Calling yourself MD in USA and Canada

[OMFS hopeful]

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This topic has probably come up before, but I will post it again. Can you call yourself MD in the US without a medical license? What about in Canada?

Thx

 

[Bifid Uvula]

This topic has probably come up before, but I will post it again. Can you call yourself MD in the US without a medical license? What about in Canada?

Thx

If you are an MD you can call yourself an MD even without a license. You just cannot practice... unless you have a mobile van and dirty instruments. Ask Esclavo about his days doing basement dentistry.

 

[north2southOMFS]

Actually, you can call yourself whatever you like. you can call yourself the almighty if you wish, this is america, "land of the free." On the other hand, without haveing a liscense or being "liscence eligable", you cannot advertise, nor put on your door of your practice, or put on your prescriptions the MD.

This has recently gained some press becuase of a few select ding-dong oral surgeons out there who decided they would go to the caribbean for like a 3 month MD course, and then started advertising themselves as being DDS, MD. Well, as you can imagine, the medical community picked up on this rather quickly and blasted them a new one, as they should have.

So bifid is right, you can call yourself whatever you like, but if you shouldn't be calling yourself, you better borrow esclavos pimped out van and his dirty instruments first.

 

[OMFS hopeful]

so without a medical license, you cannot put DDS MD on your business card? That would suck.

 

[WestCoast]

so without a medical license, you cannot put DDS MD on your business card? That would suck.

why would that suck?

 

[rrc]

so without a medical license, you cannot put DDS MD on your business card? That would suck.

Actually, it depends on the state. One of my attendings was in private practice with an Antigua graduate. This individual did in fact put MD after his name. He was not licensed and this was allowed. He did of course have a dental license but not a medical license. Some states forbid this unless you have a license but others do not. I personally do not see the point of acquiring an off-shore sham medical degree then use it to falsely advertise you are a licensed physician. Other people dont see any harm in fooling the public. There is much debate about this currently in the AAOMS. There are also orthodontists and periodontists out there who have MD after their name via the same route. It's sad but true. Hopefully the AMA and/or federal government will crack down on these con-artists and set things straight.

 

[OMFS hopeful]

why would that suck?

that would suck because spending an additional 2 years in med school won't add to your oral surgery knowledge, plus the 100k tuition and 300k+ loss of potential income, and at the end you can't even put MD after your name without a license (some states require 2 yr of GS/Med to get licensed, and Canada requires you to finish the whole medical residency)......now tell me that doesn't suck.

 

[rrc]

that would suck because spending an additional 2 years in med school won't add to your oral surgery knowledge,

Um, yes it does.

And why would you want to put MD after your name without the qualifications to license yourself? You want the honor of MD without the duties required to obtain a license?

 

[crazy_sherm]

If you spend the time to get the MD degree, of course you can put it on your card. But if you're not licensed and try to practice as one, you'll get in trouble of course. Plus, it would be misleading to advertise youself as a licensed practitioner if you aren't.

I know a good number of MDs out there that go through med school and decide not to become clinicians. They don't do their residency, don't practice and decide to go on to business, consulting, etc. They all put MD on their business cards because they earned the degree. However, they don't try to pretend to be able to write scripts or diagnose disease.

 

[ItsGavinC]

If you spend the time to get the MD degree, of course you can put it on your card. But if you're not licensed and try to practice as one, you'll get in trouble of course. Plus, it would be misleading to advertise youself as a licensed practitioner if you aren't.

I know a good number of MDs out there that go through med school and decide not to become clinicians. They don't do their residency, don't practice and decide to go on to business, consulting, etc. They all put MD on their business cards because they earned the degree. However, they don't try to pretend to be able to write scripts or diagnose disease.

You're correct in part, but you're comparing apples to oranges. The poster isn't interested in writing a book and wondering if he can include "MD" after his name. He's going to be a practicing clinician (oral surgeon) and wants to put the MD after his name. The OP WILL be writing scripts and diagnosing disease under his dental license.

