BUY Your Way into Rx School??

[brwnricecracker]

Question...
A very close friend of mine has a sibling, a senior in High School. I was informed that she was accepted into a pre-Pharmacy program.

Now, from what I know academically about her, she is a "terrible" student. Always gets called into school for a parent-teacher meeting for tutoring, "bombed" the SATs, and has a C average, possibly lower in Sciences.

Pray, tell me, how did she get into pre-pharmacy?? I hear it's hella hard and competitive.

I was quite flabbergasted. Almost envious... When I was a H.S. senior, my status was above and still got rejected from schools I thought would accept me.

So I have been pondering, did she BUY her ticket into pre-pharmacy??

Comments? Thoughts?

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[Flapjacks]

This is all conjecture.

 

[kalikat]

do you mean pre-pharmacy or a 0-6 pharmacy program? because pre-pharmacy is just a set of classes you need to complete before beginning the professional portion of pharmacy school.

you can take your pre-pharmacy classes at a community college.. so having good grades for THAT isnt necessarily a requirement

 

[brwnricecracker]

do you mean pre-pharmacy or a 0-6 pharmacy program? because pre-pharmacy is just a set of classes you need to complete before beginning the professional portion of pharmacy school.

you can take your pre-pharmacy classes at a community college.. so having good grades for THAT isnt necessarily a requirement

She got into a 2-4 program. So you're in as a pre-pharm major fresh out of H.S. for 2 years then you apply for P1 (first professional year).

You can apply to the school's pharmacy program or apply to another professional school through PharmCAS or whatever.

Flapjacks:

Yes it is a conjecture and although I can't prove it (am not going to ask, did you pay for your admissions?) it's the only one I can think of. I've tutored this one and trust me, her brain's not there.

TBH, I am just bittered by the fact she got into a school I got rejected from yadda yadda yadda.

There's absolutely nooo way, any other way I can think of that would grant her admissions into pharmacy school that is "hard to get into".

 

[Twentytwelve2]

She probably had a sob story or some kind of story that explained why she was a sub 3.0 GPA student. Perhaps she made up for what she lacked in by excelling in other areas? Maybe she had a job, volunteered, family crisis, charisma/charming personality, female, good looks, jk! Or am I...

 

[AlPacino]

She got into a 2-4 program. So you're in as a pre-pharm major fresh out of H.S. for 2 years then you apply for P1 (first professional year).

You can apply to the school's pharmacy program or apply to another professional school through PharmCAS or whatever.

Flapjacks:

Yes it is a conjecture and although I can't prove it (am not going to ask, did you pay for your admissions?) it's the only one I can think of. I've tutored this one and trust me, her brain's not there.

TBH, I am just bittered by the fact she got into a school I got rejected from yadda yadda yadda.

There's absolutely nooo way, any other way I can think of that would grant her admissions into pharmacy school that is "hard to get into".

Thats not the same as a 0-6. Getting into a 2 year pre-pharm program is not hard. You can just go to a community college for 2 years, complete the pre-pharm prereqs, and finish the same time as your friend.

 

[ExpressMaiL]

This is all conjecture.

lol

 

[smercer]

Well, I heard from the grape vine that she did buy her way in. I can't reveal my sources, but you were right. I say you call her out on this. Needs to be in a public place...that way there will be witnesses if anything goes down. You must stand up for the profession and end this here. Show her that cheating/buying your way into pharmacy is unaccpetable. Do what you must....

 

[358265]

This is an interesting topic that has baffled me for years.

At my school (or possibly at any other prestigious "state" school that is known for their pharmacy program), I've seen A LOT of students who are just the poorest academic and most unprofessional people I've ever seen (e.g., parties all the time with beer pong FB pictures posted). Even preceptors question how they became pharmacy students. What I found was that most of these "types" of students had connections to the school. Perhaps their parents were alumni that often donated $$$ to the school or some other reason.

So just maybe one can "buy" their way into school, although for unethical reasons, it's probably not disclosed. I suppose it is more common than we think.

 

[WednesdayBridge]

This is an interesting topic that has baffled me for years.

At my school (or possibly at any other prestigious "state" school that is known for their pharmacy program), I've seen A LOT of students who are just the poorest academic and most unprofessional people I've ever seen (e.g., parties all the time with beer pong FB pictures posted). Even preceptors question how they became pharmacy students. What I found was that most of these "types" of students had connections to the school. Perhaps their parents were alumni that often donated $$$ to the school or some other reason.

