can I get into top 15 school with merit scholarship?

[Danbo1957]

OP,

You are in a great situation, really. A 7-year MS/MD program at a good school, in a great city, is the Holy Grail.

A "high" score on the MCAT is only a part of your application; weak EC's and a lack of research do hurt your application. You probably will NOT earn merit money with what you currently have. And, if you opt out you take your chances like everyone else - meaning that you may end up somewhere that you like less than Miami.

The Miller School is well respected and Jackson Memorial is highly respected for 3rd year clerkships.

Dude. Take the 10k and run with it.

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[Anatidae]

It's really difficult to say who will and who won't get merit scholarships. Just based on observation from this year's group, the people getting the big money (up to this point) have not been those with ridiculous numerical scores, but those with unique ECs that define them. Of course, we don't really know who's getting money at a lot of schools yet, but after my own experiences this cycle - it's a lot harder to make up for weak ECs than it is to make up for weak numerical scores.

My guess is that you'll be very competitive at the top schools, but it's a crapshoot after that. If you feel like it's worth giving up $40,000 to go somewhere else, then take a shot at some of the schools that give out merit scholarships and hope it works out. You won't be left out in the cold, but you might not get the money you're looking for either.

 

[VincentAdultman]

Oh, I missed the part where you're already in @ Miami!

Dude, are you serious? You want to back out of MIAMI (an awesome school in its own right) because you MAY get more money at some better (by USNWR's "standard") school that you MAY get accepted at.

Someone is missing the forest for the trees perhaps?

 

[docontheroc]

danbo, i had a question that is relevant to OP that you might be able to answer...

why are we talking about this like it's an all or nothing decision? can bs/md programs really prohibit you from applying out with the threat of withdrawing your conditional acceptance? for example, if OP were to quietly apply out via AMCAS, how would his affiliated medical school know? i dont think amcas notifies anyone about where an applicant applies, and if rec letter writers aren't affiliated with the program's admins...couldnt someone just apply, and then opt out if/when they get an acceptance somewhere else?

i assumed this is why at my program you are allowed to apply out and still retain your guarantee in case it doesnt work out...but maybe im missing something

 

[Handy388]

it seems like the good fit for OP in this case is basically a highly ranked school that's cheap.

 

[pianola]

My guess off the top of my head is that of course you have a SHOT at $$. But nothing's guaranteed. I'd also like to ask you if you are automatically forfeiting your $10K scholarship if you apply to other schools?

Honestly, if you like Miller and they're willing to give you a $10K scholarship, I would just stick with it.

You have no idea what a circus ring this whole 'application process' is. An it's an expensive circus ring, too.

 

[Danbo1957]

danbo, i had a question that is relevant to OP that you might be able to answer...

why are we talking about this like it's an all or nothing decision? I think that many people realize how hard it is to get into medschool for well qualified applicants. can bs/md programs really prohibit you from applying out with the threat of withdrawing your conditional acceptance? No. If that were the case, fewer qualified students would sign up for an MS/MD program. for example, if OP were to quietly apply out via AMCAS, how would his affiliated medical school know? They wouldn't know directly, but word might get around... and, if the reasons for opting out are to go to a higher ranked program and for more scholarship money- sheesh, that's tough to argue with a straight face. i dont think amcas notifies anyone about where an applicant applies, and if rec letter writers aren't affiliated with the program's admins...couldnt someone just apply, and then opt out if/when they get an acceptance somewhere else? Probably.

i assumed this is why at my program you are allowed to apply out and still retain your guarantee in case it doesnt work out...but maybe im missing something. In life, generally, we all miss something when opting out of a sure thing.

