Can a low tier MD student with average clinical grades match general surgery?

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Just got my first clerkship grade back and it was a pass. I honored the evaluations part but got a pass on the shelf because I guess I didn’t study hard enough. Is general surgery off the table now without a prelim year?

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Just got my first clerkship grade back and it was a pass. I honored the evaluations part but got a pass on the shelf because I guess I didn’t study hard enough. Is general surgery off the table now without a prelim year?
Is your grading system F/P/HP/H?
Was this the surgery clerkship?
 
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Yes it is F/P/HP/H but the way that they do it is take your lowest component. So you can honor evals but if you pass the shelf then your final is pass. It was one of IM/Peds/FM
 
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I still can’t believe it because usually I’m a good exam taker. I feel like all my work on the clerkship and first two years is a waste. I’m hoping to match a community program
 
Yes you can still match gen surg. Just do better going forward, and do whatever you can to honor surgery
 
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Any idea how your school grades in general? Some places have a lot of people getting honors in a bunch of rotations while some schools seem to only reserve it for a few regardless.
 
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Any idea how your school grades in general? Some places have a lot of people getting honors in a bunch of rotations while some schools seem to only reserve it for a few regardless.
I would imagine that it’s somewhat difficult because not only do you need to average 4/5+ on evals, you also need to get an 85th percentile on the shelf. I was hoping for high pass but I barely missed on the shelf. It’s probably 10% honors 60% high pass 30% pass, I would need to check the histograms go.

In terms of other things, research is okay. 3 pubs, 2 first author 1 in surgery, about 10 other items. I know some of the surgery faculty and have done a bit of research but wouldn’t say I have a great relationship with any of them yet

I just don’t really know what went wrong. On the previous NBME forms I was averaging about 80th percentile.
 
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You're just starting out. If it was family med, I know back when I was going through, FM was ROUGH to start out on as a first rotation since the shelf was tough. Now you know what to expect from shelf exams and will be more comfortable with the next one. I think Peds also wasn't a particularly easy shelf iirc.

My clerkships were graded. I think I got a B or something on a rotation and I still made it into a competitive specialty. You are not sunk.
 
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Could I still ask my attending for an LOR if I passed the rotation because he gave really good comments but I’m not sure if he will now emphasize the fact that I passed only. I know I need 3 surgery letters but I would like to get one in case I need a backup specialty
 
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Is general surgery that much more competitive than IM? I thought an average MD with a hard work ethic and likable personality could match somewhere without much difficulty
 
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Is general surgery that much more competitive than IM? I thought an average MD with a hard work ethic and likable personality could match somewhere without much difficulty
I go to a very low regarded MD school though. It’s not extremely uncommon for GS applicants to go unmatched probably similar to a DO school.

Community GS probably similar to mid tier academic IM if I had to wager a guess
 
I go to a very low regarded MD school though. It’s not extremely uncommon for GS applicants to go unmatched probably similar to a DO school.

Community GS probably similar to mid tier academic IM if I had to wager a guess
Contact the successful new grads from your school for tips. Even if they are not physically present, the school is likely to have contact information and their permission.
 
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Contact the successful new grads from your school for tips. Even if they are not physically present, the school is likely to have contact information and their permission.
Thank you I will do this.

Worst case, is prelim surgery an okay backup option or would I be unlikely to get a spot in the following match. I also enjoy neurology but not as much. So is prelim surgery or neurology a better backup? I’m guessing anesthesia is off the table now given it’s competitiveness.

In other words, is prelim surgery still a dead end?
 
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Thank you I will do this.

Worst case, is prelim surgery an okay backup option or would I be unlikely to get a spot in the following match. I also enjoy neurology but not as much. So is prelim surgery or neurology a better backup? I’m guessing anesthesia is off the table now given it’s competitiveness.

In other words, is prelim surgery still a dead end?
It is too soon to presume anything.
As more grades, scores, peer and mentor advice become available, you can adjust plans and goals.
 
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It is too soon to presume anything.
As more grades, scores, peer and mentor advice becomes available, you can adjust plans and goals.
Okay thank you. I guess my next question would be, is it possible to honor OBGYN as a male medical student? I’ve heard from upperclassmen that it’s much harder. If so, is there any advice that you would give in regards to being helpful when many patients don’t want you there. That’s my next rotation and I’m somewhat concerned that even if I manage to do better on the shelf, clinical evals might hold me back. How bad would it look to go pass back to back, assuming my other five rotations go better
 
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Yes it's possible. Of course it is. Unless things have changed a lot, it's not 'many' patients. It will be a few for sure, but everyone knows/expects this sort of thing. Get in a mindset that you are going to learn and do your best opposed to assuming you might just pass the rotation.

