cali vs dc programs (rank list)

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

yoman

Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2004
Messages
24
Reaction score
0
How would you all rank this list if I want to do a fellowship in GI or Cards? What about strength and reputation of the programs listed? All your help is greatly appreciated.

George Washington Univ, Georgetown Univ, UCLA-VA, UCLA- olive view, Cali pacific, USC, Univ of Florida

Members don't see this ad.
 
Originally posted by yoman
How would you all rank this list if I want to do a fellowship in GI or Cards? What about strength and reputation of the programs listed? All your help is greatly appreciated.

George Washington Univ, Georgetown Univ, UCLA-VA, UCLA- olive view, Cali pacific, USC, Univ of Florida


As for cali programs:
UCLA-VA > olive view > calpacific > USC
 
thanks. How does GWU and Georgetown fit into that ranking list of cali schools?
 
Members don't see this ad :)
gotta give props to ucla-va.
they let you do tons of research during residency.
this research time and the pubs from it really pump up the applications.
 
USC has published a lot of research too and is on the NIH research fund rank list in comparison to some of the other places listed. Why not rank USC higher over California Pacific and UCLA-Olive View? Georgetown is on that list too.
 
Originally posted by yoman
Why not rank USC higher over California Pacific and UCLA-Olive View? Georgetown is on that list too.

USC is a mixed bag. You have 50 or so residents. Big program, lots of autonomy, but i think its reputation is poor. You don't see their residents doing well in post-residency placement. But in the end, your residency is what you make of it. Personally I wouldn't want to be at that hospital...even as a fellow.
 
usc considers itself the only other "academic" university program in los angeles.

from my visit, it seems that do decent in fellowship placement. they quote over 50% going into fellowships. but they don't give an exact listing. for gi, i know they matched a couple at their own program and i think one outside.

it's a large program, lots of autonomy, lots of scut. i'm sure their residents are well-trained. but i agree that their hospital seems a bit crazy.
 
I interviewed at USC, and I am putting them down as last on my ROL, just so I don't need to scramble. Other reason is that its close to home. USC has a not-so-great rep in the academia, eventhough its research is quite superior - a strange combination. The hospital itself is poor, even for a county program. But I think the clinical training is top-notch as you will see everything, and a little more. They do okay on felloships, but not too many matched into top tier programs, although a few did manage to get into UCLA Cards and GI from what I remember. But given their resident pool is 50, that ratio is actually dismal compared to other programs I visited.
 
GWU and GT both have struggling IM programs (both financially and academically). I don't know anything about the Cali programs, but I have a family friend who I'm pretty sure was at UF and ended up getting into Columbia for GI, and Wash U is not in DC but has a stronger rep then most of those programs as well. GW's struggling financial/academic problems were conveyed to me by my interviewer who completely dissed her school for some reason, and GT's financial problems are well known in the academic community since they were bought out by Medstar (a private corporation) who now makes most of the major decisions for them (eg deciding to shut down interventional cath at the main GT hospital causing most of the cards faculty to go away and forcing anyone who rules in for an MI to be transferred to WHC was apparently a decision made by medstar over the complaints of faculty). I don't think that GT has fully recovered from it's financial difficulties either, apparently, all of the hospitals in DC are having problems.
 
I agree with the above, but GT still puts their residents into competitive fellowships quite well and has the national reputation. I dont know too much about how GW does. Its still a big mystery in terms of GI and Cards. So, how would you rank them against the cali schools to get into those competitive fellowships and reputation/strength of program?

UCLA-VA > GT > UCLA-Olive View > Cali pacific > USC > GW > U florida ???

Any input would be greatly appreciated!:D
 
This is far from an apples and apples comparison, right? I mean, a lot of the reason to go to the California programs is, uh, California, right? I just mean, most of my friends who are Cali bound do so as much for the academics/training as the state itself. If you want to be in California, there's no program strong enough to bring you across a conitinent.

GT fellowship is MUCH stronger than GW. If you want to go into primary care, GW=GT. If you want fellowship, GT>GW despite the old hospital.

But, if you're not married to DC, excellent programs are everywhere on the East Coast.
 
Cali rocks! It's the best state in the country.
 
Thanks ICUB, but what if location does not matter. The only criteria is just the best chance of getting a competitive fellowship, strength and reputation of program. Your right GT>>> GW for fellowships. How does GT compare to the other cali schools listed if location is not an issue based upon getting a competitive fellowship, strength and reputation of program? Any help from anyone is appreciated :D

UCLA-VA > GT > UCLA-Olive View > Cali pacific > USC > GW > U florida ????
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Actually, the best program by far on your list is U. of Florida. You'll have your best fellowship opportunities from there. The rest of the programs on your list aren't very strong for internal medicine. USC would give you a good shot, but you'd have to work hard there, harder than you would at another program, to make it. If location is your motivation, though, go with USC v. GW.
 
