CA podiatrists to get "MD" degrees

[happy2balive]

Hi All,
Soon podiatry students graduating from California podiatry schools may get "MD" degrees. Please see this news release from CA pod association president:

RE: CPMA Works With CMA and COA to Achieve M.D. License Parity

Here is the “joint announcement,” agreed upon between leadership of the California Podiatric Medical Association, the California Medical Association, and the California Orthopaedic Association, as of March 18, 2011. This should make very clear the intention of our Task Force as mentioned in the article appearing in the June 5 edition of the Sacramento Bee:
“The California Medical Association (CMA), the California Orthopaedic Association (COA), and the California Podiatric Medical Association (CPMA) have agreed to launch a joint task force to evaluate the education and training of future graduates of California podiatric schools, with the goal of preparing these students to have the education, training, and certification that would allow them to be licensed as physicians and surgeons in California. The agreement includes an understanding that the California podiatric schools would be expected to be accredited by the Liaison Committee on Medical Education (LCME).”
President, CPMA.

This news release was posted in PM news couple of days ago.

IF YOU ARE STILL DEBATING WHAT PODIATRY SCHOOL TO GO TO I WOULD HIGHLY ENCOURAGE YOU TO GO TO ANY OF THE CALIFORNIA POD SCHOOLS....YOU MAY GET AN MD DEGREE AT THE END, IF EVERYTHING GOES THROUGH AS CPMA IS PLANNING!

Currently only US med schools are accredited by LCME, once CA pod schools get LCME accredition they should also be able to offer "MD" degrees instead of "DPM" degree.

AGAIN ALL STUDENTS PLANING ON GOING TO POD SCHOOLS GO TO CA SCHOOLS- YOU MAY GET AN MD DEGREE AT THE END!!!!!

BEST OF LUCK TO CA POD ASSOCIATION!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope other pod schools will also follow suit and work with their respective state med associations to be accredited by LCME and offer MD degrees.

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[TimmyT]

sounds like someone is mad cause they didn't go to a CA school. How is getting parity with MD's a TERRIBLE thing?

 

[TimmyT]

Actually, I can read and can do it very well. Its funny how you try to belittle someone just because they have a different opinion. Sounds like some insecurity issues to me but hey no one is perfect. You are right how the IDEAL situation is to have the same restrictions as other medical specialties. But also remember, this is the REAL life. You’re not going to get everything you want. But this route gives PODITARY what we wanted for decades, PARITY with other medical specialties. What is the purpose of VISION 2015? You may think it will hurt podiatry, but I think it will make that MUCH better. We will see a more competitive applicant pool, which we have been lacking for decades. I don’t see why we can’t have a MD/DPM degree. I don’t think our profession is just based by the letters after our names.

 

[TimmyT]

I'm glad you have your own opinion but this is where we don't agree. This conversation could really go on and on and on. But nothing will be accomplished by wasting our time arguing on an online forum. Let's just wait and see what happens. Actions speak louder than words.

 

[BioPod]

TimmyT, I am a little confused. Are you wanting parity between DPM's and MD's or are you wanting DPM's to become MD's?

 

[janV88]

TimmyT,

Parity equals equivalent in the sense that Podiatry would be limited by TRAINING not a law. It does not mean that the DPM degree would be converted to MD. The point of vision 2015 is so that DPMs would be treated like any other medical SPECIALTY. Just as an Ophthalmologist doesn't perform heart surgery, neither would a DPM...both should be limited by training.

To the OP,

I think it's wrong of you to mislead the posters of this forum. The CA podiatrists WILL NOT be getting MD degrees...

 

[deleted291400]

It seems everyone not from a Cali school is angry lol

 

[Sabin]

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

If you "need" to have an MD after your name, then go to medical school - not podiatry school. If the California schools start awarding MDs (which I don't find likely), I for one would not attend.

 

[trinifootdoc]

Hi All,
Soon podiatry students graduating from California podiatry schools may get "MD" degrees. Please see this news release from CA pod association president:

RE: CPMA Works With CMA and COA to Achieve M.D. License Parity

Here is the “joint announcement,” agreed upon between leadership of the California Podiatric Medical Association, the California Medical Association, and the California Orthopaedic Association, as of March 18, 2011. This should make very clear the intention of our Task Force as mentioned in the article appearing in the June 5 edition of the Sacramento Bee:
“The California Medical Association (CMA), the California Orthopaedic Association (COA), and the California Podiatric Medical Association (CPMA) have agreed to launch a joint task force to evaluate the education and training of future graduates of California podiatric schools, with the goal of preparing these students to have the education, training, and certification that would allow them to be licensed as physicians and surgeons in California. The agreement includes an understanding that the California podiatric schools would be expected to be accredited by the Liaison Committee on Medical Education (LCME).”
President, CPMA.