 

[docontheroc]

danbo, i had a question that is relevant to OP that you might be able to answer...

why are we talking about this like it's an all or nothing decision? I think that many people realize how hard it is to get into medschool for well qualified applicants. can bs/md programs really prohibit you from applying out with the threat of withdrawing your conditional acceptance? No. If that were the case, fewer qualified students would sign up for an MS/MD program. for example, if OP were to quietly apply out via AMCAS, how would his affiliated medical school know? They wouldn't know directly, but word might get around... and, if the reasons for opting out are to go to a higher ranked program and for more scholarship money- sheesh, that's tough to argue with a straight face. i dont think amcas notifies anyone about where an applicant applies, and if rec letter writers aren't affiliated with the program's admins...couldnt someone just apply, and then opt out if/when they get an acceptance somewhere else? Probably.

i assumed this is why at my program you are allowed to apply out and still retain your guarantee in case it doesnt work out...but maybe im missing something. In life, generally, we all miss something when opting out of a sure thing.

so from what I gather...by applying out, OP would NOT be giving up his guarantee at UMiami. So, OP has virtually nothing to lose in applying out (except money, time spent with app process) since even if he/she were to get rejected everywhere he/she would still have umiami to fall back on. whatever his/her real motivation, i doubt OP will try and argue that he/she is applying out just because of the money or umiami's rank.

 

[abc123puck]

1

 

[docontheroc]

that is pain, that they would make you forfeit your seat to apply out. i say you will still probably get into a 'better' school, but there are no money guarantees. and it's true, **** can hit the fan, and you can end up with nothing (not likely, but it has happened before).

i would still consider deferring a year and just applying out without telling anyone. ridiculous policies call for ridiculous measures.

 

[abc123puck]

1

 

[pianola]

Maybe apply for need-based scholarship money as well? A lot of times adcoms will be very understanding if you can explain the situtation to them. I have NO DOUBT Miami would be very disappointed to lose someone with your stats.

Seriously, talk with the dean of admissions...I mean, your stats are through the roof, you have a great bargaining chip. The worst they can do is say "we'll think about it". I doubt they'd even turn you down on the spot.

 

[AdmiralChz]

Maybe apply for need-based scholarship money as well? A lot of times adcoms will be very understanding if you can explain the situtation to them. I have NO DOUBT Miami would be very disappointed to lose someone with your stats.

Seriously, talk with the dean of admissions...I mean, your stats are through the roof, you have a great bargaining chip. The worst they can do is say "we'll think about it". I doubt they'd even turn you down on the spot.

Pretty good advice! What do you have to lose by going and talking to them directly? It's not like they're going to take away your spot in the program for asking .

 

[AldousHux]

My boyfriend graduated from a top 20 school, 3.99 gpa, 4.0 science, did 4 years of research with publications, got a 41 on his MCAT, is an under represented minority, did a ton of volunteering and shadowing, and he still didn't get accepted to a singly top ten school. He got accepted to one top 20, is going there, and got no money from them. The people who did really do have amazing life stories, and even if they are merit based, they tend to go to people who seem to need it AND have amazing apps. This is just one example, but it seems to be a similar situation.

I'm really sorry your dad is having a rough time at work, my dad lost his job a few years ago and found a new one right before the economy went down the drain. We got lucky, but those few years he was unemployed were incredibly hard on us as a family.

Having said that, it has no affect on me because my loans are in my name, so my finances don't affect them at all. Unless you don't think you can live off your schools budget, why do you think you can't get the loans you need for your last years of school? Or are you planning on giving your money to your family? If so, that is incredibly generous of you, and I hope you get it!

Good luck.

 

[drizzt3117]

yeah, there are tons of people with 4.0/42 MCAT running around...

42 MCAT is 99.9% (or perhaps above, as AAMC doesn't publish the percentiles with greater precision than 0.1%), meaning if 50,000 people take it a year, no more than 50 people will get that score. Even if we make the timeframe the last three years, that's 150 people. How many of those have 4.0s?

If I had that profile I'd drop the BS/MD in the heartbeat. I had multiple scholarship offers last cycle and I didn't have either a 4.0 or a 42 MCAT. Certainly it's not a guarantee that you'd get any merit money, but your chances are quite good, and I think the chances you'd get into a better school than Miami would be close to 100% if that's something the OP is interested in (and apparently it is)

 

[docontheroc]

My boyfriend graduated from a top 20 school, 3.99 gpa, 4.0 science, did 4 years of research with publications, got a 41 on his MCAT, is an under represented minority, did a ton of volunteering and shadowing, and he still didn't get accepted to a singly top ten school. He got accepted to one top 20, is going there, and got no money from them. The people who did really do have amazing life stories, and even if they are merit based, they tend to go to people who seem to need it AND have amazing apps. This is just one example, but it seems to be a similar situation.

what happened there? most of the mediocre URMs i know had their pick of top 10 schools.

yeah, there are tons of people with 4.0/42 MCAT running around...