 

[Yah-E]

some states require 2 yr of GS/Med to get licensed

That is why selecting a MD-integrated OMFS residency is so important (they usually satisfies the ACGME licensure requirement for that particular state) and why 4-year with MD Optional residencies you have to be catious with (could end up longer than 6 years total to become a licensed MD)!

If you matched into a 6-year or 5-year MD OMFS residency program, then I don't see why you would even worry about being a licensed MD. Your MD OMFS residency should satisfy the ACGME requirements and you'll pass the 3 Steps!

I know that many OMFSurgeons don't want an active medical license because they don't want another board over their heads watching every step so they only keep the dental license active. If you have both the medical and dental license active, then you'll have to answer to both boards!

That's how I see it!

 

[adamlc18]

So for those that do a 4 yr w/ MD optional afterwards, can they put the MD after their name even though they won't have done a general surgery year? I assume the 2 optional after residency is just for med school.

 

[OMFS hopeful]

before we go off-topic, let me clarify the situation. Most 6-yr programs will give you 1 PGY in GS. But certain states (ex PA, MI) require 2 PGY to become licensed. So if you intend to practice in these states, you will need to complete one additional yr (after your integrated 6-yr omfs) of GS before you can be a licensed MD. Obviously, most oral surgeons won't bother and will just practice under their DDS license. In this situation, are they allowed to put MD after their names on business cards or advertisements, eventhough they are not licensed?

Also, does anyone know the regulation in Canada?

Thx for your help.

 

[ajmacgregor]

before we go off-topic, let me clarify the situation. Most 6-yr programs will give you 1 PGY in GS. But certain states (ex PA, MI) require 2 PGY to become licensed. So if you intend to practice in these states, you will need to complete one additional yr (after your integrated 6-yr omfs) of GS before you can be a licensed MD. Obviously, most oral surgeons won't bother and will just practice under their DDS license. In this situation, are they allowed to put MD after their names on business cards or advertisements, eventhough they are not licensed?

Thx for your help.

I know that the U-Mich and UPENN OMFS residents get credit for 2 years of general surgery...I think this is a way of addressing the state licensure issue...

 

[Yah-E]

Most 6-yr programs will give you 1 PGY in GS. But certain states (ex PA, MI) require 2 PGY to become licensed. So if you intend to practice in these states, you will need to complete one additional yr (after your integrated 6-yr omfs) of GS before you can be a licensed MD.

I see what you're saying, for those states that requires two years, you may have a problem getting your MD licensed during the 6 year residency. However, I see no problem for a double degreed OMFS to put the MD on a business card. It's just like those surgeons who has a JD, MBA, PhD behind their names on their business cards, it's simply stating an additional degree that you rightfully earned! You're practicing under a dental license which can cover all the scope in OMFS, unless you're in CA doing crap load of plastic, which we all know about the ordeal.

Does anyone have a direct website to a list of ACGME's requirement, like number of years required for a medical student to be a licensed MD? I try to go to ACGME's website, but there are just way too much info on there.

I know Nevada require 3 years to be licensed, Ohio is one year.

 

[Yah-E]

I know that the U-Mich and UPENN OMFS residents get credit for 2 years of general surgery...I think this is a way of addressing the state licensure issue...

Sweet, there's your answer. That's what I thought that most MD-integrated OMFS programs really make sure that everything is taken care of.

 

[Yah-E]

Does anyone have a direct website to a list of ACGME's requirement, like number of years required for a medical student to be a licensed MD?

I know Nevada require 3 years to be licensed, Ohio is one year.

Thanks to AJM (SDN Mod) in the Graduate Medical Education, General Residency Forum, he provided this amazing web link. I believe this website is a great resource for those of us interested in 6-year MD-OMFS as far as ACGME requirement (minimum postgraduate training required for initial medical licensure)

http://www.fsmb.org/usmle_eliinitial.html

Nevada is @ss backwards with its 3 year requirement!

 

[esclavo]

So for those that do a 4 yr w/ MD optional afterwards, can they put the MD after their name even though they won't have done a general surgery year? I assume the 2 optional after residency is just for med school.