You're giving off unnecessary anxiety a bit. I know you are at a tough transition in your educational career, but you'll do fine. The fact that you're showing this much concern tells us that you care enough to do what you have to do. Just study, know the line of being helpful/knowledgeable vs overstepping, learn about your patients/cases before you see them - and learn from them during/afterward, and get better every day.

If you're going for surgery, the 'learn before you see the case/patient' is particularly important. When you get to that rotation, do not scrub into a case without knowing why you are there for the patient, know the condition, anatomy, etc. The same applies to OB/Gyn obviously.
 
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Okay thank you. I guess my next question would be, is it possible to honor OBGYN as a male medical student? I’ve heard from upperclassmen that it’s much harder. If so, is there any advice that you would give in regards to being helpful when many patients don’t want you there. That’s my next rotation and I’m somewhat concerned that even if I manage to do better on the shelf, clinical evals might hold me back. How bad would it look to go pass back to back, assuming my other five rotations go better
My students get support and advice from our residents, especially the men.
 
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My students get support and advice from our residents, especially the men.
Are there any specific procedures/exams that you would review before the first day. It will be a mix of outpatient and inpatient. Thanks again for your advice
 
I’m not trying to crap on the specialty (I want to do FM), but is general surgery really that competitive??

My understanding was that if you went to a US MD school, got good letters, and passed everything you would match general surgery somewhere. But maybe times are changing…..
 
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I’m not trying to crap on the specialty (I want to do FM), but is general surgery really that competitive??

My understanding was that if you went to a US MD school, got good letters, and passed everything you would match general surgery somewhere. But maybe times are changing…..
I think that from Lower regarded schools it can still be tough. Most of our matches are to lower academic and community programs
 
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Congratulations on honoring the evaluations! A pass is still an achievement. General surgery isn't necessarily off the table, but focusing on doing well in future rotations and shelf exams can strengthen your application. Consider seeking advice from mentors or advisors on how to improve and demonstrate your commitment. Keep pushing forward!
Is this AI lol. You replied twice with basically the same thing
 
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I’m not trying to crap on the specialty (I want to do FM), but is general surgery really that competitive??

My understanding was that if you went to a US MD school, got good letters, and passed everything you would match general surgery somewhere. But maybe times are changing…..
Gen surg is getting more and more competitive, at least for the more academic/research programs.

Anecdotally, I go to a "high tier" school and we have had people fail to match gen surg for the past two years...
 
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Try to get HP and H for the rest of your clinical rotations. I know you have a high MCAT so you have the potentilal to score a 265+ on S2. Get the LOR from your surgery rotation because you recieved a good review from him/her. Do 3 away Sub-I rotations and kick ass at programs that people from your school have matched to in the past. I think it is still too early to rule out surgery. GL.
 
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Gen surg is getting more and more competitive, at least for the more academic/research programs.

Anecdotally, I go to a "high tier" school and we have had people fail to match gen surg for the past two years...
It’s over

Did they apply community as well?

So what is my backup in your opinion? General surgery prelim or neuro
 
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Try to get HP and H for the rest of your clinical rotations. I know you have a high MCAT so you have the potentilal to score a 265+ on S2. Get the LOR from your surgery rotation because you recieved a good review from him/her. Do 3 away Sub-I rotations and kick ass at programs that people from your school have matched to in the past. I think it is still too early to rule out surgery. GL.
Thank you. This was not surgery but IM/FM/peds (being vague for the sake of anonymity). I just feel so defeated. Like how do I study for OBGYN this weekend knowing that I just did awful on a rotation that was be much easier for me to honor/hp than OB will. I proabably should just stop dating completely during rotations because I feel as if the rejection from that completely threw me off. Though even that’s not completely to blame because I did well on the NBME forms prior to the exam
 
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Thank you. This was not surgery but IM/FM/peds (being vague for the sake of anonymity). I just feel so defeated. Like how do I study for OBGYN this weekend knowing that I just did awful on a rotation that was be much easier for me to honor/hp than OB will. I proabably should just stop dating completely during rotations because I feel as if the rejection from that completely threw me off. Though even that’s not completely to blame because I did well on the NBME forms prior to the exam
I would stop dating if you feel like rejection and handling romantic/sexual personal relationships will take away your attention from doing your best during M3. I had almost all honors during M3, and my only HP was in a rotation where I had big fight with my partner the night before the shelf exam in a rotation where honors was required on the shelf to honor the rotation. The fight was about working too much and not spending enough time doing leisure things/dates. So you gotta be honest with yourself and with other people when dating in medicine. Unless the other person is in medicine, they will likely not understand as well.

edit: for your own sake, don't have to share here, but it does matter a little bit which of the 3 rotations the pass was in. peds/FM I think don't matter as much. If this was IM, then that's a bigger deal.