42 MCAT is 99.9% (or perhaps above, as AAMC doesn't publish the percentiles with greater precision than 0.1%), meaning if 50,000 people take it a year, no more than 50 people will get that score. Even if we make the timeframe the last three years, that's 150 people. How many of those have 4.0s?

If I had that profile I'd drop the BS/MD in the heartbeat. I had multiple scholarship offers last cycle and I didn't have either a 4.0 or a 42 MCAT. Certainly it's not a guarantee that you'd get any merit money, but your chances are quite good, and I think the chances you'd get into a better school than Miami would be close to 100% if that's something the OP is interested in (and apparently it is)

agreed

 

[drizzt3117]

That is an ******* comment to make.

Seriously, I know 2 or 3 URMs who had about a 33-37 range MCAT and 3.8-4.0 GPA. They got waitlisted at several top 10s and maybe got into one of them or got in one top 20 school.

The one person had a 37, 4.0 was a URM. Got into Emory. That's not a top 10 but still top 20. Another got into Columbia with similar stats and a 3rd into Upenn. But all of them were waitlisted and didn't have a whole handful of several top tier schools accepting them, although they did have several interviews at them.

So its not like that. You either have something that really impresses them or not.

They all got waitlisted at the top 2 name schools HMS and Hopkins but none ultimately got in. Its not like it was as easy as you make it sound. All of them had credentials that even if they were white, stood out above the rest of the premeds at USF undergrad. All of them had research with publications, several hours of community service and clinical hours, as well as great leadership experiences. They were all 3 brilliant. The other URMs I knew who got in just barely got into schools that were nowhere near the top but only schools that they would've gotten in with their range of scores i.e. HBCUs or other lower tier schools. I may have seen them get more things like PSEP or summer enrichment program opps but that didn't translate to more acceptances. Only the best and brightest got in the best schools. At least that's how it is at my university. I can't speak for others.

So lots of non-URM people from USF got into Penn and Emory and Columbia and interviewed at Harvard and Hopkins then, right?

 

[redlight]

yeah, there are tons of people with 4.0/42 MCAT running around...

42 MCAT is 99.9% (or perhaps above, as AAMC doesn't publish the percentiles with greater precision than 0.1%), meaning if 50,000 people take it a year, no more than 50 people will get that score. Even if we make the timeframe the last three years, that's 150 people. How many of those have 4.0s?

If I had that profile I'd drop the BS/MD in the heartbeat. I had multiple scholarship offers last cycle and I didn't have either a 4.0 or a 42 MCAT. Certainly it's not a guarantee that you'd get any merit money, but your chances are quite good, and I think the chances you'd get into a better school than Miami would be close to 100% if that's something the OP is interested in (and apparently it is)

again, there are people in this forum with ~4.0/40 and no acceptances this cycle. numbers don't guarantee anything except maybe a few interviews.

 

[drizzt3117]

again, there are people in this forum with ~4.0/40 and no acceptances this cycle. numbers don't guarantee anything except maybe a few interviews.

There might be people who say they have 4.0/40 who have no acceptances, that doesn't mean they do.

I'm not denying it's possible to be denied admission given the perfect storm of circumstances with a 4.0/40, or if you have criminal or ethical problems, but any typical premed that's done any typical premed stuff with those stats will almost certainly have a long list of interviews, acceptances, and probably scholarship offers.

 

[redlight]

There might be people who say they have 4.0/40 who have no acceptances, that doesn't mean they do.