So just maybe one can "buy" their way into school, although for unethical reasons, it's probably not disclosed. I suppose it is more common than we think.

Here's a little pet theory that I have developed: in my state, there is an 0-6 school that accepts more students into their first year than they are accredited to graduate. Why would they do this? Because each student represents about $40k to them. And they know all of them aren't going to make it to the end. Especially if they admit a certain amount of students that they know won't make it. If they admitted all dedicated, bright students, they risk all of them doing well, and then what will they do?

 

[kcwang]

There is always a backdoor to every school.

However, you shouldnt make all these conjectures about her. Why would you care anyway? She probably got in because she achieved something great. Maybe she saved a village of poor ppl from hungers. Maybe she was one of the authors on a nature paper. Maybe she saved her community thousands of dollars because of her innovative project.

Who care if she got a average of C in high school. Some of the 4.0 interns at my work place cannot even follow a simple set of instructions. GPA is overrated.

 

[brwnricecracker]

WednesdayBridge,

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, "...each student represents about 40k...and they know all of them aren't going to make it...". Whole-heartedly agreed.


kcwang,

About GPAs being over-rated...Are you kidding me?! Well, of course, GPA is not the only attribute schools look at. But it does weigh a lot. If GPAs were over-rated why are so many students scrambling into Academic Advisement to schedule re-take courses to "raise GPA". And, God, do schools make heaps of dough from students re-taking courses...I felt the pain.

Scoring a 4.0 GPA and failing to follow a simple set of rules is another story. It's what people call the "Einstein theory".


pharmaguide,

Heck, people even get themselves into P3 without much "effort"-- just go complain to the Dean you got harrassed by an organic chemistry professor, hence could not concentrate, hence received an F grade, hence if "...you don't accept me into P3, I'm going to sue the school." (This person and I were in same class, lab partners, she opened her mouth about it. Was she bragging?!)

I probably sound bitter like a rancid lemon, just because I didn't get into pharmacy school the first time around and "wasted" 2 years of my life "getting it right". Heh.

 

[kcwang]

About GPAs being over-rated...Are you kidding me?! Well, of course, GPA is not the only attribute schools look at. But it does weigh a lot. If GPAs were over-rated why are so many students scrambling into Academic Advisement to schedule re-take courses to "raise GPA". And, God, do schools make heaps of dough from students re-taking courses...I felt the pain.

You pretty much just proved my point. The current education system favors exam taking than real life problem solving. This is one reason why most people graduate just to find out that there are no jobs out there waiting for them. Only debts... It is sad. What do those graduates do? Keep waiting for more jobs or pursue higher degrees while schools make tons of money.

We need a better education system that produce graduates who can make jobs not find jobs.

Some of the most amazing and smartest people I have ever met dont always have a good number on their report card. GPA only measures how well you do on exams.

 

[mustang sally]

Well...I don't know anything about buying your way into pharmacy school (unless you consider paying massive amounts of tuition as "buying" your way in) but I have a few thoughts:

a) Depending on how long ago you applied to pharmacy school, it is likely less competitive now than what it was then due to the fact that pharmacy is in decline. Pharmacy went through a boom phase where it was super-competitive to get into school. Now that there is saturation of the field, it may be that it is easier to get into a school.
b) Expansion of schools beyond actual demand also contributes to a less competitive PharmD candidate pool.
c) Dumb luck?

 

[brwnricecracker]

Well...I don't know anything about buying your way into pharmacy school (unless you consider paying massive amounts of tuition as "buying" your way in) but I have a few thoughts:

a) Depending on how long ago you applied to pharmacy school, it is likely less competitive now than what it was then due to the fact that pharmacy is in decline. Pharmacy went through a boom phase where it was super-competitive to get into school. Now that there is saturation of the field, it may be that it is easier to get into a school.
b) Expansion of schools beyond actual demand also contributes to a less competitive PharmD candidate pool.
c) Dumb luck?

I disagree about saturation and ease. I see it as an inverse ratio. More applicants mean the school's going to fish out the "good" ones. It is MORE competitive now as applicants have shot up like never before. It gets harder every year. Understatement.

