By what date is primary considered "late"?

[I Love Cats]

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I'm being told by some sources, in my personal life and on SDN, that my primary submission date was "late". I'm being a responsible pre-med and prepping for what variables to improve for a potential reapplication. By a pre-health advisor who I recently met with, I was told that applying when I did hurt me greatly, and I was also told by that person that if I apply on the first day in June that it is open, my chances will be significantly better. I submitted my primary in the middle of August.

Is the middle of August a horrible primary submission date? Is June 1st, or whatever it is, really significantly better compared to my date? In general, when is an application late, or when does an application begin to lose its "power" based on the date the primary is sent in?

I understand there may be other issues with anyone's application, even mine, if a reapplication is needed, but I'm specifically curious about the time of primary submission variable and how that influences the success of an application.

 

[drscholls]

I'm being told by some sources, in my personal life and on SDN, that my primary submission date was "late". I'm being a responsible pre-med and prepping for what variables to improve for a potential reapplication. By a pre-health advisor who I recently met with, I was told that applying when I did hurt me greatly, and I was also told by that person that if I apply on the first day in June that it is open, my chances will be significantly better. I submitted my primary on August.

Is August a horrible primary submission date? Is June 1st, or whatever it is, really significantly better compared to my date? In general, when is an application late, or when does an application begin to lose its "power" based on the date the primary is sent in?

I understand there may be other issues with anyone's application, even mine, if a reapplication is needed, but I'm specifically curious about the time of primary submission variable and how that influences the success of an application.

I could, and I am sure that many people will, give you a detailed explanation about why late is worse (LizzyM discussed it in a thread recently and summed it up pretty well). However, I think some better advice would be to go read the "where ma late applicant at" thread. That will give you a pretty good idea of the importance of applying early.

If you have to reapply (like many of us will) then do it as soon as possible. No reason not too when you've already done most of the application once.

 

[plumhill]

I'm being told by some sources, in my personal life and on SDN, that my primary submission date was "late". I'm being a responsible pre-med and prepping for what variables to improve for a potential reapplication. By a pre-health advisor who I recently met with, I was told that applying when I did hurt me greatly, and I was also told by that person that if I apply on the first day in June that it is open, my chances will be significantly better. I submitted my primary in the middle of August.

Is the middle of August a horrible primary submission date? Is June 1st, or whatever it is, really significantly better compared to my date? In general, when is an application late, or when does an application begin to lose its "power" based on the date the primary is sent in?

I understand there may be other issues with anyone's application, even mine, if a reapplication is needed, but I'm specifically curious about the time of primary submission variable and how that influences the success of an application.

I wouldn't call that horribly late, but before August 1st (IMO) is usually safe, with before July 1 being "ideal."

 

[deleted127837]

I'm being told by some sources, in my personal life and on SDN, that my primary submission date was "late". I'm being a responsible pre-med and prepping for what variables to improve for a potential reapplication. By a pre-health advisor who I recently met with, I was told that applying when I did hurt me greatly, and I was also told by that person that if I apply on the first day in June that it is open, my chances will be significantly better. I submitted my primary in the middle of August.

Is the middle of August a horrible primary submission date? Is June 1st, or whatever it is, really significantly better compared to my date? In general, when is an application late, or when does an application begin to lose its "power" based on the date the primary is sent in?

I understand there may be other issues with anyone's application, even mine, if a reapplication is needed, but I'm specifically curious about the time of primary submission variable and how that influences the success of an application.

Is it significantly better? Yes.

When is "late"? Depends how many people you want standing in line before you. Assume 10,000 applicants a month, most on the first day.

 

[Ruhroh]

I was also a later applicant by SDN standards... I think if you are complete at a school by mid-August, you should be fine at the majority of schools..

Just look through the panic thread... the common thing linking most of those people together is that they were complete in September. That includes a lot of people with very good MCATs or GPAs. At some schools (looking at you NYU) you need to be a superstar to get an interview with a Sept. complete.

 

[I Love Cats]

I wish there was some way to quantify (percent-wise) these sorts of thing. Thank you for the replies so far.

