CACREP accreditation for future Counseling Phd/PsyD

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

NYCpsychmajor

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2011
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
Hey guys!

I did a search on this topic, but information seems scattered/vague.

Here is some information about my goals:
-I want eventually obtain a Phd/PsyD in Counseling Psychology
-Since many counseling schools seem to prefer students with a MA, I am going to be applying for Counseling Psychology MA (Mental Health Counseling) programs in the Fall.

I'm wondering how important is CACREP accreditation for Masters programs? In terms of:
-Licensure for LMHC after MA if I no longer wish to pursue further studies (I live in NY, and there doesn't appear to be any rules about this, but I'm not sure)
-Jobs post-MA
-Applications to Phd/PsyD programs


Also, I was wondering how competitive are Counseling Psychology MA programs. -I am about to be an undergrad senior, majoring in Psychology (UGPA: 3.98, MGPA: 4.00) I will be taking the GRE soon. I have been working in the research department of a non-prof organization, studying HIV and homelessness, for 2 months (8-9 months by the time I apply for grad school), and I am interviewing for a few other internships/volunteer work which is more in the line of direct care. I will only have had a few months of direct-care experience by application time.
- I assume CACREP programs are much more stringent, than non-accredited programs?

Thanks ahead of time. All/any advice is greatly appreciated!!

Members don't see this ad.
 
CACREP certification certainly doesn't hurt. It doesn't guarantee an easy path to LMHC licensure either. Much of it depends on other factors in the program such as level of supervision, access to quality practicum sites, and overall rigor of the academic program. I am finishing a Counseling Masters at Boston College, which does not have CACREP certification, but does have all of those other factors I listed. I feel that it has prepared my cohort well.

I don't know how much having CACREP cert would help in getting into a doctoral program. I've never heard of it being considered during the doctoral application process. Your qualifications (grades, work experience) sound pretty competitive for MA and many PsyD programs, but you may need a more extensive research background (authored publications, posters, presentations) before applying to PhD or university-based PsyD programs.

For getting into any doctoral program, an MA is not always necessary. If you really want doctoral training I would recommend the less costly alternative of finding a research position that results in authorship of a publication, and then apply to PhD programs that really appeal to you in terms of your research interests. Though, MA programs at high quality research universities offer great access to research teams, yet come with a high price tag.

I hear that there is an abundance of MA level clinicians in NY, so if you want to work there with only the LMHC, know that it will be very competitive for work.

As far as the differences between the type of work you'll do with an MA, PsyD, and PhD training, do a quick search on these boards. There is a ton of info. In short, if you just want to do therapy, LMHC or LICSW may be the better route (less costly and less time to licensure).
 
CACREP certification certainly doesn't hurt. It doesn't guarantee an easy path to LMHC licensure either. Much of it depends on other factors in the program such as level of supervision, access to quality practicum sites, and overall rigor of the academic program. I am finishing a Counseling Masters at Boston College, which does not have CACREP certification, but does have all of those other factors I listed. I feel that it has prepared my cohort well.

I don't know how much having CACREP cert would help in getting into a doctoral program. I've never heard of it being considered during the doctoral application process. Your qualifications (grades, work experience) sound pretty competitive for MA and many PsyD programs, but you may need a more extensive research background (authored publications, posters, presentations) before applying to PhD or university-based PsyD programs.

For getting into any doctoral program, an MA is not always necessary. If you really want doctoral training I would recommend the less costly alternative of finding a research position that results in authorship of a publication, and then apply to PhD programs that really appeal to you in terms of your research interests. Though, MA programs at high quality research universities offer great access to research teams, yet come with a high price tag.

I hear that there is an abundance of MA level clinicians in NY, so if you want to work there with only the LMHC, know that it will be very competitive for work.

As far as the differences between the type of work you'll do with an MA, PsyD, and PhD training, do a quick search on these boards. There is a ton of info. In short, if you just want to do therapy, LMHC or LICSW may be the better route (less costly and less time to licensure).


