Calc-based Physics

[Toastayy]

So, I have searched the forums regarding the topic of my thread, and I have found a couple answers, But I still have a couple more questions.

People say that we can take Algebra based Physics vs. Calc Based physics..and Med Schools don't care either way. But how many of you all go to a school where Calculus II is required for Calc Based Physics II? My school requires Calc I for the first half of physics, and Calc II for the second half...I am currently taking Calc I and expecting an A, but I really don't want to take another semester of Calculus. So is it worth it to take Calc II? or should I just take the first half of physics Calc based and the second half Algebra based?


And no, there isn't a first half of physics that does not require Calc I, i'm just inquiring if taking Calc II is worth it..

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[ksmi117]

Not worth it. They just want to see that you have taken physics.

 

[Catalystik]

Only five US allopathic med schools require two Calculus courses. It should be easy enough to avoid applying to those.

 

[xanthomondo]

Sounds like you're doing fine in calc. Take the second semester - you never want to limit yourself simply because you "didn't feel like taking it"

 

[TheMightySmiter]

Sounds like you're doing fine in calc. Take the second semester - you never want to limit yourself simply because you "didn't feel like taking it"

I tend to agree with this, although to be fair Calc II was significantly harder than Calc I (in my experience).

OP, if you really don't want to take another semester of Calc and have a tough course schedule next semester otherwise, it's fine to do algebra-based Phys II. If you just don't want to do Calc II out of laziness, though, I think you should take it.

 

[Rankik]

I would recommend not taking calculus II if you have no interest in it and to just take the algebra based physics. The reason being is that calculus II is a lot more complex, and depending on your professor, they can make it a real nightmare. The main focus in cal II is advance integration techniques, I remember having problems that would take 2 - 3 pages for each one. The polar cords and such are easy, but it is the intergtation that can really hit you hard.

Also, it will come back in physics II, espically when you are using Gauss' law, it just makes you do more work. I again recommend going the algebra route, as it is very unlikly you will do any integration on the MCAT and you don't want to risk your gpa due to harder classes.

 

[sully677]

So, I have searched the forums regarding the topic of my thread, and I have found a couple answers, But I still have a couple more questions.

People say that we can take Algebra based Physics vs. Calc Based physics..and Med Schools don't care either way. But how many of you all go to a school where Calculus II is required for Calc Based Physics II? My school requires Calc I for the first half of physics, and Calc II for the second half...I am currently taking Calc I and expecting an A, but I really don't want to take another semester of Calculus. So is it worth it to take Calc II? or should I just take the first half of physics Calc based and the second half Algebra based?


And no, there isn't a first half of physics that does not require Calc I, i'm just inquiring if taking Calc II is worth it..

Most Calc Phys II classes require some form of Calc II. Although you won't use much of it in the physics class, it is required. I wouldn't suggest taking the first of Calc Phys and the second algebra based. People will look suscpicously upon that. I would suggest taking Calc II because classes don't get any easier from here on out.

 

[xanthomondo]

I would recommend not taking calculus II if you have no interest in it and to just take the algebra based physics. The reason being is that calculus II is a lot more complex, and depending on your professor, they can make it a real nightmare. The main focus in cal II is advance integration techniques, I remember having problems that would take 2 - 3 pages for each one. The polar cords and such are easy, but it is the intergtation that can really hit you hard.

Also, it will come back in physics II, espically when you are using Gauss' law, it just makes you do more work. I again recommend going the algebra route, as it is very unlikly you will do any integration on the MCAT and you donlt want to risk your gpa due to harder classes.

This is what makes pre-meds pathetic.

 

[circulus vitios]

Why does everyone hate calculus based physics? It's a lot more elegant than ugly algebra based physics.

 

[Rankik]

This is what makes pre-meds pathetic.

Why? It is not a requirement for med school (excpet for the 5 or so that were mentioned in the other posts of this thread) and I highly doubt that calculus II is going to be a factor in the medical field. You should want to take the route that will give you the best chance as far as applications go for medical school, why go throuh the chance of knocking down your gpa and risking more rejections.

