Call it marijuana....don't call it medicine

[PainDrain]

I continue to be appalled at the attitudes about marijuana use and its perception as a legitimate form of medicine. I have read the "studies" and to say this is a proven therapy that is more effective than conventional treatments is laughable. I cannot believe some medical societies have endorsed this and I feel it has only clouded the publics' perception of marijuana as a true drug of abuse. If you look at the history of the medical marijuana movement it has a foundation in the libertarian movement, whose goal is legalization of all drugs. The goal of groups like NORML is legalization for recreational and they saw "medicalization" as a means to an end.

Lastly, if this is a legitimate form of medicine and I, as a physician use marijuana for medical purpose, why is it that my state license is at risk? This is a drug legalized in my state and I am licensed by a state board. So what's the problem?

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[willabeast]

The world hates change, yet it is the only thing that has brought progress.
Charles Kettering

 

[PainDrain]

The world hates change, yet it is the only thing that has brought progress.
Charles Kettering

How is this "change" good for medicine or society?

This sounds like Portnoy circa 1990 and look where that has gotten us

 

[willabeast]

How is this "change" good for medicine or society?

This sounds like Portnoy circa 1990 and look where that has gotten us

Licensed and regulated marijuana stores in Colorado sold $996,184,788 worth of recreational and medical cannabis in 2015, according to new data from the state Department of Revenue.

“I think it’s ethical to round that up to a billion,” cannabis industry attorney Christian Sederberg said Tuesday upon first hearing the 2015 totals.

Colorado recreational marijuana sales first started on Jan. 1, 2014.


Colorado also collected more than $135 million in marijuana taxes and fees in 2015 — more than $35 million of which is earmarked for school construction projects.

According to the ACLU’s original analysis, marijuana arrests now account for over half of all drug arrests in the United States. Of the 8.2 million marijuana arrests between 2001 and 2010, 88% were for simply having marijuana. Nationwide, the arrest data revealed one consistent trend: significant racial bias. Despite roughly equal usage rates, Blacks are 3.73 times more likely than whites to be arrested for marijuana.
Amount spent annually in the U.S. on the war on drugs: More than $51,000,000,000

Number of arrests in 2014 in the U.S. for drug law violations: 1,561,231

• Number of these arrests that were for possession only: 1,297,384 (83 percent)

Number of arrests in 2014 in the U.S. for marijuana law violations: 700,993

• Number of these arrests that were for possession only: 619,809 (88 percent)

Number of Americans incarcerated in 2014 in federal, state and local prisons and jails:2,224,400 or 1 in every 111 adults, the highest incarceration rate in the world

Proportion of people incarcerated for a drug offense in state prison who are black or Latino, although these groups use and sell drugs at similar rates as whites: 57 percent

Number of states that allow the medical use of marijuana: 25 + District of Columbia

Number of states that have approved legally taxing and regulating marijuana: 4 (Alaska, Colorado, Oregon and Washington)

Number of states that have decriminalized marijuana by eliminating criminal penalties for simple possession of small amounts for personal use: 20

Estimated annual revenue that California would raise if it taxed and regulated the sale of marijuana: $1,400,000,000

Number of people killed in Mexico's drug war since 2006: 100,000+

Number of students who have lost federal financial aid eligibility because of a drug conviction: 200,000+

 

[bedrock]

Just treat it like alcohol, legal but regulated, taxed significantly, not allowed until age 21. I expect California to make recreational MJ legal in six weeks.

However MJ does alter the sensorium as does alcohol and so I won't write COT for patients taking MJ, (or alcohol). Only one mind altering substance at a time.

 

[PainDrain]

Just treat it like alcohol, legal but regulated, taxed significantly, not allowed until age 21. I expect California to make recreational MJ legal in six weeks.

However MJ does alter the sensorium as does alcohol and so just like alcohol, I won't write COT for patients taking MJ, (or alcohol). Only one mind altering substance at a time.

My point exactly.

 

[DrCommonSense]

I continue to be appalled at the attitudes about marijuana use and its perception as a legitimate form of medicine. I have read the "studies" and to say this is a proven therapy that is more effective than conventional treatments is laughable. I cannot believe some medical societies have endorsed this and I feel it has only clouded the publics' perception of marijuana as a true drug of abuse. If you look at the history of the medical marijuana movement it has a foundation in the libertarian movement, whose goal is legalization of all drugs. The goal of groups like NORML is legalization for recreational and they saw "medicalization" as a means to an end.