 

[sliceofbread136]

Ya dude that is late, and probably hurt your chances to an extent. I got mine in mid July and I feel even then hurt my chances some. Getting it in in June really gives you a nice advantage. It's kinda dumb, but you just gotta roll with it

 

[MedPR]

I'm being told by some sources, in my personal life and on SDN, that my primary submission date was "late". I'm being a responsible pre-med and prepping for what variables to improve for a potential reapplication. By a pre-health advisor who I recently met with, I was told that applying when I did hurt me greatly, and I was also told by that person that if I apply on the first day in June that it is open, my chances will be significantly better. I submitted my primary in the middle of August.

Is the middle of August a horrible primary submission date? Is June 1st, or whatever it is, really significantly better compared to my date? In general, when is an application late, or when does an application begin to lose its "power" based on the date the primary is sent in?

I understand there may be other issues with anyone's application, even mine, if a reapplication is needed, but I'm specifically curious about the time of primary submission variable and how that influences the success of an application.

I would say that a June 1 submission is significantly better than a mid-Aug submission. Mid-Aug isn't terribly late, but it is later on in the cycle. A borderline app can get in if it's submitted on June 1. Probably no chance if it's submitted mid-Aug.

 

[CrimsonKing]

Applying late means you'll get interviewed later, which means (sometimes) get you accepted later.

For schools without rolling admissions, applying as late as you did doesn't matter if you have stellar scores; you'll interview later, but all acceptances go out at once.

For schools WITH rolling admissions, your application date hurts a lot, even if your numbers are good. As time goes on, those schools are filling acceptances with people that have interviewed, so that there may not be an acceptance for you once you finally have the chance for interview.

Apply as early as possible; if you end up re-applying, submit your AMCAS on June 1 sharp!

 

[candbgirl]

I think if you are complete at a school by mid-August, you should be fine at the majority of schools..

Only he wasn't complete at most schools by mid August. Mid August was when the primary was submitted. By that time it was probably a month just to get verified. So yes mid August is late.

 

[I Love Cats]

Applying late means you'll get interviewed later, which means (sometimes) get you accepted later.

For schools without rolling admissions, applying as late as you did doesn't matter if you have stellar scores; you'll interview later, but all acceptances go out at once.

For schools WITH rolling admissions, your application date hurts a lot, even if your numbers are good. As time goes on, those schools are filling acceptances with people that have interviewed, so that there may not be an acceptance for you once you finally have the chance for interview.

Apply as early as possible; if you end up re-applying, submit your AMCAS on June 1 sharp!

Thank you to you all for the replies so far. They are very insightful. Now, I have another question, sort of related to the quoted post. Does applying late change your chances of receiving an interview, or just the time that you receive an interview. If it only changes the time that you receive an interview, then I have bigger issues than applying late since I've only received a couple so far. I understand what was said about rolling vs. not rolling admissions. Does applying late reduce the chances for receiving interviews I suppose is what I'm concerned most about here. I think that's the better question. Applying late leads to later interviews that makes sense, BUT is a late application treated the same as an early application? Was my later application viewed the same, given the same treatment, favor, attention or consideration as it would have been if I had applied on the first day? This is a better question! If this is the case, then I don't understand why someone becomes less awesome just because their application came later. I hope that makes sense.

 

[I Love Cats]

It took 6 weeks to get verified after I submitted my primary.

 

[bearofthesnow]

Your application may be awesome, yet later in the cycle at many schools, acceptances become more scarce and therefore more valuable. The stakes go up and your awesome app might not be awesome enough at that point.

I watched a Kaplan application prep video and it claimed that interviews between August-November give you a 50% chance of acceptance while between January-March you have a 10% shot on the waitlist. Granted, I interviewed in January and got an acceptance, but it motivated me to apply early.

I submitted my primary mid-June and had all my secondaries complete by mid-August, right when some schools start interviewing. Considering many schools do rolling admissions, the earlier you are complete, the earlier you interview, the earlier you are accepted.

The medical school application cycle is a strange beast but the #1 advice I am giving to all my friends applying in 2013 is to apply early aka June.

 

[MedPR]

It took 6 weeks to get verified after I submitted my primary.

Took a day or two for me. Though it didn't get released until 6/29.. so I guess I still had to wait 4 weeks.

