California Northstate University College of Medicine(CNUCOM): Avoid this school at all costs!

[Go2Mars]

The LCME has recently denied CNUCOM full accreditation status and instead placed them on "provisional, on probation" status. I have been researching this school for months after multiple students and hundreds of Elk Grove residents were affected by this institution. I am posting this for the safety of incoming premeds, current medical students, and parents who were looking into CNUCOM, their BS/MD program, and their post-bacc program. I will be posting 11 different reasons with news reports and evidence to explain why California Northstate University College of Medicine (CNUCOM) is a terrible corporation and must be avoided at all costs. Its for-profit model was discussed by @Goro, @Med Ed, and @gyngyn, and notable SDN users back in 2017-2019. Many people (including me) didn't take them seriously, and now CNU students and parents are paying the price. In recent years, CNUCOM has functioned more like a corrupt corporation rather than a medical school. LCME denied full accreditation status for CNUCOM following the March 2021 site visit and placed them on a probation status. Here is the original SDN article: LCME Denies Full Accreditation for CNUCOM.

1) Probation Status: CNUCOM was placed on "Provisional, on probation" status by the LCME following their March 2021 site visit. This is extremely concerning as according to the LCME website and an article from the Student Doctor Network: "A school placed on probation is subject to accreditation withdrawal if they do not address their compliance issues within 24 months". This means that CNUCOM has until March 2024 to fix these issues or they lose their accreditation and possibly shut down: LCME Places CNUCOM On Probation and https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article258980943.html

2) CNU Hospital Issue: CNUCOM attempted to push out small, local businesses to build a hospital without any warning before and during the COVID-19 pandemic. This was done without any transparency between CNU and the residents of Elk Grove. The majority of the Elk Grove residents spoke up and protested against CNU. This is one of the first times, in recent years, that an entire city despises a medical school and its administration. Fortunately, the Elk Grove Planning Commission denied the project: Elk Grove Shopping Center Tenants Caught Off Guard by CNU Hospital Project and Public shares feedback on proposed hospital’s environmental report

3) I have no words for this one: A CNUCOM Associate Dean entered into a city council meeting disguised as an Elk Grove private citizen to defend the CNU hospital. The disguise was intentional, and she never said her affiliation to the school. YES, I AM SERIOUS WHEN I SAY THE WORD "DISGUISED"..... Multiple Elk Grove and Sacramento residents spoke out against this: Elk Grove Laguna NewsAll The Latest News In Elk GroveProposed Elk Grove hospital faces more controversy

4)Shady Progams: CNUCOM offered unapproved programs to their undergraduate students. They were cited by the BPPE and the state of California. This is another example of shady activity and the for-profit model in action from this institution: CA issues citations against school planning to open hospital in Elk Grove

5) Racism Topic: During the Black Lives Matter protests and issues surrounding racism in healthcare, CNUCOM took a "neutral" stance and refused to speak on the issues of racism and discrimination in medicine. Multiple medical students spoke up in defiance of their administration. This was in stark contrast to other medical schools in the United States: https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/education/article243314761.html
If the administration themselves is refusing to speak up about racism, it trickles down into the curriculum. When taking a look at the demographics of the school and the courses offered, there is a severe lack of underrepresented students and courses that educate students on racism in healthcare. CNUCOM students had to speak up themselves against their own institution during the George Floyd protests. For example, CNUCOM and CNUCOP students created their own statement on racism in medicine in defiance of the medical school administration. To this day, the CNU administration has not rescinded their neutrality policy.

6) Environmental Disregard: There are multiple reports from environmental agencies that the CNU hospital plan has multiple discrepancies. CNUCOM intentionally disregarded the fact that the hospital was next to a wildlife reserve, would cause harm to endangered species, and that the hospital was located on top of a floodplain: Ensuring Elk Grove Remains A Welcoming Place To Call Home

7) BS/MD Scandal and Post-Bacc Issue: CNUCOM is facing a major scandal and lawsuit after breaking a contract and rejecting multiple BS/MD students who met the MCAT and GPA requirement needed to matriculate from the undergraduate program to the college of medicine. This issue was discussed on other threads last week, so I am moving it over to this thread. Their "undergrad" was never a real institution, but rather a feeder school to help funnel money to the medical school for a few years. CNUCOM also has made it a point to only interview the "BS/MD" students later in the cycle (March-June) when most of the school's spots are already filled up. In addition, a very small portion of post-baccalaureate students were accepted into CNUCOM. Here is an article on the BS/MD lawsuit: https://www.bizjournals.com/sacrame...ifornia-northstate-students-allege-fraud.html

