Camps or programs for interpersonal/social/communication skills

[JamesMD]

Do you know of any camps or programs or classes or anything like that that develop interpersonal/social/communication skills for professionals such as M.D.'s, or for people who want to be M.D.'s?

UW-Madison's med school admissions website says that you be really good at all of these in order to even be considered for admission, so I'm really looking for ways to develop these things during my time as a pre-med rather than during med school through things like residencies, etc.

Thank you.

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[Torr]

Sdn

 

[Wolfman89]

Sdn

 

[apumic]

Do you know of any camps or programs or classes or anything like that that develop interpersonal/social/communication skills for professionals such as M.D.'s, or for people who want to be M.D.'s?

UW-Madison's med school admissions website says that you be really good at all of these in order to even be considered for admission, so I'm really looking for ways to develop these things during my time as a pre-med rather than during med school through things like residencies, etc.

Thank you.

Get involved in things. Don't be a "pre-med." Be human. Have fun. Umm... really, these things are all just basic aspects of developing and maturing. You can't really force them. Developing them requires practice and life experience. Go out and enjoy life. Enjoy your time in college. Go to parties; drink moderately when you're of age; date; etc. There's really not that much to it. Just live life.

 

[JamesMD]

Get involved in things. Don't be a "pre-med." Be human. Have fun. Umm... really, these things are all just basic aspects of developing and maturing. You can't really force them. Developing them requires practice and life experience. Go out and enjoy life. Enjoy your time in college. Go to parties; drink moderately when you're of age; date; etc. There's really not that much to it. Just live life.

I wish it were that simple, but the thing I wasn't sure if I needed to mention or not is that I suffer from some paranoia. (It's a diagnosis by my doctor, not something I came up with myself.) It's kind of debilitating socially. I'm 24 and I don't really have any healthy relationships with anyone. I've JUST started college as an undergrad. I got accepted at UPenn after high school for pre-med when I was 18 but I didn't go.

So is there anything for that then? Like camps/programs or classes?

I'm a smart guy, it's just the social thing. I really want to be a doctor and I don't want the social thing to prevent me from doing becoming one.

Thanks again.

 

[Wolfman89]

I wish it were that simple, but the thing I wasn't sure if I needed to mention or not is that I suffer from some paranoia. (It's a diagnosis by my doctor, not something I came up with myself.) It's kind of debilitating socially. I'm 24 and I don't really have any healthy relationships with anyone. I've JUST started college as an undergrad. I got accepted at UPenn after high school for pre-med when I was 18 but I didn't go.

So is there anything for that then? Like camps/programs or classes?

I'm a smart guy, it's just the social thing. I really want to be a doctor and I don't want the social thing to prevent me from doing becoming one.

Thanks again.

Honestly, I am not sure. You could always work with your mental health professional on this. Or they could be the one to ask about what types of services are available.

 

[apumic]

I wish it were that simple, but the thing I wasn't sure if I needed to mention or not is that I suffer from some paranoia. (It's a diagnosis by my doctor, not something I came up with myself.) It's kind of debilitating socially. I'm 24 and I don't really have any healthy relationships with anyone. I've JUST started college as an undergrad. I got accepted at UPenn after high school for pre-med when I was 18 but I didn't go.

So is there anything for that then? Like camps/programs or classes?

I'm a smart guy, it's just the social thing. I really want to be a doctor and I don't want the social thing to prevent me from doing becoming one.

Thanks again.

You and your therapist probably need to have a frank and open conversation about this. Does your therapist think this is a viable career path for you? If you have this much difficulty establishing relationships at age 24, what is your overall prognosis like? Do medications help? (Are you compliant with medical and psychosocial therapies prescribed to you?)

If you have not learned to handle your paranoia at this stage in your life, it seems somewhat unlikely you're going to completely change that in the future (to be honest, from the perspective of someone who works with mental health patients regularly).

When you say your dx is "paranoia" do you mean Paranoid Schizophrenia or Paranoid Personality d/o (Paranoid PD or PPD)? This sounds an awful lot like the latter from what you described. Paranoid PD, like most (all) PDs, has a generally poor prognosis. It is typically a lifelong chronic d/o that the person tends to be unaware of except when others point out its symptoms and which is somewhat self-feeding insofar as the person with it is unlikely to trust those attempting to relieve its symptoms. For instance, people with PPD tend to distrust medications, physicians, and even their own therapist and/or other mental health professionals. If you have PPD, it is fairly unlikely you will take this post to heart simply because you may see it as "attacking" you or distrust the things I am telling you.

