Can a mediocre/bad evaluation from surgery rotation hurt?

[Gamer35]

I'm not going to make any excuses or give a long story. Short of it is that I just finished my surgery rotation for 12 weeks, I scrubbed into whatever surgeries I needed to and did clinical hours at the preceptors office as well. None of the patients I interacted with ever had a complaint about me and most were happy with the level of care I provided.

There were times the surgeon pimped me and I got an answer wrong here and there and I also took a few days off due to illness. However, there were times that another student and I had discussions about politics and I learned my political views were opposite of the surgeon that was in charge of us and I'm sure he overheard it--not sure if that had anything to do with it but whatever.

Our school has the following system for grading:

Outstanding/Very Good/Satisfactory/Marginal/Unsatisfactory/Cannot Evaluate (e.g. A/B/C/D/F/Cannot Eval)

And a final grade with: High Honors/Honors/Pass/Fail.


So this guy gave me about 50% marginal (equivalent to D's) and 50% satisfactory (equivalent to C's) with a Pass grade. In the comments section of the evaluation, he left the positives blank and in the negative/area to improve he noted, "fund. knowledge". I'm already a US-IMG from a Caribbean school so will this further hurt my chances of matching (I plan to go for family medicine)? I've received honors in my other rotations so I was shocked when I got a copy of my evaluation today because this guy never let on that I was doing bad in his eyes.

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[KnuxNole]

One pass is not gonna kill you. Assuming the comments aren't anything dangerous, and you getting honors in everything else, this shouldn't be a problem.

It's in surgery and you are thinking of family medicine, so I don't think it's gonna matter about one pass from the surgery department. Honoring family medicine would be nice though, especially if they write awesome things about you in the comments part.

 

[Gamer35]

One pass is not gonna kill you. Assuming the comments aren't anything dangerous, and you getting honors in everything else, this shouldn't be a problem.

It's in surgery and you are thinking of family medicine, so I don't think it's gonna matter about one pass from the surgery department. Honoring family medicine would be nice though, especially if they write awesome things about you in the comments part.

He didn't write any positive comments but the only negative one he put was in the eval form where it asks where we need to improve and he noted "fund. knowledge". What I'm most concerned about is all the M's he gave me in the evaluation form. Do you think that will negatively impact my chance of matching into a FM residency since this was a core rotation?

Thanks.

 

[Top Gun]

It won't hurt you too much if all of your other evals and clinical grades are good, and your USMLE scores are exceptional. Just don't plan on going into surgery though. By the way, how did you do on the shelf exam? That will carry a significant amount of weight in your final rotation grade, and if you did well, will at least help minimize the effects of the bad eval on your final grade.

 

[Gamer35]

It won't hurt you too much if all of your other evals and clinical grades are good, and your USMLE scores are exceptional. Just don't plan on going into surgery though. By the way, how did you do on the shelf exam? That will carry a significant amount of weight in your final rotation grade, and if you did well, will at least help minimize the effects of the bad eval on your final grade.

We don't have clinical shelf exams, just evals at the end. They're starting shelf next semester though. Also, my USMLE scores were about average, nothing outstanding which is why I'm worried about this one. I'm just glad he didn't pile on more neg. comments but those M's definitely hurt.

 

[peppy]

My view: Not that big of a deal unless you were planning to go into surgery or if it becomes a "pattern". If it's just one evaluation in a specialty you didn't want to go into, most people will understand that sometimes things just don't go well on a rotation or you just happened to not get along with a certain person.

However, in the future: Make a point of asking for feedback mid-rotation so that you can try to improve if it turns out that they have an issue with you. Personally, I do feel like it's not fair to give someone a bad evaluation if you didn't give them any indication that there is a problem, but there are docs out there who will never tell you that there's a problem unless you ask.
Also, don't talk about politics at work until you're an attending.

 

[viper930]

Will this further hurt my chances of matching?

No dude negative evals always help your chances of matching. Seriously with these questions? Of course it will hurt your chances. The only question is how much. Fortunately, you honored your other rotations and from my experience there are few FM docs that care what a surgeon's eval says.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Also, don't talk about politics at work until you're an attending.

I never bring up politics unless an attending blatantly asks me about my opinion. I avoid politics like the plague, MRSA, and C.Diff in the hospital.

 

[Gamer35]

No dude negative evals always help your chances of matching. Seriously with these questions? Of course it will hurt your chances. The only question is how much. Fortunately, you honored your other rotations and from my experience there are few FM docs that care what a surgeon's eval says.

Right to be more precise: How much would this potentially affect an FM residency? Basically I'd like to know if FM program directors would weigh a surgery eval heavily or not. Frankly I'm still surprised he gave me so many M's in my evaluation because he never once let on during the rotation that there were any issues at all. In fact at one point he remarked, "I give everyone honors in my rotation, I know how tough you guys have it".

Thanks everyone for your responses so far and yeah, I'll be keeping out of political discussions from now on even if I'm asked what my opinion is.

 

[KnuxNole]

No dude negative evals always help your chances of matching. Seriously with these questions? Of course it will hurt your chances. The only question is how much. Fortunately, you honored your other rotations and from my experience there are few FM docs that care what a surgeon's eval says.

I'm curious why they would give a damn about something like surgery of all places

Oh no, the student wanted to take a break while retracting for 5 hours, he's a bad man I tell ya.

 

[viper930]

I'm curious why they would give a damn about something like surgery of all places

Oh no, the student wanted to take a break while retracting for 5 hours, he's a bad man I tell ya.

