California Single-Payer: Implications for Pain?

[10KHertz]

to be fair, I dont think anyone would allow projects being built next to their mansions. Cant ruin the property values by bringing poors around.

Then you can’t pretend to care for equal housing if you are against multi family zoning next door.. . California needs multi family zoning and that means large affordable housing projects next door… In My state we mandate 25-30% allocation of units to affordable rent. Californians are the biggest hypocrites(and most blue states). Or just admit you like elite school and property zoning regulations and that you are not a progressive/liberal, just one at the cocktail parties…

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[qwerty89]

Seeing that Californians are fleeing in droves to every other state is a pretty good indicator of how things are in California lol. Dont need to live in a ****hole to know its a ****hole

Married educated high income earners are actually not fleeing the state. They are still moving in.

It's the middle class divorced teacher or secretary married UPS driver that are getting priced out and moving out.

It has been this way for years.

 

[qwerty89]

The blues states have the worse housing crisis and taxation and education zoning (rich districts). A liberal will never allow an affordable housing project next to their Cali mansions. Dems live a lie, a life of contradictions and delusions… this is coming from a life long democrat.

Speaking of which...

"Along with officials in many other O.C. cities, she is fighting a state mandate to build new homes — more than 183,000 countywide over the next seven years."

“I’m not a NIMBY,” Huang said, using an acronym for “not in my backyard.” “I just think it’s important for people to understand that one size fits all doesn’t work, and that’s the very policy Sacramento is pushing on us.”

Pretty sure she's a NIMBY.

"But residents fear that what they love about Yorba Linda — the pastoral landscapes, the wide-open boulevards, the privacy — could be lost if too many others join them."

*clutches pearls*

 

[drusso]

The blues states have the worse housing crisis and taxation and education zoning (rich districts). A liberal will never allow an affordable housing project next to their Cali mansions. Dems live a lie, a life of contradictions and delusions… this is coming from a life long democrat.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Then you can’t pretend to care for equal housing if you are against multi family zoning next door.. . California needs multi family zoning and that means large affordable housing projects next door… In My state we mandate 25-30% allocation of units to affordable rent. Californians are the biggest hypocrites(and most blue states). Or just admit you like elite school and property zoning regulations and that you are not a progressive/liberal, just one at the cocktail parties…

Oh I am not saying that you shouldnt have affordable rent. What I am saying is that it should be allocated in the buildings that are already there instead of erecting ****ty looking buildings that ruin property values of surrounding areas.

To your second point, are you suggesting that liberals and progressives cannot like attending elite schools and zone their housing property accordingly?

 

[SSdoc33]

DOA

Single-payer plan flatlines in Sacramento

This was supposed to be the year California progressives got closer.

www.politico.com

 

[drusso]

DOA

Single-payer plan flatlines in Sacramento

This was supposed to be the year California progressives got closer.

www.politico.com

Amazing the D's couldn't pull this off. They completely control the process. I wonder why they chickened out...the R's couldn't stop them even if they wanted to.

 

[hyperalgesia]

Amazing the D's couldn't pull this off. They completely control the process. I wonder why they chickened out...the R's couldn't stop them even if they wanted to.

Don't worry, they'll still blame the Republican party.

 

[Baron Samedi]

Amazing the D's couldn't pull this off. They completely control the process. I wonder why they chickened out...the R's couldn't stop them even if they wanted to.

Its because they didn't want to. Yes, there are a few liberals in the Democratic party but the vast majority of elected Ds are more closely aligned to Reagan and Nixon than to their liberal counterparts. We do not have a mainstream liberal party in the United States.

 

[drusso]

Its because they didn't want to. Yes, there are a few liberals in the Democratic party but the vast majority of elected Ds are more closely aligned to Reagan and Nixon than to their liberal counterparts. We do not have a mainstream liberal party in the United States.

I think that the ghost of Reagan just threw up in his mouth a little...