Also, avoiding the calculus II will not get rid of all the other hurdles needed to get into medical school,, MCAT being the biggest one and also the interview process. I say you do what it takes to give yourself the best chance possible to become a doctor if that is your goal. You will still need to take the USMLE during medical school, not going to avoid that either, and if you (and by you I mean in the general sense, not the poster I am quoting) are unable to meet a passing grade on this, then it will stop anyone who truly is unable to become a doctor. And again, I really don't see Calculus II playing a role into this part either.

 

[jgauger]

This is what makes pre-meds pathetic.

I would say that this is what makes the system pathetic. Although its sad, it is what it is and we all know that. In reality GPA is far more important than calc physics if you really want to be a doctor. Its the system, not the students that are pathetic.

 

[xanthomondo]

I would say that this is what makes the system pathetic. Although its sad, it is what it is and we all know that. In reality GPA is far more important than calc physics if you really want to be a doctor. Its the system, not the students that are pathetic.

Sure, you can blame it on the system, but really you make it what it is. Needing a high GPA as motivation to study your ass off and kill your classes? That's fine. But to look at the list of offered classes and choose based off what would be the easiest to get a 4.0 in? Blatantly not taking classes because you might get a B+ in it? Pathetic.

I hate when people always look for the easy way out. Use your 4 (or 3) years in undergrad to the best you can. Learn everything you can that interests you. But don't look for the easy cop-out for every class. It's part of what gives pre-meds a bad stereotype.

 

[CapnCrunch]

Sure, you can blame it on the system, but really you make it what it is. Needing a high GPA as motivation to study your ass off and kill your classes? That's fine. But to look at the list of offered classes and choose based off what would be the easiest to get a 4.0 in? Blatantly not taking classes because you might get a B+ in it? Pathetic.

I hate when people always look for the easy way out. Use your 4 (or 3) years in undergrad to the best you can. Learn everything you can that interests you. But don't look for the easy cop-out for every class. It's part of what gives pre-meds a bad stereotype.

No one rationally wants to risk their chances of getting in to medical school. The consistency of classes offered at universities (at least mine) is pathetic. Why should I be compared to someone who took the same level of ochem with a different professor who decided to offer 30 points extra credit overall and then offer to his class an option to have the final exam count as their final grade in the class whereas another professor has significantly harder exams (I can prove it, I have both exams) and offers bell curve. I also was in an ENG 101 class where my instructor missed 7 days of class during the semester and then "lost her gradebook" and then offered an additional letter grade on a single essay if you brought back all three essays. Needless to say, well over 80% of my class got an A. And the only other reason the 20% got anything lower was because they didn't DO one or more essays...

Reading so many threads where "my GPA is 2.7" and they ask what their chances are... well it looks slim. There's no need to risk getting anything lower than an A if that means choosing a less challenging class or professor. You don't need a challenging class to learn, just a good textbook.

 

[boaz]

I can say that if I was in your situation I'd go for the calc based physics II. In the real world there's no such thing as algebra based physics.

 

[Orbo]

Taking physics without calculus is like taking Chinese literature without being able to read Chinese.

 

[boaz]

Taking physics without calculus is like taking Chinese literature without being able to read Chinese.

Well said!

 

[Usernamed]

Given the choice between taking a calc-based physics course and eating a light bulb, I'd rather take my chances with Edison.

 

[TheMightySmiter]

Calculus helps so much in understanding physics. Otherwise it's just a bunch of equations.

 

[StormingWynn]

Calculus helps so much in understanding physics. Otherwise it's just a bunch of equations.

And what is calculus? A bunch of derived equations. Actually, to do well in physics, both calc-based and algebra-based, you need to understand the concepts.

 

[afugazzi]

I've taught both calc and non calc based physics and they're basically the same. Just check your that nothing with your desired major requires calc-based (some majors do) and you should be fine just doing algebra based.