8) Financial/Fraud/Lawsuits: For-profit corporations tend to prioritize money over their students. The finances of CNUCOM are still unknown, and LCME needs to investigate before giving this corporation full accreditation. This was clear in specific instances, such as refusing to offer federal loans and not providing proper financial aid to students. There are no direct mechanisms to minimize the impact of tuition, fees, and supplies, and the school has repeatedly told students that they will continue to not offer federal loans in the coming decade. There are many other instances such as this lawsuit where they were sued for fraud and unjust enrichment: Lawsuit filed against California Northstate University offers glimpse into for-profit school’s finances and lawsuit about 2 women who were unfairly terminated and harassed (http://www.elkgrovenews.net/2019/03/california-northstate-univ-sued-by.html)

9) Diversity Issues: CNUCOM does not have programs or partnerships to encourage more applicants from diverse backgrounds, and there are no scholarships offered to any applicants. Financial aid and federal loans are still being denied to any CNUCOM student and outside applicant. No programs were used to achieve diversity among qualified applicants. When looking at the recent demographic data of the previous 4 classes, less than three percent of students were Hispanic or African American in the previous five CNUCOM classes. In addition, there have been significantly more men than women in the recent CNUCOM class. For example, the class of 2024 had 61 men compared to 40 women. This is in stark contrast to other California medical schools that are accepting equal rates of men and women. BUT YOU ALL NEED TO HEAR THIS: To combat this issue, CNUCOM promoted an African African professor this past month from "admission coordinator" to "director of student diversity and inclusion pipeline development” in order to appeal to the LCME committee...

10) Lack of Recognition from Other CA M.D. Schools: The CA M.D. schools (UCSF, UCLA, Stanford, Loma Linda, Kaiser, etc) seemed to have either intentionally or unintentionally excluded CNUCOM from joint statements such as the "Joint Statement from the Admissions Deans of California Medical Schools" during the COVID-19 pandemic regarding MCAT testing and deadlines. Considering Kaiser was created 4 years after CNUCOM yet they were included in joint statements with the established CA M.D. schools, this is an interesting discovery that should be investigated more: https://medschool.kp.org/content/dam/kp/som/homepage/admissions/California Admissions Deans Joint Statement.pdf

11) Many Residency Program Directors Look at a Medical School's Accreditation Status: According to the 2021 NRMP Program Director Survey, medical school accreditation status is a factor that many program directors consider. Feel free to look at pages such as 21,32,186 etc…. In the specialties of plastic surgery, anesthesiology, diagnostic radiology, psychiatry, child neurology, transitional year, and family medicine, around 46%-62% of residency program directors use medical school accreditation status as a factor when deciding who to interview. The average for all specialities is that 44% of residency program directors use medical school accreditation status as a factor in choosing who to interview (page 10). If you have the chance, it is best to avoid a medical school that currently has a "probation" status such as CNUCOM: https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/2021-PD-Survey-Report-for-WWW.pdf

CNUCOM is trying to play the system and this is something the SDN and the medical community needs to be aware of. This is for the education and knowledge of the medical community and future parents/students.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Goro]

RE #8: Having a token Black person in Administration isn't going to impress LCME one bit. I'll wager they will get an accreditation warning for the lack of diversity in their student body. Even COCA cares about this; they've pestered my school about multiple times, and we've taken steps to fix it (which is not easy for a DO school to do, either).

 

[KnightDoc]

Nice post, but you're basically preaching to the choir here. Since you referenced the threads from 2017-19, you know that the foundation for everything you are detailing now was laid back then. Their target audience doesn't care. As @Goro pointed out, maybe LCME will care, and maybe they will play the system and drag the process out, but ultimately they will do what they need to do to survive, and life will go on.

Bottom line, now that people are being screwed over, they are waking up to the abuses inherent in a for-profit model. Of course diversity sucks -- they are for profit, and many URMs do not have hundreds of thousands of dollars to pay for an education. This didn't bother ORMs and their wealthy parents, who were using the school as a means to a US-MD end, until the school used a technicality in their BS/MD matriculation agreement to deny them entry into the MD program. They went to bed with dogs and woke up with fleas, and now they are complaining.