It’s over

Did they apply community as well?

So what is my backup in your opinion? General surgery prelim or neuro
I don't know much about the gen surg match landscape, but I'm assuming that people from my school would not apply to/target community programs.
 
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I’m not trying to crap on the specialty (I want to do FM), but is general surgery really that competitive??

My understanding was that if you went to a US MD school, got good letters, and passed everything you would match general surgery somewhere. But maybe times are changing…..
I know @DOVinciRobot stays up to date on this; wonder what his thoughts are
 
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Step 2 will be a much bigger player than this solitary clinical rotation. Make sure to do well on that and try your best to honor your surg rotation. You will be fine. Gen surg is not quite at the level where a a few Ps should induce panic for a MD student with out any glaring red flags.
 
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I know @DOVinciRobot stays up to date on this; wonder what his thoughts are
I’m not trying to crap on the specialty (I want to do FM), but is general surgery really that competitive??

My understanding was that if you went to a US MD school, got good letters, and passed everything you would match general surgery somewhere. But maybe times are changing…..

This is incorrect. General surgery is not like the surgical subs, but it is not a “pass everything and you’re in” specialty even for MD’s. You should be at least average to above average overall just to match (can still make up deficits with strengths in other areas).

Overall though OP I think you’ll be fine. Research and board scores matter far more than a P on a non-surgical rotation. I would even dare say it is irrelevant to your chances, as long as you don’t do it every rotation. Just change your studying up and then move on. If you think your school will hold you back then apply broadly when the time comes.
 
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Oh yeah if FM or Peds then not a big deal so long as this P doesn’t collect too many other friends along the way. IM matters a bit more just because it’s a score everyone looks at (we all know it’s a hard and in depth exam). Surgery also matters for the same reason, a little more if you want to be a surgeon.

Sounds like evals are solid which is good - that’s the hardest thing to teach. You obviously need to up the shelf prep game a bit so work on that for next time. Usually means start earlier in the rotation. My rule of thumb was get through 2 full question banks on that rotation’s material before shelf.

For me that was PreTest and Lange Q&A - probably much better stuff nowadays. I like UWorld as well but in my day it didn’t have many questions outside of IM; maybe that’s changed. They also had long question stems which took time to read. I could bang out 3-5 pre test questions in the time it took me to read a UWorld stem, so I saved World for later in the rotation.

Many reasons to struggle on shelf exams, but chiefly I think it’s not covering enough of the material. Doing all of a couple banks means you saw most everything you need to know at least once.
 
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Thank you everybody, it was not IM, so one of peds/fm

I think that this was a wake up call and I realize that I just didn’t put enough into the shelf. I have a short break before OB starts so I’m going to try to do one pass of UWorld before the rotation starts, hopefully allowing me to be somewhere in the 70 percentile range before starting.
 
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Coming from a mid-tier USMD, I can vouch that we have people match every year with extremely average grades, board scores, and minimal research, even without H in surgery. The people who have trouble matching at my institution are exclusively those with "red flags" or who are extremely geographically limited. I think people underestimate the number of people with red flags if you include preclinical failures, clerkship remediation, step failures, and other random things (e.g., professionalism issues, bad MSPE comments, unexplained gaps, etc...). It's probably close to 10-15%.

As for the shelf, how high do your scores need to be to honor (either raw score or percentile)? Shelf exams are pretty much about thoroughness and repeated exposure. Basically you want to pick a "comprehensive" resource (probably UWorld) and treat it like a textbook that contains everything you need to know for the shelf exam. You want to know the full details (epidemiology, risk factors, presentation, diagnostics, management, complications, and high-yield factoids) for every medium-yield disease (e.g., AFLP) and have an almost "fluent" understanding of the high yield diseases/scenarios (e.g., preeclampsia, HIV in pregnancy). Medium yield diseases usually present picture perfect with well-aligned risk factors, while high-yield diseases are often vague with inconsistent symptoms. Don't bother specifically going after low yield diseases (e.g., pemphigoid gestationis). Make an anki or two reminding you that it exists and move on.