 

[JonSwan]

I don't think the level of work required for algebra vs. calc based physics differs by all that much. You're either memorizing one set of equations or a slightly different set of equations but either way you'll only succeed if you understand the concepts behind those equations. Take calc II and calc based physics. It looks more impressive and is probably not much more difficult.

 

[TheMightySmiter]

And what is calculus? A bunch of derived equations. Actually, to do well in physics, both calc-based and algebra-based, you need to understand the concepts.

Calculus is a lot more than a bunch of equations. You need to know what the equations mean, especially in higher-level calculus. My point was that calculus helps you understand the concepts in physics much more than algebra does.

 

[nwilkes]

Take Calc II and the Calc based physics! Do it! You know you want to.

I am taking calc II at my university, after having taken calc 1 a year ago at a CC...actually, calc I was much harder because all the calculus thinking process is new. Once you've been doing it for a semester, it becomes easier. Trust me, Calc II is a breeze!!

Plus, taking calc-based physics allows you more options. For example, I already took algebra based physics for my first major (Bio)...then decided I really loved chem - so now I have to take another year of physics, calc based this time for the 2nd major. Besides, calculus makes physics so much easier and much clearer!

 

[StormingWynn]

Calculus is a lot more than a bunch of equations. You need to know what the equations mean, especially in higher-level calculus. My point was that calculus helps you understand the concepts in physics much more than algebra does.

Speak for yourself, I actually think that algebra helped me understand the equations better than calculus. In the end, what you need to do is understand the concept, mentally not mathematically. You can't tell someone that every object is affected equally by gravity with mathematics, all that'll do is confuse them more. What you need to do is show them physically. Get what I'm saying?

 

[xanthomondo]

Why should I be compared to someone who took the same level of ochem with a different professor who blah blah blah easier easier easier.

I hate the "other professor is easy" crap as well. This ALWAYS was an excuse in gen chem 2, my freshman year. I had the "easy" teacher (we didn't get to choose our advisors did) but we took the exam with the "hard" teacher's class. Our tests would be 5-7 pages long, whereas the other teacher's exam would be 20-30 pages thick. Kids FREAKED OUT, and when they failed they always blamed it being for them having the harder teacher. After the exams were returned I asked my friend to see his harder test.

What was the only difference between the exams? My teacher put 3-4 questions per page, where as the other teacher put 1 question per page (which all questions were worded identically). It didn't matter to the students, the entire semester all you heard was how much harder teacher x was over teacher y and how lucky I was because my tests weren't 30 pages long.

The harder teacher is probably going to have you learn more. Why would you consider that a bad thing? Of course, because you don't need it to be a doctor. Don't be so short sighted and try to learn the material instead of just looking for an easy pass through. What's the worst that a *hard* teacher is going to do, give you a B instead of an A? Your chances at medical school won't be killed if you get a B here or there.

The kid with the 2.7 GPA didn't have a string of hard professors or have impossible classes. They got a 2.7 GPA because they didn't work as hard as they should have in their classes. GPA is supposed to resemble how hard you worked in classes and learned, not how well you were able to cop-out of taking challenging classes and always taking the easy way out.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

Given the choice between taking a calc-based physics course and eating a light bulb, I'd rather take my chances with Edison.

Taking calculus based physics is an irrelevant, time wasting GPA killer. At 99% of the medical schools in the US you will get no credit for taking calc based physics. Calc based physics sets you up for taking six math and science classes per year during your first two years of college.

If you take calc based physics your GPA will end up in the land of medical school disqualification. Your spot in medical school will go to some anthropology major who took 3 science classes per year at a college with a median ACT of 22.1. Don't be an idiot!

 

[Compass]

I took calculus-based physics and got an A in it both semesters, and then I took the Physics Lab linked to it and got an A in that too. 10 credits of As!

It was required for my major, of course.

 

[Toastayy]

Okay, thanks for everyone's input, although I didn't know this would start a little argument about the pre-med system etc...It's not that I am too lazy to take Calc II, but currently I am in my last semester of my sophomore year and I've only now just finished my gen chem reqs, and the first semester of Bio. I wanted to finish all the pre-med reqs at some point in my jr year, and was wondering if Calc II was worth it instead of another pre-med course.