This news release was posted in PM news couple of days ago.

IF YOU ARE STILL DEBATING WHAT PODIATRY SCHOOL TO GO TO I WOULD HIGHLY ENCOURAGE YOU TO GO TO ANY OF THE CALIFORNIA POD SCHOOLS....YOU MAY GET AN MD DEGREE AT THE END, IF EVERYTHING GOES THROUGH AS CPMA IS PLANNING!

Currently only US med schools are accredited by LCME, once CA pod schools get LCME accredition they should also be able to offer "MD" degrees instead of "DPM" degree.

AGAIN ALL STUDENTS PLANING ON GOING TO POD SCHOOLS GO TO CA SCHOOLS- YOU MAY GET AN MD DEGREE AT THE END!!!!!

BEST OF LUCK TO CA POD ASSOCIATION!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope other pod schools will also follow suit and work with their respective state med associations to be accredited by LCME and offer MD degrees.

Ok so I read this post twice and NOT ONCE does it say anything about DPM students graduating with an MD degree. The "MD License Parity" , in my opinion, simply means that DPMs in California will have the same privileges as MDs in hospitals, etc. Please correct me if I am wrong..... This argument that you all are having is not necessary.

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

Ok so I read this post twice and NOT ONCE does it say anything about DPM students graduating with an MD degree. The "MD License Parity" , in my opinion, simply means that DPMs in California will have the same privileges as MDs in hospitals, etc. Please correct me if I am wrong..... This argument that you all are having is not necessary.

Yes it does....

"Soon podiatry students graduating from California podiatry schools may get "MD" degrees. Please see this news release from CA pod association president"

 

[jonwill]

Ok so I read this post twice and NOT ONCE does it say anything about DPM students graduating with an MD degree. The "MD License Parity" , in my opinion, simply means that DPMs in California will have the same privileges as MDs in hospitals, etc. Please correct me if I am wrong..... This argument that you all are having is not necessary.

Yea, I read the actual press release a couple days ago. I don't think it has anything to do with "changing degrees" but is simply a move to parity. This is already the case in many parts of the country. I just don't think the OP understands the press release.

 

[trinifootdoc]

Yes it does....

"Soon podiatry students graduating from California podiatry schools may get "MD" degrees. Please see this news release from CA pod association president"

Please see this.... http://www.podiatrym.com/pmnewsissues.cfm?pubdate=06/07/2011

There you will see that the training will be on par with MDs BUT it says nothing about receiving MD degrees. That statement that you bolded was the opinion of the poster.

 

[FSUFeet]

Please see this.... http://www.podiatrym.com/pmnewsissues.cfm?pubdate=06/07/2011

There you will see that the training will be on par with MDs BUT it says nothing about receiving MD degrees. That statement that you bolded was the opinion of the poster.

Listen gang, this topic is causing a bit of overreaction. The ambiguity of details provided in the original posters quotation ought to prove that this is clearly an imprecision. Yes, I agree the issue of parity is an important topic of focus, BUT the bickering on this Cali stuff is a waste of time. Let's wait and see what actually comes of this and not consume our time with the prospectives and vague.
edit: And...If I wanted to be a MD, I would have gone to medical school. Podiatry is a specialized field and that's where I would expect those in the field to desire their expertise. If my patient has a heart condition, I would want a cardiologist to stabilize the pt before I perform my specialty. Our primary concern should be solely for the health and well-being of the pt. Honestly, I sense a bit of an inferiority complex from some of the pre-pods/pods beg for this to occur. This is not only wrong but also dangerous.

 

[hightower]

Honestly, I sense a bit of an inferiority complex from some of the pre-pods/pods beg for this to occur. This is not only wrong but also dangerous.

Yeah, the inferiority complex from some pre-pods or even pods is what hurts the profession, not help it. Our training is top notch now. Yes, we should fight to get the right to practice medicine within our full scope (foot and ankle, soft tissue up to knee). After that lets educate by example and let our work and expertise do the talking. Podiatrists are on staff at hospitals, chiefs of surgery, etc. They have come a long way. As has been alluded to, internal med is not trying to perform hip replacements, and ortho is not trying to manage serious systemic disease. Everyone has their role and in general everyone does their job well. If we focus on being the absolute best at what we do we don't have to worry about initials behind our name.