Thanks ID4me, but I think U of Florida is nowhere in comparison to those programs. It just came off of a 2 year probation for violation of the 80 hour work week. As for USC, I agree that its so malignant there. Way too hard during the intern year. What I'm worried about is that GT might be shrinking its program and decreasing the number of fellowships due to their financial situation and GW expanding their program with the new hospital and all. I'm still up in the air in how to rank these programs without considering location. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. :confused:
 
None of those are powerhouses in getting you into competitive fellowships. GT might still have the national rep, but its future is uncertain. GW and USC are relatively stable but their fellowship placements are mediocre. I have heard good things about UCLA-VA though (from Scutwork.com) and seems like it might be a better choice for you among the Cali programs. U of Florida is not that bad, although you seem to have made up your mind about it.
 
Univ of Florida isnt bad at all, but I dont think its as comparable for GI and Cards fellowships as the DC and cali schools listed. then again, I could be wrong. Also, U of Florida had so many FMGs there. I think around 75% of intern class were FMGs. I agree that GT future is uncertain, but will still remain a strong program. Who knows how it will compare to GW 3-4 years from now. How do GW and GT compare to UCLA-Olive View and UCLA-VA?:rolleyes:
 
Just a disclaimer - I'm not from Florida, I didn't go to school at U of F, and I'm not a resident there - but I did interview there last year.

I think it's a better program than people want to give it credit for. A lot of the FMGs you speak of are in the intern class, I think primarily because a lot of American grads like yourself got scared by the probation thing.

http://www.medicine.ufl.edu/train/roster.shtml

Probation didn't mean much, and they've fixed their work hours. I don't see anybody running from Hopkins and Yale while they're on probation..... Shands is a respected tertiary hospital in the region and I met some great faculty there. Between working at Shands, the VA across the street, and the county hospital in Jacksonville, it provides the most comprehensive education of all the programs you list. For me the biggest negative was living in a smaller college town, but otherwise the medical center was solid. It's by no means a superstar program, even regionally, but it's still a quality residency. None of the other programs you list carry the same comprehensive quality, and aside from GW and USC, carry no national name recognition. In terms of fellowships, here's UF's list:

http://www.medicine.ufl.edu/train/grad_destinations.htm

I don't have the other schools' lists to compare to, but UF grads appear to be getting some quality fellowships, albeit primarily in the region. Georgetown is in serious trouble, it's only on the way down. I think you should re-evaluate U. of Florida in relation to the other programs you have listed before you make your final choice. Good luck whatever you decide.
 
Thanks ID4me. I appreciate the comments. Does anyone have an opinion on UCLA- Olive View Medical center. I was looking over their website and it seems to be a strong program, but dont know in terms of fellowship placements?

As for Georgetown, GW will surpass GT in the future if GT does not build a new state of the art hospital. But 3 years from now, how will fellowship placement change between the two of them?? Any comments about GT or UCLA-olive view is greatly appreciated :D
 
Georgetown's fellowship placement is much stronger than that UF list. I'm sure a lot is limited by the fact that the UF graduates choose to stay in southern regions where bigger name programs are less represented, but still, outside of UF, they weren't placing many people. I don't know what GT's future is, but their fellowship placement for this year's 2nd year class was also as good as year's past - I heard Yale (GI), Hopkins (renal), Brown (renal), MGH (for something).
 
Thanks Mav. Has anyone heard of what GW's fellowship matches are this year? Any opinion on UCLA-Olive View's program? Thanks
 
GT is going down the same trajectory as Hoya basketball. It is hanging from one skinny thread-- it's reputation. UCLA-Olive View has impressive residents based on fellow classmates who have interviewed. Consider it a Division II powerhouse. UF? Thanks for the info on that. I, too, have reconsidered my impressions of that program. GW? What can say-- it ain't no UCLA-VA but its potential is enough to pull an upset over USC. I still say secound round loss. You gotta go with the VA-- I love it, baby! March Madness (3/18) just around the corner!!!
 
Originally posted by yomanjr
What can say-- it ain't no UCLA-VA but its potential is enough to pull an upset over USC. I still say secound round loss. You gotta go with the VA-- I love it, baby! March Madness (3/18) just around the corner!!!

UCLA-VA is definetly a well hidden secret in LA. The program rocks in many ways. The faculty are super friendly, the residents are happy, and their fellowship placement is outstanding.

Im not so sure about Olive-View though. Many classmates had thought it was a good program, but i think it pales in comparison to the UCLA-VA. IT does have a great spanish speaking population though, and the residents do come out competant.
 