As for my course load next semester I will be taking Orgo, Bio, and SPCH (req) along with their labs, working in a lab for 10 hrs, tutoring for 10hrs, volunteering, and managing a couple clubs...so I just don't want to feel overloaded like I did this semester (mainly due to time management)..altho on this forum my schedule seems like a routine day to day basis.

That's why I was wondering if I should waste the time and an extra semester taking Calc II before I take Physics...

 

[Toastayy]

Oh and btw Compass..I'm happy for you and your good grades...but ur post didn't even try to answer my question...and it seemed like you just came here to boast...which really doesn't help me in anyway shape or form..

 

[Abby_Normal]

This probably varies school to school, but I'm pretty sure that if you've taken Calc I, you should be able to take calc-based physics, or at least the first semester of it (during which you could always take calc II, if you had to). I took physics after taking two semesters of calc and I don't remember using much of what I learned in calc II, at least. If you're uncertain, talk to science department and get their take.

 

[Luun]

I opted to take non-Calc based physics. I did well in Calculus I, but I understand concepts better in term of Algebra.

I have lots of friend that took calc based physics at the same time that I took non-calc based. First semester was similar between the classes, but once we got to Physics II they were definitely having a rough time. Then again, I can't say anything about their calculus background.

 

[TheLoveMD]

OP, I was in a similar situation last semester.

The only difference was I had already taken Calc II and gotten an A, and I had taken an INTRO to calc based phys course (before calc based phys I)

I changed my major from chem (where calc phys is required) to biol (where gen phys is required) that semester.

I elected to begin general physics. Although i got an A in the intro to phys class, it was ALOTTTTTTTTT of intense problem solving which i did not seem to believe extremely beneficial to my career aspirations.

I finished my first semester of gen phys tuesday and didnt miss a single question on any exam, so, to tell the truth, I believe i would have done well in calc phys, but taking tha talong with biol and organo didnt seem like the best idea.

CONCLUSION: take general physics, calc based is overkill IMO.

 

[Rankik]

OP, I was in a similar situation last semester.

The only difference was I had already taken Calc II and gotten an A, and I had taken an INTRO to calc based phys course (before calc based phys I)

I changed my major from chem (where calc phys is required) to biol (where gen phys is required) that semester.

I elected to begin general physics. Although i got an A in the intro to phys class, it was ALOTTTTTTTTT of intense problem solving which i did not seem to believe extremely beneficial to my career aspirations.

I finished my first semester of gen phys tuesday and didnt miss a single question on any exam, so, to tell the truth, I believe i would have done well in calc phys, but taking tha talong with biol and organo didnt seem like the best idea.

CONCLUSION: take general physics, calc based is overkill IMO.

Completely agree with this post. It is overkill if your goal is just to be a doctor, and also you have stated you have no interest in learing Cal II. I have taken calculus based physics (3 semesters worth due to an old major), and I am not saying that it is a bad thing, I loved physics and the math worked well with it. However, with the fact being that the goal is to get into medical, there is no reason to take the harder version when it will not offer any kind of benefit, unless you really enjoy learning that subject matter.

 

[FlowRate]

Sure, you can blame it on the system, but really you make it what it is. Needing a high GPA as motivation to study your ass off and kill your classes? That's fine. But to look at the list of offered classes and choose based off what would be the easiest to get a 4.0 in? Blatantly not taking classes because you might get a B+ in it? Pathetic.

I hate when people always look for the easy way out. Use your 4 (or 3) years in undergrad to the best you can. Learn everything you can that interests you. But don't look for the easy cop-out for every class. It's part of what gives pre-meds a bad stereotype.

I agree. I know that not everyone "has the same strengths" but listening to people complain about an extra semester of calc is just grating grade grubbing. I value learning a bit more than a few GPA points, I reckon that's what med schools want, too.