James, one thing I would suggest for you is to make it a point to get treatment for your disorder and comply 110% with the treatment. Do everything your doc and therapist tell you to do. Participate fully in therapy w/o questioning it (at least at first) -- don't give yourself the chance to not trust others -- and take the medications as prescribed (once again, don't give yourself the chance to distrust the doc who prescribed the meds). Through therapy and meds, you may be able to overcome some of the difficulties your d/o causes you.

 

[JamesMD]

You and your therapist probably need to have a frank and open conversation about this. Does your therapist think this is a viable career path for you? If you have this much difficulty establishing relationships at age 24, what is your overall prognosis like? Do medications help? (Are you compliant with medical and psychosocial therapies prescribed to you?)

If you have not learned to handle your paranoia at this stage in your life, it seems somewhat unlikely you're going to completely change that in the future (to be honest, from the perspective of someone who works with mental health patients regularly).

When you say your dx is "paranoia" do you mean Paranoid Schizophrenia or Paranoid Personality d/o (Paranoid PD or PPD)? This sounds an awful lot like the latter from what you described. Paranoid PD, like most (all) PDs, has a generally poor prognosis. It is typically a lifelong chronic d/o that the person tends to be unaware of except when others point out its symptoms and which is somewhat self-feeding insofar as the person with it is unlikely to trust those attempting to relieve its symptoms. For instance, people with PPD tend to distrust medications, physicians, and even their own therapist and/or other mental health professionals. If you have PPD, it is fairly unlikely you will take this post to heart simply because you may see it as "attacking" you or distrust the things I am telling you.

I might have had those paranoid thoughts you mentioned in the past to a degree, but not really anymore - I'm very compliant with medication and therapy, and both are helping - the evidence being that it is now becoming clear to me that I have indeed been paranoid for many years in my past. (The diagnosis, though, is only about a year old.) The official diagnosis is actually schizophrenia, but it's not paranoid schizophrenia specifically, as I've never heard voices or hallucinated. The main effect on me of the schizophrenia, however, according to my doctor, is a "distortion in my thinking," which, again according to my doctor, simply means paranoia.

I've talked to my therapist about viable career paths, and she keeps saying that I can pretty much do what ever I want to, just that I need to work on the social thing. (Which has lead me to what I'm doing now - looking for programs and camps and such.) I have an appointment tomorrow with her and I plan on asking her to be more frank about my social/occupational prognosis if that's what she's been thinking she should actually begin doing. And my doctor has told me before that I'll never work, but then once I started college and told her I was getting a 4.0, she changed her mind about that and said that I will work because I "still have my intelligence." (She hasn't, however, given me any sort of special list of things paranoid people can do, or what ever, lol.)

So, I dunno...

 

[apumic]

I might have had those paranoid thoughts you mentioned in the past to a degree, but not really anymore - I'm very compliant with medication and therapy, and both are helping - the evidence being that it is now becoming clear to me that I have indeed been paranoid for many years in my past. (The diagnosis, though, is only about a year old.) The official diagnosis is actually schizophrenia, but it's not paranoid schizophrenia specifically, as I've never heard voices or hallucinated. The main effect on me of the schizophrenia, however, according to my doctor, is a "distortion in my thinking," which, again according to my doctor, simply means paranoia.

I've talked to my therapist about viable career paths, and she keeps saying that I can pretty much do what ever I want to, just that I need to work on the social thing. (Which has lead me to what I'm doing now - looking for programs and camps and such.) I have an appointment tomorrow with her and I plan on asking her to be more frank about my social/occupational prognosis if that's what she's been thinking she should actually begin doing. And my doctor has told me before that I'll never work, but then once I started college and told her I was getting a 4.0, she changed her mind about that and said that I will work because I "still have my intelligence." (She hasn't, however, given me any sort of special list of things paranoid people can do, or what ever, lol.)

So, I dunno...

Well, congrats on the improvement. I'm glad to hear you're being compliant with treatment. That's really 50% of the battle (probably more... and, honestly, it's the 50+% that tends to ruin people since w/o that foundation, everything else quickly crumbles). Schizophrenia itself only requires 2 of the following for dx:

• delusions
• hallucinations
• disorganized speech (e.g., frequent derailment or incoherence)
• grossly disorganized or catatonic beh
• negative symptoms, i.e., affective flattening, alogia, or avolition

If your speech shows disorganized patterns and the doc notices a significant lack of emotional response, for instance, that would qualify for criterion A of schizophrenia.