 

[FSUFeet]

Yeah, the inferiority complex from some pre-pods or even pods is what hurts the profession, not help it. Our training is top notch now. Yes, we should fight to get the right to practice medicine within our full scope (foot and ankle, soft tissue up to knee). After that lets educate by example and let our work and expertise do the talking. Podiatrists are on staff at hospitals, chiefs of surgery, etc. They have come a long way. As has been alluded to, internal med is not trying to perform hip replacements, and ortho is not trying to manage serious systemic disease. Everyone has their role and in general everyone does their job well. If we focus on being the absolute best at what we do we don't have to worry about initials behind our name.

Precisely. Well put.

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

Please see this.... http://www.podiatrym.com/pmnewsissues.cfm?pubdate=06/07/2011

There you will see that the training will be on par with MDs BUT it says nothing about receiving MD degrees. That statement that you bolded was the opinion of the poster.

Eh, sorry for dragging this out, but I was just saying that the OP's post DID mention the MD. This entire argument stemmed from the fact that the OP said that, when in fact, this is not what the article expresses at all. That's why there was an argument to begin with.

 

[bocajuniors]

I have read the statement. It never mentions Pods getting an MD degree. It says they will evaluate the cirriculum of the Cali pod schools. Which means parity more than likely it will allow DPMs to be covered by Medicaid. That's all. The OP assumes a lot!!!

 

[DMP]

Let's stop saying things like "If I wanted an MD I would have gone to medical school". We're ALL attending medical school, it's just a question of whether it's podiatric, allopathic, or osteopathic medical school.

 

[G0dFather]

let's stop saying things like "if i wanted an md i would have gone to medical school". We're all attending medical school, it's just a question of whether it's podiatric, allopathic, or osteopathic medical school.

well said!

 

[Podfather]

Yeah, the inferiority complex from some pre-pods or even pods is what hurts the profession, not help it. Our training is top notch now. Yes, we should fight to get the right to practice medicine within our full scope (foot and ankle, soft tissue up to knee). After that lets educate by example and let our work and expertise do the talking. Podiatrists are on staff at hospitals, chiefs of surgery, etc. They have come a long way. As has been alluded to, internal med is not trying to perform hip replacements, and ortho is not trying to manage serious systemic disease. Everyone has their role and in general everyone does their job well. If we focus on being the absolute best at what we do we don't have to worry about initials behind our name.

I agree. I have been back and forth on the DPM/MD issue. There are times (usually after a bad day where I was discriminated against in some fashion) I think that only when we have an MD or DO will we finally get respect. Then I slap myself and realize that the only advantages are perhaps a better public perception and less worry about the physician term used in insurance plans, legislation, and hospital bylaws. To those who think an MD will open up scope and eliminate problems ,well, that is truly a dream at best. Do you really think that the orthopedists will roll over and say now that you are an MD do whatever you want? Of course not. They will say to do x,y, and z you had to complete an orthopedic residency. So we will still have turf battles and after all of the work to change after it's all said and done I am still a podiatrist.

In fact, during some heated battles from the past when a foot orthopod would say we are different. I would respond you are correct. I didn't go to 4 years of medical school, a five year residency, and then fellowship to realize I wanted to really be a podiatrist.......

 

[javajava]

I agree. I have been back and forth on the DPM/MD issue. There are times (usually after a bad day where I was discriminated against in some fashion) I think that only when we have an MD or DO will we finally get respect. Then I slap myself and realize that the only advantages are perhaps a better public perception and less worry about the physician term used in insurance plans, legislation, and hospital bylaws. To those who think an MD will open up scope and eliminate problems ,well, that is truly a dream at best. Do you really think that the orthopedists will roll over and say now that you are an MD do whatever you want? Of course not. They will say to do x,y, and z you had to complete an orthopedic residency. So we will still have turf battles and after all of the work to change after it's all said and done I am still a podiatrist.

In fact, during some heated battles from the past when a foot orthopod would say we are different. I would respond you are correct. I didn't go to 4 years of medical school, a five year residency, and then fellowship to realize I wanted to really be a podiatrist.......

Are heated battles between Podiatrists and orthos a common occurrence

 

[347932]

Are heated battles between Podiatrists and orthos a common occurrence

Very much so, yes.

 

[javajava]

Very much so, yes.