Lastly, if this is a legitimate form of medicine and I, as a physician use marijuana for medical purpose, why is it that my state license is at risk? This is a drug legalized in my state and I am licensed by a state board. So what's the problem?

Its a liberal's wet dream. You know how liberals are.

 

[lonelobo]

Its a liberal's wet dream. You know how liberals are.

Yes " No Conservatives" enjoy MJ at all....

 

[willabeast]

Just treat it like alcohol, legal but regulated, taxed significantly, not allowed until age 21. I expect California to make recreational MJ legal in six weeks.

However MJ does alter the sensorium as does alcohol and so I won't write COT for patients taking MJ, (or alcohol). Only one mind altering substance at a time.

Freedom is something that dies unless it's used.
Hunter S. Thompson

In a closed society where everybody's guilty, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity.
Hunter S. Thompson

The only difference between the sane and the insane is that the sane have the power to lock up the insane.
Hunter S. Thompson

 

[Stim4me]

Just treat it like alcohol, legal but regulated, taxed significantly, not allowed until age 21. I expect California to make recreational MJ legal in six weeks.

However MJ does alter the sensorium as does alcohol and so I won't write COT for patients taking MJ, (or alcohol). Only one mind altering substance at a time.

This theory of just regulating another mind altering substance adds to the public health issues and societal cost. The point of the NEJM review of MJ is that yes it may not kill you, but it adds to more societal health issues. The masses apparently are cool with adding more bad options to the public plate.... Not smart public health policy .

 

[SSdoc33]

This theory of just regulating another mind altering substance adds to the public health issues and societal cost. The point of the NEJM review of MJ is that yes it may not kill you, but it adds to more societal health issues. The masses apparently are cool with adding more bad options to the public plate.... Not smart public health policy .

it pains me to agree with stim, but he is right.

implicit in the legalization of medical marijuana is its legitimacy as a medical treatment option. i cant remember the last time i saw a patient on "medical marijuana" who had a job, wasnt on disability, etc.

 

[willabeast]

This theory of just regulating another mind altering substance adds to the public health issues and societal cost. The point of the NEJM review of MJ is that yes it may not kill you, but it adds to more societal health issues. The masses apparently are cool with adding more bad options to the public plate.... Not smart public health policy .

in a free society one (used) to have the right to harm oneself. go ahead and make sure there are no bad options for american citizens - but don't call it a free country anymore. and maybe let's look at the impartial eval of risk/benefit of motorcycle riding, downhill skiing, surfing, mountain climbing, ETOH, all smoking, gyms, guns, knives, swimming in water deeper than one can stand in, interventional spine procedures in fact all medical procedures, water skiing,sky diving. lets limit all motor vehicles to to factory limits of 70 miles per hour .

 

[Stim4me]

in a free society one (used) to have the right to harm oneself. go ahead and make sure there are no bad options for american citizens - but don't call it a free country anymore. and maybe let's look at the impartial eval of risk/benefit of motorcycle riding, downhill skiing, surfing, mountain climbing, ETOH, all smoking, gyms, guns, knives, swimming in water deeper than one can stand in, interventional spine procedures in fact all medical procedures, water skiing,sky diving. lets limit all motor vehicles to to factory limits of 70 miles per hour .

Majority of those examples effect individuals. MJ, alcoholism and guns effect others... Regulate things that effect public health and society. I can careless if you like surfing or down hill skiing or motorbikes with no helmets , as long as you have money to pay for you ICU costs . If you don't have the money your assests should be free game.

 

[bedrock]

in a free society one (used) to have the right to harm oneself. go ahead and make sure there are no bad options for american citizens - but don't call it a free country anymore. and maybe let's look at the impartial eval of risk/benefit of motorcycle riding, downhill skiing, surfing, mountain climbing, ETOH, all smoking, gyms, guns, knives, swimming in water deeper than one can stand in, interventional spine procedures in fact all medical procedures, water skiing,sky diving. lets limit all motor vehicles to to factory limits of 70 miles per hour .

Agree completely. I don't want a nanny state where we are all treated like 5 year olds.

This theory of just regulating another mind altering substance adds to the public health issues and societal cost. The point of the NEJM review of MJ is that yes it may not kill you, but it adds to more societal health issues. The masses apparently are cool with adding more bad options to the public plate.... Not smart public health policy .

