Butterfly IQ Ultrasound for MSK and Neuromuscular Applications

[drg123]

Does anyone have experience with the Butterfly IQ US? Handheld portable ultrasound machine | Butterfly iQ
Is the image quality good enough to make it diagnostically useful? I know it's not a Sonosite or GE, but it would be very useful to have it for learning/practice. But if I can't really define anatomy (nerves, joints, tendons), then it's not really worth it, IMO.

What are people's thoughts?

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[j4pac]

I looks like an excellent unit for the right purposes. If you have a little money to throw around for education...sure. I think it would be pretty awesome for sidelines because, as you said, the images are decent quality, and it’s so portable. I’d have some concern about the limitations of a single do-it-all transducer. Transducers are vital to getting the right image quality and the variations add to your ability to carry our different procedures. I also wouldn’t use it for heavy diagnostics in the office...get a better more diverse option for that.

Unfortunately, demos from the company aren’t easy. You can occasionally stumble across them at conventions and through colleagues you know.

 

[PMR2008]

I have used it for a year and a half now. It is adequate for guidance. Below average for diagnosis. The over the air updates to improve quality/function is great.

 

[drg123]

I have used it for a year and a half now. It is adequate for guidance. Below average for diagnosis. The over the air updates to improve quality/function is great.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm currently a resident. And I think my main use would not be for procedural guidance but for learning US, related anatomy, and diagnosis of MSK/Nerve/Muscular issues. So it sounds like maybe the Butterfly would not be the optimal tool for that.

 

[PMR2008]

It is the optimal tool for it. Unless you are a trust fund baby you can not afford a sonosite/GE as a resident. Butterfly is pretty good just to play around and learn but I would still prefer to use the machines used by the hospital.

 

[drg123]

It is the optimal tool for it. Unless you are a trust fund baby you can not afford a sonosite/GE as a resident. Butterfly is pretty good just to play around and learn but I would still prefer to use the machines used by the hospital.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I definitely cannot afford a higher end model on my own. But my question is more toward 1) do I get a butterfly for myself or 2) do I try to advocate for my program to get a higher end US for us residents to use at some of the sites that don't already have US in office.

I really would like to get the Butterfly, but I want to make sure it's more than just a 'cool' factor and that it will actually prove useful and help me achieve competence in US. If you were me and you had to pay out of pocket (not ed funds, but my own cash), would you get it?

My feeling is that with COVID, conventional outpatient opportunities to get US practice may slow down a lot in next year or two. But if I have a pocket US, I can use other encounters (Inpatient in particular) to just whip out the US and practice and maybe even diagnose pathology. That's my thinking.

 

[PMR2008]

- Have your program buy a high end US machine. If not have them get a butterfly
- I would not get the butterfly from my own funds while in training
-COVID has barely effected my outpatient practice other than for a few weeks while we were in complete lock down. I don't think most practices will see a decline of more than 25% over the next year.
- I use the butterfly primarily for inpatient/subacute encounters. I have a nicer machine in clinic for more detailed diagnosis. The butterfly is plenty to diagnose effusions, tears and for injections.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I definitely cannot afford a higher end model on my own. But my question is more toward 1) do I get a butterfly for myself or 2) do I try to advocate for my program to get a higher end US for us residents to use at some of the sites that don't already have US in office.

I really would like to get the Butterfly, but I want to make sure it's more than just a 'cool' factor and that it will actually prove useful and help me achieve competence in US. If you were me and you had to pay out of pocket (not ed funds, but my own cash), would you get it?

My feeling is that with COVID, conventional outpatient opportunities to get US practice may slow down a lot in next year or two. But if I have a pocket US, I can use other encounters (Inpatient in particular) to just whip out the US and practice and maybe even diagnose pathology. That's my thinking.

 

[fssca20]

I was recently able to get one for our residency program by using funds allotted to us through CIR for patient care. The primary purpose of it is for resident education, and it's great to have a device that residents can take home for practice and self-learning. For this purpose it's excellent. However, as others have mentioned it has it's limitations and the resolution is nowhere near our Sonosite machine. We will also occasionally use it for bedside exams, however we don't use it for any billing purposes, nor have integrated to PACS, and won't be renewing the subscription after one year. Overall though, I think it's a great device for resident education.

 

[PMR2008]

You can now purchase it without the subscription. Which is ideal for teaching.

 

[MindtheGlottis]

Just to put it out there, I've also seen the sonoque around and heard it was decent.. I haven't actually used it myself though

Sonoque | Portable ultrasound

Introducing the future of medical imaging technology with the SonoQue premium handheld ultrasound, an innovative portable imaging device that can meet your needs without expensive subscriptions. The innovative design of SonoQue probes delivers the performance of traditional ultrasound technology...

www.sonoque.com

 

[drg123]

Just to put it out there, I've also seen the sonoque around and heard it was decent.. I haven't actually used it myself though

Sonoque | Portable ultrasound

Introducing the future of medical imaging technology with the SonoQue premium handheld ultrasound, an innovative portable imaging device that can meet your needs without expensive subscriptions. The innovative design of SonoQue probes delivers the performance of traditional ultrasound technology...

www.sonoque.com

thanks for the tip. I’ll check it out.
The Phillips Lumify looks really good. Better images than butterfly. But higher price point. Butterfly just came out with a new model but it doesn’t look that different.
Any thoughts on Lumify?