So if a podiatrist is working on Foot and Ankle surgery in the OR with an ortho at the same time and then there is disagreement in how to surgically treat the patient, would the orth pull the MD card to the podiatrist to convince the Podiatrist to listen to him

 

[robopod97]

So if a podiatrist is working on Foot and Ankle surgery in the OR with an ortho at the same time and then there is disagreement in how to surgically treat the patient, would the orth pull the MD card to the podiatrist to convince the Podiatrist to listen to him

LCME is granted the authority by the US Department of Education to approve medical schools to award the MD degree. To aware the MD would require the institution to meet LCME accreditation standards. That said, a podiatric medical school approved by LCME to grant the MD degree would in essence become an allopathic medical school not a podiatric medical school and graduates would then complete an allopathic residency program. The next question is would ACGME create foot and ankle residency programs? Probably not. This is a very complex issue, not merely looking at the curriculum and comparing to allopathic medicine.

 

[fivescrew]

This is an interesting topic because as I understand it just two years ago California made changes to their health code laws to make sure a person with the correct training could practice to the fullest extent of their training.

I know the one thing that attracts me the most to a possible podiatry career is because it offers such specific education and training. You know what you will be doing from day one and have all that time to prepare to be the best. So I hope that a move to everyone having one degree doesn't happen.

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

Let's stop saying things like "If I wanted an MD I would have gone to medical school". We're ALL attending medical school, it's just a question of whether it's podiatric, allopathic, or osteopathic medical school.

I'm not ashamed I'm going to go to podiatry school. I've never heard a dentist say they're going to medical school, and at a lot of dental schools they share the same core science classes with MD students...

 

[347932]

So if a podiatrist is working on Foot and Ankle surgery in the OR with an ortho at the same time and then there is disagreement in how to surgically treat the patient, would the orth pull the MD card to the podiatrist to convince the Podiatrist to listen to him

I've never been in the OR with an Ortho at the same time, so I'm not sure how to answer your question.

 

[bocajuniors]

So if a podiatrist is working on Foot and Ankle surgery in the OR with an ortho at the same time and then there is disagreement in how to surgically treat the patient, would the orth pull the MD card to the podiatrist to convince the Podiatrist to listen to him

It depend on whose patient it is. If it's the pod's patient he gets final say on how to treat. I have been in a surgery with a professional sports player with both and orthopod and pod. They both discussed options and came to decision together.

 

[347932]

It depend on whose patient it is. If it's the pod's patient he gets final say on how to treat. I have been in a surgery with a professional sports player with both and orthopod and pod. They both discussed options and came to decision together.

The problem with this scenario in my eyes, is if the you know what ever hits the fan, how do you think it's going to play out?

 

[Socrates25]

Let's stop saying things like "If I wanted an MD I would have gone to medical school". We're ALL attending medical school, it's just a question of whether it's podiatric, allopathic, or osteopathic medical school.

Thats BS. By that logic, nurses, pharmacists, dentists, phlebotomists, x-ray techs all attend "medical" school.

A MEDICAL school trains people to go into a wide variety of medical disciplines, it does NOT pigeon hole them into doing foot/ankle stuff.

A MEDICAL school gives students the opportunity to go into any field of medicine or surgery they desire and can match into. Is that what podiatry school does? Hell no.

 

[Socrates25]

If the CMA/LCME is really involved in this, then it only means one thing -- the conversion of podiatry to MD programs which will mean the end of the podiatry training pathway in California, which would make orthopedic surgeons very happy. Why else would they support this?

Think about it.

Do you really think the LCME is going to slap a rubber stamp on the existing podiatry schools and say "OK now your pods are all MDs" Of course not.

The LCME has a very specific/strict set of criteria that they use. It means the schools will be revamped from the ground up and now they have to teach the same curriculum that all the MD schools teach. Their graduates will apply to any residency they want. In other words, it wont be a podiatric school anymore, it will be a real medical school.

The orthopedics guys would freakin LOVE this. Now all the former podiatry school turned med school graduates have to apply to an orthopedics residency if they want to do any foot/ankle surgery. The orthopods just wiped out their primary source of competition in one foul swoop.

I'm sure there will be some kind of grandfather clause that says the DPMs already in California can keep their current scope. But there will be no new DPMs to replace them. Over time, the number of DPMs competiting against orthos will decrease.

