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I hear from everyone how hard it is to get into any Cali state schools, some even claim it harder than getting into top 5 private schools. Now if you are from Cali, and got into schools like UCLA or UCSD and also into schools like UPENN or JH, where would rather go? Go for lower price and greater location? Or pay for greater reputation by higher price and sucky location?

I will have to make the decision soon. Thanks for your opinions.
 

blump

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Vacant said:
I hear from everyone how hard it is to get into any Cali state schools, some even claim it harder than getting into top 5 private schools. Now if you are from Cali, and got into schools like UCLA or UCSD and also into schools like UPENN or JH, where would rather go? Go for lower price and greater location? Or pay for greater reputation by higher price and sucky location?

I will have to make the decision soon. Thanks for your opinions.
Its' really up to you, whethe you would be happy in Baltimore for instance. I would choose UCLA or UCSD if you want to end up doing residency in California.
 
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I wanted to ask that as well: I did hear I should choose the school in the state that I plan to do residency in. Why is that so? Is it because it's harder to come back to CA for residency?

Thanks for your reply.
 

blump

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Vacant said:
I wanted to ask that as well: I did hear I should choose the school in the state that I plan to do residency in. Why is that so? Is it because it's harder to come back to CA for residency?

Thanks for your reply.
Well, thats not really true. But, you should look at the respective schools' match lists and see where they match. You will see some schools are more Cali-bound than others.
 

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that is true if you go to just an ok or above average private med school out of the state you want to practice in. Coming out of Hopkins or PENN though you can get a residency anywhere you want to. It is a lot like law schools. You go to the best school in the town or area you want to practice in, however; if you go to the absoulute top places you can work anywhere.

So about your decision it really comes down to location and where you feel happier. If you want to definately stay in academics then I would give hopkins or PENN a slight edge. Also interms of price the UCs are not as cheap as they once were but still better deal than a private school, but PENN and hopkins have a ton of money so may be able to give more scholarships. In the end you have a good choice to make. good luck


Vacant said:
I wanted to ask that as well: I did hear I should choose the school in the state that I plan to do residency in. Why is that so? Is it because it's harder to come back to CA for residency?

Thanks for your reply.
 

supersnuffles

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From what I've heard, I don't know if this is necessarily hard fact, that getting back into the UCs is extremely hard once you go out of state. This holds true for medical school and residency. I believe its because you don't show commitment to the state. And well, UCs have a general trend of liking to take care of their own first.
 

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Stay in Cali for all the reasons above. If you are concerned about prestige and plan on practicing anywhere out West, JHU, etc. will not carry the weight that the UCs will, imho.
 

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It is pretty hard to pass up an opportunity to go to JHU, regardless of which state you are from. I think in terms of getting a CA residency, it depends on which field you want to get into. If it's internal med, EM, or anything along those lines, it shouldn't be difficult to come back to CA. If its the more competitive ones like Rad Onc, Derm, or Opth, then it might be a different story. But then again, those are difficult to get regardless of where you went to med school. Having a big name attached to you for the rest of your life can only be beneficial ANYWHERE in the US including CA. It's a tought decision to make, but in the end, it might be better to go for the big name and work your tail off to get a good CA residency.
 

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If location is that important to you or you know that you want to do residency in CA, then staying out there would not hurt. UCs do a pretty good job of taking care of their own. In addition, by being a student in the UC system, you can establish connections very easily, which can go a long way when applying for residency and faculty positions.

If you want to go into academics and can see yourself possibly going outside of CA, then Penn or Hopkins are great choices. Both of those programs have a better reputation nationally than the UCs and may open some doors. If you're an outstanding applicant, it probably doesn't matter so much where you go for med school. You can always do away rotations in CA if by 4th year you know you want to be back in CA, or anywhere else for that matter. Whatever you do, don't come to the east coast just for the reputation of a school if you know you'll be miserable.

Good luck. You have lots of good options and can't really go wrong.
 

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I wish this was my problem. Still no acceptances.

I don't think its harder to get into Cali schools. So far, I've interviewed at 2/3 Calif schools I've applied to and only 1 top 5 school. Caveat, I only applied to lower UCs (UCSD, UCI) and Stanford. It may just be that my bioeng degree (and corresponding lower GPA) means more to a Cali school who is familiar with my program (and its traditionally lower engingeering GPAs), but I'm inclined to think the top schools are harder.