What about the enormous societal cost of drug enforcement, drug dealers, drug violence, and people who can't get decent jobs and fit into society, just because they smoked a little weed?
Look what alcohol prohibition did to further the criminal infrastructure of this country.

I agree the medical benefits of MJ are overstated, just as are the medical benefits of alcohol.

I'm just talking about recreational marijuana, and treating recreational marijuana the way we treat recreational alcohol.
Either both should be banned, or both allowed but regulated and heavily taxed as I described above.

 

[lonelobo]

Majority of those examples effect individuals. MJ, alcoholism and guns effect others... Regulate things that effect public health and society. I can careless if you like surfing or down hill skiing or motorbikes with no helmets , as long as you have money to pay for you ICU costs . If you don't have the money your assests should be free game.

most of these people don't have millions( or even close) in assets that it will cost to care for them the rest of their lives

 

[SSdoc33]

Agree completely. I don't want a nanny state where we are all treated like 5 year olds.


I agree the medical benefits of MJ are overstated, just as are the medical benefits of alcohol.

I'm just talking about recreational marijuana, and treating recreational marijuana the way we treat recreational alcohol.
Either both should be banned, or both allowed but regulated and heavily taxed as I described above.

?

 

[bedrock]

cardiovascular benefits from one drink per day, are overstated and oversimplified,IMHO.

 

[lonelobo]

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles...ses-in-states-that-legalize-medical-marijuana

 

[Stim4me]

Agree completely. I don't want a nanny state where we are all treated like 5 year olds.




What about the enormous societal cost of drug enforcement, drug dealers, drug violence, and people who can't get decent jobs and fit into society, just because they smoked a little weed?
Look what alcohol prohibition did to further the criminal infrastructure of this country.

I agree the medical benefits of MJ are overstated, just as are the medical benefits of alcohol.

I'm just talking about recreational marijuana, and treating recreational marijuana the way we treat recreational alcohol.
Either both should be banned, or both allowed but regulated and heavily taxed as I described above.

The slippery slope arguements gone on forever... Everybody has a point.

What I would recommend is more public health and neurophysiological studies before proposing more recreational or medicinal use. Do you know the MVAs incidences in Colorado associated with MJ has gone up >30%.... Is that what you want for your state/family/kids?? Are you okay with more societal deaths due to another illicit substance?

 

[willabeast]

Majority of those examples effect individuals. MJ, alcoholism and guns effect others... Regulate things that effect public health and society. I can careless if you like surfing or down hill skiing or motorbikes with no helmets , as long as you have money to pay for you ICU costs . If you don't have the money your assests should be free game.

they all affect everyone in a nation ruled by attorneys.

 

[Stim4me]

they all affect everyone in a nation ruled by attorneys.

I can't disagree with you guys as I'm all for libertarian and constitutional principles. I just don't want my family killed by a nation high on MJ...

 

[bedrock]

I don't think increased there will be a 30% sustained increase in MVAs. Takes some time for the system to adjust and bring testing online to check for MJ intoxication.

 

[lonelobo]

If you are worried about drivers on MJ, you should really be worried about drivers that text,,,

 

[Stim4me]

I don't think increased there will be a 30% sustained increase in MVAs. Takes some time for the system to adjust and bring testing online to check for MJ intoxication.

http://m.gazette.com/study-finds-fa...sen-since-legalized-marijuana/article/1559401
It's already happening... Double the fatalities since 2009 inception of MJ in state of CO... This is pure MJ effect, double the incidents directly related to MJ

 

[lonelobo]

https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/csp/traffic-safety-statistics

 

[PainDrain]

I know one thing. If a member of my family was killed by some idiot high on MJ, I would make it my mission to remove them and the supply chain from society.

 

[Ligament]

I'm in Seattle. I can smell marijuana smoke every single day, ON THE ROAD. (its not from me).

 

[geauxg8rs]

I'm in Seattle. I can smell marijuana smoke every single day, ON THE ROAD. (its not from me).

So you prolly should be afraid of people blazing up and eating while driving. Almost as dangerous as texting and driving

 

[Stim4me]

So you prolly should be afraid of people blazing up and eating while driving. Almost as dangerous as texting and driving

They are all bad habits... Americans are fat and high as a kite

 

[Mad Jack]

I know patients that were damn near unable to function in society with opiates that are fine utilizing medical marijuana. The results, for some, speak for themselves. Plus I've never known someone to die from medical marijuana, while opiates- well, ya know...