Make no mistake. This is a complete takeover. LCME doenst have the authority/power to license/regulate some kind of special DPM school with an MD degree attached. To get LCME accreditation and give out an MD degree you have to be built and structured like a full scale medical school in which the studnets can pursue any specialty they want. That means the current podiatry schools will no longer exist.

 

[javajava]

If the CMA/LCME is really involved in this, then it only means one thing -- the conversion of podiatry to MD programs which will mean the end of the podiatry training pathway in California, which would make orthopedic surgeons very happy. Why else would they support this?

Think about it.

Do you really think the LCME is going to slap a rubber stamp on the existing podiatry schools and say "OK now your pods are all MDs" Of course not.

The LCME has a very specific/strict set of criteria that they use. It means the schools will be revamped from the ground up and now they have to teach the same curriculum that all the MD schools teach. Their graduates will apply to any residency they want. In other words, it wont be a podiatric school anymore, it will be a real medical school.

The orthopedics guys would freakin LOVE this. Now all the former podiatry school turned med school graduates have to apply to an orthopedics residency if they want to do any foot/ankle surgery. The orthopods just wiped out their primary source of competition in one foul swoop.

I'm sure there will be some kind of grandfather clause that says the DPMs already in California can keep their current scope. But there will be no new DPMs to replace them. Over time, the number of DPMs competiting against orthos will decrease.

Make no mistake. This is a complete takeover. LCME doenst have the authority/power to license/regulate some kind of special DPM school with an MD degree attached. To get LCME accreditation and give out an MD degree you have to be built and structured like a full scale medical school in which the studnets can pursue any specialty they want. That means the current podiatry schools will no longer exist.

I enjoy reading conspiracy theories from conspiracy theorists (all orthos are intent on taking over the world, err california I mean, taking over california), however the article never said they were gonna give MDs to DPMs. They just said that all they are doing right now is examining the curriculum of the two podiatric medical schools in California. Upon completing their assessments, they will be deciding whether or not to lobby for DPMs to have their license unrestricted, thats all.

Forgot all the MD business, its still gonna be a DPM business

 

[robopod97]

I enjoy reading conspiracy theories from conspiracy theorists (all orthos are intent on taking over the world, err california I mean, taking over california), however the article never said they were gonna give MDs to DPMs. They just said that all they are doing right now is examining the curriculum of the two podiatric medical schools in California. Upon completing their assessments, they will be deciding whether or not to lobby for DPMs to have their license unrestricted, thats all.

Forgot all the MD business, its still gonna be a DPM business

Then why does the release mention LCME? Their purpose is to accredit allopathic medical schools to award an accredited MD degree. Can you clarify "unrestricted"?

 

[javajava]

Then why does the release mention LCME? Their purpose is to accredit allopathic medical schools to award an accredited MD degree. Can you clarify "unrestricted"?

Who better to see if Podiatric Medical school course work is equal to a Allopathic Medical school coursework than the people who examine allopathic medical school coursework on a yearly basis

 

[air bud]

If the CMA/LCME is really involved in this, then it only means one thing -- the conversion of podiatry to MD programs which will mean the end of the podiatry training pathway in California, which would make orthopedic surgeons very happy. Why else would they support this?

Think about it.

Do you really think the LCME is going to slap a rubber stamp on the existing podiatry schools and say "OK now your pods are all MDs" Of course not.

The LCME has a very specific/strict set of criteria that they use. It means the schools will be revamped from the ground up and now they have to teach the same curriculum that all the MD schools teach. Their graduates will apply to any residency they want. In other words, it wont be a podiatric school anymore, it will be a real medical school.

The orthopedics guys would freakin LOVE this. Now all the former podiatry school turned med school graduates have to apply to an orthopedics residency if they want to do any foot/ankle surgery. The orthopods just wiped out their primary source of competition in one foul swoop.

I'm sure there will be some kind of grandfather clause that says the DPMs already in California can keep their current scope. But there will be no new DPMs to replace them. Over time, the number of DPMs competiting against orthos will decrease.

Sounds like I should move to California when I get done with residency, there are going to be some job openings
Make no mistake. This is a complete takeover. LCME doenst have the authority/power to license/regulate some kind of special DPM school with an MD degree attached. To get LCME accreditation and give out an MD degree you have to be built and structured like a full scale medical school in which the studnets can pursue any specialty they want. That means the current podiatry schools will no longer exist.

You realize there are other schools besides in Califronia, right?

