Can being overly ambitious hurt my chances of getting in grad school?

[psycgurl27]

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Hi. I'm a freshman psychology major at a big northeastern public university with really big ambitions. I graduated high school early and as a result, am now a junior (in credit standing) at my school. I have taken numerous psychology courses (and gotten all A's) and am now working as a research assistant in my professor's lab. My clinical experience will come from the therapeutic mentoring I will preform this summer and hopefully the following ones as well. Ideally, I would love to get a PhD in clinical psychology directly out of college and am doing everything I can to build the foundation for this dream. I am taking practice GRE exams (general and psychology) on a regular basis even though it might be a while until I actually apply to a program (as I am only a second semester freshman.) My question is, would graduating college early hurt my chances of getting in? Is one year enough preparation for the GREs? I can graduate on schedule but that would leave me with one year of no classes to take (as I would have already taken every psychology class offered at my school including 5+ semesters of undergrad research at a professor's lab.) Should I take graduate level courses to fill in my schedule even though most PhD programs accept limited transfer credits? Is it true that top notch schools (University of Washington, Yale) are reluctant to accept young students? How much real life experience is enough?

 

[RayneeDeigh]

Hi. I'm a freshman psychology major at a big northeastern public university with really big ambitions. I graduated high school early and as a result, am now a junior (in credit standing) at my school. I have taken numerous psychology courses (and gotten all A's) and am now working as a research assistant in my professor's lab. My clinical experience will come from the therapeutic mentoring I will preform this summer and hopefully the following ones as well. Ideally, I would love to get a PhD in clinical psychology directly out of college and am doing everything I can to build the foundation for this dream. I am taking practice GRE exams (general and psychology) on a regular basis even though it might be a while until I actually apply to a program (as I am only a second semester freshman.) My question is, would graduating college early hurt my chances of getting in? Is one year enough preparation for the GREs? I can graduate on schedule but that would leave me with one year of no classes to take (as I would have already taken every psychology class offered at my school including 5+ semesters of undergrad research at a professor's lab.) Should I take graduate level courses to fill in my schedule even though most PhD programs accept limited transfer credits? Is it true that top notch schools (University of Washington, Yale) are reluctant to accept young students? How much real life experience is enough?

Well first, that's so great that you're self-directed. I'd imagine you're very busy.

Some things to consider: even though you will have taken every psych course offered, perhaps you should think about delving into different subject areas. Most schools appreciate (and want) breadth of knowledge. Also, think about volunteering somewhere for clinical experience.

I studied for 3 months for the psych GRE as well as the general and found that to be more than sufficient.

Just have fun as an undergrad, and use the time to research schools really well to see where you'd like to apply. There's plenty of time to stress out in your senior year, trust me. 🙂

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Take advantage of your four years of school. I was also ambitious and could have graduated at least a year early, but instead I chose to do more research, volunteering, and really explore my areas of interest, in an effort to prepare myself for grad school. Of course, I already had a year and a half under my belt at a successful tech firm, and it took me a number of years to give up a comfortable living to become a broke ass grad student.....so maybe i'm not the best person to listen to.

-t

 

[amy203]

First of all, keep in mind that most of the "top notch" programs are research oriented (the ones you listed certainly are). The vast majority of applicants at the "top notch" (high ranked, competitive, whatever) schools I interviewed at had been working full time as research assistants for around 2 years, and their RA positions had required a lot of writing and data analysis (so more than just data entry or running subjects). I wouldn't worry about graduating early in terms of not being able to take enough courses (I don't think schools are that concerned with coursework - although, take advanced stats if you can), but I would worry about getting enough research experience. If I were you, I'd take that extra year, work full-time as an RA, and publish, publish, publish.

 

[psypsypsy]

Again, congratulations on being so self-directed, and you're doing all the right things to prepare you for a clinical psychology degree. If your scores are good (which it sounds like they would be) you have a really good shot of making it into a clinical program.

That said, I think a lot of professors do look for experience and maturity when picking students. Although you're looking at research universities, you're still going to be a clinician that's going to be treating people of all ages, backgrounds, etc, and I do think professors look for having the experience and maturity necessary to handle the trials of seeing clients. I'd recommend taking a bit more time to get research experience and enjoy life before grad school (because life in grad school is a little hellish).

Also, it's great to be focused, but I'd definitely recommend expanding a bit, taking classes that are fun outside of psychology. Some of the best classes I took were in different disciplines, and in addition to making me more well-rounded, they also helped to inform what research I was interested in.

 

[RayneeDeigh]

Just as a weird aside: I've found that women's studies and anthropology classes are REALLY interesting to take as a Psych student. It's amazing to see the differences between the fields.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Just as a weird aside: I've found that women's studies and anthropology classes are REALLY interesting to take as a Psych student. It's amazing to see the differences between the fields.

I completely agree. I was able to take classes in women's studies, anthropology, sociology, etc....and it really broadened my experience. I think everyone should try to do this if they can.