And yes, when I said "BUY" I meant out-of-pocket tuition.

 

[mustang sally]

I think there are more spots to fill in pharmacy school, not necessarily more applicants.

More spots = someone who is less competitive has a better shot at getting in than before.

 

[brwnricecracker]

As much as there are pharmacy schools there are triple the amount of students vying for a seat. Well, at least for the professional phase. I don't know about pre-professional...even still!

Anyways, the school that this person applied is known to be "prestigious", so I just don't get it. I tried hard not to show that I'm mentally meddling in someone else's business but it was hard since I feel this person got in unfairly.

 

[Twentytwelve2]

I think there are more spots to fill in pharmacy school, not necessarily more applicants.

More spots = someone who is less competitive has a better shot at getting in than before.

There has been a surge in applicants... this year Touro received 4,500 applicants and interviewed 10% of them (about 500) according to the post-interview discussion. At least I dont make false assumptions.

More applicants + small increase in seats = more competition

 

[BenJammin]

Why can't you accept the fact that she might actually have good grades and just doesn't want to tell judgmental *****s like you about them? My valedictorian of my high school class never made it past her freshman year of college yet my best friend ranked in the 400s in our class and he has just graduated from Harvard law school. People can and will surprise you when you least expect it.

 

[mustang sally]

There has been a surge in applicants... this year Touro received 4,500 applicants and interviewed 10% of them (about 500) according to the post-interview discussion. At least I dont make false assumptions.

More applicants + small increase in seats = more competition

Really we should consider whether the ratio of applicants to seats is going up or down over the last few years and that would indicate the level of competitiveness. Show me a chart from a reputable source that gives a year by year breakdown of this ratio for the entire U.S. (not just an anecdote from one school) and then maybe I will be convinced.

Anyway, it sounds like the OP is just jealous. I say, forget about your friend's sibling and focus on making yourself a standout candidate. I mean, what if she did buy her way into pharmacy school? Then what?

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I can share that the number of applicants to the PharmD program at our college has continued to climb. Anecdotally, of course.

 

[brwnricecracker]

BenJammin,

You're right, people who seemingly have no talents and no abilities can become the epitome of success.


Congratulations to your friend who just graduated Harvard. But I'm not talking about what a person CAN do and what great things he/she is capable of. I am talking about now. Like I've said, I know her academically as I've tutored her up until last winter and I have a reason to be flabbergasted. And no, she doesn't have good grades, not even mediocre. I'm not being judgemental, I am entitled to my opinions and am just stating what's obvious about her academic standpoint. And if anyone is wondering, NO, she's not involved in any extracirricular activities.


mustang sally,

Yes, I've said in my OP that I was feeling jealous. No shame. You're right, too, about "then what". I'm not going to confront her as one poster suggested. It is what it is and I have my own life to look after.


Twentytwelve2,

I agree, small increase in seats. My rejection letter from one school told me about the surge in applicants like she's never seen before and that applicants were highly competitive.

 

[kcwang]

Like I've said, I know her academically as I've tutored her up until last winter and I have a reason to be flabbergasted. And no, she doesn't have good grades, not even mediocre. I'm not being judgemental, I am entitled to my opinions and am just stating what's obvious about her academic standpoint. And if anyone is wondering, NO, she's not involved in any extracirricular activities.

It is obvious that the adcom saw something in her that you didn't. If one of my students got into a program, I would be happy for the student not talking smack behind his/her back and making up stories. You are basically suggesting that people who got into a program with low gpa bought their way into schools. GPA is just part of the whole application. Adcom consists of more than one person. I highly doubt you can just bribe your way into a "prestigious" program like that.

 

[Corpseman]

Guess I am really not sure the point of this thread.


Your friend got into college and is a pre-pharm major....and you are upset? You do realize you can go to a community college and be a pre-pharm major, right? It does not sound like she was accepted into any sort of professional program. She still needs to go through all the application/interview process.

 

[brwnricecracker]

kcwang,

Like one has said, it's all conjecture. What, I'm not entitled to my own thoughts and suspicions? I just find it hard to believe, a low GPA with no side activities can make it. If only all admissions officials were "nice" like that. If one has monetary benefits, one CAN get into a program, no? My emotions got the better of me because I had "better" credentials and was rejected. I'm human, after all.