 

[Socrates25]

I enjoy reading conspiracy theories from conspiracy theorists (all orthos are intent on taking over the world, err california I mean, taking over california), however the article never said they were gonna give MDs to DPMs. They just said that all they are doing right now is examining the curriculum of the two podiatric medical schools in California. Upon completing their assessments, they will be deciding whether or not to lobby for DPMs to have their license unrestricted, thats all.

Forgot all the MD business, its still gonna be a DPM business

You're wrong, I'm right. Read the CMA press release below:

http://sdcms.org/article/cma-news-release-californias-physicians-orthopaedic-surgeons-and-podiatrists-reach-historic-

CMA NEWS RELEASE: California's Physicians, Orthopaedic Surgeons, and Podiatrists Reach Historic Agreement on New Task Force

by: San Diego County Medical Society
Published June 7, 2011



Contact: (916) 551-2069
Molly Weedn
California's Physicians, Orthopaedic Surgeons, and Podiatrists Reach Historic Agreement on New Task Force

Joint Effort Will Review Podiatric Training to Determine if There Are Ways to Transition Podiatric Schools so Graduates Could Become Licensed Physicians and Surgeons

Sacramento — Today, the California Medical Association (CMA), California Orthopaedic Association (COA), and the California Podiatric Medical Association (CPMA) announced a historic task force between the three organizations to begin the process of reviewing the education, curriculum and training of California’s podiatric medical schools with the ultimate goal of achieving accreditation as full-fledged allopathic medical schools and enabling their graduates to become licensed physicians and surgeons.

It is the first agreement of its kind anywhere in the nation.
Joint Statement of CMA Chief Executive Officer Dustin Corcoran, CPMA Executive Director Jon A. Hultman & COA Executive Director Diane Przepiorski


“The California Medical Association (CMA), the California Orthopaedic Association (COA), and the California Podiatric Medical Association (CPMA) have together agreed to launch a joint task force to evaluate the education and training of future graduates of California podiatric schools – with the goal of preparing these students to have the education, training, and certification to allow them to be licensed as physicians and surgeons in California. The agreement includes an understanding that the California podiatric schools would be expected to be accredited by the Liaison Committee on Medical Education (LCME).

‘We’re excited to be a part of this unprecedented partnership,’ CMA Chief Executive Officer Dustin Corcoran said. ‘The licensure requirements of podiatrists have increased in California in recent years, and the time has come to evaluate their training programs in this context. The California Medical Association is looking forward to working with the COA and the CPMA to fully evaluate the education and training of podiatrists to identify and remove any remaining deficiencies so that future podiatric medical graduates would simply be medical school graduates.’


‘This Joint Task Force is the first effort nationwide to perform a critical review of the current podiatric medical school standards and curriculum with the goal of creating podiatric training programs that are equivalent to that of a medical school for physicians and surgeons,’ said COA Executive Director Diane Przepiorski. ‘If we can accomplish this goal, podiatrists will receive the education, training, and certification which will allow them to be licensed as a physician and surgeon in California. We are pleased to be part of this historic and collaborative effort.’


‘The California Medical Association, the California Orthopaedic Association, and the California Podiatric Medical Association have been working collaboratively on healthcare issues focused on the attainment of the highest quality patient care in California,’ said CPMA Executive Director Jon Hultman. ‘Throughout this process, CPMA has made the strong case that the education and training of doctors of podiatric medicine have evolved and become increasingly similar to that of medical doctors. Based on this awareness, our respective organizations have agreed to form a joint task force for the purpose of evaluating the training, education, and certification of podiatric students with the goal of preparing them to be licensed as physicians and surgeons in California.’


‘I am proud to be working with the CMA and COA in achieving this important goal, especially given that our organizations have put aside political differences in order to work together in achieving two common goals of healthcare reform in California: quality patient care and wider access to that care,’ Hultman concluded.”
***
California Medical Association
Phone: 916-551-2069
California Podiatric Medical Association
Jon A. Hultman, DPM, MBA, Executive Director
Phone: 800- 794-8988
California Orthopaedic Association
Phone: 916-454-9884

1. They are going after LCME accreditation

2. LCME accredits ONLY MD Programs, in fact their by-laws EXPRESSLY PROHIBIT the accreditation of non-MD programs

3. California state law says that only people with a doctor of medicine degree can apply for an unrestricted license as a physician. This, in turn, would require LCME accreditation and then a change in the state laws.

4. To receive LCME accreditation requires an MD granting program. Therefore all DPM programs will be revamped into MD programs and the DPM will cease to exist in California as a training pathway.