I'm not denying it's possible to be denied admission given the perfect storm of circumstances with a 4.0/40, or if you have criminal or ethical problems, but any typical premed that's done any typical premed stuff with those stats will almost certainly have a long list of interviews, acceptances, and probably scholarship offers.

well OP is talking about top 15 schools right? if you apply to the top 15, numbers can only get you in the door. they dont guarantee acceptance or merit money. even if you are not a criminal and have typical ECs.. it doesn't mean acceptance. i heard dean hicks (hopkins) speak a few weeks ago and she was talking about how important interviews are.. she was talking about some kid with a 4.0 and 45T who got waitlisted this cycle because his interview was lackluster.. ok it was a pretty bad interview lol.. numbers dont guarantee squat in this game when you're talking about the big dogs

 

[redlight]

what happened there? most of the mediocre URMs i know had their pick of top 10 schools.



agreed

really? mediocre, ay? what were thier stats? just curious.

 

[docontheroc]

under 3.8 over 3.3, although i knew a guy with a 3.9. 30 to 35 mcat.

run of the mill research/shadowing and overseas volunteering...nothing particularly outstanding

cool and interesting people though, and it probably showed in their apps/recs/interviews. so i guess not mediocre in that sense, just by the usual premed criteria. and im glad they enjoyed the amount of success that they did.

 

[drizzt3117]

well OP is talking about top 15 schools right? if you apply to the top 15, numbers can only get you in the door. they dont guarantee acceptance or merit money. even if you are not a criminal and have typical ECs.. it doesn't mean acceptance. i heard dean hicks (hopkins) speak a few weeks ago and she was talking about how important interviews are.. she was talking about some kid with a 4.0 and 45T who got waitlisted this cycle because his interview was lackluster.. ok it was a pretty bad interview lol.. numbers dont guarantee squat in this game when you're talking about the big dogs

I bet you that person still got into a top 15 school. You don't think people can get into medical school if they lack social skills? There are a LOT of med students who are total d-bags.

 

[Old ortho]

Deleted

 

[drizzt3117]

.

 

[redlight]

I bet you that person still got into a top 15 school. You don't think people can get into medical school if they lack social skills? There are a LOT of med students who are total d-bags.

again, im sure you can get into med school with great stats and sub par social skills, but i'll bet that med school isnt a top 15 (unless said student is a great actor or got lucky somehow on interview day)! but we're straying far from what the OP is asking about. im just saying its silly competitive when you are talking about top 15. just about everyone applying is a stud, and i doubt anyone cares what your #s are past 3.8/9+ and 37+ (medians at the top top schools). once you've reached that level the rest of your application gets you in.

back to OP: id say your stats wont get you scholarships at top schools simply because your ECs are not special. i may be wrong, some schools may just want to throw money at you to inflate thier avgs but i doubt it because there ECs and the subjective factors are so important in the app process. either way, good luck to you and congrats on your killer #s.

 

[drizzt3117]

again, im sure you can get into med school with great stats and sub par social skills, but i'll bet that med school isnt a top 15 (unless said student is a great actor or got lucky somehow on interview day)! but we're straying far from what the OP is asking about. im just saying its silly competitive when you are talking about top 15. just about everyone applying is a stud, and i doubt anyone cares what your #s are past 3.8/9+ and 37+ (medians at the top top schools). once you've reached that level the rest of your application gets you in.

Have you interviewed at top 15 schools before? You think everyone at a top 15 school has great social skills? LOL. I turned one prominent top 15 school down last cycle specifically because of my interactions with the students. Students at top schools aren't any more likely to have good social skills than students at lower ranked schools. They however, in general, have better grades, MCAT, and sure, research and ECs, which has zero correlation with their social skills.

Anyways, regarding the OP, I don't think 3.5 years of volunteering and some shadowing is terrible in terms of ECs. Yes, maybe some research, some leadership, etc, would be nice, but IMO it certainly wouldn't preclude someone from getting a top tier admission.

 

[Handy388]

Have you interviewed at top 15 schools before? You think everyone at a top 15 school has great social skills? LOL. I turned one prominent top 15 school down last cycle specifically because of my interactions with the students. Students at top schools aren't any more likely to have good social skills than students at lower ranked schools. They however, in general, have better grades, MCAT, and sure, research and ECs, which has zero correlation with their social skills.