The best thing that could happen, long term, would be for LCME to shut this school down, but when I suggested this in the past, people were howling about how THAT would screw over students who didn't have any other US-MD options anyway. Now what's going to happen? They'll increase tuition even more to fund a few token scholarships for URMs to get the LCME off their back, and they'll make some concessions to the community to get their hospital built, and everyone will be happy?

The for-profit model is just not in the best interest of students or consistent with the what the goals of an institution serving the public good should be. Of course, investors and anyone who might benefit from increased access to something in short supply will disagree, but your post is evidence of what happens when one makes deals with the devil.

An ethical school would never do what these guys are doing. On the other hand, most people understand who they are dealing with when they decide to do business with a for-profit MD school. So, how much pity are we supposed to muster for people who jumped in with eyes wide open because they thought it was in their interest to do so, without regard to how a for-profit operates, for example, by trying to ram a teaching hospital through a zoning process, or by excluding URMs from their opportunity?

And what makes you think the 2021-22 version of the people who ignored the warnings years ago are going to heed it now if they feel CNU is their best opportunity to achieve their goals???????? People who can do better will, and people who can't will hold their noses and hope for the best rather than submitting to another cycle. Without access to federal loans, without meaningful financial aid, and without a real commitment to diversity. After all, their primary goal is to generate a return on investment for their owners. Producing doctors is only a means to that end. What else is new???

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Regarding #8, is it possible they are purely going by stats and finding enough ORMs who are willing to pay the full price given that they don't encourage loans? I remember reading that in the past that you may not be get loans since they don't provide required documents.

 

[Go2Mars]

Regarding #8, is it possible they are purely going by stats and finding enough ORMs who are willing to pay the full price given that they don't encourage loans? I remember reading that in the past that you may not be get loans since they don't provide required documents.

They could be going by stats and finding ORMs who are more well off. I won't argue with that point you made. My issue though is that by not offering any federal loans or financial aid, many disadvantaged and minority students who may get accepted to CNUCOM cannot even attend or have the option to attend (since private loans are terrible in most accounts). There is an inherent inequality in their administration's policies, and CNUCOM is refusing to ever provide financial aid to their students even though they supposedly have $750 million for their supposed hospital? Also, their funding scheme or financial means makes no sense either. How did they have enough money to fund that hypothetical hospital? And how did they create a medical school so quickly in 2015 and not receive full accreditation after 6 consecutive years. There are so many things that do not add up to me

 

[Go2Mars]

Nice post, but you're basically preaching to the choir here. Since you referenced the threads from 2017-19, you know that the foundation for everything you are detailing now was laid back then. Their target audience doesn't care. As @Goro pointed out, maybe LCME will care, and maybe they will play the system and drag the process out, but ultimately they will do what they need to do to survive, and life will go on.

Bottom line, now that people are being screwed over, they are waking up to the abuses inherent in a for-profit model. Of course diversity sucks -- they are for profit, and many URMs do not have hundreds of thousands of dollars to pay for an education. This didn't bother ORMs and their wealthy parents, who were using the school as a means to a US-MD end, until the school used a technicality in their BS/MD matriculation agreement to deny them entry into the MD program. They went to bed with dogs and woke up with fleas, and now they are complaining.

The best thing that could happen, long term, would be for LCME to shut this school down, but when I suggested this in the past, people were howling about how THAT would screw over students who didn't have any other US-MD options anyway. Now what's going to happen? They'll increase tuition even more to fund a few token scholarships for URMs to get the LCME off their back, and they'll make some concessions to the community to get their hospital built, and everyone will be happy?

The for-profit model is just not in the best interest of students or consistent with the what the goals of an institution serving the public good should be. Of course, investors and anyone who might benefit from increased access to something in short supply will disagree, but your post is evidence of what happens when one makes deals with the devil.

An ethical school would never do what these guys are doing. On the other hand, most people understand who they are dealing with when they decide to do business with a for-profit MD school. So, how much pity are we supposed to muster for people who jumped in with eyes wide open because they thought it was in their interest to do so, without regard to how a for-profit operates, for example, by trying to ram a teaching hospital through a zoning process, or by excluding URMs from their opportunity?

And what makes you think the 2021-22 version of the people who ignored the warnings years ago are going to heed it now if they feel CNU is their best opportunity to achieve their goals???????? People who can do better will, and people who can't will hold their noses and hope for the best rather than submitting to another cycle. Without access to federal loans, without meaningful financial aid, and without a real commitment to diversity. After all, their primary goal is to generate a return on investment for their owners. Producing doctors is only a means to that end. What else is new???