5. Graduates of the new DPM-MD programs will be required to enter orthopedic surgery residency in order to obtain surgical privileges.

6. Orthopedics rejoices as they have effectivley killed off any DPM competition once the current crop of DPMs retires.

Is it really that crazy? Why in the world would orthopedic surgeons, who have been battling DPMs for YEARS, suddenly decide to join forces and and try to give MDs to DPMs? It doenst make any sense.

 

[javajava]

You're wrong, I'm right. Read the CMA press release below:

http://sdcms.org/article/cma-news-release-californias-physicians-orthopaedic-surgeons-and-podiatrists-reach-historic-





1. They are going after LCME accreditation

2. LCME accredits ONLY MD Programs, in fact their by-laws EXPRESSLY PROHIBIT the accreditation of non-MD programs

3. California state law says that only people with a doctor of medicine degree can apply for an unrestricted license as a physician. This, in turn, would require LCME accreditation and then a change in the state laws.

4. To receive LCME accreditation requires an MD granting program. Therefore all DPM programs will be revamped into MD programs and the DPM will cease to exist in California as a training pathway.

5. Graduates of the new DPM-MD programs will be required to enter orthopedic surgery residency in order to obtain surgical privileges.

6. Orthopedics rejoices as they have effectivley killed off any DPM competition once the current crop of DPMs retires.

Is it really that crazy? Why in the world would orthopedic surgeons, who have been battling DPMs for YEARS, suddenly decide to join forces and and try to give MDs to DPMs? It doenst make any sense.

So your saying that if this goes through, that all DPM grads will be forced to go through an ortho residency and a FA fellowship, thus becoming orthos rather than podiatrists when they entered Podiatric Medicine.

What I think would most likely happen is that when this goes through, DPMs will still retain their identity rather than forfeit it, however what would have changed are licensing, more privileges, maybe some laws, and equal reimbursements for procedures.

 

[robopod97]

So your saying that if this goes through, that all DPM grads will be forced to go through an ortho residency and a FA fellowship, thus becoming orthos rather than podiatrists when they entered Podiatric Medicine.

What I think would most likely happen is that when this goes through, DPMs will still retain their identity rather than forfeit it, however what would have changed are licensing, more privileges, maybe some laws, and equal reimbursements for procedures.

What he is saying is there will be no DPM grads in CA. Only DPMs wondering what happened. So if you are a current podiatric student or entering student to a CA podiatric program, you will graduate with a DPM degree. LCME has an accreditation process that starts with an entering class knowing in advance the end game is the MD degree. This is by no means an overnight process if by a long shot it happens at all.

 

[347932]

I'm a cynic and I know it. If you guys seriously think this will ever come to pass, I have some swampland for sale in Florida for you. It's a great investment, I promise.

And here it goes again, if you want to be an MD, got to allopathic medical school. Seriously.

 

[Podfather]

Are heated battles between Podiatrists and orthos a common occurrence

Not common at my hospital. We have a good relationship with ortho and they help train our residents. Because of some of my positions, I have had to meet with their leadership to discuss issues like scope of practice. Those discussions can be and have been heated.

 

[shenanigans327]

You're wrong, I'm right. Read the CMA press release below:

http://sdcms.org/article/cma-news-r...edic-surgeons-and-podiatrists-reach-historic-









1. They are going after LCME accreditation

2. LCME accredits ONLY MD Programs, in fact their by-laws EXPRESSLY PROHIBIT the accreditation of non-MD programs

3. California state law says that only people with a doctor of medicine degree can apply for an unrestricted license as a physician. This, in turn, would require LCME accreditation and then a change in the state laws.

4. To receive LCME accreditation requires an MD granting program. Therefore all DPM programs will be revamped into MD programs and the DPM will cease to exist in California as a training pathway.

5. Graduates of the new DPM-MD programs will be required to enter orthopedic surgery residency in order to obtain surgical privileges.

6. Orthopedics rejoices as they have effectivley killed off any DPM competition once the current crop of DPMs retires.

Is it really that crazy? Why in the world would orthopedic surgeons, who have been battling DPMs for YEARS, suddenly decide to join forces and and try to give MDs to DPMs? It doenst make any sense.

I have a difficult time believing this will indeed be the case. If the LCME were to accredit Western U, wouldn't that make their DO program null, as you say the LCME will not accredit a non-MD program...So as you say, Western U will phase out the DPM degree, make it an MD and be the only school in the Country that offers both MD/DO degrees granted under one roof?? I'm with Kidsfeet (and Erik Estrada) on this one, maybe I'll quit Podiatry School and go into FL real estate instead....

