Can Canada-trained Cardiothoracic surgeons work in the US?

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Knightmd

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With Cardiac Surgeons facing straight-out unemployment after finishing their 6-year residencies, does the American Board of Thoracic Surgeons grant Canadian cardiac surgery grads certification to work in the US?

I'm just wondering because I don't want to be unemployed in 6 years...

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I would assume yes. I know a pediatric cardiothoracic surgeon who practices in Omaha, NE and trained in Canada. I played hockey with his son so he has been practicing in the US for quite a long time.

http://www.unmc.edu/ctsurgery/duncan.htm
 
With Cardiac Surgeons facing straight-out unemployment after finishing their 6-year residencies, does the American Board of Thoracic Surgeons grant Canadian cardiac surgery grads certification to work in the US?

I'm just wondering because I don't want to be unemployed in 6 years...

You mean there's a dismal job market for new grads of CT Surg fellowships in Canada?

...unfortunately it's not that much better in the US!
 
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the job market should be better in in 6 years (Assuming you just started) when some of the older surgeons finally begin retiring after delaying due to the recession. This should help with the job market...i hope.
 
With Cardiac Surgeons facing straight-out unemployment after finishing their 6-year residencies, does the American Board of Thoracic Surgeons grant Canadian cardiac surgery grads certification to work in the US?

I'm just wondering because I don't want to be unemployed in 6 years...

1) Board Certification is not, as of yet, required to be employed in the US.

2) The American Board of Thoracic Surgery does not decide whether you are employable; the hospital or your employer will credential you, as will the insurance companies. Some may require BC, most will not (as of yet).

3) Here are the requirements to be Board Certified in Thoracic Surgery by the ABTS.
 
1) Board Certification is not, as of yet, required to be employed in the US.

2) The American Board of Thoracic Surgery does not decide whether you are employable; the hospital or your employer will credential you, as will the insurance companies. Some may require BC, most will not (as of yet).

3) Here are the requirements to be Board Certified in Thoracic Surgery by the ABTS.

Thanks; I had found the ABTS requirements earlier and there's really no telling if Canadian Cardiac Surgery residencies were " developed along guidelines established by the TSDA and approved by the ACGME (RRC-TS)."

I've googled many "Cardiac surgeon" jobs in the US, and most -if not all- seem to require ABTS certification:
http://nationaljobs.washingtonpost.com/a/all-jobs/list/q-Cardiothoracic+Surgeon

Plus, with the tight Cardiac surgery market, why take the one guy with no ABTS cert (and who requires a visa as a Canadian) if there are hundreds of other certified US surgeons ready and willing?
 
Plus, with the tight Cardiac surgery market, why take the one guy with no ABTS cert (and who requires a visa as a Canadian) if there are hundreds of other certified US surgeons ready and willing?

Exactly. Very tough job market right now. Tough to compete with all the other job-hungry US applicants - you need to bring something special to the table (i.e. the proverbial "niche").
 
1) Board Certification is not, as of yet, required to be employed in the US.

2) The American Board of Thoracic Surgery does not decide whether you are employable; the hospital or your employer will credential you, as will the insurance companies. Some may require BC, most will not (as of yet)...
I would concur with WS.

Your question OP is about being able to work in the USA. In the USA, the specialty boards and board certification does not enable or preclude you from being licensed to work within the USA. This is determined by the individual state licensing boards, not American specialty boards for certification.

As to board certification, OB/Uro/GenSurge/etc... all have their own specialty boards. I suspect Canada has similar specialty boards. Further, as noted, in the USA these are "American" (aka USA) boards. In general, you get boarded by an AMERICAN board by completing an American training program in that field/specialty. There are in the USA plenty of physicians that are ~"royal college" of something board certified. These physicians are not American boarded... because they were not trained in America under American board criteria.
...I had found the ABTS requirements earlier and there's really no telling if Canadian Cardiac Surgery residencies were " developed along guidelines established by the TSDA and approved by the ACGME (RRC-TS)."...
If you still have questions and/or concerns about this, I encourage you to contact the specialty/ies boards directly. I suspect, Canada so close and the exchange in training fairly common, they should be able to provide you information very easily. Also, but less authoratative, you could ask your training program administration... especially if they have sponsored exchange type education programs.
 
Thanks; I had found the ABTS requirements earlier and there's really no telling if Canadian Cardiac Surgery residencies were " developed along guidelines established by the TSDA and approved by the ACGME (RRC-TS)."

If they are approved by the ACGME, then they will say so. I would expect that most Canadian residencies fall under the Royal College guidelines, but some may also be approved by ACGME. Basically, if they do not say they are, they probably aren't.

I've googled many "Cardiac surgeon" jobs in the US, and most -if not all- seem to require ABTS certification:
http://nationaljobs.washingtonpost.com/a/all-jobs/list/q-Cardiothoracic+Surgeon

I looked through the provided link and I while I don't doubt that many require BC, most that I saw on that page neither mentioned it, only a few mentioned BE/BC.

