CA vs. everyone else

[keiki]

hi

i was doing some thinking, and i had a question that i was hoping someone could shed some insight on. after hearing that the CA boards are notorious for being hard to pass, why is it that the pass rates for people graduating from schools outside CA are so low?? i mean, i'm sure CA school base a lot of their curriculum on the boards, but why is the level of education not as 'up to par' from schools outside CA? that's not to say other schools don't teach you well enough, i'm just wondering what it is that CA schools teach you that others don't? don't get me wrong, cause i'm going to to school outside CA! i was just scared, cause eventually i'd wanna come back to cali...

any thoughts? thanks!

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[BMBiology]

I think one of the reasons is California pharmacy students are academically stronger than students that decide to leave California and attend an out of state school. California pharmacy schools are known for their innovative and excellent curriculum, as well as their highly selective process. For example, the acceptance rate for UCSF, UCSD, USC is 14%, 5%, and 25% respectively. As I recall, this year UCSF received more than 850 applicants for 122 seats, while UCSD received appoximately 500 applicants for 25 seats and UOP received 1200 applications for 100 seats (the other 100 seats are taken by its BS/PharmD students). Although I can't support this claim with a link, I am confident that California pharmacy students, in general, have a higher overall undergraduate GPA than California residents that attend an out of state pharmacy school.

 

[jdpharmd?]

I'd say that besides the California schools preparing their students well for the boards, they are also excellent schools in general. However, I think that the biggest factor in the descrepancy is that a lot of people take the Cali boards several years after they graduate from a pharmacy school (that's not in California). Many are even looking for a place to eventually retire, and decide that California looks appealing. Imagine being out of school for ten years, working all of those years in retail, and then trying to pass the california boards (or even the NAPLEX). It's just very difficult to retain that much information, not to mention keeping up with all of the new drug developments. I think that the other factor could just be the type of people that California sometimes attracts. I can see a lot of students just barely getting out of pharmacy school (with say a 2.01gpa) in some cold state (hmm, Michigan?) and deciding that they wanted to move out west to California. I'm not saying that California attracts stupid people, but I can (and do) see a lot of stupid people who would LOVE to live in California (they're usually not pharmacists, but who knows...). After all, it's beautiful there. My parents lived there for 5 years.
My plan is to graduate in AZ, take the NAPLEX, etc in AZ and finish up any hours that need to be completed for California, work some, and then try to pass the Cali boards. We'll just have to see which side of the statistics I fall on.

Jd

 

[phar]

Originally posted by BMBiology
I think one of the reasons is California pharmacy students are academically stronger than students that decide to leave California and attend an out of state school. California pharmacy schools are known for their innovative and excellent curriculum, as well as their highly selective process. For example, the acceptance rate for UCSF, UCSD, USC is 14%, 5%, and 25% respectively. As I recall, this year UCSF received more than 850 applicants for 122 seats, while UCSD received appoximately 500 applicants for 25 seats and UOP received 1200 applications for 100 seats (the other 100 seats are taken by its BS/PharmD students). Although I can't support this claim with a link, I am confident that California pharmacy students, in general, have a higher overall undergraduate GPA than California residents that attend an out of state pharmacy school.

Don't make this forum like the pre-allo thread where there is alot about UC-? schools crap(uscf is the toughest school to get in and so on....i am ucla student and i should get into any post-graduate schoo and so on....l)....FYI, UC schools ain't that big of a competition

 

[LVPharm]

Most (if not all) out of state schools are only concerned with how well their students do on the NABPLEX, and will teach their students accordingly. Even some of the top schools outside of CA have mediocre (at best) pass/fail numbers on the CA boards. Another difference is that some of us out-of-staters have to fulfill ~900 internship hours EMPLOYED in a pharmacy (hospital or retail) before we can sit for the exam...this may mean working after graduation out of state, and as you know, the clinical knowledge from school is perishable. People working in retail are particularly worse off in this respect, because "if you don't use it, you lose it".

 

[BMBiology]

Phar,

The numbers speak for themselves.

--BMB

 

[dgroulx]

University of Florida students have a 100% pass rate on California boards, for those few students who took them. For NABPLEX, only one UF student didn't pass from last years test results. For the record, the national average score was 103.35 and UF's was 110.49.

I'm pretty sure I'd pass the California boards when I graduate, but I have no desire to move back there again. I've gotten too used to the Florida lifestyle.

 

[BMBiology]

I had to correct you here.

University of Florida had a 50% passing rate on the California Board Exam taken in June 2002. Please see link:

http://www.pharmacy.ca.gov/exam_stats_02_jun.htm

 

[phar]

how can you guys collerate the passing rate on the boards with the quality of schools?