[youtube]pj8um1pjWaw[/youtube]

 

[Socrates25]

I have a difficult time believing this will indeed be the case. If the LCME were to accredit Western U, wouldn't that make their DO program null, as you say the LCME will not accredit a non-MD program...So as you say, Western U will phase out the DPM degree, make it an MD and be the only school in the Country that offers both MD/DO degrees granted under one roof?? I'm with Kidsfeet (and Erik Estrada) on this one, maybe I'll quit Podiatry School and go into FL real estate instead....

[YOUTUBE]pj8um1pjWaw[/YOUTUBE]

You're wrong about the claim that there is not a precedent for an MD and DO program on the same campus (hint Michigan)

 

[shenanigans327]

Maybe you misunderstood the point I was trying to make, and after reading what I wrote, I realized that I failed to clarify (my apologies). Western U. would be the ONLY school in the U.S where DO's and MD's who sit side by side in classes would be granted DO and MD degrees. MSU's example is a whole different animal altogether.

Michigan State University College of Osteopathic Medicine (D.O)
Office of Admissions
A-136 East Fee Hall
Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI 48824-1316


Michigan State University College of Human Medicine (M.D.)
15 Michigan St. NE
Grand Rapids, MI 49503

C/o Google Maps - 72 miles apart...it would be hard for these students to take classes together (i.e. in the same building)

leading me to my same point as before, how would the LCME be able to accredit a school to confer an M.D. degree while other students in the class receive a D.O. degree? Furthermore, you're proposing that only 2 of the 9 Podiatry schools in the U.S. will completely revamp their curriculum to award an MD degree (that is only valid in CA, as no other state has a proposal like this on the books) at the completion of its program? You'll have to forgive me, but this sounds like a bit of a stretch...

I personally think that this is as others have stated, a move toward parity with MD/DO's and not a replacement of a "dying" DPM degree

Also, a quick check of some of your previous posts would show more than a few conspiracy theories you have proposed about everyone and their mother in the healthcare field...sorry but I don't think the sky is falling just yet...

 

[javajava]

Not common at my hospital. We have a good relationship with ortho and they help train our residents. Because of some of my positions, I have had to meet with their leadership to discuss issues like scope of practice. Those discussions can be and have been heated.

I see, hopefully as time passes and as there is more awareness about the current and future direction of podiatry that both orthos and Podiatrists can work foot to foot with each other

 

[347932]

Just like in the allegory "Animal Farm", there will always be those that feel that they are more equal than others. How about we just transcend that, and focus on being the best Podiatric Physicians and Surgeons out there? The rest will fall into place.

 

[shenanigans327]

Just like in the allegory "Animal Farm", there will always be those that feel that they are more equal than others. How about we just transcend that, and focus on being the best Foot and Ankle Physicians and Surgeons out there? The rest will fall into place.

 

[air bud]

Just like in the allegory "Animal Farm", there will always be those that feel that they are more equal than others. How about we just transcend that, and focus on being the best Foot and Ankle Physicians and Surgeons out there? The rest will fall into place.

Uh Kidsfeet, whats going on here? I think you meant to put podiatrist, otherwise some of your other posts aren't matching up.

 

[deleted291400]

Just like in the allegory "Animal Farm", there will always be those that feel that they are more equal than others. How about we just transcend that, and focus on being the best Foot and Ankle Physicians and Surgeons out there? The rest will fall into place.

I agree 100% that we should focus on being the best foot and ankle surgeons out there but its going to take additional effort on the podiatry community's part to be seen as equal. I know we see ourselves as equal, but I'm sure everyone on here has heard of MDs are getting paid more than DPMs for the same procedures (as well as the problems with medicaid)...this isn't going to go away without us fighting for equality. I don't know about everyone else, but I am tired seeing DPMs sitting at the back of the physician bus...

Just my 2 cents...

 

[347932]

Uh Kidsfeet, whats going on here? I think you meant to put podiatrist, otherwise some of your other posts aren't matching up.

You got me. I was trying to conform to the gist of the thread. I digress. My apologies. I will edit the post and thanks.

I edited the post,but just to digress again, Orthos who are Foot and Ankle don't call themselves "Podiatric", so I guess I was using that term to encompass both Podiatrists and Foot and Ankle Orthos. But you're right, which is why I changed the terminology in my post.