Anyways, regarding the OP, I don't think 3.5 years of volunteering and some shadowing is terrible in terms of ECs. Yes, maybe some research, some leadership, etc, would be nice, but IMO it certainly wouldn't preclude someone from getting a top tier admission.

There are always gonna be socially inept kids in every med school class. I feel like every interview have been lively because I gravitate toward lively people. Think about that.

 

[Charmed2009]

No I'm not kidding you. Any time someone posts anything that seems even remotely like a stupid question on these boards at least 5 people post the same responses: That "Do not feed the troll" emoticon, the "You have no chance with your stats, you should get a 45 MCAT and 4.5 GPA" response or the "You need to (cure cancer/start a medical clinic in Africa/find a solution to global warming/etc)..." response. They are all so anxious to do it like they are the first person ever to come up with such a clever idea or saying such a thing that they don't even bother reading and thinking about what the person is asking. You're not original, it's been done plenty of times before, and it's not funny. If you don't have anything worthwhile to say, don't post in the thread. Just let it quietly fall off the first page.

+1
Thank you for telling it like it is. I mean, JEEZUS, I hate when people jump on the troll bandwagon.

To the OP - medical school admissions are, to some extent, unpredictable (perhaps arbitrary?) when we're talking about the creme de la creme schools. If you beef up your ECs I think it's quite possible you'll get admission to some of the "top" schools - but as far as financial aid goes, I have no idea. Best of luck and congrats on your performance in school thus far!

ETA: That being said, I don't think I would have the cojones to withdraw from UM. You would have to explain to potential medical schools why you withdrew from a "sure thing" MD, and I don't know that all schools would look kindly upon this. Plus I would just want to get my MD and not mess around with having to go back for more undergrad hours like literature, etc.

 

[drizzt3117]

There are always gonna be socially inept kids in every med school class. I feel like every interview have been lively because I gravitate toward lively people. Think about that.

interesting, that post looked a lot different when you first wrote it.

My point is lack of social skills won't prevent someone from getting into medical school, it's certainly not a great thing and won't help them but someone with a 4.0/42 is a stone cold lock for a top program, whether or not they can interact with the human race. Unfortunate, but it is what it is.

 

[redlight]

no i have not interviewed at a top 15. haven't applied yet...

and i didnt say it wasnt possible for weirdoes or awkward people to get into top schools (i mentioned great acting, luck.. but also consider biased interviewers ... like an open file interview w/ someone who is blown away by your numbers and overlooks weaknesses because they want more gpa/mcat beasts at their school.).. besides, arent some top schools noted for being #******/accepting robots (ahem, washu raise your hand..jk!). im convinced an applicant is less likely to get into top 15 if their all around application isn't spot on (especially if interviews sucked), and at the very least those socially inept people you met on the trail probably needed/had a solid to avg interview performance to get in.

so yes, you've interviewed at a top school with wacky med students, but my experience w/ med students (at top schools) has been different. either way i'm sure all schools have their quacks.

***just to be clear, in previous posts, i was really talking about interview day performance rather than general social skills. who cares if you are a great people person and can connect and communicate with people with great facility if you f' up interview day and cant show your true nature? your performance on that day is what counts, methinks. sry if there was confusion. ***

 

[drizzt3117]

no i have not interviewed at a top 15. haven't applied yet...

and i didnt say it wasnt possible for weirdoes or awkward people to get into top schools (i mentioned great acting, luck.. but also consider biased interviewers ... like an open file interview w/ someone who is blown away by your numbers and overlooks weaknesses because they want more gpa/mcat beasts at their school.).. besides, arent some top schools noted for being #******/accepting robots (ahem, washu raise your hand..jk!). im convinced an applicant is less likely to get into top 15 if their all around application isn't spot on (especially if interviews sucked), and at the very least those socially inept people you met on the trail probably needed/had a solid to avg interview performance to get in.

I interviewed at a good chunk of the top 15, and I didn't notice any significant difference in terms of the social skills of the applicants and students there and those at lower tier schools.

so yes, you've interviewed at a top school with wacky med students, but my experience w/ med students (at top schools) has been different. either way i'm sure all schools have their quacks.