Thanks so much for the response, Guy!

Are you going for a LMHC/other counseling license? Or are you considering continuing your education?

My concern was having a more difficult time obtaining supervision compared CACREP accredited counterparts. Do you find that employers prefer CACREP program graduates?

It's a good thing to hear that you haven't had any encounters with doctoral programs that prefer accredited Masters programs, since I've heard that accredited programs do run more costly.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I watched as many of my classmates went through the doctoral application process, many being accepted out of the non-CACREP-accredited program at BC with no issue. I would recommend talking with current and former students of the programs you are interested in to find outcome information.

Employers are far more concerned with professional experience, your clinical skills, and professional recommendations than with CACREP accreditation, in my own experience anyway.

I am pursuing a PsyD starting next year. After much research I have decided that it is the best choice for me. If you would like more info please pm me.
 
You are correct that many Counseling Psych programs prefer applicants with Masters degrees. Some are neutral, but others, such as NYU Steinhardt, pretty much come out and say don't bother applying without a Masters and work experience.

As far as licensure goes, a non-CACREP program in New York will not affect that. CACREP has absolutely no bearing on your ability to become a LMHC. 80% of LMHC programs in New York State are NON-CACREP.

The Non-CACREP programs in New York are also not only just as stringent, but in my experience, are MORE so than the CACREP programs, and the reason they are resisting CACREP is because the accreditation rules would require them to get rid of their Counseling Psychologist faculty (many who are top researchers and names in the field) and replace them with "Counselor Educators".

I'm in New York City, and I think going to a CACREP program might actually hurt rather than help if a Counseling Psychology PhD is your eventual goal.

At least in New York and definitely in NYC, the programs that are the most competitive for internships and jobs, have the deepest networks including counselors and psychologists, and have access to the best research opportunities for Masters students are the non-CACREP programs (such as Columbia, Fordham, NYU, and SUNY Albany). This is because they are attached to and share faculty with Counseling Psych PhD programs.

In my own experience (as a Mental Health grad of one of the above programs) my relationships with the psychologists who were either faculty or alum of my program were absolutely central to my securing a good internship, having access to research opportunities, and securing a job after graduation. When I get to the PhD application stage (I'm waiting a few years), I will have recommendations written by Psychologists who supervised, taught, and had me on their research team. You will not have these same connections at a CACREP program.

CACREP programs, by their very definition, are separate from Counseling Psych, because their regulations require faculty to have degrees in "Counselor Education" rather than faculty who are PhD's in Psychology/licensed Psychologists. A Counselor Education faculty might satisfy CACREP, but it severely limits networks, research opportunities, and IMHO, the academic rigor of the master's programs.

For this reason, many of the non-CACREP, Counseling Psych oriented programs are actively resisting CACREP in New York and seeking alternate accreditation.

The only advantage, at the moment, to a CACREP program is that you can get a job with VA under the new rules. But considering some of the powerhouse programs are excluded from CACREP (unless they want to get rid of all their faculty or separate their Mental Health Masters and Counseling Psych PhD programs, to the detriment of their students) and are seeking alternate credentialing, that might change in the future.

But as far as non-VA LMHC jobs and becoming a Psychologist go, I think a CACREP program puts you at a disadvantage in New York, especially in NYC.

Many Mental Health internship sites in and around NYC don't even accept students outside of the NYU-Columbia-Fordham programs. They could care less about CACREP.
 
Last edited:
I don't know your financial situation, but have you considered PhD, and then stop after you get enough credits for MA?

Several years ago that was certainly possible, and since you're involved with research while getting your PhD, you not only do not pay, but also receive government subsidiary while in school, rather than pay high student fees while enrolled in MA.

Just my few cents.
 