Something I wish I had done earlier is go through UWorld with more focused blocks on a first pass (i.e., blocks of "breast" "pregnancy"). You'll get some questions where the topic gives away the answer, but you will see patterns and integrate much, much more effectively. Take an NBME mid-clerkship, finish UWorld with 1-2 weeks to go, and then start hammering through NBMEs, UWorld incorrect/marked, or AMBOSS questions. Don't try to do too much. UWorld + NBMEs + either incorrects or some AMBOSS is all you need. Remember it's about thoroughness and repeated exposure, not just repeated exposure. I know a lot of people who did UWorldx2 + AMBOSS + every NBME practice exam and still didn't score all that high because they only learned the surface level fact being tested, not the full disease behind the question. First pass is about being thorough. 2nd pass is about nailing the presentations and integrating the patterns. Listen to Divine Intervention the day before the exam.

Do all the above and I assure you that you'll score 85+ on every shelf. Good luck!
 
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Coming from a mid-tier USMD, I can vouch that we have people match every year with extremely average grades, board scores, and minimal research, even without H in surgery. The people who have trouble matching at my institution are exclusively those with "red flags" or who are extremely geographically limited. I think people underestimate the number of people with red flags if you include preclinical failures, clerkship remediation, step failures, and other random things (e.g., professionalism issues, bad MSPE comments, unexplained gaps, etc...). It's probably close to 10-15%.

As for the shelf, how high do your scores need to be to honor (either raw score or percentile)? Shelf exams are pretty much about thoroughness and repeated exposure. Basically you want to pick a "comprehensive" resource (probably UWorld) and treat it like a textbook that contains everything you need to know for the shelf exam. You want to know the full details (epidemiology, risk factors, presentation, diagnostics, management, complications, and high-yield factoids) for every medium-yield disease (e.g., AFLP) and have an almost "fluent" understanding of the high yield diseases/scenarios (e.g., preeclampsia, HIV in pregnancy). Medium yield diseases usually present picture perfect with well-aligned risk factors, while high-yield diseases are often vague with inconsistent symptoms. Don't bother specifically going after low yield diseases (e.g., pemphigoid gestationis). Make an anki or two reminding you that it exists and move on.

Something I wish I had done earlier is go through UWorld with more focused blocks on a first pass (i.e., blocks of "breast" "pregnancy"). You'll get some questions where the topic gives away the answer, but you will see patterns and integrate much, much more effectively. Take an NBME mid-clerkship, finish UWorld with 1-2 weeks to go, and then start hammering through NBMEs, UWorld incorrect/marked, or AMBOSS questions. Don't try to do too much. UWorld + NBMEs + either incorrects or some AMBOSS is all you need. Remember it's about thoroughness and repeated exposure, not just repeated exposure. I know a lot of people who did UWorldx2 + AMBOSS + every NBME practice exam and still didn't score all that high because they only learned the surface level fact being tested, not the full disease behind the question. First pass is about being thorough. 2nd pass is about nailing the presentations and integrating the patterns. Listen to Divine Intervention the day before the exam.

Do all the above and I assure you that you'll score 85+ on every shelf. Good luck!
Thank you!

So for this particular one we needed an 85th percentile for honors but the thing is that the distributions were so tight that you could literally only get 2-3 more questions wrong before your score automatically drops from high pass to pass. I think we need 65th percentile for high pass but on this exam the difference between 85th and 65th was a mere 2-3 questions. Don’t get me wrong, it’s definitely my fault for being distracted and not putting 110% into the shelf but I think that it’s somewhat ridiculous that the shelf and clinical assessments aren’t averaged. Is this common at most schools?
 
I think that it’s somewhat ridiculous that the shelf and clinical assessments aren’t averaged. Is this common at most schools?
The relative weight of shelf vs. clinical eval. varies by school
 
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Could I still ask my attending for an LOR if I passed the rotation because he gave really good comments but I’m not sure if he will now emphasize the fact that I passed only. I know I need 3 surgery letters but I would like to get one in case I need a backup specialty

Do not submit non-surgery letters unless it’s research.
 
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Do not submit non-surgery letters unless it’s research.
So I only have 8 weeks of surgery. Won’t that only give me like 3 attendings to choose from.

Should I maybe get one from her in case surg doesn’t work out and I need to dual apply to neurology/IM
 
So I only have 8 weeks of surgery. Won’t that only give me like 3 attendings to choose from.