I understand what you are saying about not having pity for the students/parents and that people's minds won't be changed, but my whole point is at least to educate and maybe change some minds if any student does come across this thread. My post is meant to add new arguments about the hospital controversy, racial component, and more scandals to piggy-back off of @Goro a few years back. This thread may assist some students, and that is enough for me. Just to help out 5-10 students to avoid this school and attend a better institution would make me relieved.

I do think we can pity the students who made "deals with the devil" since medical for-profit schools seem to be popping up everywhere (RVU, CHSU, Burrell, ICOM). It is an unfortunate reality that many individuals will fall for or not even realize. I am sure you and the other SDN users have more experience than others, so hopefully, you can understand why I wanted to create an updated post with the new issues (CNU hospital, BS/MD scam, diversity issue, racism, etc)

 

[KnightDoc]

I understand what you are saying about not having pity for the students/parents and that people's minds won't be changed, but my whole point is at least to educate and maybe change some minds if any student does come across this thread. My post is meant to add new arguments about the hospital controversy, racial component, and more scandals to piggy-back off of @Goro a few years back. This thread may assist some students, and that is enough for me. Just to help out 5-10 students to avoid this school and attend a better institution would make me relieved.

I do think we can pity the students who made "deals with the devil" since medical for-profit schools seem to be popping up everywhere (RVU, CHSU, Burrell, ICOM). It is an unfortunate reality that many individuals will fall for or not even realize. I am sure you and the other SDN users have more experience than others, so hopefully, you can understand why I wanted to create an updated post with the new issues (CNU hospital, BS/MD scam, diversity issue, racism, etc)

Don't get me wrong -- I totally understand your point. MY point is that it will fall on deaf ears, just like it did when others made it 3 years ago. Most people get upset when bad stuff happens to them, but can live with it when bad things happen to other people. Everything you are saying about the evils of CNU were there, in plain sight, for everyone to see, from the very beginning.

Students and the school want a teaching hospital. Nobody cared about the community until wealthy ORMs discovered that their BS/MD guarantee was a mirage. The same with access to scholarships for minorities or those less well off, which would take a seat away from a wealthy ORM's child on a one-for-one basis for every person who would be enrolled with such a benefit. NOW that the wealthy ORMs are being treated poorly, it's all of a sudden important to bring all of the shortcomings of the school and the business model to everyone's attention.

This is great. My point is that the 2021-22 version of the people who benefit from a school that lacks diversity, doesn't honor its commitment to its BS/MD program, and caters to full pay families who don't need federal loans will care as much about these things as their counterparts did a few years ago (with the exception of the BS/MD issue, which hadn't yet manifested itself).

Believe me, no ORM parent of a rising college senior who didn't get into a BS/MD program 3 years ago is going to avoid CNU because of anything being exposed here. And, no one who stands to benefit from the creation of the teaching hospital is going to care about how the community is being exploited to make it happen.

So, post away. Most people on SDN are already convinced and were never going near CNU. On the other hand, its target audience is hardly going to be dissuaded by anything said here, and they will have no problem filling every class as long as they are allowed to operate.

 

[KnightDoc]

Anyone have a link to the thread discussing the BS/MD issue?

There isn't one. OP made a reference to it on an old CNU thread that you can easily find by looking at all 6 of his posts. He then moved the conversation here. There is no discussion beyond the allegation he made here (and there!).

 

[nicks9000]

Don't get me wrong -- I totally understand your point. MY point is that it will fall on deaf ears, just like it did when others made it 3 years ago. Most people get upset when bad stuff happens to them, but can live with it when bad things happen to other people. Everything you are saying about the evils of CNU were there, in plain sight, for everyone to see, from the very beginning.

Students and the school want a teaching hospital. Nobody cared about the community until wealthy ORMs discovered that their BS/MD guarantee was a mirage. The same with access to scholarships for minorities or those less well off, which would take a seat away from a wealthy ORM's child on a one-for-one basis for every person who would be enrolled with such a benefit. NOW that the wealthy ORMs are being f***ed over, it's all of a sudden important to bring all of the shortcomings of the school and the business model to everyone's attention.

This is great. My point is that the 2021-22 version of the people who benefit from a school that lacks diversity, doesn't honor its commitment to its BS/MD program, and caters to full pay families who don't need federal loans will care as much about these things as their counterparts did a few years ago (with the exception of the BS/MD issue, which hadn't yet manifested itself).