I've actually heard that cali schools LIKE residents from out of state to mix up the training influences. Sharing of ideas and whatnot. For example, my mom's residents at USC (optho, which we all know is competitive) seem to be from Harvard, Hopkins, Yale.....
 

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Stay in California. You'll be happier in the long run. Especially if you got into Hopkins. I didn't get into any UC's so leave that Hopkins spot for me! :D
 

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I already posted this in the Cali thread but I'll go ahead and stick it in here also:

As I've posted before, residency matching boils down to two things: board scores and quality of clerkship references. The reason top schools match competitively is because the faculty from these schools that administer the recommendations have excellent reputations in the nation. If you rock your boards and have LORs from these prestigious faculty you are golden for any recidency that you like. That said, there is no need to remain in CA if you're only reason is that you'd like to match residency there. I guarantee Yale and Penn will grant you the same opportunities. Not to mention that you are encouraged to do some away rotations during your 4th year, giving you ample opportunity to makes some "connections" at the hospital of your choice. On the same token, I wouldn't neglect the fact that UCSD and UCLA are still excellent schools. They may not be top 5 but they are certainly top 10 and there really isn't a whole lotta difference there to be honest. I would opt for LA over SD (was at UCSD undergrad and was not impressed by the med program or it's students), but this is only my personal preference.
 

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HOw would USC compare to the other UC schools for getting residencies in California? What about for the more competitive residencies? I would think that if you get good board scores and recs, you should be able to crack a good residency, especially considering the fact that USC is moving up in rankings. Any thoughts?
 

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locks said:
HOw would USC compare to the other UC schools for getting residencies in California? What about for the more competitive residencies? I would think that if you get good board scores and recs, you should be able to crack a good residency, especially considering the fact that USC is moving up in rankings. Any thoughts?
USC matches something like 90% in California (don't quote me on this). Whatever it is, it is very high. Many of those are less-competitive primary care residencies, but many are at USC, UCLA, UCSD, etc.
 

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patzan said:
If you are concerned about prestige and plan on practicing anywhere out West, JHU, etc. will not carry the weight that the UCs will, imho.
So the absolute best medical schools are not considered the best on the west coast? Another case of Californians being unaware of everything else in the US? :rolleyes:

UCSF is comparable to JHU, PENN, Yale, etc. but come on.
 

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YzIa said:
So the absolute best medical schools are not considered the best on the west coast? Another case of Californians being unaware of everything else in the US? :rolleyes:

UCSF is comparable to JHU, PENN, Yale, etc. but come on.
I am not a Californian, but I'd bet if you polled California doctors, they would look upon a UCLA degree with higher regard than a Wash U (ok, midwest) or Penn degree.
 

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patzan said:
I am not a Californian, but I'd bet if you polled California doctors, they would look upon a UCLA degree with higher regard than a Wash U (ok, midwest) or Penn degree.
Wash U has a strange reputation on this site, but I find it hard to believe that an MD from UCLA would be looked upon in higher regard than an MD from Penn or Wash U (Hopkins, Harvard, Yale, Duke). That is just pure homerism.
 

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YzIa said:
Wash U has a strange reputation on this site, but I find it hard to believe that an MD from UCLA would be looked upon in higher regard than an MD from Penn or Wash U (Hopkins, Harvard, Yale, Duke). That is just pure homerism.
i don't know about doctors, but among the general population in southern california, a school like ucla or ucsd would be far more respected than washu, duke, michigan, uwash, baylor, pitt, vandy, etc. mostly because no one really knows these schools exist. harvard, hopkins, columbia, stanford, yale, cornell are all well known. possibly ucsf and penn also.

whether or not it's homerism doesn't really much matter does it? what are you gonna do, keep a copy of usnews on you at all times and "correct" your patients? :laugh:
 

exmike

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You guys are crazy if you think a UCSD grad will be considered "better educated" than a JHU one. Look at the residency lists for uber competitive rediencies in CA such as ophtho, plastics, derm, rad onc. Youll see they're full of hopkins, harvard, yale, penn, duke students, not UC.