Should I maybe get one from her in case surg doesn’t work out and I need to dual apply to neurology/IM

Do not submit non-surgery letters to surgery. Surgeons do not care what non-surgeons think of you, unless it is a significant association like a longterm research project.

You only have 8 weeks of surgery as an M3 but if you decide to do surgery you will need to do sub-Is and maybe aways and it is expected you will ask for letters during those rotations.

If you decide not to apply to surgery, do whatever is best for other specialties for other specialties. But do not send non-surgeon letters with surgery applications.
 
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Still very doable. N=1, but a guy from my school low passed (LP or near fail, whatever a school calls it) the IM rotation and had a terrible comment put in his MSPE letter about professionalism concerns, and he matched gen surg at a solid academic program. My impression, however, was that he was very smart and tested well. He simply had that bad mark and overcame it. Anyways, if it’s your first rotation of third year, you will do much better by the end due to the amount of sheer overlap between shelf exams.
 
So I only have 8 weeks of surgery. Won’t that only give me like 3 attendings to choose from.

Should I maybe get one from her in case surg doesn’t work out and I need to dual apply to neurology/IM
I agree 100% with the above, do not submit non-surgery letters to surgery. About as hard of a rule as it gets. Get letters on sub-I’s and aways as well, it is expected you will have 1 or 2 from those types of rotations.

Only caveat is for research mentors, they can write you letters and can be from any specialty, but that should be on top of at least 3 surgery letters.
 
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So I only have 8 weeks of surgery. Won’t that only give me like 3 attendings to choose from.

Should I maybe get one from her in case surg doesn’t work out and I need to dual apply to neurology/IM
Many people get 0 letters from their 3rd year clerkship. My understanding is that usually it's:

1) Chair/department letter
2) Sub-I letter
3) 3rd year clerkship letter OR additional sub-I letter
4) Optional additional sub-I or meaningful research mentor letter

Most people attempt to get 4-5 letters so that if one of the above falls through, you can still hit 3 letters from surgeons. While I think it's a little odd, the rule is definitely only letters from surgeons. Personally I think there are a lot of non-surgeons who would speak to my abilities as a clinician and overall productive and responsible human being more than surgeons I've worked with, if only because as a medical student you specifically take on a role with limited responsibility. However, the culture is the culture and the rules are the rules.
 
Yes it's possible. Of course it is. Unless things have changed a lot, it's not 'many' patients. It will be a few for sure, but everyone knows/expects this sort of thing. Get in a mindset that you are going to learn and do your best opposed to assuming you might just pass the rotation.

You're giving off unnecessary anxiety a bit. I know you are at a tough transition in your educational career, but you'll do fine. The fact that you're showing this much concern tells us that you care enough to do what you have to do. Just study, know the line of being helpful/knowledgeable vs overstepping, learn about your patients/cases before you see them - and learn from them during/afterward, and get better every day.

If you're going for surgery, the 'learn before you see the case/patient' is particularly important. When you get to that rotation, do not scrub into a case without knowing why you are there for the patient, know the condition, anatomy, etc. The same applies to OB/Gyn obviously.
My experience, as well as the many other of my male classmates, is “many patients” don’t want a male.
 
Many people get 0 letters from their 3rd year clerkship. My understanding is that usually it's:

1) Chair/department letter
2) Sub-I letter
3) 3rd year clerkship letter OR additional sub-I letter
4) Optional additional sub-I or meaningful research mentor letter

Most people attempt to get 4-5 letters so that if one of the above falls through, you can still hit 3 letters from surgeons. While I think it's a little odd, the rule is definitely only letters from surgeons. Personally I think there are a lot of non-surgeons who would speak to my abilities as a clinician and overall productive and responsible human being more than surgeons I've worked with, if only because as a medical student you specifically take on a role with limited responsibility. However, the culture is the culture and the rules are the rules.

Abilities as a clinician and work ethic are certainly things that can be found across all specialties. And most physicians could be taught the techniques of surgery - I often say I can teach almost anyone to sew in a circle. Surgeons are NOT somehow better or more special or more important than other physicians. But surgical decision making and thinking are not for everyone, and would be hard for other specialties to identify; I wouldn’t expect a surgeon to be able to identify specific traits necessary to make a student successful in peds or neurology or IM, etc.

Surgeons constantly deal with compressed timelines for decision-making both perioperatively and intraoperatively that may be difficult to appreciate for a non-surgeon. PCC and EM probably come closest but are still far different settings. I have no proof of this but it is my personal belief and observation that most surgical trainees who leave do so because they struggle to develop that kind of surgical thinking and decision-making. Even surgeons aren’t perfect at identifying which students have what it takes to develop into the kind of physician who can take that kind of pressure and make those kind of decisions on a regular basis. But certainly it would be very hard for a non-surgeon to judge that.