 

[PMR2008]

I used the Lumify for 3 years before switching to the butterfly last year. 1) Saving a lot of money. Lumify was $200/month and Butterfly is an upfront cost (best to buy during black Friday and a yearly subscription fee) 2) Butterfly probe I think is better quality specially for MSK/Neuro and guidance. I have used them both side to side 3) Lumify draws battery from your tablet while Butterfly has its own battery and lasts a very long time. Both are very easy to charge 4) Butterfly probe does linear and sort of curvilinear. 5) The app for Butterfly on android and iOS is significantly better. Easier to do one handed. Pinch/zoom, depth, brightness etc. 6) The over the air updates for Butterfly are making it even better. A lot more frequent updates than the Lumify.

 

[PMR2008]

The biggest negative for the Butterfly would be that it heats up after 15-20 minutes of continuous use since the probe has the battery. But I am never scanning for more than 3-4 minutes at a time.

 

[drg123]

I used the Lumify for 3 years before switching to the butterfly last year. 1) Saving a lot of money. Lumify was $200/month and Butterfly is an upfront cost (best to buy during black Friday and a yearly subscription fee) 2) Butterfly probe I think is better quality specially for MSK/Neuro and guidance. I have used them both side to side 3) Lumify draws battery from your tablet while Butterfly has its own battery and lasts a very long time. Both are very easy to charge 4) Butterfly probe does linear and sort of curvilinear. 5) The app for Butterfly on android and iOS is significantly better. Easier to do one handed. Pinch/zoom, depth, brightness etc. 6) The over the air updates for Butterfly are making it even better. A lot more frequent updates than the Lumify.

@PMR2008 Your experience with both and side-by-side comparison is very helpful. Thank you! Indeed, the Butterfly is more accessible than Lumify price-wise, and has the benefit of not requiring multiple transducers. What got me thinking about Lumify was this paper I saw recently (trying to convince my PD to get one for us):

Hand-Held Portable Versus Conventional Cart-Based Ultrasound in Musculoskeletal Imaging

Portable ultrasound machines are now common, used for point-of-care applications and needle guidance for percutaneous procedures; however, the effectiveness of portable ultrasound in evaluation of the musculoskeletal system has not been fully assessed.To ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I'll take another look at Butterfly and maybe take the plunge. I had the opportunity to play with a Phillips cart-based US in clinic for the last month during my down time, and I've come to appreciate how necessary it is just to spend time scanning (even if on myself). You can read, and watch your colleagues or whatever, but ultimately one just needs to scan, look at an atlas, think about the anatomy, etc. So I'm trying to justify to myself that spending money on a portable US is worth it, since I will be able to practice much more than if I'm just limited to when I have access to a conventional top-line US.

 

[j4pac]

The biggest negative for the Butterfly would be that it heats up after 15-20 minutes of continuous use since the probe has the battery. But I am never scanning for more than 3-4 minutes at a time.

I never thought about that.

 

[PMR2008]

@PMR2008 Your experience with both and side-by-side comparison is very helpful. Thank you! Indeed, the Butterfly is more accessible than Lumify price-wise, and has the benefit of not requiring multiple transducers. What got me thinking about Lumify was this paper I saw recently (trying to convince my PD to get one for us):

Hand-Held Portable Versus Conventional Cart-Based Ultrasound in Musculoskeletal Imaging

Portable ultrasound machines are now common, used for point-of-care applications and needle guidance for percutaneous procedures; however, the effectiveness of portable ultrasound in evaluation of the musculoskeletal system has not been fully assessed.To ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I'll take another look at Butterfly and maybe take the plunge. I had the opportunity to play with a Phillips cart-based US in clinic for the last month during my down time, and I've come to appreciate how necessary it is just to spend time scanning (even if on myself). You can read, and watch your colleagues or whatever, but ultimately one just needs to scan, look at an atlas, think about the anatomy, etc. So I'm trying to justify to myself that spending money on a portable US is worth it, since I will be able to practice much more than if I'm just limited to when I have access to a conventional top-line US.

If you are a resident I don't think it is worth buying yet. Just spend time after clinic to play around with the ultrasound you already have. Once you are employed have your employee buy the best machine they are willing to buy. If you are going to be independent like me the Butterfly makes a lot of sense.

 

[Crybaby]

Does anyone have any experience with the sonoque handheld?

I have recently started looking and this popped up. Interesting as it has a dual probe linear/curvilinear


Shop - SonoQue

 

[RobCip]

Does anyone have experience with these CLARIUS probes? L15 Overview - High Frequency Linear Handheld Ultrasound - Clarius