-t

 

[irish80122]

When you apply to research focused programs you are going to be going up against some of the best of the best. There is a reason that many programs have an average entering age of 26. While you are going up against students who have possibly taken time off and have a lot of experience, you still can pull it off. I am going into a Clinical program straight from undergrad, so it can still be done! It sounds like you are doing the right things and are on the right track to me. Do what you can, try to make sure your application is well-rounded, but also know that everyone has weaknesses. That being said, you don't have to get in everywhere, one acceptance will do!

Good luck and don't forget to enjoy undergrad!!!

 

[PsychoEm]

i'd recommend a foreign language, especially spanish- can be extremely helpful when doing clinical work

 

[perfektspace]

1. If you can finish undergrad early, do it!

2. Work in a research lab for a year post undergrad(if you need the experience).

3. Study for the GRE general (3 months) and Psych GRE (1 month). Sounds like you will ace them given your drive and past success.

4. Your chances of getting in to Yale and similar "top" programs is slim and extra years of experience post undergrad may not make a bit of difference. If you feel ready and have a good overall application don't waste years in lab...apply! Apply to schools that do work in area's you are passionate about. Be picky about funding, quality of life but don't get hung up on rankings. They don't mean as much as you may think.

If you get in to a program at 21-22 you can be done by 28 or younger. That gives you a 5-7 year jump on most of us who will be finishing up closer to our mid-30's. Don't get hung up on the idea that you have to get a couple years of research experience post undergrad. You can get that experience during your undergrad since you are already focused on what you want to do at such an early age. The reason most people don't apply straight from undergrad is because they didn't know they would be applying to clinical programs early on and need to get that extra experience (like me). Now get movin' ya slacker!

edit: your dedication to finishing early should be a great indication to schools that you are a mature hard worker who knows what they want.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

If anyone makes a Doogie reference....just go with the flow....they are talking about a TV show from the early 90's about a kid doctor.

It really sounds like you have a lot going for you. Make sure to not rush yourself through too much, college is as much about finding yourself as it is about the education.

-t

 

[misskatie]

It can be done.

I'm graduating a year early and have had a very successful application round. There was no reason for me to stretch my undergrad career into four years. I didn't bring in an exorbitant amount of credits from high school, but I would have been bored had I not taken 18+ credits every semester. Also, I hit the ground running when I came into undergrad. That is, I started working on research and clinical experiences immediately and was able to gain some very significant experiences early on.

It really comes down to what a fourth year will give you. If you've only had a year of research or clinical experience, I would take another year. If another year would give you a significant additional experience, such as a publication or major conference presentation, I would take it.

If you do end up graduating a year early, I wouldn't make a big deal about it in your SOP or anywhere else in your application. A lot of the faculty members I interviewed with noted how they were impressed by my ability to graduate a year early with ease. That is, I didn't over-exert myself, my GPA didn't suffer, and I didn't rely on it to be my stand-out achievement.

I did have one negative reaction to my age. My POI wrote me a very kind rejection e-mail in which she stated that, despite the fact that she felt I was very mature and capable, she had a difficult time convincing the rest of the committee (with whom I did not meet or speak while at my interview) that a 20-year-old straight from undergrad deserved a spot over a 25-year-old who had applied multiple times. However, that's one admission committee's opinion. I know and have spoken to several others who have said that, if their stats and experiences are similar, they would rather take the person straight from undergrad.

Also, others have mentioned this point, but I wanted to as well. It's my opinion (& the opinion of lots of people in the Clinical Psych field) that rankings do not matter. Yale and such are ranked high why? Because they produce lots and lots of research. That does not necessarily mean it would be a good place to learn, especially if you're at all concerned about becoming a competent clinician (which, if you're going Clinical Psych, you should be, no matter your career aspirations). So, you should have your own personal ranking. That is, programs that best fit how & what you want to learn and faculty members that best fit your research interests.

 

[psycgurl27]

Thanks everyone for the replies! I just discovered this site yesterday, and quite frankly, I find these forums more useful than meeting with my advisor. =) I am fluent in multiple languages so I agree about the importance of a foreign language. Although I love research as much as the next guy, my dream is to be a clinician catering to Asian American families. As for taking classes outside my interest, I've already experimented in multiple areas (I will graduate with a minor in Sociology. If I do stay the extra year, I might get a double major in psychology and sociology but the upper level soci classes at my school are pretty uninformative and boring.

I never considered working in a lab full time (until someone mentioned it) but it's something I'll look into. The undergraduate research courses I've taken involve tasks a trained monkey can perform. Although it looks good on my resume, it will be inadequate research preparation for grad school. Plus, I'm stuck in a social oriented lab this semester (my parent's idea of expanding my horizons beyond clinical) which REALLY sucks (I'm not making judgments on social psychology, just the particular lab I'm working in.) I'm submitting project proposals to my school with hopes of getting some funding (very limited, however) to explore my own interests.