 

[I Love Cats]

Your application may be awesome, yet later in the cycle at many schools, acceptances become more scarce and therefore more valuable. The stakes go up and your awesome app might not be awesome enough at that point.

Thank you. The acceptance rate philosophy behind applying early makes complete sense. My problem this cycle has been just getting interviews, so now what I am curious about is how applying late affects the # of interviews a person receives. If I had applied earlier would I still have ended up with the same number of interviews I did this cycle, or does applying earlier also improve the chances for receiving an interview. I understand the acceptance philosophy, now I'm curious about how it purely effects the step before being accepted, getting an interview. Would I maybe have had a couple more if I had applied 2.5 months earlier?

 

[bearofthesnow]

Interviews and acceptances are highly linked. When a school extends you an invitation, they are looking to hopefully accept you. Therefore yes, applying earlier would likely grant you more interview invitations because like acceptances, schools only give out interviews a certain number of students.

I know two people, one applied in June, the other in September, and both had two interviews. Another guy applied in October has not gotten any. How many/which schools you apply to also can make a difference as well. It's a really complex process.

 

[I Love Cats]

So in a nutshell, applying earlier, 2.5 months earlier in my case, will increase my chances a significant extent when it comes to getting interviews, and subsequently increase my chances of being granted an acceptance. That's what I am taking from this. And of course, like you mentioned, it is a complex process. So assuming that the rest of my app is satisfactory at least, I have good reason to be able to hope for better results in terms of interview yield at the very least if I should have to reapply. Does this sound like the correct way to think?

 

[LizzyM]

Early in the season you are one of x/4 applicants competing for one of y interview slots.

Late in the season you are one of x-(9/10) completing for y/10 interview slots. (

So let's say that a school gets 3000 applications and interviews 500 applicants. Let's also say that this does not include any instate favortism (check the MSAR, some states are generous with their own but not with OOS applicants).

Early in the season about 1/4 of the toal pool, or about 750 people are each hoping to be selected for one of the 500 available interview slots available on day #1.

By the end of the season about 450 people have been queued up for interviews and now you have 2550 (3000-450) vying for those last 50 interview seats.

Who has an easier time of getting an interview?

 

[MedPR]

Early in the season you are one of x/4 applicants competing for one of y interview slots.

Late in the season you are one of x-(9/10) completing for y/10 interview slots. (

So let's say that a school gets 3000 applications and interviews 500 applicants. Let's also say that this does not include any instate favortism (check the MSAR, some states are generous with their own but not with OOS applicants).

Early in the season about 1/4 of the toal pool, or about 750 people are each hoping to be selected for one of the 500 available interview slots available on day #1.

By the end of the season about 450 people have been queued up for interviews and now you have 2550 (3000-450) vying for those last 50 interview seats.

Who has an easier time of getting an interview?

This might be a pointless question, but at what point in the season does an un-interviewed early applicant start to lose the advantage they gained by applying early?

For example. I applied day 1 and received the majority of my II by the end of August. Now that it's February, I imagine that applying early doesn't help me at all at the schools I have yet to hear from. But back in October, did my June 1 submission help me at all compared to someone who applied in September?

 

[sazerac]

I wish there was some way to quantify (percent-wise) these sorts of thing. Thank you for the replies so far.

In past years the generally accepted SDN wisdom was that for each three weeks beyond August 1st you are complete, subtract another LizzyM point.

You submitted your primary the middle of August. It probably took you 6 weeks to get verified, and then what, another three weeks to answer the flood of secondaries? We're talking a minimum of 4 points off of your MCAT, or equivalently a loss of 0.4 GPA (four years of hard work in undergrad and you turned your A- average into a B+) just because you didn't submit your primary by late June.

Good luck with that.

 

[BABSstudent]

Saying when you submitted isn't the best thing to go by. Instead, you should go by when you are complete. The OP had a submitted primary in mid August. OP said it took six weeks to verify. That means the OP was complete at most schools in mid October (assuming OP turn out those secondaries quickly). That is super late. I had 5 II by the time you were marked complete. Heck, I had an acceptance by then! You be the judge.

 

[LizzyM]

This might be a pointless question, but at what point in the season does an un-interviewed early applicant start to lose the advantage they gained by applying early?