 

[SSdoc33]

I think that the ghost of Reagan just threw up in his mouth a little...

if you look at reagan's policies, he is more closer to where the Ds are now than the Rs.

with the glaring exception of his lack of women in his administration

 

[nvrsumr]

Reagan nominated the first female supreme court justice

 

[SSdoc33]

Reagan nominated the first female supreme court justice

exactly the response i was hoping for. you have to think 3 posts ahead:

reagan nominated oconnor in direct response to an outcry from women's right activists due to his horrible track record on appointing women. not that i'd expect any of you to read this, but here you go:

Transcript: The Rachel Maddow Show, 1/26/22

Guests: Nina Totenberg, Amy Klobuchar, Dahlia Lithwick

www.msnbc.com

 

[hyperalgesia]

I think Reagan was kind of like Romney, who was demonized as the devil by Democrats/socialists.

California is a great example among many of Democrats talking in platitudes but totally unable to deliver. "Healthcare is a right". Gimme a break lol.

 

[Baron Samedi]

I think Reagan was kind of like Romney, who was demonized as the devil by Democrats/socialists.

California is a great example among many of Democrats talking in platitudes but totally unable to deliver. "Healthcare is a right". Gimme a break lol.

To be fair, Reagan would be called a RINO by today's GOP.

I didn't mean my comment to suggest that Reagan was a liberal. He was not. Rather, the majority of Dem leadership isn't, either.

 

[macman]

To be fair, Reagan would be called a RINO by today's GOP.

I didn't mean my comment to suggest that Reagan was a liberal. He was not. Rather, the majority of Dem leadership isn't, either.

...and if you take the text of JFK's speeches today's Dems would think it was Trump. For that matter you can take quotes form Obama and college students think it is Trump. Dems have lurched hard left. radicalized by Trump? not sure the exact cause. **** my favorite (always left leaning) spice company has gone full psycho, if you read their emails (not sure what it has to do with spices and cooking) you would think GOP is to the right of Hitler

 

[Baron Samedi]

You know, that word "radical" really loses its meaning when you guys use it so often.

I heard someone called Biden a "radical Marxist" the other day. Had a good chuckle.

 

[macman]

You know, that word "radical" really loses its meaning when you guys use it so often.

I heard someone called Biden a "radical Marxist" the other day. Had a good chuckle.

Indeed, Biden is not a radical marxist. That would take brains. He is what they tell him to be, I think it is been that way for quite a bit of his career. He is a figure head, a useful idiot in his early years, now a useless idiot. I take no pleasure in saying that as I would much prefer to have someone competent. We went from SJW-->narcissist-->LGB

 

[anonperson]

Amazing the D's couldn't pull this off. They completely control the process. I wonder why they chickened out...the R's couldn't stop them even if they wanted to.

Was never financially feasible.

Would increase taxes too much. Sure everyone would get some care but it probably wouldn't be great.

The borders aren't secure so there would be an infinite supply of patients for a limited amount of resources.

 

[hyperalgesia]

But their excuse will be that it can only work nationally because Norway...

 

[specepic]

But their excuse will be that it can only work nationally because Norway...

"....our policies do not seem to work now, but give us even more power and money and we will do better...."

 

[Pain Applicant1]

I personally don't have strong feelings about single-payer one way or another but if there is one silver lining to it I would hope it would put the commercial payers out of business. I'd love to give it back to them. For some reason, unfortunately, I feel that if single-payer was implemented the higher-ups with these commercial insurers would somehow benefit from it. Probably sit on a board somewhere or be contracted to manage it.

 

[SSdoc33]

if anything, this california "failure" shows us for far away we really are from single payer. this is good news to those who aren't fans of the idea. maybe we slowly trudge towards some sort of universal coverage, but it will move at the speed of a slug

 

[macman]

if anything, this california "failure" shows us for far away we really are from single payer. this is good news to those who aren't fans of the idea. maybe we slowly trudge towards some sort of universal coverage, but it will move at the speed of a slug

failed in VT too. As much as Scandinavia is held out as the example, the reality if their taxes are much flatter and LESS progressive that the US. The tax the rich drum beat is actually inconsistent with the Scandinavian model. They tax everyone. their are not enough billionaires in the US to cover the bill, but that fact doesn't win elections or inspire the base

 