CACREP programs, by their very definition, are separate from Counseling Psych, because their regulations require faculty to have degrees in "Counselor Education" rather than faculty who are PhD's in Psychology/licensed Psychologists. A Counselor Education faculty might satisfy CACREP, but it severely limits networks, research opportunities, and IMHO, the academic rigor of the master's programs.

That's only partially true. CACREP is beginning to require that their accredited programs have the "core" of their faculty from counselor Ed programs. Many/most programs will still have psychologists as educators.
 
I can speak to my experience going from MA in counseling psychology (non CACREP) a counseling psych PhD (will be starting at a PhD program this Fall). I started MA program thinking that I wanted to practice...and then changed my mind :)

In regards to your comments/questions -

During this year's interview process, I found that a preference for applicants with a masters was variable (from programs that require it to programs where the POI specifically told me that they prefer to take students w/out a masters). If, like I was after undergrad, you're still exploring the field, the masters could be a great option to get more experiences while building your CV.

I honestly do not think that CACREP status of your masters program matters at all in counseling psych phd applications. Maybe for counseling education PhDs it's different? No one mentioned my school not being CACREP accredited one way or the other.

I'm not in NY but I had no problems with practicum training or licensure. I did have to include a transcript and course descriptions with my application to the state, which students from CACREP programs did not have to do. Otherwise, the process was the same. It's been my experience that most supervisors/employers for masters level positions don't know or don't care about the distinction.
 
I don't know your financial situation, but have you considered PhD, and then stop after you get enough credits for MA?

Several years ago that was certainly possible, and since you're involved with research while getting your PhD, you not only do not pay, but also receive government subsidiary while in school, rather than pay high student fees while enrolled in MA.

Just my few cents.

Seems a little unethical to me as well as unfair to applicants who want the PhD but get wait listed or denied admission.
 
I don't know your financial situation, but have you considered PhD, and then stop after you get enough credits for MA?

Several years ago that was certainly possible, and since you're involved with research while getting your PhD, you not only do not pay, but also receive government subsidiary while in school, rather than pay high student fees while enrolled in MA.

Seems a little unethical to me as well as unfair to applicants who want the PhD but get wait listed or denied admission.

Not only unethical, but misleading--the MA received while en-route to the PhD is highly unlikely to be terminal/licensable. In other words, it won't get you anywhere in terms of being able to practice (and good luck transferring to another doctoral program after dropping out), so what's the point?
 
Not only unethical, but misleading--the MA received while en-route to the PhD is highly unlikely to be terminal/licensable. In other words, it won't get you anywhere in terms of being able to practice (and good luck transferring to another doctoral program after dropping out), so what's the point?

This is true for my program. We have the Counseling Psych PhD students who get an MA and then a Masters cohort who get an MS, which makes them licensable. I don't know that we COULDN'T get licensed with the MA but I think there are many more hoops to jump through.

To the OP: I know for my program CACREP doesn't matter, our MS program is intentionally not CACREP accredited bc of the separation btw Counselor Ed and Counseling Psych programs that is happening.
 
There are only two doctoral level CACREP programs in New York and these are PhD or EdD programs in counselor education rather than counseling psychology. Normally counseling psychology doctoral programs are accredited through APA. The majority of CACREP accredited programs are at the MA level with only around 30 doctoral CACREP approved counselor education programs.

State Institution ^Program Type CACREP Start CACREP Expires Degree LinkMore InfoNYSyracuse UniversityCounselor Education and Supervision04/01/9410/31/16Ph.D.WebsiteDetailNYUniversity of RochesterCounselor Education and Supervision03/01/0310/31/12Ed.D./Ph.D.Website

If you want to eventually acquire the PhD in counseling psychology you may need to look into counseling psychology programs at the MA level. These program lead to masters level licensure in psychology whereas counseling program leed to masters level licensure in counseling such as an LPC. There is a distinction and a totally different level of competence for counseling psychology MA programs amd counseling MA programs and normally they are in different departments, psychology and education, respectfully.
 