As for a list of possible careers from your doc -- I think that'd be difficult to put together since severity and individual responses to treatment and the disorder are going to play such a large role in this. You should also keep in mind that schizophrenia can be exacerbated by stress., which is quite likely (almost absolutely certain) to pop up quite frequently as a med student, resident, and physician. As one w/ this d/o, you will likely need to be extra vigilant when it comes to managing your stress effectively. You probably will have to learn when to just walk away and how to effectively communicate with your colleagues your need to step away for a bit. Some may be more or less accommodating to this requests.

 

[dbeast]

Hey James, congrats so far... I believe you can do it (but if not, there's always radiology!). This is just out of my own curiousity and not intended to sound pejorative, but what's the difference between being paranoid, as your doctor put it, and just being really really shy?

 

[kimzboyy]

Its a really useful book that helps with recognizing one's delusions. He does a great portrayal of the social factors that play a role in pushing people out of reality and into psychosis. Surround yourself with strong people and you can be safe.

 

[redsquareblack]

Toastmasters

 

[redsquareblack]

Well, congrats on the improvement. I'm glad to hear you're being compliant with treatment. That's really 50% of the battle (probably more... and, honestly, it's the 50+% that tends to ruin people since w/o that foundation, everything else quickly crumbles). Schizophrenia itself only requires 2 of the following for dx:

• delusions
• hallucinations
• disorganized speech (e.g., frequent derailment or incoherence)
• grossly disorganized or catatonic beh
• negative symptoms, i.e., affective flattening, alogia, or avolition

If your speech shows disorganized patterns and the doc notices a significant lack of emotional response, for instance, that would qualify for criterion A of schizophrenia.

As for a list of possible careers from your doc -- I think that'd be difficult to put together since severity and individual responses to treatment and the disorder are going to play such a large role in this. You should also keep in mind that schizophrenia can be exacerbated by stress., which is quite likely (almost absolutely certain) to pop up quite frequently as a med student, resident, and physician. As one w/ this d/o, you will likely need to be extra vigilant when it comes to managing your stress effectively. You probably will have to learn when to just walk away and how to effectively communicate with your colleagues your need to step away for a bit. Some may be more or less accommodating to this requests.

You stayed at a Holiday Inn, didn't you?

 

[texahn]

like you can go outside and talk to strangers thats kind of a program

 

[apumic]

Hey James, congrats so far... I believe you can do it (but if not, there's always radiology!). This is just out of my own curiousity and not intended to sound pejorative, but what's the difference between being paranoid, as your doctor put it, and just being really really shy?

I wouldn't be surprised if they had similar etiologies; however, shyness probably develops out of a lack of confidence or heavy uncertainty about others. Paranoid schizophrenia appears to have some very significant neurological markers (e.g., enlarged ventricles, overabundance of dopamine, etc.). In terms of symptoms, paranoid schizophrenics tend to have marked mistrust in others to the point of delusions about them and tend to have hallucinations and delusions that consume their lives. From OP's description, I'm not so sure paranoid schizophrenia entirely fits, though. Some of the criteria appear to be missing, but this could also be simply the perspective of the OP. I would have to assume the psych that diagnosed the OP saw something that fulfilled those criteria.

 

[Wermz]

Join the marines.

 

[CardiacIntensivist]

It's called a bar.

 

[Naquadria]

OP: Please don't take offense to my suggustion but while I have never heard of a camp for people in your specific situation (not that I have looked into it)... I do know their are camps for people with Asperger's (a type of high functioning autism). Aperger's patients very typically struggle with normal social development and interaction and part of these camps is geared toward overcoming that obstacle. You are a little older than their top age range but you might be able to call and work something out. I included the link just in case you are interested...

http://www.talismancamps.com/

Also regardless of your religious beliefs have you ever considered joining a church group? If you can find the right one many people will be tolerant and accepting of your social difficulties and help you work through them. Not to mention at my church at least, there are youth who have grown up rather isolated from outside culture and struggle in social situations themselves. If you could find a place like this you could all grow together and make a few friends along the the way.

Best of luck!

 

[JamesMD]

I wouldn't be surprised if they had similar etiologies; however, shyness probably develops out of a lack of confidence or heavy uncertainty about others. Paranoid schizophrenia appears to have some very significant neurological markers (e.g., enlarged ventricles, overabundance of dopamine, etc.). In terms of symptoms, paranoid schizophrenics tend to have marked mistrust in others to the point of delusions about them and tend to have hallucinations and delusions that consume their lives. From OP's description, I'm not so sure paranoid schizophrenia entirely fits, though. Some of the criteria appear to be missing, but this could also be simply the perspective of the OP. I would have to assume the psych that diagnosed the OP saw something that fulfilled those criteria.