For example. I applied day 1 and received the majority of my II by the end of August. Now that it's February, I imagine that applying early doesn't help me at all at the schools I have yet to hear from. But back in October, did my June 1 submission help me at all compared to someone who applied in September?

In all likelihood, the schools that you've not yet heard from decided long ago that you were not going to make the cut and get an II. But, most of the schools hold off on sending rejection letters until the end of the season just in case something important comes up (e.g. the President of the University is your dad's college roommate and puts in a good word for you prompting you to get a courtesy interview at the end of the season).

 

[LaughingMan]

LizzyM,

I have heard that applying Day 1 might actually hurt your application as one would be competing with the cream of the crop for early interview dates. Any validity to this?

Thanks!

 

[MedPR]

In all likelihood, the schools that you've not yet heard from decided long ago that you were not going to make the cut and get an II. But, most of the schools hold off on sending rejection letters until the end of the season just in case something important comes up (e.g. the President of the University is your dad's college roommate and puts in a good word for you prompting you to get a courtesy interview at the end of the season).

I figured as much. I have gotten a couple of January II, but they were definitely unexpected

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

 

[The Beyonder]

LizzyM,

I have heard that applying Day 1 might actually hurt your application as one would be competing with the cream of the crop for early interview dates. Any validity to this?

Thanks!

I don't think this is the case. You will be competing against great applicants all season. On day 1 there are fewer to compete with.

 

[music2doc]

I'm being told by some sources, in my personal life and on SDN, that my primary submission date was "late". I'm being a responsible pre-med and prepping for what variables to improve for a potential reapplication. By a pre-health advisor who I recently met with, I was told that applying when I did hurt me greatly, and I was also told by that person that if I apply on the first day in June that it is open, my chances will be significantly better. I submitted my primary in the middle of August.

Is the middle of August a horrible primary submission date? Is June 1st, or whatever it is, really significantly better compared to my date? In general, when is an application late, or when does an application begin to lose its "power" based on the date the primary is sent in?

I understand there may be other issues with anyone's application, even mine, if a reapplication is needed, but I'm specifically curious about the time of primary submission variable and how that influences the success of an application.

Good rules of thumb:

Secondaries with COMPLETE APP SUBMITTED... (this is what actually matters)
Early secondary -- by Aug 15 (maximum chance)
Mid secondary -- by Sept 31 (slightly diminished chance; around a 30% reduction at UMich)
Late secondary -- by Oct 1 thru deadline (strongly diminished chances; over 50% reduction in chances at UMich)

Therefore, for your Primary (allowing 6 weeks for verification + 2 weeks to complete each secondary -- you WILL need this time):
Early -- by June 15
Mid -- by July 31
Late -- by Aug 1 thru deadline

 

[nabilesmail]

Mid August primary submission is LATE. It may have not be detrimentally so in previous years but many of us had August submissions and thus September-October completions and we will most likely have to reapply

 

[cinamin]

In all likelihood, the schools that you've not yet heard from decided long ago that you were not going to make the cut and get an II. But, most of the schools hold off on sending rejection letters until the end of the season just in case something important comes up (e.g. the President of the University is your dad's college roommate and puts in a good word for you prompting you to get a courtesy interview at the end of the season).

IIs are still going out for another two weeks or so at many schools.... So I wouldn't say that something was decided long ago if someone hadn't heard back by now.. I think there are some applicants that are in the last 'pool' of people if you will, that are still being considered for the last interview spots.

 

[LizzyM]

IIs are still going out for another two weeks or so at many schools.... So I wouldn't say that something was decided long ago if someone hadn't heard back by now.. I think there are some applicants that are in the last 'pool' of people if you will, that are still being considered for the last interview spots.

OK then. Keep hope alive until a week before the last interview date at that school. Keep hope alive.

 

[cinamin]

OK then. Keep hope alive until a week before the last interview date at that school. Keep hope alive.

I will, LizzyM!!! Oh I will!!!