***just to be clear, in previous posts, i was really talking about interview day performance rather than general social skills. who cares if you are a great people person and can connect and communicate with people with great facility if you f' up interview day and cant show your true nature? your performance on that day is what counts, methinks. sry if there was confusion. ***

I'm not making the argument that being a d-bag doesn't hurt you, it most certainly does, but those people with high stats can overcome it, those without... can't.

 

[Handy388]

interesting, that post looked a lot different when you first wrote it.

My point is lack of social skills won't prevent someone from getting into medical school, it's certainly not a great thing and won't help them but someone with a 4.0/42 is a stone cold lock for a top program, whether or not they can interact with the human race. Unfortunate, but it is what it is.

I tried to make a statement at first, then I realized there were awkward kid all over the place. Just that they were more obvious at certain top tier school for some reason (contrast from the more lively folks?)

If anything, here's an N=1 impression

- the beginning and the tail end of interview tend to produce social people.

I guess because in Sept, everyone's super stoked about interviews and are more lively, and in march, a lot of people who are interviewing then have the whole "finally got an interview" excitement going on.

 

[redlight]

I interviewed at a good chunk of the top 15, and I didn't notice any significant difference in terms of the social skills of the applicants and students there and those at lower tier schools.

yeah i wasn't being clear enough i guess. i was really trying to comment on interview day performance, not general social skills. you need a good interview day or you're likely in deep trouble at the more competitive schools. interviews are very important, and can even negate all the good + bonus pts the rest of your application accumulated (LizzyM has said this and of course real adcom have said this to my face).

I'm not making the argument that being a d-bag doesn't hurt you, it most certainly does, but those people with high stats can overcome it, those without... can't.

i agree that you may stand a better chance at overcoming d-bag disease if the rest of your application is awesome. however, there are more than enough people with a great application AND a great interview day gunning for these top schools, so a poor i-day performance means someone else will easily replace you and fill a med school seat.

as you said earlier, peeps at top schools on average have better #s, ECs, etc, so the competition is fierce and margin for error is slim. at your lower ranked schools (which i am assuming have less competition, or fewer number of awesome candidates, or higher acceptance rates, etc.) it MAY be easier to overcome a lackluster interview.

nonetheless i really think a bad, or potentially luke-warm, interview day is fatal at top schools, regardless of how nice your # are.

hah sry for hijacking op. arr.

 

[drizzt3117]

yeah i wasn't being clear enough i guess. i was really trying to comment on interview day performance, not general social skills. you need a good interview day or you're likely in deep trouble at the more competitive schools. interviews are very important, and can even negate all the good + bonus pts the rest of your application accumulated (LizzyM has said this and of course real adcom have said this to my face).

I suppose but that begs the question of what is a good interview performance, and we all know that's very subjective based on the interviewer in question, and is also heavily affected by interview methodology (open file, or otherwise) In any case, even the biggest d-bags are most likely able to keep it under control for 8 hours. Just look at SDN to see their true nature... lol

 

[redlight]

lol... yes many people on sdn are d-bags. i think most do it for kicks.. heck i like to kick up some dirt every now and then

and very true about how it's hard to predict performance on interviews.. lots of people have said their interviewers guaranteed acceptance because of their strong performance..and then were placed on the waitlist worse.

 

[Greonis]

under 3.8 over 3.3, although i knew a guy with a 3.9. 30 to 35 mcat.

run of the mill research/shadowing and overseas volunteering...nothing particularly outstanding

cool and interesting people though, and it probably showed in their apps/recs/interviews. so i guess not mediocre in that sense, just by the usual premed criteria. and im glad they enjoyed the amount of success that they did.

And just what gives you the authority to determine which numbers constitute a "mediocre" applicant per the usual premed criteria, even at top schools? Do you honestly believe that someone with a 3.79 GPA and a 35 on their MCAT is numerically mediocre?

Seriously, I hope you're just trolling, because I'm a sucker for this kind of bait. If you're actually being serious, then you might want to brush up on the average/median matriculant MCAT and GPA values (AKA: not those of all accepted students) at some of these coveted top schools...