I'm sure my doc did see something. My emotional range is limited, which fulfills the blunt affect criteria, and then there was something along the lines of delusion that still hasn't gone away, although it's nothing bizarre at all, so there's the second criteria. Still getting a second opinion next month, though, from another doc.

Talked to therapist about everything today and she said school organizations like clubs, interpersonal skills "For Dummies" books, expanding comfort zone, etc. Unsure about where the professional programs or camps are, so still wondering about that.

Thanks for your guys' help and suggestions and all the best wishes. Hopefully everything works out.

 

[NickNaylor]

I know a lot of people recommend some club called... The Toast Club? Something like that? They basically meet regularly and the whole point is to improve interpersonal skills. If you live in a reasonably large area there's probably a local group you can attend.

 

[pinkynotbrain]

I know a lot of people recommend some club called... The Toast Club? Something like that? They basically meet regularly and the whole point is to improve interpersonal skills. If you live in a reasonably large area there's probably a local group you can attend.

It's called Toastmasters. It's more for speaking and leadership skills, but it would likely be a welcoming, judgment-light environment to start working on your basic social interactions as well.

 

[BiopsychStudent]

Its definitely something you'll want to address with your therapist as others have said, given your diagnosis. But as you're just beginning university and considering the premedical path there's definitely time for you to develop these skills... campus activities, or any volunteering which puts you in contact with others on a regular basis -- things you'll need to do anyway to gain an acceptance -- will likely help make you more comfortable with social interactions.

 

[Evidence Based]

There's been some good advice on this thread, and I second (third?) the recommendation for Toastmasters. You might also want to see if you could get yourself into some sort of support group or group therapy for people with mental illness. Check in with your University's counseling center, or with larger organizations like the National Alliance for Mental Illness (NAMI). A group might be a great way to learn some interpersonal skills, while interacting with others who have similar issues to what you're dealing with. I know many people find groups extremely helpful for this kind of thing, as they often teach you certain ways to interact while in group situations.
Best of luck.

 

[BushidoBrown]

Get a job in retail.

 

[BAMF]

=You might also want to see if you could get yourself into some sort of support group or group therapy for people with mental illness. Check in with your University's counseling center, or with larger organizations like the National Alliance for Mental Illness (NAMI). A group might be a great way to learn some interpersonal skills, while interacting with others who have similar issues to what you're dealing with. I know many people find groups extremely helpful for this kind of thing, as they often teach you certain ways to interact while in group situations.
Best of luck.

Exactly what I was going to say. See if there are any support groups on campus or in the area, because it's a great chance to relate with other people in a discussion-based setting with no pressure. Plus they're all going through the same thing as you, which hopefully makes it easier. A student organization also helps a lot. I was involved with a mental health student club and it was a great way to help me bolster my communication skills.

 

[MasonPrehealth]

Speech and debate summer camps exist for high school and probably also exist for college teams.

 

[pinkynotbrain]

Speech and debate summer camps exist for high school and probably also exist for college teams.

I was briefly on the speech/debate team in high school, and one of these camps would be absolutely the wrong place. HS and college debate are stylized - it is not so much a debate as a recitation of a pre-planned argument, followed by whatever evidence-based rebuttal you can throw together in 30 seconds, all spoken at 300 words per minute. From my friends' experience, debate camps teach you no interpersonal skills at all. Instead, they teach argument structure, argument response, evidence tracking, memorization, and lighting-speed speech. What you're looking for doesn't sound anything like this...

 

[cowme]

If your lack of social skills is due to residual effects of your schizophrenia, you need to get this under control first. A social bootcamp will do nothing until your problem is fixed. I don't know the extent of your disease, but I think you could be putting patients at a huge risk if you are still having thoughts of paranoia and delusions.

 

[dolcissimo]

Most of these suggestions sound pretty reasonable. They're low-pressure with almost no consequences. However, if they still sound daunting, or you get nervous thinking about them, or you just want some kind of guide to help you reflect on socializing, I recommend looking through the Do It Yourself / Self-Help section of your library. There are many books with tips for overcoming social anxiety that might give you a good jump start. They might even confirm what you already know and help boost your confidence.