I want to be clear that I am not denigrating other specialties here. Certainly every other specialty has skills and traits necessary for success that may or may not overlap with surgery. But I’d never try to say I would be the best person to ascertain if a student would be successful in another specialty. But I have definitely tried to gently redirect a student who does not demonstrate the ability to develop surgical thinking. In the cases where the student has matched to a surgical specialty anyway, they have all changed specialties within 2 years.

But I imagine a letter from a surgeon might feel a little out of place for psych or FM residency too.
 
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Wow. I really thought OP was trolling at first. Sure do your best to not get a string of passes. But a USMD not getting into gen surgery won’t be because of a single P on a non surgical rotation. If anyone tells you something like that happened to them, they’re conveniently leaving out some big red flag(s).

A USMD who couldn’t match into a solid community gen surgery program was just a bad med student and refuses to accept it.
 
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Abilities as a clinician and work ethic are certainly things that can be found across all specialties. And most physicians could be taught the techniques of surgery - I often say I can teach almost anyone to sew in a circle. Surgeons are NOT somehow better or more special or more important than other physicians. But surgical decision making and thinking are not for everyone, and would be hard for other specialties to identify; I wouldn’t expect a surgeon to be able to identify specific traits necessary to make a student successful in peds or neurology or IM, etc.

Surgeons constantly deal with compressed timelines for decision-making both perioperatively and intraoperatively that may be difficult to appreciate for a non-surgeon. PCC and EM probably come closest but are still far different settings. I have no proof of this but it is my personal belief and observation that most surgical trainees who leave do so because they struggle to develop that kind of surgical thinking and decision-making. Even surgeons aren’t perfect at identifying which students have what it takes to develop into the kind of physician who can take that kind of pressure and make those kind of decisions on a regular basis. But certainly it would be very hard for a non-surgeon to judge that.

I want to be clear that I am not denigrating other specialties here. Certainly every other specialty has skills and traits necessary for success that may or may not overlap with surgery. But I’d never try to say I would be the best person to ascertain if a student would be successful in another specialty. But I have definitely tried to gently redirect a student who does not demonstrate the ability to develop surgical thinking. In the cases where the student has matched to a surgical specialty anyway, they have all changed specialties within 2 years.

But I imagine a letter from a surgeon might feel a little out of place for psych or FM residency too.
Agree 110%

I was seeing a patient a few weeks ago and they had a family member who was obviously in medicine and was driving the bulk of the conversation, but just from listening to their thought process and style of questions I finally asked “ok what kind of surgeon are you?” Even from two minutes of unrelated discussion about a non-surgical issue, you could spot the surgeons mindset.

I might also add that in addition, surgery and especially surgical training requires a certain level of grit and toughness. I’m sure other docs can see this too, but it means more when another surgeon says this is the future resident you’re going to want operating with you at 3am when things are going badly.
 
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Gen surgery is not competitive so you should be fine. Even with multiple passes not a big deal
 
Okay thank you. I guess my next question would be, is it possible to honor OBGYN as a male medical student? I’ve heard from upperclassmen that it’s much harder. If so, is there any advice that you would give in regards to being helpful when many patients don’t want you there. That’s my next rotation and I’m somewhat concerned that even if I manage to do better on the shelf, clinical evals might hold me back. How bad would it look to go pass back to back, assuming my other five rotations go better
.
 
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My experience, as well as the many other of my male classmates, is “many patients” don’t want a male.
Interesting. Whether it's geographic location, changing times, or whatever else; I remember a few patients not wanting me in the room, but most were ok with it.
 
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Gen surgery is not competitive so you should be fine. Even with multiple passes not a big deal
Thank you for the advice. I feel like you’ve posted before that you go to a top school so maybe that skews things. I kinda feel like my school is seen more as a DO school and the DO general surgery match rate hovers around 50 iirc
 
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Thank you for the advice. I feel like you’ve posted before that you go to a top school so maybe that skews things. I kinda feel like my school is seen more as a DO school and the DO match rate hovers around 50 iirc
Neuroticism is not a virtue. Your school is definitely not seen as a DO school.
 
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I say this in the kindest possible way, you need to see a therapist man. You post some really unhinged stuff on here and your worry-meter is way above average. You will be fine with a pass.
 
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