Corpseman,

What kind of "point" are you looking for? It was a post about a situation and I wanted to read others thoughts and coments. I'm not trying to prove anything like most of you think I'm trying to do but am failing? To be honest, I wouldn't really give two cents if she got into a school, it just hit a nerve that she got into a school I was rejected from and had better goods to show. And you could be thinking I have nothing else better to do than to care (supposedly this much).

 

[dancingallday]

What kind of "point" are you looking for? It was a post about a situation and I wanted to read others thoughts and coments. I'm not trying to prove anything like most of you think I'm trying to do but am failing? To be honest, I wouldn't really give two cents if she got into a school, it just hit a nerve that she got into a school I was rejected from and had better goods to show. And you could be thinking I have nothing else better to do than to care (supposedly this much).

I think it's probably time to stop stewing over this. You really can't know what an individual's position is; maybe she had better grades than you thought, or maybe she had personal issues and found a way to explain her poor grades that made the admissions office satisfied. Maybe she had a unique blend of volunteer work/extracurriculars that fit with the school. You don't know. But the point Corpseman is trying to make is that she's not actually in "Rx school" as you stated; she's a pre-pharm major at an undergrad college, and absolutely any college-going human being position can declare themselves pre-pharm (it's not "hella hard and competitive" to just declare a major.) If she's really such a terrible student, she'll get weeded out by the tougher courses and/or the pharmacy school adcom. No sense in getting upset over something that's not even worth getting upset over.

 

[kcwang]

Just out of curiosity, which school is this you are talking about (if you dont mind sharing)

 

[type b pharmD]

Number of applicants to a specific school doesn't reflect the overall competitiveness . Example: year 1, 5 schools each get 500apps, from a pool of 2,000 applicants. Next year, each school gets 2000 apps, but still from the same pool of 2000 applicants. It only LOOKS like it got more competitive , but the number of applicants has not changed . Gotta look nationwide at the number of unique applicants to judge this statistic, not number of applications submitted.

 

[brwnricecracker]

dancingallday,

As I have written in an earlier post, she is not involved in any extra-cirricular activities, she SHOWS me her grades, pleading for help for her next test (I tutor her), I should know where she stands academically, quite well. Heck, I even helped her with her college essays. Yes, I am fully aware that she is not in professional school and still has 2 years and a PCAT to complete. And I do understand that she will be "weeded" out later on if she doesn't act up. I'm not upset, just felt envious reflecting back when I applied. In the midst of waiting for pharmacy schools to pick me from their waitlists, I became sensitive when hearing someone got in even though it's only pre-pharm. You're absolutely right, it's not worth getting upset over.

kcwang,

I rather not divulge.


type b pharmD,

What do you mean by unique applicants and applications submitted, please elaborate. Isn't submitting an application the meaning of an applicant? For statistics, I look at PharmCAS and email school Admissions for details. I am not sure how reliable these sources are as every application cycle has its spins.

 

[type b pharmD]

type b pharmD,

What do you mean by unique applicants and applications submitted, please elaborate. Isn't submitting an application the meaning of an applicant? For statistics, I look at PharmCAS and email school Admissions for details. I am not sure how reliable these sources are as every application cycle has its spins.

Sorry, was typing on my phone earlier so didnt have room to explain fully.

An applicant can generate a hundred applications in one cycle, and give the illusion that there are 100 additional applicants.

If, say, one year, applicants on *average* apply to 3 schools each. If there are 100 applicants, there would be a total of 300 applications submitted (# of applications submitted is being used as a marker of competitiveness in this thread, when in reality it is not). Then say the next year, applicants apply on average to 6 schools each. Even if there are only 100 applicants, there will be 600 total applications submitted, which could lead the onlooker to assume that "competetiveness" doubled, when in reality, the same number of people were applying and the same number of spots were offered. Thus, this 'stat' is completely irrelevant.

Usually if people start applying more broadly, (ie, if every pharm applicant applied to 10 places instead of just 3-5 or whatever is average), schools will offer more acceptances and will have to recalculate the # of applicants who will actually decide to attend. (If youre a school and your average applicant has applied to 10 other schools, they are very unlikely to attend yours by random chance, so you either have to become better at judging peoples intentions (difficult during a 15 minute interview) or offer more acceptances with the idea in mind that a large % of those accepted applicants will ultimately go elsewhere).

Hope this helps.