Very few, if any, would. Thats what I'm saying lol.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Honestly a mediocre evaluation from a surgeon might be seen as a good thing in FM. We don't care what FM says in their evals, and I doubt they care what we say. Looking for totally different skills.

I'd be more concerned about why this preceptor told you he gives everyone Honors except you.

 

[mimelim]

Honestly a mediocre evaluation from a surgeon might be seen as a good thing in FM. We don't care what FM says in their evals, and I doubt they care what we say. Looking for totally different skills.

I'd be more concerned about why this preceptor told you he gives everyone Honors except you.

 

[viper930]

Honestly a mediocre evaluation from a surgeon might be seen as a good thing in FM. We don't care what FM says in their evals, and I doubt they care what we say. Looking for totally different skills.

I'd be more concerned about why this preceptor told you he gives everyone Honors except you.

Haha, would you ever see a negative comment from an FM doc on Student X's application and think to yourself "thats right, go Student X"

If so, that's awesome.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Haha, would you ever see a negative comment from an FM doc on Student X's application and think to yourself "thats right, go Student X"

If so, that's awesome.

Maybe...if it said "decisive, well organised, practical, hard working, but also cantankerous, dominant, arrogant, hostile, impersonal, egocentric, and a poor communicator".

 

[SLUser11]

I'm not going to make any excuses or give a long story. Short of it is that I just finished my surgery rotation for 12 weeks, I scrubbed into whatever surgeries I needed to and did clinical hours at the preceptors office as well. None of the patients I interacted with ever had a complaint about me and most were happy with the level of care I provided.

There were times the surgeon pimped me and I got an answer wrong here and there and I also took a few days off due to illness. However, there were times that another student and I had discussions about politics and I learned my political views were opposite of the surgeon that was in charge of us and I'm sure he overheard it--not sure if that had anything to do with it but whatever.

Our school has the following system for grading:

Outstanding/Very Good/Satisfactory/Marginal/Unsatisfactory/Cannot Evaluate (e.g. A/B/C/D/F/Cannot Eval)

And a final grade with: High Honors/Honors/Pass/Fail.


So this guy gave me about 50% marginal (equivalent to D's) and 50% satisfactory (equivalent to C's) with a Pass grade. In the comments section of the evaluation, he left the positives blank and in the negative/area to improve he noted, "fund. knowledge". I'm already a US-IMG from a Caribbean school so will this further hurt my chances of matching (I plan to go for family medicine)? I've received honors in my other rotations so I was shocked when I got a copy of my evaluation today because this guy never let on that I was doing bad in his eyes.

You say you're not going to make excuses or give a long story, but then immediately follow that with a long story full of excuses......

I think being a 1) Caribbean student who 2) missed some pimp questions and 3) took several days off for "illness" is probably all the preceptor remembers about you. Whether it's fair or not, and whether you truly needed a few days off or not, surgeons often see things in black and white, and can be unforgiving. There's also a strong possibility that there were more things he did not like about your performance, but he did not share in an elaborate fashion.

That being said, I do believe that students and residents alike should avoid discussing politics and religion since they are very emotional topics. I doubt it is a major issue here, though.

I agree with other recommendations to ask for mid-rotation feedback. It gives you a chance to correct any issues. Many evaluators will quietly judge you for 12 weeks without telling you they think you suck....which is their fault, not yours. Laying out expectations and giving feedback are 2 essential parts of being a good teacher.

 

[ArcGurren]

I'm not going to make any excuses or give a long story. Short of it is that I just finished my surgery rotation for 12 weeks, I scrubbed into whatever surgeries I needed to and did clinical hours at the preceptors office as well. None of the patients I interacted with ever had a complaint about me and most were happy with the level of care I provided.

There were times the surgeon pimped me and I got an answer wrong here and there and I also took a few days off due to illness. However, there were times that another student and I had discussions about politics and I learned my political views were opposite of the surgeon that was in charge of us and I'm sure he overheard it--not sure if that had anything to do with it but whatever.

Our school has the following system for grading:

Outstanding/Very Good/Satisfactory/Marginal/Unsatisfactory/Cannot Evaluate (e.g. A/B/C/D/F/Cannot Eval)

And a final grade with: High Honors/Honors/Pass/Fail.


So this guy gave me about 50% marginal (equivalent to D's) and 50% satisfactory (equivalent to C's) with a Pass grade. In the comments section of the evaluation, he left the positives blank and in the negative/area to improve he noted, "fund. knowledge". I'm already a US-IMG from a Caribbean school so will this further hurt my chances of matching (I plan to go for family medicine)? I've received honors in my other rotations so I was shocked when I got a copy of my evaluation today because this guy never let on that I was doing bad in his eyes.

First of all, some general tips.
- Never ever EVER discuss politics or religion in the setting of a rotation or a residency. Everyone has an opinion and people are judgmental.
- No matter how much patients may love you, your grade is based purely off of what the residents and attendings think of you (and sometimes not even the residents). So let's get rid of the myth right now that being good with patients on rotations necessarily does anything to help you.

In general... I dunno what to tell you dude. It sucks, but (a) I doubt it will seriously impact your goal to go into FM and (b) welcome to third year, where evaluations often depend on the pure subjectivity of someone who may not be good at judging or evaluating anybody. And anecdotally, as the poster above me said, surgeons often see things in black and white, and sometimes what it takes is sucking up to the nth degree and pretending you want to be a surgeon even if you loathe it with the fiery power of a thousand supernovas.