 

[Stim4me]

I know patients that were damn near unable to function in society with opiates that are fine utilizing medical marijuana. The results, for some, speak for themselves. Plus I've never known someone to die from medical marijuana, while opiates- well, ya know...

The masses always resort to the same sophomoric arguement that MJ doesn't kill. That's fine and all, but there is an addiction rate of 10% as well as numerous health consequences. we are physicians and we should consider public health implications. Read the NEJM article on MJ, understand the overall consequences of the drug and its effect on the society around you. The message is that making more illicit mind altering drugs available is cumulative and BAD for society. Plus most of us do not over prescribe opioids and most MJ prescribing docs in my area are the same scumbag pcps charging $400 a MJ card for any bull**** diagnosis (i.e. PTSD). As pain drain stated this is just another portnoy disaster that will manifest in 10 years time.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMra1402309

 

[Mad Jack]

The masses always resort to the same sophomoric arguement that MJ doesn't kill. That's fine and all, but there is an addiction rate of 10% as well as numerous health consequences. we are physicians and we should consider public health implications. Read the NEJM article on MJ, understand the overall consequences of the drug and its effect on the society around you. The message is that making more illicit mind altering drugs available is cumulative and BAD for society. Plus most of us do not over prescribe opioids and most MJ prescribing docs in my area are the same scumbag pcps charging $400 a MJ card for any bull**** diagnosis (i.e. PTSD). As pain drain stated this is just another portnoy disaster that will manifest in 10 years time.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMra1402309

Do you honestly believe that marijuana is more likely to kill than opiates? Because I know, personally, several people that have died from opiates, all of them who initially started on pain meds, got hooked, and graduated to heroin, and zero dead from marijuana. It's not a great substance, but for pain management, it isn't a bad one.

 

[Stim4me]

Do you honestly believe that marijuana is more likely to kill than opiates? Because I know, personally, several people that have died from opiates, all of them who initially started on pain meds, got hooked, and graduated to heroin, and zero dead from marijuana. It's not a great substance, but for pain management, it isn't a bad one.

so yes, people tend not to die directly from inhaling weed. but big picture, MVA deaths/accidents have doubled per CO department of transportation (directly linked to MJ usage while driving).
there is a clear addiction rate of 10% in this weed smoking population, there are medical consequences including neurocognitive dysfunction.
neither opioids or MJ are ideal pain options. I let my patients find a MJ doctor and discontinue opioids occasionally. I prefer neuropathic meds/interventional options and hopefully the new synthetic opioids with much less addiction potential that Steve L has posted recently. I believe they are in stage 3 clinical trials and have a chance to make it to the mainstream, assuming insurances pay for it.

 

[lobelsteve]

Do you honestly believe that marijuana is more likely to kill than opiates? Because I know, personally, several people that have died from opiates, all of them who initially started on pain meds, got hooked, and graduated to heroin, and zero dead from marijuana. It's not a great substance, but for pain management, it isn't a bad one.

And there is adequate literature to support THC for pain? No, no there is not. And let's say your note recommends THC for pain and the patient gets lung cancer. Did you really recommend smoking for your patient doctor?

 

[Mad Jack]

And there is adequate literature to support THC for pain? No, no there is not. And let's say your note recommends THC for pain and the patient gets lung cancer. Did you really recommend smoking for your patient doctor?

Every study to date has shown no correlation between marijuana and lung cancer. I know this because I attempted to find such evidence assuming it would exist, as I was fairly anti-MJ myself, but the research just doesn't back it up. Car accidents I suppose you could use as an argument, but opiates don't exactly make people stay behind the wheel either, and they have directly been linked to a massive increase in deaths and addiction.

As to no research on marijuana and pain control, the research doesn't exist because it's still Schedule 1.

 

[lobelsteve]

http://www.lung.org/stop-smoking/sm...g-health.html?referrer=http://www.google.com/

Not cancer, but not good.

 

[SSdoc33]

no self-respecting doctor should recommend smoking MJ as a medical treatment for any diagnosis.

standardize the drug, test it, put it in a pill or injectable, and measure its efficacy. just like any other pharmaceutical.

otherwise, recommending Panama Red doesnt seem to be the best option.

legalization for leisurely use is a completely different topic

 

[PainDrain]

My main issue with the term and use of "medical MJ" is that in my community it has become accepted as legitimate. My wife was at a community forum the other night on opiate abuse and an elected official stood up and said we shouldn't be stigmatizing use of alcohol and MJ by teens (and I quote) "because casual alcohol and MJ use by teens is not the same thing as opiate use." Wtf? Seriously this was an elected official, a civic leader who has no idea how one leads to the other.