Believe me, no ORM parent of a rising college senior who didn't get into a BS/MD program 3 years ago is going to avoid CNU because of anything being exposed here. And, no one who stands to benefit from the creation of the teaching hospital is going to care about how the community is being exploited to make it happen.

So, post away. Most people on SDN are already convinced and were never going near CNU. On the other hand, its target audience is hardly going to be dissuaded by anything said here, and they will have no problem filling every class as long as they are allowed to operate.

Why are you so fixated on the ORMs that attend CNUSOM? Because it's not just ORMs that attend CNUSOM. Your point is that people who are wealthy enough to attend CNUSOM don't care about the stuff OP posted, but you could have just said "wealthy" and left it at that, but instead you've felt compelled throughout this thread to single out "wealthy ORMs" in particular. What is an "ORM parent"? An overrepresented-in-medicine parent? Just say Asian if that's what you mean; it's clearer.

I've noticed your "fixation" on ORMs not just in this thread but in other threads on this forum as well where you have a habit of insisting whites are "technically" URMs.

 

[Go2Mars]

Anyone have a link to the thread discussing the BS/MD issue?

For anyone who wants further information regarding the BS/MD scandal, I can provide information from my friends who are current CNU BS/MD students. You can PM me, but everyone is being careful with going public about information. So far, 22 CNU BS/MD students received the 510+ and 3.5+ GPA and only 4 of them were accepted. That itself is an issue on its own. The reason you have not seen an article published is that due to legal issues, everyone is staying mainly quiet. Here is the thread that I originally made the post in: Besides CNU, are there any other bad US MD schools?

 

[Go2Mars]

Anyone have a link to the thread discussing the BS/MD issue?

There isn't one. OP made a reference to it on an old CNU thread that you can easily find by looking at all 6 of his posts. He then moved the conversation here. There is no discussion beyond the allegation he made here (and there!).

The class-action lawsuit is now public record. Multiple CNU students have sent me the article, and more journals will be publishing in the coming weeks: https://www.bizjournals.com/sacrame...ifornia-northstate-students-allege-fraud.html
If you can't view the article due to subscription payment, here are 6 quick details about the lawsuit and article:

1) The lawsuit is seeking class-action status to cover additional students who may have been rejected

2) For years, CNU stated in its marketing materials and student resources that BS/MD students would have a "reserved" spot in CNUCOM. From 2018-2020, every single BS/MD student with a 3.5+ GPA and 510+ MCAT got accepted. However, everything changed in 2021 due to a bait-and-switch scam technique

3) The plaintiff's lawyers are claiming that after the BPPE and the state of California fined CNU for its "unapproved" BS/MD program, CNUCOM seemed to have changed course and immediately rejected three BS/MD students

4) CNU is treating the Plaintiffs like third-party applicants rather than the BS/MD students that they are

5) CNU "never intended to comply with its sales or marketing promises"

6) Lawsuit claims that students "were offered a time-saving scam, and now seemingly have lost years of their lives"

 

[Goro]

Awaiting replies from the CNUsplainers.

According to MSAR, they admitted no BS/MD students as of the last application cycle.

Would love to hear what the wise @gyngyn and @Med Ed have to say.

 

[nemayaya]

Awaiting replies from the CNUsplainers.

According to MSAR, they admitted no BS/MD students as of the last application cycle.

Would love to hear what the wise @gyngyn and @Med Ed have to say.

Hi Goro!

I understand the arguments made against CNU, but I also want to keep an open mind and ask at what point would the biases lift? What evidence would need to happen? From doing my own research, the school is pending full LCME accreditation in the fall, is getting its own hospital for sure now (Sacramento Kings, City of Sacramento and California Northstate University Announce Natomas Redevelopment Plans | Sacramento Kings (nba.com)) , match lists are getting more competitive over the years, and private loans can have better interest rates than federal loans. Students there say they are enjoying it there too.

Sure there's the skepticism behind the for-profit model (I don't really understand how this affects students though, will need some education here), or the potential diversity issues. Beyond this, I want to know: if a student gets accepted for an MD here, is it okay now to "take the A and run with it" given the trajectory of the school?

Thanks!

 

[Goro]

Hi Goro!

I understand the arguments made against CNU, but I also want to keep an open mind and ask at what point would the biases lift? What evidence would need to happen? From doing my own research, the school is pending full LCME accreditation in the fall, is getting its own hospital for sure now (Sacramento Kings, City of Sacramento and California Northstate University Announce Natomas Redevelopment Plans | Sacramento Kings (nba.com)) , match lists are getting more competitive over the years, and private loans have better interest rates than federal loans. Students there say they are enjoying it there too.