It might came across that I am only interested in top notch schools, however, this is not the case. I chose the public university route for my undergrad (and don't regret it one bit.) Yale and University of Washington are indeed my top two choices for grad school but only because each have a faculty member whose interests directly align with mine. Plus, I have relatives and friends who were graduates of the PhD programs and have only positive things to say about the schools. If anyone else knows of good programs (preferably whose emphasis is equally on research AND clinical experience) please let me know. I am really interested in studying Borderline Personality Disorder and the cognitives processes behind depression. 😛

 

[psycgurl27]

🙂

 

[misskatie]

Although I love research as much as the next guy, my dream is to be a clinician catering to Asian American families.

Yale and University of Washington are indeed my top two choices for grad school but only because each have a faculty member whose interests directly align with mine.

I don't know much about the faculty research interests at Yale and Washington, but you would never ever ever ever be able to utter the words, "My dream is to be a clinician." within earshot of any of the faculty members.

 

[Ollie123]

misskatie makes a good point.

If you want to be a clinician, be psychology has some weird splits between practice and research programs. Most of the programs at the well-known programs (the ivies for example) won't even consider you regardless of how impressive your stats are if you say you want to open up a practice. Yale would likely put your application straight into the shredder if you mention wanting to open a clinic in your personal statement. Not trying to be harsh, just want you to be prepared for the reality of it🙂

On a related note, if your goal is to open up a practice, those schools might not be the best choices anyways as actual clinical training is pretty minimal at Yale and most Yale-like schools. I don't know of any more "balanced" schools that have faculty specializing in BPD, but if I was in your position I would probably prefer to attend a school like that over a Yale or UW.

That being said, I don't want to discourage you from applying to top programs if you can get into someplace like Yale. Just recognize that they aren't too likely to encourage you in your goals of opening up a practice😉

 

[PhDanxiety]

psygurl27-

I am also interested in Borderline Personality Disorder and, although I am familiar with Dr. Linehan's Dialectical Behavior Model, I did not gain clinical experience in this particular area before applying. If I did it all over again, I would contact a state mental hospital and ask about volunteer opportunities in sitting in on their groups for this population. I am doing this now, but it is a bit too late. If you decide to apply to work with Dr. Linehan (please excuse my spelling if it is incorrect), it would certainly look great on your application. From my understanding, many state mental facilities offer groups to this population on an ongoing basis. It might beef up your application with a minimal time commitment. 🙂

 

[Cosmo 23]

To the original poster - you sound very motivated. It's sounds like you're doing everything that you can, academically, to put yourself in good standing.

I have a different kind of suggestion - try therapy. Psychotherapy is generally a stated/unstated expection of phd students in clinical and counseling psych progrms. Learning about yourself and understanding how your own thoughts, feelings, and behaviors will impact your performance as a clinician will indicate to admissions committees a depth and maturity that your age (I'm assuming 20??) may not.

You'll also learn a lot about yourself and your desire (need?) to accomplish at a pace that is faster than your peers, including where that drive comes from and how well it is serving you. Understanding yourself and your motivations is the best gift you can give yourself.

Good luck to you!

 

[Neuro-Dr]

The best reason to wait a bit is that you will need to drink heavily to deal with grad school and you won't be of age. I say once you turn 21, your old enough to suffer through grad school!!

 

[LosingMyMind]

Is it true that top notch schools (University of Washington, Yale) are reluctant to accept young students? How much real life experience is enough?

I can speak to UW's (at least Dr. Linehan's) thoughts on the matter. I applied this year and was interviewed for her lab. PM me if you want more information.

 

[Quynh2007]

I don't know much about the faculty research interests at Yale and Washington, but you would never ever ever ever be able to utter the words, "My dream is to be a clinician." within earshot of any of the faculty members.

I second this. mentioning interest in clinical work is considered a "kiss of death" at many PhD programs. (I am quoting several POI btw)

 

[Quynh2007]

The best reason to wait a bit is that you will need to drink heavily to deal with grad school and you won't be of age. I say once you turn 21, your old enough to suffer through grad school!!

lol, i'm turning 21 in 3 weeks! yay!

 

[paramour]

The best reason to wait a bit is that you will need to drink heavily to deal with grad school and you won't be of age. I say once you turn 21, your old enough to suffer through grad school!!

pfft, I know plenty of people who drank quite heavily in junior high/high school, which is well before the ripe 'ole age of 21. 😀

 

[Sanman]

In all honesty, I have to agree with Neuro-Dr. However, its not the drinking that is an issue (just ask college students). It's the fact that your classmates will want to head out to a bar. Not being of age will rule this out and might make socializing difficult. I came in at 21 with classmates a few years older, and while I still had a social life, friendships and dating took a hit because of my age. Also, being a guy didn't help much either. Luckily, the class that came in below me has more younger single people. This is why I didn't graduate early and instead worked in two labs (one being an honor's thesis) and I got to take some interesting classes and relax senior year as well. The RA idea is good as well. Maybe get a job at a med center of psychoanalytic institute.