(mostly just for the schools that have given out some rejections to others)

 

[music2doc]

IIs are still going out for another two weeks or so at many schools.... So I wouldn't say that something was decided long ago if someone hadn't heard back by now.. I think there are some applicants that are in the last 'pool' of people if you will, that are still being considered for the last interview spots.

lol... sorry, kid, it's over. At this point, invites that are going out are generally for LEGENDARY applicants who were late for EXTRAORDINARY reasons. Unless you can honestly say you are something an evaluator would go home and tell his/her spouse about, you're probably not worth that person's energy to plead with the adcom for an extra interview slot for you.

 

[cinamin]

lol... sorry, kid, it's over. At this point, invites that are going out are generally for LEGENDARY applicants who were late for EXTRAORDINARY reasons. Unless you can honestly say you are something an evaluator would go home and tell his/her spouse about, you're probably not worth that person's energy to plead with the adcom for an extra interview slot for you.

i got a couple in the last couple of days and there are about 5-6 schools I applied to that said they are still sending out invites through march... soooo... I think not!

also, keep in mind that as people give up their interview spots, interviews open up for a few lucky souls out there.

i do think applying after august 1st is late. having said all that, i sent in my primary to a handful of places in august when i decided to add some schools.

 

[I Love Cats]

You're all so fantastic. Thank you for your time, willingness to contribute to my post and for your wise input that will only help me in my future pursuits of getting into medical school. Thank you.

 

[Pattycake25]

i do think applying after august 1st is late. having said all that, i sent in my primary to a handful of places in august when i decided to add some schools.

I'm quoting this because it's the last post to touch on this point, but it's relevant to other posts in the thread too. A BIG factor in the timeline is the time it takes AMCAS to verify. MedPR mentioned earlier his took about a day, but you can see he did it at the VERY beginning of the season, when there wasn't as many for AMCAS to work through, so there was a faster turnaround. On the other hand, primaries submitted in August are lost in the mudslide, so those will take much longer - as long as 6 weeks. So, the longer you wait past late June or so, not only are you starting the process later, but the all-important (for timeline purposes) pre-interview phase takes longer too.

Also, don't forget that interviews start in September at the latest, but also often AUGUST. Every interview day that passes before you're complete is a wasted opportunity!

 

[cinamin]

I'm quoting this because it's the last post to touch on this point, but it's relevant to other posts in the thread too. A BIG factor in the timeline is the time it takes AMCAS to verify. MedPR mentioned earlier his took about a day, but you can see he did it at the VERY beginning of the season, when there wasn't as many for AMCAS to work through, so there was a faster turnaround. On the other hand, primaries submitted in August are lost in the mudslide, so those will take much longer - as long as 6 weeks. So, the longer you wait past late June or so, not only are you starting the process later, but the all-important (for timeline purposes) pre-interview phase takes longer too.

Also, don't forget that interviews start in September at the latest, but also often AUGUST. Every interview day that passes before you're complete is a wasted opportunity!

yeah for sure. I forgot to mention that when adding schools in august, I had already been verified. I think it's totally ok to "add" schools after you are verified throughout august (as long as secondaries are completed right away).

 

[I Love Cats]

Fantastic points, thank you!

 

[The Beyonder]

I'm quoting this because it's the last post to touch on this point, but it's relevant to other posts in the thread too. A BIG factor in the timeline is the time it takes AMCAS to verify. MedPR mentioned earlier his took about a day, but you can see he did it at the VERY beginning of the season, when there wasn't as many for AMCAS to work through, so there was a faster turnaround. On the other hand, primaries submitted in August are lost in the mudslide, so those will take much longer - as long as 6 weeks. So, the longer you wait past late June or so, not only are you starting the process later, but the all-important (for timeline purposes) pre-interview phase takes longer too.

Also, don't forget that interviews start in September at the latest, but also often AUGUST. Every interview day that passes before you're complete is a wasted opportunity!

Med PR submitted his AMCAS on the first day and it took a day to verify. I submitted my AMCAS on the second day and was verified in six day. You can see how it quickly gets out of control. I would definitely submit on the first day and add schools later. There are a lot of good applicants that submitted late and paid for it.

 

[IslandStyle808]

IIs are still going out for another two weeks or so at many schools.... So I wouldn't say that something was decided long ago if someone hadn't heard back by now.. I think there are some applicants that are in the last 'pool' of people if you will, that are still being considered for the last interview spots.