Sure there's the skepticism behind the for-profit model (I don't really understand how this affects students though, will need some education here), or the potential diversity issues. Beyond this, I want to know: if a student gets accepted for an MD here, is it okay now to "take the A and run with it" given the trajectory of the school?

Thanks!

When they start thinking more of thier students than their shareholders, then they could come off the Bad Boy list.

They still don't have a dedication to diversity either, I see. There are only 3 Hispanic students in the Class of 2020, and 0 African Americans. This for a state where 6% of the state is Black and 14% Hispanic.

 

[nemayaya]

When they start thinking more of thier students than their shareholders, then they could come off the Bad Boy list.

They still don't have a dedication to diversity either, I see. There are only 3 Hispanic students in the Class of 2020, and 0 African Americans. This for a state where 6% of the state is Black and 14% Hispanic.

Thanks so much for the insight. I think it's wonderful how much you, gyngyn, etc. look out for the students and care for equal representation.

After lots of debate, I think I will be taking the A here and running with it. I feel nervous about having to explain otherwise (and I don't want to wait another year). I hope that the school administration will improve over time as more attention comes to the school, esp the negative feedback. I have to admit I have a lot of anxiety, but well, it's an MD and my dream is to be a physician in the end. I wish I could just go to med school without worries after trying so hard for so long

 

[Goro]

Thanks so much for the insight. I think it's wonderful how much you, gyngyn, etc. look out for the students and care for equal representation.

After lots of debate, I think I will be taking the A here and running with it. I feel nervous about having to explain otherwise (and I don't want to wait another year). I hope that the school administration will improve over time as more attention comes to the school, esp the negative feedback. I have to admit I have a lot of anxiety, but well, it's an MD and my dream is to be a physician in the end. I wish I could just go to med school without worries after trying so hard for so long

Don't look back but do try and make it a better place

 

[pinkpineapple0]

Hello! I am applying to California Northstate University. I am a URM, residency in CA. I was doing more research into the school when I found this thread. Just to clarify, I can't get federal financial student loans if I went there? I guess if that is the case I can't apply

 

[gyngyn]

Hello! I am applying to California Northstate University. I am a URM, residency in CA and my MCAT is in their range so that is why it was on my list. I was doing more research into the school when I found this thread. Just to clarify, I can't get federal financial student loans if I went there? I guess if that is the case I can't apply

None of their medical students have had the option of federal loans or payback mechanisms since the entity opened.
This, despite the fact that even the inaugural med school class could have had this option.
Remember, even Caribbean schools (with which this entity is associated) offer federal loans.

 

[KnightDoc]

Hello! I am applying to California Northstate University. I am a URM, residency in CA and my MCAT is in their range so that is why it was on my list. I was doing more research into the school when I found this thread. Just to clarify, I can't get federal financial student loans if I went there? I guess if that is the case I can't apply

They do arrange for private loans, so that's not necessarily a reason not to apply. OTOH, if you do a little deeper dive, you'll discover they are not as friendly to URMs as many other schools, and, as you can tell by the title of the thread, there are all kinds of issues with this school. You really won't be missing much by focusing your attention elsewhere.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

None of their medical students have had the option of federal loans or payback mechanisms since the entity opened.
This, despite the fact that even the inaugural med school class could have had this option.
Remember, even Caribbean schools (with which this entity is associated) offer federal loans.

School is meant for rich ORMs from CA who can't get into any CA schools.

 

[gyngyn]

School is meant for rich ORMs from CA who can't get into any CA schools.

Your post caused me look for data.
Only 5/101 matriculants were OOS last year.
They matriculated no African Americans and 3 who indicated that they were Hispanic. CA is 6% African American and 40% Hispanic.
They report 25% white and 60% Asian. CA is 37% non-hispanic white and 15% Asian.
The number that self-describe as disadvantaged has dropped in each of the last 4 years from 12 to 6 percent.

Although your statement is a generalization, it appears to supported by evidence.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Your post caused me look for data.
Only 5/101 matriculats were OOS last year.
They matriculated no African Americans and 3 who indicated that they were Hispanic.
They report 25% white and 60% Asian.
The number that self-describe as disadvantaged has dropped in each of the last 4 years from 12 to 6 percent.

Although your statement is a generalization, it appears to supported by evidence.