Thanks shebangs.. does anyone know how GWU compares to UCLA-Olive view? Which would you rank higher if interested in fellowship? Thanks
 
You ask a lot of questions yoman but I guess you're getting nervous about your final rank list. The Colonials cannot keep up with the Olive View Ferrets. Unless you want to practice in the DC area over Cali, I suggest taking the HOV to the OV.
 
Originally posted by yoman
Thanks shebangs.. does anyone know how GWU compares to UCLA-Olive view? Which would you rank higher if interested in fellowship? Thanks

I can tell you have lots of uncertainty with your decision making. In the end, you have to question yourself whether or not you will be happy at that particular residency program. To be honest, I dont know if GWU is better than UCLA-Oliveview in attaining fellowship. If that is your criteria for making your selection, then I would find out about potential research mentors, fellowship placement of current housestaff, and that kind of stuff.

Go with your gut feeling in this late hour. Good luck.
 
If I was interested in Cardiology I would choose WHC over GT or GW. The residents are exposed to one of the busiest cardiac cath labs in the country and the Cardiology department ranked (I believe) 13th in the latest US News and World report.


I don't think they even do hearts (or caths?) anymore at GT!

What happened to my alma mater?


Urolap
 
If you love socal so much, why not consider ucsd? SD is nice, plus 2 hr drive to LA, plus rep better than cal pacific and usc and will bring you to fellowships.

ICUD is right. Most people apply to cali because of cali, giving up good residencies. One match at a top-notch residency outside cali but will only match 2nd tier in cali. So unless the state of cali itself is your first priority, I wouldnt bother with it at all, and would rather do residency at a top notch east coast residency. You should clearly priortize cali or reputation, because most likely you wont get both, based on competitiveness of matching at cali for cali. One probably will end up matching in the most reputed residency in the DC area/east coast or one of the least in cali. Prioritize.
 
Thanks to everyone for helping me. The last response really made my decision easy. I went with where my heart told me I would be happy and still have a quality residency experience and fellowship potential. Thanks everyone!!:clap:
 
Mine? Or Pheo's? I didnt think I would make such a difference in someone's life over the internet.
 
yours of course, cbc. I went with reputation and knowing where I would be happy.
 
I am so glad I was helpful.

One who can match at ucd or ucsd probably has an equal chance of matching at washu or Duke, and vice versa. Most californians are willing to sacrifice the reputation to do medical training at cali. Of course, doing residency in cali will increase chances of fellowships in cali too; it's a good investment for californians.

Are you willing to take cal pacific over northwestern, or ucsd over duke, or usc over mayo? You've got to be ready to give up more reputed programs if you want to do cali residencies. I agreed with ICUD's point in that, no cali residencies is good enough based on their competitiveness to aim for them unless the state of cali is your #1 priority. If state of cali is not your #1 choice, you'd be much better off doing residency at more reputed institutions elsewhere. I'm glad I helped you.

If you're a rare species at the top of the food chain though, it wouldnt matter, because you'd match at ucsf and you'll get both reputation and cali. Like I said, rare.
 
Thanks cbc. Im from cali and it was such a hard decision whether to rank GW/GT higher than some of the UCLA affiliates schools. I gotta say that I love Cali, but I know how hard it is to get a GI/cards fellowship there if the residents are already very competitive as they are there. Everyone wants to go to cali and it makes it even harder if I went to cali to stay there for fellowships based upon the sheer number of quality applicants per fellowships spots available in cali. If I went to a university based program in the east coast, it would allow me a greater probability to get a competitive fellowship across the country than going to a tier II affiliate cali program. I will take my chances.
 
Yeah, everyone has different priorities apparently. I think ICUD's post also brought up another intriguing question: there are so many great programs stretched along the border of the Atlantic ocean, so why are you limiting yourself to the DC programs? We cant see why you are attached to DC if your family is not there. For example, if my family is in the east coast and I plan to stay west, why would I wish restrict myself to just to Portland? What is the location difference between UCD, OHSU, and UWash? I for one would give myself a shot at UWash if I plan to stay around Oregon.


Originally posted by yoman
Thanks cbc. Im from cali and it was such a hard decision whether to rank GW/GT higher than some of the UCLA affiliates schools. I gotta say that I love Cali, but I know how hard it is to get a GI/cards fellowship there if the residents are already very competitive as they are there. Everyone wants to go to cali and it makes it even harder if I went to cali to stay there for fellowships based upon the sheer number of quality applicants per fellowships spots available in cali. If I went to a university based program in the east coast, it would allow me a greater probability to get a competitive fellowship across the country than going to a tier II affiliate cali program. I will take my chances.
 
Top