocolate does contain psychoactive compounds similar to anandomide

most people don't realize how many psychoactive compunds exist.... and no, I don't believe sugars or tree bark are considered psychoactive compounds (unless that particular variety of tree bark contains certain psychoactive compounds )

 

[Quynh2007]

.

 

[CaptainJack02]

i've stopped trying to understand my desire for cigs. it's strange: i worked at a radiation oncology dept. i saw the damn lung with the tumor mass on the CT scan, met the patient and saw hte pain, and then i went back to the computer and manipulated angles at which deadly rays of radiation enter the flesh. i saw the process from initial consultation to the final checkup. then i went home and lit up as if nothing happened. i bet it was just denial but it shows the extent to which smokers are trapped in this net.

so! if you don't want to quit, don't waste what precious time is left THINKING about quitting. either 1)quit or 2)lite up and enjoy the moment.

 

[Newman8r]

sorry, i had to comment. the only reason i stay away from smokers is that i'm allergic to smoke. it is extremely disrespectful to me when i've asked a few ppl to be at least 25 ft away from the building (especially when the are smoking right under my room window) and they say something spiteful back like "I am 35 ft in my measurement" and I can't do anything. i have gone to the hospital in the past because of this, and for this reason, i stay away. I have learned to hold my breath while going past ppl who smoke, and it helps, but still, i don't think its fair to me if only people will just obey the law and smoke at least 25 feet away from the building. i understand that it can be cold, but really, please be considerate.

sorry, for some reason this made me think of why they can't serve peanuts on airlines anymore

anyway, I guess you've never been to vegas? the whole city smells like a big cigarette to me

 

[ishaninatte]

not 'anything' but chocolate does contain psychoactive compounds similar to anandomide

most people don't realize how many psychoactive compunds exist.... and no, I don't believe sugars or tree bark are considered psychoactive compounds (unless that particular variety of tree bark contains certain psychoactive compounds )

But sugar certainly affects the brain, so thus psychoactive right. Even a good bowl of bran cereal (close to tree bark) affects the brain. Consider the extreme case of starvation. Now I would consider one who is in the final stages of starvation unfit to drive.

Anyways, all I'm saying is that to argue about what is psychoactive and what isn't psychoactive is just an issue of semantics. Tobacco and coffee, under the definition you gave earlier, are most certainly psychoactive, but that answers not the question of whether they are considered "psychoactive substances." Moreover, I think most people realize do realize that what they ingest affects their brain. For example, lots associate clearer thinking with a healthy diet. I'm guessing there is some guideline for whether or not a substance is "psychoactive," though I am much too lazy to look for any information on the topic.

 

[Newman8r]

But sugar certainly affects the brain, so thus psychoactive right. Even a good bowl of bran cereal (close to tree bark) affects the brain. Consider the extreme case of starvation. Now I would not consider one who is in the final stages of starvation unfit to drive.

Anyways, all I'm saying is that to argue about what is psychoactive and what isn't psychoactive is just an issue of semantics. Tobacco and coffee, under the definition you gave earlier, are most certainly psychoactive, but that answers not the question of whether they are considered "psychoactive substances." Moreover, I think most people realize do realize that what they ingest affects their brain. For example, lots associate clearer thinking with a healthy diet. I'm guessing there is some guideline for whether or not a substance is "psychoactive," though I am much too lazy to look for any information on the topic.

It's hard to give the definition, I'm just going by the definition in the book... OK, everything that you consume can potentially effect the way your body as a whole works - but most of the effects of something like a sugar are sympathomimetic-like. Although in some way, it does effect neuron function and sodium/potassium pumps - most people would probably agree that psychoactive compounds more directly affect neurotransmitter function. Of course, you have things like caffeine and volatile solvents, which affect most of the cells in the body (adenosine receptors in the case of caffeine, and the effect on cellular membrane stability in the case of volatile solvents)

So a way to rule out, possibly, things that aren't possibly psychoactive, would be to initially rule out non-lipid-soluble compounds that cannot cross the blood brain barrier.

The medical definition, however, is as follows: "Possessing the ability to alter mood, anxiety, behaviour, cognitive processes, or mental tension; usually applied to pharmacologic agents. "

The argument that most people don't think of things such as nicotine as psychoactive simply reiterates the fact that people don't understand many of the things that they see and experience every day. Nobody who understands the the actual mechanism of action of nicotine would deny that it is a very psychoactive compound - the upregulation and downregulation of endogenous neurotransmitter, and the effect in the limbic system is a clear display of this fact

 

[Newman8r]

But sugar certainly affects the brain, so thus psychoactive right. Even a good bowl of bran cereal (close to tree bark) affects the brain. Consider the extreme case of starvation. Now I would consider one who is in the final stages of starvation unfit to drive.

Anyways, all I'm saying is that to argue about what is psychoactive and what isn't psychoactive is just an issue of semantics. Tobacco and coffee, under the definition you gave earlier, are most certainly psychoactive, but that answers not the question of whether they are considered "psychoactive substances." Moreover, I think most people realize do realize that what they ingest affects their brain. For example, lots associate clearer thinking with a healthy diet. I'm guessing there is some guideline for whether or not a substance is "psychoactive," though I am much too lazy to look for any information on the topic.

also, there's just a general misconception that things such as caffeine, nicotine, and to a lesser extent, alcohol, are not 'real drugs' and are not 'psychoactive compounds'

I think this may be the reason so many people consume these compunds on a regular basis, without real discrimination. The truth is, it's wrong to think of these things as anything other than drugs - and by saying that they are not 'psychoactive' perpetuates the misconception.