I don't look at the numbers but give statements based on personal observations and some may call it N=1 but but my N > 1

 

[KnightDoc]

Your post caused me look for data.
Only 5/101 matriculants were OOS last year.
They matriculated no African Americans and 3 who indicated that they were Hispanic. CA is 6% African American and 40% Hispanic.
They report 25% white and 60% Asian. CA is 37% non-hispanic white and 15% Asian.
The number that self-describe as disadvantaged has dropped in each of the last 4 years from 12 to 6 percent.

Although your statement is a generalization, it appears to supported by evidence.

I posted the same thing last year, after looking at the same data you did, and was vilified by some here for doing so!

This school definitely seems to provoke strong reactions, one way or the other!

 

[gyngyn]

I posted the same thing last year, after looking at the same data you did, and was vilified by some here for doing so!

This school definitely seems to provoke strong reactions, one way or the other!

Sometimes vilification is the price of sharing data.

 

[KnightDoc]

Sometimes vilification is the price of sharing data.

Plus, I came off with what was perceived by some to be an anti ORM edge, although I certainly meant nothing of the sort. I have come a long way in terms of packaging my messages since then!

 

[gyngyn]

I don't look at the numbers but give statements based on personal observations and some may call it N=1 but but my N >

When there is no data, we must rely on expert opinion. When there is no expert opinion, there is the tendency report our personal experience.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

When there is no data, we must rely on expert opinion. When there is no expert opinion, there is the tendency report our personal experience.

on forums like this everyone is an expert.

 

[gyngyn]

on forums like this everyone is an expert.

Experts can apply for a badge...

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Sometimes vilification is the price of sharing data.

Lot of times reaction is based on who is presenting the data like an adcom vs premed vs med student vs parents.

 

[Goro]

School is meant for rich ORMs from CA who can't get into any CA schools.

Or think they're too good for the west coast DO schools, despite two of them being in CA.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Or think they're too good for the west coast DO schools, despite two of them being in CA.

for lot of ORMs DO is a failure, including some of my family members despite my advice.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

@Go2Mars - Any update on BSMD matriculation issue. Last I heard, SOM didn't budge despite the lawsuit.

 

[gyngyn]

Or think they're too good for the west coast DO schools, despite two of them being in CA.

Apparently, it's three now.

 

[Go2Mars]

@Go2Mars - Any update on BSMD matriculation issue. Last I heard, SOM didn't budge despite the lawsuit.

I have been speaking to some of the CNU undergrad and medical students. Apparently, a few more BS/MD students have joined the lawsuit. Out of the 25 CNUCOM BS/MD students who met the 510+ MCAT and 3.5+ GPA requirements, only 13 of them were given acceptance letter. The other 12 students were rejected, so many students are reapplying or taking gap years. It is clear this is no longer a BS/MD program, and they are continuing to do false advertising.

The CNU College of Medicine is not budging at all and is instead claiming that the BS/MD students should understand that this was never a "combined BS/MD program" but rather just a "BS/MD pathway". This lawsuit will probably be dragged on for many months or even years. I would highly urge any applicants who come across this thread to avoid applying or attending this medical school for the vast reasons listed in the first post on this thread.

 

[Go2Mars]

Well everyone, this is the update lot of individuals have been waiting for. CNUCOM was apparently denied full accreditation status following the LCME March 2021 visit (Accredited U.S. Programs | LCME). I confirmed this after speaking to a current CNU "BS/MD" student, a current physician affiliated with CNUCOM, and 3 different CNUCOM medical students. They are all claiming the medical school is on "probation", but I am unable to confirm this through the LCME website. For reference, this medical school was established in 2015 and has still not received full accreditation status. I would appreciate to hear the insights of @Goro @Med Ed @gyngyn and other SDN users on what this means for the medical school and current CNU medical students if this story does turn out to be true.

In addition, the Combined BS/MD program is no longer advertised on their website as a "combined program" and it is now called a "pathway" program without a guaranteed seat in the medical school. It seems the citation by the Bureau for Private and Post-Secondary Education (BPPE) and the State of California is putting pressure on the medical school for offering their unapproved BS/MD program.

 

[gyngyn]

I'll keep my powder dry until the LCME decision is made public.

 

[Go2Mars]

I'll keep my powder dry until the LCME decision is made public.

The LCME decision was just made public today it seems by CNUCOM, and it is now confirmed that CNUCOM was denied full accreditation status following the LCME March 2021 site visit. This email was sent in the afternoon to the entire CNU College of Medicine student body, faculty, and staff regarding the LCME decision. "The LCME determined that COM was not 'satisfactory' in all areas... we are in the process of asking the LCME to reconsider their findings... we understand this uncertainty is unsettling".

