Can a 518-520 MCAT hold you back?

[aluckyguy]

A 518-520 MCAT (37 on the old scale, 98%ile) is a really great score, no doubt. That said, for some top 20 schools, this is around the median for accepted applicants. Furthermore, private schools consider competitiveness/rigor/prestige of your undergraduate school as a significant admission criteria. I attend an unknown public undergraduate school, and I know for a fact that no student from my school has ever gotten an interview invite at the Penn/Harvard/Stanford level of school. Several students from our school have gotten scores in the 36-37 range, but I also know that there hasn't been anyone from our school who has scored in the 99%ile on the MCAT or above. I'm trying to understand what might be holding students from our school back in the application process to top schools, even though their MCATs are right at the median for these schools and their GPAs are usually higher than the admitted average. Is it possible that, for applicants from lesser-known schools, a 37 MCAT could be too low?

I know that a lot of factors go into the medical school admissions process besides the numbers, but I find it hard to believe that no one from my medium-sized school has ever gotten an interview invite to these schools. I can't prove it, but I feel like at least some students from our school must have had ECs that, at least on paper, were up to par for top schools. Assuming that their ECs are up to par, do students from lesser-known schools need to exceed the median accepted ranges for GPA and MCAT to have a good shot at top private schools?

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[Frogger27]

How do you know that no one from your school has ever gotten an interview at these schools? Do you/your advisor know everyone who has ever graduated from your school?

A 518-520 is not the limiting factor, it can get you into any school in the country. Period.

 

[cactusman]

Being around the median can't hold you back from a school. If your college is holding you back significantly, that's kind of a different question. If you had a 4.0 GPA and a 498 on the MCAT, the GPA is not preventing you from getting into an MD school.

 

[WedgeDawg]

If you have a 518-520, the reason you don't get a top 5-10 interview isn't because of your mcat score

 

[aluckyguy]

How do you know that no one from your school has ever gotten an interview at these schools? Do you/your advisor know everyone who has ever graduated from your school?

A 518-520 is not the limiting factor, it can get you into any school in the country. Period.

I prepared a school list for my premed advisor that included some of these top schools, and I was informed that no one from our school has gotten invites from roughly the Top 5 schools. I wasn't told not to apply to them at all, but I was told to pick a less top-heavy list. I made a list using WedgeDawgs Applicant Rating system, and while I know that people tend to overrate themselves on there, I think I was solidly in the S range. I'm not sure whether to lower my expectations, or just stick to the system's recommendations.

 

[efle]

As Wedgie said, if people are not getting love from the top schools, it is likely because of small sample size or not having the expected ECs (read: RESEARCH). It is not because you need better than a 37 to counteract an unknown alma mater.

 

[efle]

I prepared a school list for my premed advisor that included some of these top schools, and I was informed that no one from our school has gotten invites from roughly the Top 5 schools. I wasn't told not to apply to them at all, but I was told to pick a less top-heavy list. I made a list using WedgeDawgs Applicant Rating system, and while I know that people tend to overrate themselves on there, I think I was solidly in the S range. I'm not sure whether to lower my expectations, or just stick to the system's recommendations.

So apply to the top 5-10 (plus broadly to a bunch more ofc)

 

[aldol16]

No one ever? That's surprising. If it's not a new school and students are actually applying to top five schools from your school each year, this is surprising indeed. Does your school have opportunities to gain experiences that are typical of that of applicants to those top five schools? For instance, research, community service, etc.

 

[Frogger27]

I prepared a school list for my premed advisor that included some of these top schools, and I was informed that no one from our school has gotten invites from roughly the Top 5 schools. I wasn't told not to apply to them at all, but I was told to pick a less top-heavy list. I made a list using WedgeDawgs Applicant Rating system, and while I know that people tend to overrate themselves on there, I think I was solidly in the S range. I'm not sure whether to lower my expectations, or just stick to the system's recommendations.

What does your research look like? Anything that has been presented or published?

 

[tjo422]

This actually doesn't shock me, but I wouldn't let it hold you back. I was lucky enough to be accepted at a Top 5, and after the fact I got a congrats email from a student that came out of my undergrad. She graduated 6 years ago and she said that it was rare that someone from our undergrad even gets interviewed, let alone accepted. I went to a smaller private school. Solidly mid-tier, well known in the area.