OK then. Keep hope alive until a week before the last interview date at that school. Keep hope alive.

This is because certain schools only interview OOS students after a certain period of time. I recall one school only interviewing OOS student in January. If I have time I will find the link for this school.

 

[MedPR]

Med PR submitted his AMCAS on the first day and it took a day to verify. I submitted my AMCAS on the second day and was verified in six day. You can see how it quickly gets out of control. I would definitely submit on the first day and add schools later. There are a lot of good applicants that submitted late and paid for it.

Agreed. I'm actually very surprised by how many late apps there were on sdn. For such a neurotic place, we really dropped the ball on that one.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

 

[theherowedeserv]

I applied on September 4th, verified october 1st, and complete mid october to mid november.
I've gotten 4 interview invites. But no acceptances yet.

Now that i have gotten interviews, does it mean that I am on equal footing with other interviewees? Does the early advantage mean anything post-interview? Or does earlyness only come into play when competing for interview slots?

 

[BABSstudent]

I applied on September 4th, verified october 1st, and complete mid october to mid november.
I've gotten 4 interview invites. But no acceptances yet.

Now that i have gotten interviews, does it mean that I am on equal footing with other interviewees? Does the early advantage mean anything post-interview? Or does earlyness only come into play when competing for interview slots?

You are equal with all the other people you interview with on that date in one sense. However, everyone earlier than you had it easier because there was an entire open class. You are interviewing for the last twenty or so seats. Congrats on getting this far. But if other applicants have better scores than you, that is where you are not equal with those applicants.

Also, some schools have entirely filled up their classes and you are interviewing to hopefully get a high waitlist seat.

 

[theherowedeserv]

You are equal with all the other people you interview with on that date in one sense. However, everyone earlier than you had it easier because there was an entire open class. You are interviewing for the last twenty or so seats. Congrats on getting this far. But if other applicants have better scores than you, that is where you are not equal with those applicants.

Also, some schools have entirely filled up their classes and you are interviewing to hopefully get a high waitlist seat.

Thanks. Yeah, i've been trying to wrap my head around my probability of getting accepted. I can't seem to come to a conclusion. Also, i am very worried about there being only a few seats left.

They probably are still interviewing in full force with the catch there is only a few seats left make my chances low.

 

[Pattycake25]

Agreed. I'm actually very surprised by how many late apps there were on sdn. For such a neurotic place, we really dropped the ball on that one.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

Maybe this has been done in previous cycles, but for this one, maybe we should post various "pacing" reminders, to keep people on track for submitting June 1, or ASAP after. Like, on x date we post saying what you should have accomplished for your AMCAS already, and what you should accomplish by y date, then post another one on y date. And so on.

 

[MedPR]

Maybe this has been done in previous cycles, but for this one, maybe we should post various "pacing" reminders, to keep people on track for submitting June 1, or ASAP after. Like, on x date we post saying what you should have accomplished for your AMCAS already, and what you should accomplish by y date, then post another one on y date. And so on.

If you want to pay me a pre-health advisor's salary I will be happy to do that.

 

[csx]

Maybe this has been done in previous cycles, but for this one, maybe we should post various "pacing" reminders, to keep people on track for submitting June 1, or ASAP after. Like, on x date we post saying what you should have accomplished for your AMCAS already, and what you should accomplish by y date, then post another one on y date. And so on.

This would be extremely helpful! I do not think people understand, my schools premed adviser is the most unhelpful clueless faculty person on the planet. Everything I've learned and am continuing to learn is from this website. For the love of god, help a brother out b/c this whole application thing seems confusing. From what I understand you have to apply through AMCAS...then you apply to schools through AMCAS or something...still a bit confused on everything in general

 

[AxiomaticTruth]

Think of AMCAS as the common app website you more than likely used to apply to colleges (select which med schools you want to send your primary application (grades, ECs, transcript, LoR, PS).
Then think of secondaries as the supplemental essays to common app tailored to specific colleges.
Then think of AMCAS also as your high school's registrar which sends verified school records to make sure you don't fudge your grades (send college transcript to AMCAS, not to the med schools).

Pretty simple overall.