 

[gyngyn]

The LCME decision was just made public today it seems by CNUCOM, and it is now confirmed that CNUCOM was denied full accreditation status following the LCME March 2021 site visit. This email was sent in the afternoon to the entire CNU College of Medicine student body, faculty, and staff regarding the LCME decision. "The LCME determined that COM was not 'satisfactory' in all areas... we are in the process of asking the LCME to reconsider their findings... we understand this uncertainty is unsettling".

Finally.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Gotta feel bad for current students, esp. ones that never visited this site and saw warnings. So are current students basically screwed for residency match?. Did they blow 150+k on a worthless piece of paper? Hopefully they file a class action lawsuit to get their money back. Unfortunately, time can never be returned.

 

[Goro]

The LCME decision was just made public today it seems by CNUCOM, and it is now confirmed that CNUCOM was denied full accreditation status following the LCME March 2021 site visit. This email was sent in the afternoon to the entire CNU College of Medicine student body, faculty, and staff regarding the LCME decision. "The LCME determined that COM was not 'satisfactory' in all areas... we are in the process of asking the LCME to reconsider their findings... we understand this uncertainty is unsettling".

Kids, you do not know how damning this is. It almost as it CNU had to work work for it.

I fee l very sorry for the CNU students. I take no pleasure in this news, in their regard.

 

[Goro]

Wise @gyngyn @Med Ed, @lord999 @Mr.Smile12 what happens now?

 

[wysdoc]

Wise @gyngyn @Med Ed, @lord999 @Mr.Smile12 what happens now?

(Disclaimer : I'm not on any accreditation committees and not an adcom)

What happens next depends on exactly what was found lacking during the evaluation, and whether the school is simply not advanced to full accreditation status, or with more major issues, whether they are having their status withdrawn or being placed on probation. The brief letter we saw a screenshot of doesn't really say.

Here's a good flowchart page of the process from the LCME site: Accreditation Process Overview

 

[Doctoscope]

Would AAMC/LCME/whatever help the current CNU students find places in different med schools? Or are they SOL?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

does lcme license Caribbean schools? If so how do they get licensed but not this one?

 

[wysdoc]

does lcme license Caribbean schools? If so how do they get licensed but not this one?

Only MD schools in the US and Canada.
DO schools have a different accrediting board

 

[Mr.Smile12]

(Disclaimer : I'm not on any accreditation committees and not an adcom)

What happens next depends on exactly what was found lacking during the evaluation, and whether the school is simply not advanced to full accreditation status, or with more major issues, whether they are having their status withdrawn or being placed on probation. The brief letter we saw a screenshot of doesn't really say.

Here's a good flowchart page of the process from the LCME site: Accreditation Process Overview

I also presume the administration (University and school) will do what it can to address the issues.

That said, this should not be a surprise to the administrators. The school should have prepared with a self study and mock site visit with experienced peers who do site visits but still not be assigned to CNU. It takes about 3 years to prepare for an accreditation visit, and this group knew it had to comply.

 

[Med Ed]

Wise @gyngyn @Med Ed, @lord999 @Mr.Smile12 what happens now?

We wait.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I also mention that normally with any site visit, the accreditors will usually have a preliminary idea of the decision, and it will be shared with the dean of the school and the University central administration (president/chancellor, whatever is the proper title). If there are problems, that can be resolved over the months between the visit and the public announcement.

This does not directly affect the accreditation of any of the other parts of CNU (dental school, pharmacy school, postbac program, undergrad, etc.). But this definitely should give anyone pause.

 

[Goro]

I also mention that normally with any site visit, the accreditors will usually have a preliminary idea of the decision, and it will be shared with the dean of the school and the University central administration (president/chancellor, whatever is the proper title). If there are problems, that can be resolved over the months between the visit and the public announcement.

This does not directly affect the accreditation of any of the other parts of CNU (dental school, pharmacy school, postbac program, undergrad, etc.). But this definitely should give anyone pause.

I have a good friend on faculty at a Pharm school, and they tell me that CNU's Pharm school is is big trouble. A lot of new pharm schools are in trouble.

 

[Goro]

should I go through with this school if it remains my only acceptance this cycle?

I normally tell people to not turn down their only accept, but that advice is hard to give in this situation. Wait until March