I don't understand why someone would do an MD without doing the year of General Surgery. You LEARN and DO about 10 X more in that one year of general surgery than you do in the two or threee years of medical school doing didactics and clerkships. The "short-coat" time of med school blows, but the year of general surgery is legit-you get some real skills and real life abilitites.

 

[toofache32]

I don't understand why someone would do an MD without doing the year of General Surgery. You LEARN and DO about 10 X more in that one year of general surgery than you do in the two or threee years of medical school doing didactics and clerkships. The "short-coat" time of med school blows, but the year of general surgery is legit-you get some real skills and real life abilitites.

Definately. The only thing you do in med school is stand around and watch other people work until they say you can go home. Seriously. And take only 6 tests during your third year, virtually none your 4th year.

 

[north2southOMFS]

Definately. The only thing you do in med school is stand around and watch other people work until they say you can go home. Seriously. And take only 6 tests during your third year, virtually none your 4th year.

Yah, but that "you can go home now" line is the most important thing said out of anyones mouth that entire day. Its amazing how gratifying that line can be.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Yah, but that "you can go home now" line is the most important thing said out of anyones mouth that entire day. Its amazing how gratifying that line can be.

You also hear that line from Toof's mom, don't you?
🙂

 

[toofache32]

You also hear that line from Toof's mom, don't you?
🙂

Daaaaaaaaaaamn! No respect around here....

Gavin, why do your kids look suspiciously like me? 😱

 

[ItsGavinC]

Daaaaaaaaaaamn! No respect around here....

Gavin, why do your kids look suspiciously like me? 😱

Hmmm, your Mom told me that one day you'd start asking questions about your brothers and sisters. 😉

 

[OMFSdoc]

before we go off-topic, let me clarify the situation. Most 6-yr programs will give you 1 PGY in GS. But certain states (ex PA, MI) require 2 PGY to become licensed. So if you intend to practice in these states, you will need to complete one additional yr (after your integrated 6-yr omfs) of GS before you can be a licensed MD. Obviously, most oral surgeons won't bother and will just practice under their DDS license. In this situation, are they allowed to put MD after their names on business cards or advertisements, eventhough they are not licensed?

Also, does anyone know the regulation in Canada?

Thx for your help.

We are not talking about a JD or MBA and it's not the same. If you are a DMD, MD OMFS and want to advertise yourself as such, GET A MEDICAL AND DENTAL LICENSE. Otherwise, you are a pansy. If you are not going to get a medical license, don't get an MD, what's the point.

 

[Jediwendell]

Coming from an unlicensed (and never to be licensed) MD, I think you would just be opening yourself up to potential hassle. The medicolegal aspects of putting an MD on your sign or cards can really only be negative, particularly if something goes wrong with the patient. Plus, the public knows next to nothing about this stuff, so you are better off just avoiding it alltogether.

 

[esclavo]

Hmmm, your Mom told me that one day you'd start asking questions about your brothers and sisters. 😉

Holy Cow! Toof has walked into a nest of hornets...best abdominal work out I've had in a while.

 

[Dr. Dai Phan]

Hello,

It is such a shame that someone (and many I can tell you ) who went to Carribean and get the "MD" degree in a short time to put the MD,DDS in their bussiness cards although they NEVER have the intention to undergo post grad residency nor practice medicine. Then why should anyone want to do such a thing? It is like someone who went to dental school to get the DDS then resume the occupation as a farmer the moment he gets his diploma! It all comes down to:

1. "Implying" to the public that you are a licensed MD and thus will have more confidence from your patients than Dai Phan DDS,MS down the street.

2. Overcoming the "inferiory complex" that haunted them with only the DDS after their names. Now, they can tell the public that "I am a physician" specializing oral and maxillofacial surgery.

I am quite sure there are some who pursue residency in medicine after they get their MD degree and I have alot of respect for them. If I want to persue the practice of medicine, I may even consider these "quick" route ! But for ones who just WANT that MD after their names, then you know what I think (see number 1 and 2) is true. DP