Oh and to the OP, just get into UCSF then your problem is solved ;)
 

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exmike said:
You guys are crazy if you think a UCSD grad will be considered "better educated" than a JHU one. Look at the residency lists for uber competitive rediencies in CA such as ophtho, plastics, derm, rad onc. Youll see they're full of hopkins, harvard, yale, penn, duke students, not UC.

Oh and to the OP, just get into UCSF then your problem is solved ;)
I'm sure residency directors have their copy of US News available. Most other people do not. Like it was said...deal with it, that's how it is. Most people don't know that penn is ivy league.
 

locks

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Even though Dartmouth is located in such a rural area, it does have a great clinical teaching reputantio. How do you guys think CA residency directors would consider Dartmouth to the UC schools aforementioned or USC, for that matter?
 

patzan

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locks said:
Even though Dartmouth is located in such a rural area, it does have a great clinical teaching reputantio. How do you guys think CA residency directors would consider Dartmouth to the UC schools aforementioned or USC, for that matter?
I have no idea. You might want to ask one yourself. I am going to avoid any speculation because I forgot my flame-proof pants today.
 

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automaton said:
i don't know about doctors, but among the general population in southern california, a school like ucla or ucsd would be far more respected than washu, duke, michigan, uwash, baylor, pitt, vandy, etc. mostly because no one really knows these schools exist. harvard, hopkins, columbia, stanford, yale, cornell are all well known. possibly ucsf and penn also.

whether or not it's homerism doesn't really much matter does it? what are you gonna do, keep a copy of usnews on you at all times and "correct" your patients? :laugh:
This isnt about rankings, and I suppose it being homerism is besides the point. But it is fantastically stupid if an MD from UCLA or UCSD is more highly regarded than an MD from a legit elite school. Look at peer assessments and assessments by residency directors you will see that both UC schools are great, but well below that of the schools that the OP is comparing them too.
 

automaton

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so are you saying that patients in southern california are "fantastically stupid"? i'll be sure to keep a print out of the residency directors ratings in case i ever meet of these misguided clients.
 

YzIa

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automaton said:
so are you saying that patients in southern california are "fantastically stupid"? i'll be sure to keep a print out of the residency directors ratings in case i ever meet of these misguided clients.
I am not talking about patients. Do you really think patients care or know anything indepth about medical education? I assume this thread was started not comparing the schools from a patients point of view, but for residency/jobs after med school or as a direct comparison of medical schools. If it is the later, you have to at some point decide what makes medical schools better than another, and regardless of what you choose UCLA and UCSD can't stack up against the top schools unless you decide to compare based on percentage of california residents in the incoming class.
I tell you what, I'll stay away from Cali, and you people can stay there and we'll never have to interact again and all be happy. :D

Now that I think about it, if you really want to misinterpret what I said as patients in southern california being fantastically stupid, then go right ahead.
 

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were not talking about patients here. Patients could care less where you went to school as long as you provide quality care. we're talking about school reputation for residency matching.
 
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Thanks all for thoughtful replies.

I got rejected from UCSF; maybe they didn't like my secondaries. Got accepted to UCLA, UCSD, JHU and waiting for UPenn. I hesitate because I hear how hard it is to get into UC's for competitive applicants, even harder than top private schools. Any know someone who chose UC's over other top private schools? I know that UCLA and UCSD rank 14-16 in research and top 6 in primary for UCSD (don't know of UCLA) which are still high considering 125 US med schools. Those of you who interviewed at JHU or UPenn, why would you choose them?
 

exmike

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Vacant said:
Thanks all for thoughtful replies.

I got rejected from UCSF; maybe they didn't like my secondaries. Got accepted to UCLA, UCSD, JHU and waiting for UPenn. I hesitate because I hear how hard it is to get into UC's for competitive applicants, even harder than top private schools. Any know someone who chose UC's over other top private schools? I know that UCLA and UCSD rank 14-16 in research and top 6 in primary for UCSD (don't know of UCLA) which are still high considering 125 US med schools. Those of you who interviewed at JHU or UPenn, why would you choose them?
You'll need to trust us that its much harder to get into Johns Hopkins than UCLA. Please go to JHU and dont squander an opportunity many of us would kill for!
 

patzan

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Go where you want to, not where US News tells you to. If you don't want to live in Baltimore, don't do it. If you do...go for it. UCLA will impress people in California every bit as Hopkins will, if that is what you are worried about (it seems to be what others are worried about and disagree with me about).
 