 

[Mad Jack]

no self-respecting doctor should recommend smoking MJ as a medical treatment for any diagnosis.

standardize the drug, test it, put it in a pill or injectable, and measure its efficacy. just like any other pharmaceutical.

otherwise, recommending Panama Red doesnt seem to be the best option.

legalization for leisurely use is a completely different topic

The trouble with that approach is that it assumes no natural substance can be more clinically effective than an artificial derivative. Marijuana has hundreds of chemicals that interact with the body in various ways- who is to say that the whole isn't better than the sum of its parts? Why do we feel the need to strip things down to one less effective active ingredient and sell it for thousands when we've got a combination product that is inexpensive and easy enough for the patient to grow themselves if they were so inclined? I think it should be studied far more extensively, but the 'ol FDA isn't down with that. As to recreation, most of the pain-reducing strains are fairly light on THC, they really aren't designed to get you high. I've got a family member who was essentially disabled by lower back pain that was completely refractory to conventional treatment, and the guy is doing great with medical marijuana. He uses a very low THC strain because he really doesn't like feeling high, and it works very well for him.

http://www.lung.org/stop-smoking/sm...g-health.html?referrer=http://www.google.com/

Not cancer, but not good.

Could always eat it instead. Smoking isn't your only option.

 

[SSdoc33]

The trouble with that approach is that it assumes no natural substance can be more clinically effective than an artificial derivative. Marijuana has hundreds of chemicals that interact with the body in various ways- who is to say that the whole isn't better than the sum of its parts? Why do we feel the need to strip things down to one less effective active ingredient and sell it for thousands when we've got a combination product that is inexpensive and easy enough for the patient to grow themselves if they were so inclined? I think it should be studied far more extensively, but the 'ol FDA isn't down with that. As to recreation, most of the pain-reducing strains are fairly light on THC, they really aren't designed to get you high. I've got a family member who was essentially disabled by lower back pain that was completely refractory to conventional treatment, and the guy is doing great with medical marijuana. He uses a very low THC strain because he really doesn't like feeling high, and it works very well for him.

Could always eat it instead. Smoking isn't your only option.

there is some merit to your "natural" theory. i agree that by making one particular molecule, we are only targeting one specific receptor in the body and causing a whole host of other problems (see just about every drug out there, including opiates).

i dont mean to disbelieve your family member story....... but i dont believe it. if your family member has "disabling" back pain then he more than likely has some psychiatric comorbidity, and he is using marijuana to get high. he is not treating his back pain - doesnt work that way. thats fine. go to it. but be truthful for the real use of the MJ.

 

[Mad Jack]

there is some merit to your "natural" theory. i agree that by making one particular molecule, we are only targeting one specific receptor in the body and causing a whole host of other problems (see just about every drug out there, including opiates).

i dont mean to disbelieve your family member story....... but i dont believe it. if your family member has "disabling" back pain then he more than likely has some psychiatric comorbidity, and he is using marijuana to get high. he is not treating his back pain - doesnt work that way. thats fine. go to it. but be truthful for the real use of the MJ.

He was already retired, and isn't on disability, so it's not like the dude is out to milk the system. He just can't do anything after about two hours of being up, and basically just lounges about in pain after that (or at least he used to). He's got pretty severe disc issues that opiates and other pharmacotherapy did nothing for, and has been iffy about spinal surgery after reading the outcomes data. The medical marijuana seems to work pretty well for him, and like I said, he's using stuff that has virtually no THC- you can't get high off of that, not with the amount he uses.

Could be a placebo I guess. But I'd be pretty surprised that this, of all the placebos, was the one that worked.

 

[lonelobo]

so yes, people tend not to die directly from inhaling weed. but big picture, MVA deaths/accidents have doubled per CO department of transportation (directly linked to MJ usage while driving).
there is a clear addiction rate of 10% in this weed smoking population, there are medical consequences including neurocognitive dysfunction.
neither opioids or MJ are ideal pain options. I let my patients find a MJ doctor and discontinue opioids occasionally. I prefer neuropathic meds/interventional options and hopefully the new synthetic opioids with much less addiction potential that Steve L has posted recently. I believe they are in stage 3 clinical trials and have a chance to make it to the mainstream, assuming insurances pay for it.