 

[aluckyguy]

What does your research look like? Anything that has been presented or published?

I currently have one poster presentation within my school's department and I am on the verge of a 2nd author publication and a 1st author review paper, both of which are ready for submission. I know that's still a long way from "having" publications, but I feel I'm on the right track.

Does your school have opportunities to gain experiences that are typical of that of applicants to those top five schools? For instance, research, community service, etc.

Yes, definitely. I'm at a research university with good opportunities for students. Many of my premed friends are doing research, if not here, then at the medical school nearby. The university is in the largest city in our state and there are plenty of volunteer and clinical service opportunities. That's the main reason why I thought the MCAT might be the deciding factor here, because there's no obvious reason why there'd be a lack of success to the research powerhouses, other than stats. Our GPAs seem inflated and I've been led to believe that no one here has gotten a 99th%ile and above, so I thought that might be the issue.

 

[narla_hotep]

I literally thought this was a joke thread till I clicked on it... Like others have said, if you and/or others at your school don't get a high prestige interview with that MCAT score, it's not the MCAT score holding you back. Probably EC's, research, clinical exp, something sounded funny in your recommendation letters or personal statement... Seriously, I'd know people who'd kill for that MCAT score

 

[aaronrodgers]

Did anyone of them win a superbowl championship for an EC? That would definitely be top 10 material.

-Superbowl 52 MVP

 

[aluckyguy]

Did anyone of them win a superbowl championship for an EC? That would definitely be top 10 material.

-Superbowl 52 MVP

I'll ask my premed advisor.

 

[aluckyguy]

I'll ask my premed advisor.

He said no.

 

[aldol16]

Yes, definitely. I'm at a research university with good opportunities for students. Many of my premed friends are doing research, if not here, then at the medical school nearby. The university is in the largest city in our state and there are plenty of volunteer and clinical service opportunities. That's the main reason why I thought the MCAT might be the deciding factor here, because there's no obvious reason why there'd be a lack of success to the research powerhouses, other than stats. Our GPAs seem inflated and I've been led to believe that no one here has gotten a 99th%ile and above, so I thought that might be the issue.

Well, that's interesting. Do you have a ballpark estimate of how many students from your school apply to those top five schools? It might end up being self-selection and a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[pioneer22]

How is GPA? Academics can only get you so far.

Top Med schools want top Med applicants, and in the end top applicants come from all undergrads.

 

[aluckyguy]

Well, that's interesting. Do you have a ballpark estimate of how many students from your school apply to those top five schools? It might end up being self-selection and a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It can't be more than 1 or 2 students a year who would be advised to apply to top 5s from my school, so if not the stats (it seems like the consensus here is that it's not), it's most likely a small sample size thing.

My biggest worry was that people from my school would have to REALLY jump off the page, even compared to average top 5 school accepted students, to be interviewed. If that were the case, I'd set my sights a lot lower. Like, if I would have to become an Olympic Athlete or a Rhodes Scholar to get an interview at a top 5 school, then I'd rather spend the fees on schools that are willing to give me an interview.

How is GPA? Academics can only get you so far.

Top Med schools want top Med applicants, and in the end top applicants come from all undergrads.

My GPA is 3.95+ in an engineering major, but I honestly feel like that's not that impressive coming from a non-flagship state school. I know that comes off as really neurotic, but I know the amount of work that some of my friends have to put in to get a 3.7 at a top-caliber school and it makes the number seem pretty hollow in comparison.

 

[Endoxifen]

My GPA is 3.95+ in an engineering major, but I honestly feel like that's not that impressive coming from a non-flagship state school. I know that comes off as really neurotic, but I know the amount of work that some of my friends have to put in to get a 3.7 at a top-caliber school and it makes the number seem pretty hollow in comparison.

Ehh, it's all relative.

 

[dr.Breezy]

It can't be more than 1 or 2 students a year who would be advised to apply to top 5s from my school, so if not the numbers (it seems like the consensus here is that it's not), it's most likely a small sample size thing.