 

[keiki]

you mean 'correlate?'

that's exactly why i posted up this topic in the first place. as bmbiology said, the numbers speak for themselves. do you beg to differ? i think we'd like to hear your opinion then perhaps on why CA school grad students have much higher passing rates than out of state.. it was mentioned already that some people might be taking them years after graduating.. seriously.. i'm not trying to pick a fight.. this topic boggles my mind.

 

[Brill]

It would seem logical to me that people from schools outside of CA do not do as well on the CA boards because schools outside of CA are not preparing their students to pass the CA boards, whereas schools in CA are. You'd probably have to do an indepth analysis of the differences in curriculum among various schools and the differences in the CA boards versus the NAPLEX to determine if that's true though.

 

[LVPharm]

Originally posted by LVPharm
...some of us out-of-staters have to fulfill ~900 internship hours EMPLOYED in a pharmacy (hospital or retail) before we can sit for the exam...

I may have spoken too soon about this...I need to contact the CABOP and verify intern experiential requirements for both the exam and licensing as a pharmacist.

 

[dgroulx]

Originally posted by BMBiology
I had to correct you here.

University of Florida had a 50% passing rate on the California Board Exam taken in June 2002. Please see link:

http://www.pharmacy.ca.gov/exam_stats_02_jun.htm

No problem, I misread the results.

Anyway, I think that CA schools teach you what is needed to pass the test in that state. Grade schools in Florida have a test called the FCAT. Students need to pass and do well, so teachers actually teach the "FCAT" test, by covering things that are known to be on the test.

I think all schools probably do this to some extent. Especially when they are judged on passage rates.

 

[BMBiology]

I have to admit when I first looked at the results, I also misread it.

 

[jdpharmd?]

Some of those results are very hard to go by. If 50% or even 0% people pass the exam, then it sounds scary. But what if only 2 people even took it? Some of the stats are very misleading, especially if only one or two people from a particular school took the exam! The same goes for having a 100% pass rate, and then looking to see that only one person took it. Also, look at the schools near California. Midwestern (AZ) for example. (where I'm going, actually) Those students seem to have had a hard time with the Cali boards, but you know who those students were? They were the 20 or 26 who couldn't get into pharmacy school in CA, so went out of state and then tried to get back in. I can't speak for them, but I doubt that they were outstanding students.

As far as admissions stats go, you can't go by number of applicants alone. California is huge. Midwestern in IL had 1,000+ applications for <200 spots, and I got in, Midwestern in AZ had 600+ applicants for 126 spots, and I got in. Ferris state had 600+ apps for 130 spots and I got killed. It also depends on what the particular school is looking for. (GPA, PCAT, Interview, essay, work experience, a degree, etc) Oh, and I think that I remember hearing that UofP had 1400 apps!

Jd

 

[BMBiology]

Originally posted by jdpharmd?
As far as admissions stats go, you can't go by number of applicants alone. California is huge.

Jd,

You are right about not using the number of application alone. Lets examine this topic closer and include additional statistics:

UCSF and UCSD
(1) Approximately 80% of accepted students have a GPA of 3.5
or higher. (2000-2001 statistics)

(2) Degree when entering: 95.9% Bachelor's, 1.6% Master's at UCSF; 95%+ Bacelor's or Master's at UCSD.

(2) Average GPA of those that received an interview at UCSD for this year is 3.55.

USC (2000-2001 statistics)
(1) Average overall GPA of students admitted: 3.47
(2) Percentage of students admitted with BA/BS: 83%

UOP (2000-2001 statistics)
(1) Average GPA of accepted students: 3.1 ? 3.4

Western (2000-2001 statistics)
(1) Average GPA accepted students: 3.13 overall
3.0 science

Considering the dramatic increase in application this year, I am confident the statistics for class of 2007 is even higher than the statistics presented. It appears that Western is the least selective pharmacy school in California and as I expected, it also has the lowest passage rate on the California Pharmacy Board. In addition according to its brochure, Western Pharmacy students spend more time in the classroom than other California pharmacy students.

http://pharmacy.ucsd.edu/admissions.shtm
http://www-chem.ucsd.edu/Academic/Ugrad/publications/pharm.school.reqts.pdf

There are other factors that contribute to the low passing rate on the California Board Exam for non California pharmacy students as posted on this thread. I believe one of those factors is that California residents, attending a non California pharmacy school, are not as academically strong as California pharmacy students. I think the numbers speak for themselves. However, I believe with hard work and determination, a California resident that attends a non California pharmacy school would have a good chance at passing the California Pharmacy Board Exam.

 

[Triangulation]

kids, kids. Don't me make have to separate you guys. let us PLEASE not fight over CA being cooler or not as cool as other places.

I don't think anyone can say CA schools are better than anywhere else. You could certainly argue that UCSF is the baddest, but generalizing about CA is not really productive. I love CA. I love Seattle more, but I love CA. I still can't say that it's anything more than anywhere else.