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automaton said:
i don't know about doctors, but among the general population in southern california, a school like ucla or ucsd would be far more respected than washu, duke, michigan, uwash, baylor, pitt, vandy, etc. mostly because no one really knows these schools exist. harvard, hopkins, columbia, stanford, yale, cornell are all well known. possibly ucsf and penn also.

whether or not it's homerism doesn't really much matter does it? what are you gonna do, keep a copy of usnews on you at all times and "correct" your patients? :laugh:
I agree. Harvard, Hopkins, Columbia, Stanford, Yale and maybe Cornell are well known inside and outside california as great schools in general. People in california don't even know UCSF exists. I know its wrong, but most people in california think that WashU is in DC, Duke is a hick basketball school with a coach who blatantly compares himself to wooden, Baylor's in texas, and vandy is a racist school in the south somewhere. The nation might not think that UCLA/UCSD is better than those aforementioned, but the general public in California think of UCLA/UCSD a hair below Hopkins and Harvard.
 

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Shaz said:
I agree. Harvard, Hopkins, Columbia, Stanford, Yale and maybe Cornell are well known inside and outside california as great schools in general. People in california don't even know UCSF exists. I know its wrong, but most people in california think that WashU is in DC, Duke is a hick basketball school with a coach who blatantly compares himself to wooden, Baylor's in texas, and vandy is a racist school in the south somewhere. The nation might not think that UCLA/UCSD is better than those aforementioned, but the general public in California think of UCLA/UCSD a hair below Hopkins and Harvard.
:laugh: Referring to the general public, that's probably pretty accurate.
 

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Shaz said:
People in california don't even know UCSF exists.
Ok I have to agree this is really true. My parents, who have lived in the SF Bay Area for the last 25 years, barely knew UCSF existed until I applied to medical school. My dad kept bugging me "go to Stanford, go to Stanford" (ha dad, they have to let me in first), and then he wouldn't believe me when I told him that UCSF is actually the higher ranked school of the two.

Anyway, to the OP, I'd probably choose between Hopkins and UCLA. (I'd choose UCLA over UCSD, partially because of the new curriculum that UCLA has while UCSD is very lecture based). I loved both schools when I interviewed (well, actually I liked all three). LA is the nicer place to live, while Baltimore is quickly becoming the murder capital of the US (but apparently only if you are involved in the drug trade). Also, with UCLA, you can't beat in-state tuition, despite the possible fee hikes. But Hopkins has a name in the medical community that is only matched by the likes of Harvard, UPenn, etc, which means connections. And my interviewer at Hopkins said that 98% of their students get one of their top three choices for residency.

Good luck.
 

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NICE!! Perfectly illustrative comparison (and I'm a born/bred Californian!)
Is this a comparison of SF to LA?
 

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Vacant said:
I hear from everyone how hard it is to get into any Cali state schools, some even claim it harder than getting into top 5 private schools. Now if you are from Cali, and got into schools like UCLA or UCSD and also into schools like UPENN or JH, where would rather go? Go for lower price and greater location? Or pay for greater reputation by higher price and sucky location?

I will have to make the decision soon. Thanks for your opinions.
I think all of those schools have excellent reputations. One is "better" than the others, but only in regards to whether or not it's the right choice for YOU and you only.
Clearly you are an impressive, intelligent, and motivated person if you were accepted to these schools... Given that you aren't going to have a complete reversal of your personality in the next four years, you're going to do very well in med school regardless of where you go.
Bottom line is, you are still going to be impressive in four years, and you will get into a good residency program regardless of which of these schools you choose. So choose the one that feels right!

I'm going to qualify this and say if the reputation is the *highest* priority for you, go to one of the top 5 schools.
 

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I don't think you will have a problem matching in CA graduating from top school. One of my cousins graduated from Baylor and matched into USC radiology program. He said that as long as you are good, it's not that hard.