[SSdoc33]

failed in VT too. As much as Scandinavia is held out as the example, the reality if their taxes are much flatter and LESS progressive that the US. The tax the rich drum beat is actually inconsistent with the Scandinavian model. They tax everyone. their are not enough billionaires in the US to cover the bill, but that fact doesn't win elections or inspire the base

somewhat misleading

scandinavia doesnt have the wealth gap we do

How Scandinavian Countries Pay for Their Government Spending

Scandinavian countries are well known for their broad social safety net and their public funding of services such as universal health care, higher education, parental leave, and child and elderly care. So how do Scandinavian countries raise their tax revenues?

taxfoundation.org

we have to close the loopholes. LTCG rates should go up a tick. hedge fund carried interest needs to go away, etc.

im not saying that garnering extra revenue should fund single payer, tho. what "should" happen with health care is an entirely separate discussion

 

[deleted941485]

failed in VT too. As much as Scandinavia is held out as the example, the reality if their taxes are much flatter and LESS progressive that the US. The tax the rich drum beat is actually inconsistent with the Scandinavian model. They tax everyone. their are not enough billionaires in the US to cover the bill, but that fact doesn't win elections or inspire the base

You have to be able to point to someone else to foot the bill that’s been the game forever.

If you want higher taxes- hold up Jeff Bezos or Jamie Dimon. The reality of who is actually paying the bill is more like some well to do family in a nice neighborhood. Not a jet setter who spends his time on a mega yacht and speaking at davos.

If you want a bigger welfare state, point to the most destitution and desperation you can find.

 

[drusso]

somewhat misleading

scandinavia doesnt have the wealth gap we do

How Scandinavian Countries Pay for Their Government Spending

Scandinavian countries are well known for their broad social safety net and their public funding of services such as universal health care, higher education, parental leave, and child and elderly care. So how do Scandinavian countries raise their tax revenues?

taxfoundation.org

we have to close the loopholes. LTCG rates should go up a tick. hedge fund carried interest needs to go away, etc.

im not saying that garnering extra revenue should fund single payer, tho. what "should" happen with health care is an entirely separate discussion

The Left would rather see the poor are poorer provided that the rich are less rich...

 

[SSdoc33]

The Left would rather see the poor are poorer provided that the rich are less rich...

iron lady, my ass.

btw, can we put a cap on the amount of times you repost this? you dont want me to keep putting up liz warren's speech, do you?

 

[Mad Jack]

I've seen reports that this would literally double the state taxes for everyone with an average taxpayer cost of $12,000 each.

Which is why this state funded program costs double the current amount of buying your own coverage in CA.........because with the CA state run plan half of your money goes to pay for illegals, homeless, and all those who can't be bothered to work a regular job.

Unlikely. The first step of single payer is coverage, the next step is price controls. Then we can see how the system fares with the fallout.

 

[drusso]

iron lady, my ass.

btw, can we put a cap on the amount of times you repost this? you dont want me to keep putting up liz warren's speech, do you?

It's just so obvious. And Thatcher was way more skilled in Statecraft than Warren...

 

[SSdoc33]

It's just so obvious. And Thatcher was way more skilled in Statecraft than Warren...

the cap is obvious? great! ill hold you to that. no more thatcher in parliament videos!

im not comparing the political prowess of the two. there is no comparison, really. if you want to vomit, watch this video -- at least the first half. its safe for work, just not safe for most on this board.....

 

[lobelsteve]

the cap is obvious? great! ill hold you to that. no more thatcher in parliament videos!

im not comparing the political prowess of the two. there is no comparison, really. if you want to vomit, watch this video -- at least the first half. its safe for work, just not safe for most on this board.....

Go ahead and defend whoopi while you are at it.

 

[bedrock]

Unlikely. The first step of single payer is coverage, the next step is price controls. Then we can see how the system fares with the fallout.

Read any news report on this. All even liberal media stated more than double the current CA taxes to pay for single payor, which is a big reason why it died this past week in the CA legislature.

 

[deleted941485]

Read any news report on this. All even liberal media stated more than double the current CA taxes to pay for single payor, which is a big reason why it died this past week in the CA legislature.