At any rate, my point was not to discourage you or anyone else from being BC or to state that it wasn't necessary, only to clarify the OP which seemed to imply that ABTS had *anything* to do with credentialing or the ability to practice in the US. Many foreign trained CT surgeons, many of whom are in academia, are not BE/BS. Whether this changes in the future and you will be unable to find a job is unknown, but for now there is a clear path to practice without having trained in the US.

Plus, with the tight Cardiac surgery market, why take the one guy with no ABTS cert (and who requires a visa as a Canadian) if there are hundreds of other certified US surgeons ready and willing?

Certainly. Again, my point was not that you shouldn't be BC (especially in a tough market) but rather to clarify the often confused point about licensing, certification and credentialing which sometimes are seen to be one and the same and that ABTS only certifies you and does not credential. It is up to the individual employer as to whether your Canadian training is acceptable to them, not the ABTSs.

Best to contact Canadian programs about the ABTS requirements.
 
As others have said, the job market here isn't much better, as exemplified by none of the senior CT fellows at my program having jobs as of yet.

To address your Canadian concerns, our division chief of CT is Canadian born and trained, so nationality shouldn't be an issue.
 
...does the American Board of Thoracic Surgeons grant Canadian cardiac surgery grads certification to work in the US?...
I would assume yes. I know a pediatric cardiothoracic surgeon who practices in Omaha, NE and trained in Canada. I played hockey with his son so he has been practicing in the US for quite a long time...
I assume you are confusing two distinct things.... license vs board certification. There is not a ~certification to work that I am aware.

As to the title of the OP's thread, the answer is "yes". A Canadian trained physician can work in the USA.... as long as he/she can get a license within the state they wish to work.
 
As others have said, the job market here isn't much better, as exemplified by none of the senior CT fellows at my program having jobs as of yet.

To address your Canadian concerns, our division chief of CT is Canadian born and trained, so nationality shouldn't be an issue.

One of them does....headed back to Wichita as far as I know....
 
...As to the title of the OP's thread, the answer is "yes". A Canadian trained physician can work in the USA.... as long as he/she can get a license within the state they wish to work.
I forgot a glaring issue... answer is "yes" as long as he/she can get a license within the state they wish to work AND can get immigration issues adressed. Which starts to make things stickier.

I do not know what current requirements are relative to physicians being granted immigration to USA for work. Immigration may permit folks to enter to practice underserved fields/specialties/communities. However, maybe not now but in the future, I suspect restrictions will be placed on visas/work permits/etc... INS may restrict people immigrating from one depressed specialty just so they can compete in the USA in the same depressed specialty/ies. I don't know all the laws or have a say in INS. But, it doesn't make sense on the surface to have a field like CV surgery lacking jobs for grads to then start importing CV surgeons from another country... that lacks jobs, aka work for their grads.

As for final thought I suspect some med-student is going to pose as some rational/exception/etc... i.e. ~ "what about a US citizen that does residency in Canada?". Fine, sure, whatever; it doesn't make sense in the current climate. The surgery news and all indicators speak that USA residencies in CV are going unfilled. It makes no sense for a USA grad to then add levels of complexity to USA employment by traveling accross the boarder for CV residency. But, do what you like.
 
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One of them does....headed back to Wichita as far as I know....
That's news to me. I just asked the senior resident on service yesterday what the job status was on the fellows and he said none of them have jobs yet.
 
Is the job market still horrible for CT? The 4 CT attendings I've talked with have all said that the job market is GOOD now (and expected to get better--workforce older, retiring, etc), and that finding a job after fellowship isn't an issue anymore unless the fellow is not a competent surgeon. The fellow I talked to also didn't seem concerned about future employment.

On the other hand, everyone I've talked with outside of CT paints a bleak picture of the field. :confused:
 
Is the job market still horrible for CT? The 4 CT attendings I've talked with have all said that the job market is GOOD now (and expected to get better--workforce older, retiring, etc), and that finding a job after fellowship isn't an issue anymore unless the fellow is not a competent surgeon. The fellow I talked to also didn't seem concerned about future employment.

On the other hand, everyone I've talked with outside of CT paints a bleak picture of the field. :confused:

from my understanding, things are still bleak, but better compared to what it was in the mid 2000s...so i guess if you compare it to that it looks good. the future is bright however. its important to remember that you wont be done training for like a decade anyways...in medicine a decade is like a century...youll be graduating into a completely different job market in all likelihood. CT just needs to keep up the innovathin methinks.
 
Although I do not like to readily admit it, I think canada trains some real good cardiac surgeons and have good programs. these guys are the real deal.
Maybe since there are fewer programs, not as much competition to make $$ or maybe there is no FDA.. who knows

there are quite a few canadian surgeons who would easily find jobs created for them in just about any top US program should they wish to leave. If you are at the expert level, I dont think a board certification matters.

too bad the canadians still think france is cool though....
 
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