 

[ishaninatte]

also, there's just a general misconception that things such as caffeine, nicotine, and to a lesser extent, alcohol, are not 'real drugs' and are not 'psychoactive compounds'

I think this may be the reason so many people consume these compunds on a regular basis, without real discrimination. The truth is, it's wrong to think of these things as anything other than drugs - and by saying that they are not 'psychoactive' perpetuates the misconception.

Green tea, orange juice, BLTs...by saying these substances are not "psychoactive" perpetuates the misconception that you are not taking drugs.

Say no to drugs.

Sorry, this is a silly argument.

 

[BAM!]

also, there's just a general misconception that things such as caffeine, nicotine, and to a lesser extent, alcohol, are not 'real drugs' and are not 'psychoactive compounds'

I think this may be the reason so many people consume these compunds on a regular basis, without real discrimination. The truth is, it's wrong to think of these things as anything other than drugs - and by saying that they are not 'psychoactive' perpetuates the misconception.

you took MCB 62 w/Presti didn't you

 

[Newman8r]

Green tea, orange juice, BLTs...by saying these substances are not "psychoactive" perpetuates the misconception that you are not taking drugs.

Say no to drugs.

Sorry, this is a silly argument.

ahhh.... k orange juice = not psychoactive as far as I know, BLTs I have no clue whats in em, no... ok green tea does contain caffeine, which is psychoactive (but in a kind of different way, as I described above). Is consuming green tea bad? no, not as far as I know - but is caffeine a drug which has psychoactive effects, yeah I'd say so.

I'm not saying that it's bad to consume psychoactive compounds, I'm saying that it's bad to consume them with the idea that they are not psychoactive. People who are 'addicted' to caffeine, and need that fix in the morning, are using a psychoactive compound!

When people begin to realize the greater effects of the things they put into their bodies, realize that some of these things directly affect the way their brains work, maybe they will have more discression about what they consume.

And again, caffeine had more sympathomimetic effects than CNS effects, so it's a borderline one. But tobacco is clearly psychoactive. There are also many other drugs that aren't psychoactive, so I'm not just saying that anything labeled a drug is psychoactive.

And if you actually read my posts, you'd realize that I have very progressive views regarding psychoactive substances - the thing is I'm not the kind of person who says 'legalize all these drugs, and forget about the consequences' - I say 'legalize these drugs, and make sure you bear the consequences in mind'

Please, read the posts before you respond

 

[Newman8r]

you took MCB 62 w/Presti didn't you

hmm, what's that?

 

[BAM!]

I know that smoking won't make someone an incompetent doctor. Sure it's gross and makes your breath stink. Sure it can kill you. So what if it kills me, right? I'm allowed to do whatever I want. -- The part that gets me is that the person dying isn't the only sufferer. There's the family, friends, and loved ones who suffer long after the fact. But I understand there's addiction; it's what makes it such a difficult issue.

 

[BAM!]

hmm, what's that?

berkeley class, nvm

 

[Newman8r]

berkeley class, nvm

heh I'm a little further south

 

[Newman8r]

anyway, I'm going home for thanksgiving now. Feel free to tear my argument to shreads without the fear of me defending myself for about a day

 

[tbo]

My current research is on COPDers and lung cancer patients. These are the hardcore, that have smoked a pack a day for 10+ years (eligibility criteria) at a minimum.

When you can forcibly blow out a measely .7 L of air, life ain't so hot. My PI says "below 0.7L, I just consider them dead". But what do I know... I'm just trying to get my sorry ass into med school

Cheers.

 

[stormpr]

To all you non-smokers out there... there's just something about a quiet moment listening to the sounds of Coltrane and Miles combined with a long drag off my Turkish Golds that makes the world spin slower for me. Stopping to smoke a cigarette can be as relaxing as a day at the spa when the timing and atmosphere is right. That being said, yeah, no doubt smoking=death, but... we all gotta die of something? no?

 

[tbo]

To all you non-smokers out there... there's just something about a quiet moment listening to the sounds of Coltrane and Miles combined with a long drag off my Turkish Golds that makes the world spin slower for me. Stopping to smoke a cigarette can be as relaxing as a day at the spa when the timing and atmosphere is right. That being said, yeah, no doubt smoking=death, but... we all gotta die of something? no?

Not at 40 due to shortness of breath, but your point is well taken. To each their own. Of all the vices in the world, I can think of worse .

 

[Newman8r]

To all you non-smokers out there... there's just something about a quiet moment listening to the sounds of Coltrane and Miles combined with a long drag off my Turkish Golds that makes the world spin slower for me. Stopping to smoke a cigarette can be as relaxing as a day at the spa when the timing and atmosphere is right. That being said, yeah, no doubt smoking=death, but... we all gotta die of something? no?

I agree with you in the sense that a cigarette might enhance the way you experience certain things - and in that sense, I think it is perfectly fine to have a smoke. However, when you're smoking a pack a day, the excuse 'I smoke because it enhances the mood, and it just makes me feel nice..." doesn't cut it. If only people could smoke tobacco in moderation, and use it only to add to the sense of well-being of situations such as 'a quiet moment listening to the sounds of Coltrane and Miles,' we wouldn't have such a horrible problem on our hand. Tobacco won't kill you if you use it in a responsible manner, but the only excuse for a real addiction is 'I got hooked, I'm the only one to blame, I can't stop, and I don't know what to do'

Yes, we all have to die of something - but that's not an excuse to kill ourselves.

and I don't know if I've even posted this yet, and I know it seems obvious - but if you think you are addicted to tobacco, quit right away. Seek professional help. If you are the kind of person who simply cannot use this drug in moderation (which is perfectly understandable), just do something about it. I wish the best of health to all of you