My biggest worry was that people from my school would have to REALLY jump off the page, even compared to average top 5 school accepted students, to be interviewed. If that were the case, I'd set my sights a lot lower. Like, if I would have to become an Olympic Athlete or a Rhodes Scholar to get an interview at a top 5 school, then I'd rather spend the fees on schools that are willing to give me an interview.



My GPA is 3.95+ in an engineering major, but I honestly feel like that's not that impressive coming from a non-flagship state school. I know that comes off as really neurotic, but I know the amount of work that some of my friends have to put in to get a 3.7 at a top-caliber school and it makes the number seem pretty hollow in comparison.

That's why the mcat is the great equalizer. If you got a 3.95 gpa with a top percentile MCAT, then it just further cements your academic prowess no matter you're undergrad.


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[Lord Kek]

Anything below a 528 and 4.0 will hold you back from Zlatko School of Medicine.

 

[Dagrimsta1]

How tf do people ask questions like these? Life as an ad com must be tough

 

[efle]

Wait OP do you have a 37 already or just asking hypothetically for the future? If you already have a 37 and a 3.95-4.0 GPA too, you seriously don't need to worry at all about academic side of application. Just need baller ECs

 

[libertyyne]

This MCAT is sufficient for anyplace in the country.
1. If it is your only MCAT .
2. If your gpa is >3.7
3. if you dont have many red flags.

 

[aluckyguy]

Wait OP do you have a 37 already or just asking hypothetically for the future? If you already have a 37 and a 3.95-4.0 GPA too, you seriously don't need to worry at all about academic side of application. Just need baller ECs

Yeah, I've taken it already. That's sort of a relief, not to have to worry about the academic part.

Will schools look past the undergrad prestige factor when considering ECs and my application as a whole? Is the undergrad factor limited to just the purely academic side of the application?


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[pioneer22]

Yeah, I've taken it already. That's sort of a relief, not to have to worry about the academic part.

Will schools look past the undergrad prestige factor when considering ECs and my application as a whole? Is the undergrad factor limited to just the purely academic side of the application?


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YES. You are starting to really come off as neurotic. You have a 3.95+ GPA as engineering major, and a 518+ on the MCAT. Get some EC's and life experience, and you have no reason to not get interest from every top school. Enough of the 'prestige' complaint—you have the academic track record so that any adcom member will overlook your college.

 

[Lucca]

Yeah, I've taken it already. That's sort of a relief, not to have to worry about the academic part.

Will schools look past the undergrad prestige factor when considering ECs and my application as a whole? Is the undergrad factor limited to just the purely academic side of the application?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Undergrad prestige will not make or break an application that is stellar in every other category. With sufficient clinical experience + productive research your app will be competitive for the top schools.

 

[efle]

Will schools look past the undergrad prestige factor when considering ECs and my application as a whole?

Yes, there were always a couple people from state programs or colleges I'd never heard of at interview days even in the top 5-10. For top programs that post info about their class and alma maters (like Yale) you can see there are people not from top undergrads sprinkled in there. For example just on the first couple pages I see Texas Tech and U Nebraska.

 

[dr.Breezy]

If you keep thinking your 37 is not enough I might just have to reach through the internet and your screen and slap some sense into you


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[battie]

Went to a 2,000 student state college in Nebraska and a pre-med was accepted to a top 5 school two years ago. People from no-name schools definitely get in. This kid was an awesome student and played the game well.

 

[AnotherLawyer]

What about the opposite problem of getting rejected due to yield protection? I'm only applying in TX and neither UTSW nor Baylor are my top choices. I'm afraid with a 520+ MCAT and some of the schools not even having secondaries, I'll have no way to show I am sincerely interested in attending.

I know this is a good problem to have so I should stop whining. I also know that concern over yield protection may very well be overstated. So I apologize in advance if my post sounds crazy.

 

[Dr. Stalker]

518-520? Apply carib OP.

 

[aldol16]

It can't be more than 1 or 2 students a year who would be advised to apply to top 5s from my school, so if not the stats (it seems like the consensus here is that it's not), it's most likely a small sample size thing.

My biggest worry was that people from my school would have to REALLY jump off the page, even compared to average top 5 school accepted students, to be interviewed. If that were the case, I'd set my sights a lot lower. Like, if I would have to become an Olympic Athlete or a Rhodes Scholar to get an interview at a top 5 school, then I'd rather spend the fees on schools that are willing to give me an interview.