If you want to eventually acquire the PhD in counseling psychology you may need to look into counseling psychology programs at the MA level. These program lead to masters level licensure in psychology whereas counseling program leed to masters level licensure in counseling such as an LPC. There is a distinction and a totally different level of competence for counseling psychology MA programs amd counseling MA programs and normally they are in different departments, psychology and education, respectfully.

Not necessarily true. Someone with a masters in counseling from a CACREP program can certainly apply to a counseling psychology PhD program that is APA accredited. Also, counseling MA vs. counseling psychology MA are not all that different--yes, they are often in different departments, with different names for courses, but they lead to the same licensure (LPC) and students are often working side-by-side in practicums. In many places, there is NO masters level licensure in psychology!! If there is, it is as a psychological assistant--graduates are likely to also be eligible for LPC licensure, depending on coursework.
 
I live in Georgia and have an M.Ed. from a CACREP program and for my state it knocked off a year of required supervision post graduation. Also, different types of Master's degrees don't necessarily affect your chances of getting into a Counseling Psychology PhD program AS LONG AS somewhere along the line you get some research experience. In my program I had to seek out research experience as it was not part of the CACREP requirements to graduate. Also, I was accepted into 3 Counseling Psychology PhD programs this year and I am going to my top choice (a school in NY state).

CACREP is moving toward having more Counselor Educators as their core faculty, but at this moment most schools have Counseling Psychology faculty.

Given the competitive nature of Counseling Psych PhD programs I chose to go the Master's route in case I couldn't get in. It helped because my first round of applications yielded no acceptances so I was at least able to practice therapy for the year in between. This turned out to give me a phenomenal advantage during my interviews this year because I could speak to my real life experiences of working with diverse clientele, dealing with managed care, building a caseload, etc. It also helped to sharpen my reasons for continuing on to a PhD. There are also some schools, such as the University of Georgia that only accept people with a Master's degree, and they often prefer those with experience, so check the programs you think you would like to go to and see what their approach is to applicants.

However, it doesn't make my PhD much shorter than it would have if I was entering with just a B.S. in Psychology. Also, I now have the lingering debt from my Master's program as I was only able to secure an assistantship for one of the two years. Keep in mind that most M.A. programs probably don't offer assistantships as they are usually reserved for PhD students.

There are definitely pros and cons and you'll have to figure out what would fit your situation and personality best.
 
It really is interesting to see all the misinformation about CACREP!

If you are in a counseling program (not psych) CACREP IS VERY IMPORTANT. VA is not the only licensing board that looks at CACREP. If you are applying for an LPC, it is easier to get your education approved if you come from a CACREP school. I have hear horrow stories (and have even know a person) whom came from a non-CACREP school and had to repeat 10 classes to meet standards!!!! That does not mean that you have to repeat your program BUT be prepared to document and provide past syllabi that shows each class meets one of the required educational areas.

Second, I am suprised to heat that a counseling psych program would be CACREP approved. CACREP is for those in the counseling field (within the education dept) not psychology within arts/science. Though the two program do study a lot of the same things, (theories, research, skills)... they are considered different. Both fields are also working hard to create their own identities...

As someone noted, it will become a lot more difficult for counseling psych to work within counseling programs (but still wont be impossible, you just can not be part of the core faculty)...

Last of all (to avoid a rant) I am dissapointed to hear that somepeople beleive that CACREP is only s nuisance. That is not true. Yes, getting accreditaion can be tedious but how does that differ from going to an APA accredited school? Accreditaion is important (as it applies to application for insurance acceptance, licenses... and so forth). Second of all, CACREP is also set up to advocate for its programs. It is not a bully that some people make it out to be, their goal is not to limit programs but to help them. If you look closely at some of their standards, they are set at more of an institutional level... that can help the program (e.g. student prof levels, helps stident and professors... from an institutional level this helps the counseling department)

By now, I am assuming that you are already in your studies... I wish you luck wherever you may be.
 
Top