Not exactly true

 

[101N]

If you want to get a good, evidence-based, unbiased review on this topic I'd
suggest Kevin Hill. Just heard him talk today: http://drkevinhill.com/

Very good speaker with no axes to grind.

 

[PainDrain]

If you want to get a good, evidence-based, unbiased review on this topic I'd
suggest Kevin Hill. Just heard him talk today: http://drkevinhill.com/

Very good speaker with no axes to grind.

Without buying his book, could you give me the cliff notes version?

 

[101N]

Without buying his book, could you give me the cliff notes version?

PM me and I'll send you his hand out. He's smart and open minded.

 

[Michael_Scott]

they all affect everyone in a nation ruled by attorneys.

you got that right...nation rules by attorneys..

I can't disagree with you guys as I'm all for libertarian and constitutional principles. I just don't want my family killed by a nation high on MJ...

This...
don't we have enough legal drugs for people to abuse on that we need more legalized drugs to ruin our welfare ?!...it's not the people who take it safely I am worried about, its the ones that abuse it...

 

[surfguy84]

you got that right...nation rules by attorneys..


This...
don't we have enough legal drugs for people to abuse on that we need more legalized drugs to ruin our welfare ?!...it's not the people who take it safely I am worried about, its the ones that abuse it...

Firstly, are the ones abusing marijuana deterred from using because it's illegal? MJ is incredibly available. Secondly, why are we so sure use will continue to climb if legalized? This hasn't be the case in other societies overseas (initially perhaps, but not in the long run).

Lastly, watch this video I'm posting below. How can one see the effects of MJ on this man's life and not be at least a little open to the idea of using it as medicine?

 

[Michael_Scott]

Firstly, are the ones abusing marijuana deterred from using because it's illegal? MJ is incredibly available. Secondly, why are we so sure use will continue to climb if legalized? This hasn't be the case in other societies overseas (initially perhaps, but not in the long run).

Lastly, watch this video I'm posting below. How can one see the effects of MJ on this man's life and not be at least a little open to the idea of using it as medicine?

never said medicinal use should not be considered, it is recreational use I am concerned about...and many people don't use it just because it is an illegal substance and don't want to go to jail, if it was legal like cigarettes or alcohol many people would try it...simple...

 

[surfguy84]

never said medicinal use should not be considered, it is recreational use I am concerned about...and many people don't use it just because it is an illegal substance and don't want to go to jail, if it was legal like cigarettes or alcohol many people would try it...simple...

Fair enough.

If we assume there will be some direct negative consequences of legalization, at what point are the positive consequences outweighing the bad? The massive influx of tax revenue to schools and other underfunded programs, decreased incarceration rates and the associated expenses, decreased opioid addictions/deaths (the studies are in on this one), the list goes on.

Let me pose it in another way... is it a bit disconcerting to know that two of the largest anti-legalization lobbyists are coming from Big Pharma, particularly those with a vested interest in opioid drugs... and the alcohol industry? Could it be they foresee their market share shrinking if MJ was made legal? If legal pot gets more people off pills and drinking less alcohol, I think this is a good thing and reason enough to deal with any negative consequences legal pot brings.

One last point. You make the assumption that an individual who refuses to use pot simply because it's illegal would then use the drug and... do what exactly? Break a different law, like drive intoxicated? I guess I'm not sure what you are assuming this person will do once she/he tries legal pot. He's already shown he won't break a law. So if we can safely assume this person will continue refraining from breaking laws, are you just afraid of him trying pot?

And FWIW, Portugal and some of the Northern European countries have seen a decrease in use after legalization/decriminalization efforts were made (this includes harder drugs too). They have a sound model which appears to be working...I wouldn't automatically assume legalization = free for all drug use.

 

[Ducttape]

There is no data that definitively shows that use of alcohol reduces when mj is legalized.

One biased study suggested that opioid rate use did decrease - but do has prescribing throughout the US during the times that were studied.

The problem with legalization is that, instead of drunk and opioid intoxicated people, we will have drunk and opioid intoxicated and high people.

I would really love to see a MJ device that does a breathalyzer (for alcohol and opioids) that does not deliver a dose of MJ if the person were already intoxicated... But I'm know NORML will say that it would violate MJ users civil liberties....


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