It’s gonna have to be on the national level. You need all the funny money printing press violent coercion that you can get to pull this off. And even if you can, the best you’ll get is private companies “administering” the plan and taking their cut.

 

[buddababa]

single payor will be just like medicare advantage plans. Just with private companies. Terrible.

 

[hyperalgesia]

California has big ambitions but doesn't get the basics right.

SF DA says it objected to mental health diversion and release of man charged with 27 anti-Asian hate crimes

After it was reported that the man charged with more than half of San Francisco’s anti-Asian hate crimes in 2021 is out of custody, the District Attorney’s Office of Chesa Boudin has clarified their objections to the court’s decision. Derik Barreto, 37, allegedly vandalized and burglarized 20...

news.yahoo.com

 

[SSdoc33]

the only way the money works is if it is a really crappy plan that everyone HAS to take. then people with means can buy supplemental private insurance

 

[deleted941485]

the only way the money works is if it is a really crappy plan that everyone HAS to take. then people with means can buy supplemental private insurance

I’m sure some specialties will simply be trapped in it. Oncology I don’t see people springing extra cash for. May for Ortho or plastics they would

 

[hyperalgesia]

the only way the money works is if it is a really crappy plan that everyone HAS to take. then people with means can buy supplemental private insurance

Do you plan to replace Medicare with a really crappy plan?

 

[SSdoc33]

Do you plan to replace Medicare with a really crappy plan?

yup. no medicare option.

i didnt say everyone would LIKE this plan. but its the only way to have universal care from a financial standpoint

 

[hyperalgesia]

yup. no medicare option.

i didnt say everyone would LIKE this plan. but its the only way to have universal care from a financial standpoint

Assuming you got this approved, how would you implement?

Would you do a VA type model with employed people and federally owned labs, and facilities? Or a Medicaid type model with private facilities and sponsored by state/federal funding? Or like Medicare, federally funded with private contractors managing private docs/ ancillaries?

 

[Ferrismonk]

Married educated high income earners are actually not fleeing the state. They are still moving in.

It's the middle class divorced teacher or secretary married UPS driver that are getting priced out and moving out.

It has been this way for years.

Yep. Get rid of those poor people.

 

[Ferrismonk]

the only way the money works is if it is a really crappy plan that everyone HAS to take. then people with means can buy supplemental private insurance

I 100% agree with this. Abolish Medicare and Medicaid. Create a federal program which guarantees basic preventative care, cheap generic medications, and children 100% (to citizens only). This should NOT be in partnership with any private entity. Everything else you can purchase a private plan to cover if you so desire. With basic preventative care taken out of the cost-side, private health insurance would be much more affordable as well.

 

[buddababa]

single payor will be just like medicare advantage plans. Just with private companies. Terrible.

I 100% agree with this. Abolish Medicare and Medicaid. Create a federal program which guarantees basic preventative care, cheap generic medications, and children 100% (to citizens only). This should NOT be in partnership with any private entity. Everything else you can purchase a private plan to cover if you so desire. With basic preventative care taken out of the cost-side, private health insurance would be much more affordable as well.

I like this idea.

 

[hyperalgesia]

I 100% agree with this. Abolish Medicare and Medicaid. Create a federal program which guarantees basic preventative care, cheap generic medications, and children 100% (to citizens only). This should NOT be in partnership with any private entity. Everything else you can purchase a private plan to cover if you so desire. With basic preventative care taken out of the cost-side, private health insurance would be much more affordable as well.

This is basically the VA model with a more limited scope of care but accessible to all. I think it's a good solution.

Politically, the only route I see to achieve it would be to offer it as a medicaid alternative in select communities, to compete with medicare and medicaid...

 

[Ferrismonk]

This is basically the VA model with a more limited scope of care but accessible to all. I think it's a good solution.

Politically, the only route I see to achieve it would be to offer it as a medicaid alternative in select communities, to compete with medicare and medicaid...

Yeah, politically it's virtually not possible. Any additional programs (without removing the others) will just make the whole mess worse imo.