Well if it's only 1 or 2 a year and your adviser has been there, say, even 10 years, that's 20 students max who have applied to those schools. Anybody has to jump off the page to get interviewed at those schools - although I do think that it's easier coming from a top school.

 

[mwsapphire]

Being around the median can't hold you back from a school. If your college is holding you back significantly, that's kind of a different question. If you had a 4.0 GPA and a 498 on the MCAT, the GPA is not preventing you from getting into an MD school.

I think a good MCAT score is supposed to prevent your college from holding you back.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

^^^^^^^ yup, not even the Wash Us of the world would care about your undergrad with that MCAT.

 

[mwsapphire]

Your siggg omg.
And a 498 is probably not the MCAT you're trying to refer to

 

[aluckyguy]

From LizzyM:

There are state schools that are academic powerhouses (aka "the public Ivies") . When you say "well-known" school what you may mean is a school that is difficult to get into. There are also some relatively unknown schools that are hard to get into. They might not be household names (Williams is one that comes to mind) but they are known in adcom circles as expeptionally good schools. Then there are those "well-known" schools that are known best not for their academics but for sports (see how many get NCAA bids this afternoon...)

If what you mean by "people who can't go to well-known schools" you mean those who go to schools that are easy to get into and schools that are known for not being very academically demanding (these can be state schools or private), we look for someone who has an excellent gpa (bright fish in a pond without much competition) and an MCAT that is equal or better to the class average. Having an excellent MCAT shows that there isn't a "big fish" thing going on but that head to head with the students from the "big-name" schools, this student is in the same league.

You *will* be compared with other Ivy grads. The 3.x from the Ivy is the first thing an adcom member will notice. The second thing is the MCAT. Then the post-bach courses. Your essay will need to address how you overcame whatever was going on during your undergrad years (or what you were doing that made academics a low priority --- sports, musical performance, journalism etc) that left you with a sub-par gpa.

A 37 is lower than the accepted median at Penn and WUSTL. Are we sure that couldn't at least be contributing to the issue, even if it doesn't explain it totally?

I feel like we can agree a 520 is borderline for these schools coming from a no name undergrad.

 

[libertyyne]

From LizzyM:



A 37 is lower than the accepted median at Penn and WUSTL. Are we sure that couldn't at least be contributing to the issue, even if it doesn't explain it totally?

lol. I had to open up MSAR to confirm because that sounded absurd.

 

[efle]

A 37 is lower than the accepted median at Penn and WUSTL. Are we sure that couldn't at least be contributing to the issue, even if it doesn't explain it totally?

You said people from your school don't even get interview invites at Penn/WashU class schools. Their accepted and matriculant medians might be ~520-521 but I assure you a 37 would never have prevented someone from getting interviewed. They interview 3-3.5x as many as they admit.

 

[sealfriendo]

I'd like to see if anyone thinks this has changed with the new 521's and the increasing MCATs at top schools.

 

[Gurby]

I'd like to see if anyone thinks this has changed with the new 521's and the increasing MCATs at top schools.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I'd like to see if anyone thinks this has changed with the new 521's and the increasing MCATs at top schools.

My friends with top acceptances and <518 MCATs would say no.

 

[deleted938090]

What about the opposite problem of getting rejected due to yield protection? I'm only applying in TX and neither UTSW nor Baylor are my top choices. I'm afraid with a 520+ MCAT and some of the schools not even having secondaries, I'll have no way to show I am sincerely interested in attending.

I know this is a good problem to have so I should stop whining. I also know that concern over yield protection may very well be overstated. So I apologize in advance if my post sounds crazy.

Depends on how far up the 520 you're talking about. At around 526/7+/~4.0, they don't seem to invite you to interview unless you express a reason to attend (among the 5 ppl I talked to who only got T10 II's). At the lower end of 520 you're fair game to interview anywhere. So yes, there can be a detriment in that places you're interested to attend may see you as using them as backup, but you could send them a letter of intent if they are your top choice. The idea of perhaps intentionally missing more questions to get a score around 523 has certainly crossed people's minds...
Also in response to the OP's question - no, 518-520 is the ideal MCAT score to be competitive anywhere.