 

[Samoa]

I'd just like to point out to the OP the dichotomy here in the advice you are getting. Those who've been through med school and the residency selection process have a better idea what matters about where you go to school and what doesn't, as well as your chances of getting what you're seeking, are generally telling you to take what you already have and run with it.

In contrast, it's largely the pre-meds and one current med student who are encouraging you to pursue this course of action. And unless the med student actually sits on his school's adcom, and knows what your chances would be (as opposed to his own experience), you'd be wise to take that opinion as the n=1 that it is.

 

[bozz]

With no research or unique Ecs the Op would be lucky to land a top 15 acceptance. Scholarships are out of the question at those schools.

 

[VincentAdultman]

This scenario ignores the possibility that by going to a better medical school and presumably a better residency that he would potentially be able to land a higher paying job as an attending... Things aren't so cut/dried.

Considering the stats of the OP, the boost from going to a "better" medical school over UM would be negligible.

I'd just like to point out to the OP the dichotomy here in the advice you are getting. Those who've been through med school and the residency selection process have a better idea what matters about where you go to school and what doesn't, as well as your chances of getting what you're seeking, are generally telling you to take what you already have and run with it.

In contrast, it's largely the pre-meds and one current med student who are encouraging you to pursue this course of action. And unless the med student actually sits on his school's adcom, and knows what your chances would be (as opposed to his own experience), you'd be wise to take that opinion as the n=1 that it is.

I wager this nugget of wisom falls on deaf ears, being this the premed forum and all.

 

[docontheroc]

And just what gives you the authority to determine which numbers constitute a "mediocre" applicant per the usual premed criteria, even at top schools? Do you honestly believe that someone with a 3.79 GPA and a 35 on their MCAT is numerically mediocre?

Seriously, I hope you're just trolling, because I'm a sucker for this kind of bait. If you're actually being serious, then you might want to brush up on the average/median matriculant MCAT and GPA values (AKA: not those of all accepted students) at some of these coveted top schools...

i was giving ranges for the numbers of several people i know. none of them had that nice 3.79 35 composite, it was always a combo of low mcat with decent GPA or vice versa. im no authority, and was simply asked what my own opinion of mediocre was. 3.8 and 36 was the standard i set for myself when i was thinking about these 'top' schools and i barely made my own cut. although it seemed to work out decently though so maybe i was letting my own neurosis get to me. but this didn't come out of no where, URM aside, i have seen many, MANY applicants miss out on schools and their numbers were trending towards those standards.

so statistically sound? probably not (i think it would be interesting to see what the matriculant figures are for schools, although i still think accepted numbers are more relevant because that is the ultimate goal, not to get pulled off a waitlist) but im going to venture a guess that if you're sitting with a 3.5 and a 33 without some killer EC you dont stand a chance in hell at a 'top' school.

 

[RoadRunner17]

I've known of at least a few nonURMs who got into top tier universities. But also keep in mind a lot of USF students do not get 35+ MCAT scores and 4.0s. In fact, more often then not a lot of USF premeds are getting 3.8-3.9s with such bad MCAT scores that they are not even getting 24, but more like 18s and 19s and early 20s.

That has been a general trend. The ones who've scored high have interviewed at top tier universities and several have gotten in. I have a Persian friend with similar scores who got into Hopkins--no scholarship but got in. He also interviewed at Harvard.

Another friend got into Cornell. Yet others got interviewed at places like Yale and Baylor and WashU where they were waitlisted but they were lacking in one area or another that those examples I gave in my previous post were not lacking in. I.E. some of those minorities had publications and other things that these people did not have that significantly made a difference at the top research institutions.

Furthermore, my one friend had 3 full scholarship offers. She was definitely not a URM on any grounds and was interviewed at most of the top 20 schools and accepted into 3 of them which gave the offers and accepted to a few other top name universities as well.

I can keep going on if you'd like, but the point is YES those with high scores and great credentials did get into top name universities that are on the top 20 list of schools. Those who didn't didn't get their fair share of choices as such.

Likewise, with dental school, I've seen the same trends among dental applicants where I'm from.

Just wanted to comment, you're full of anecdotal information, aren't you? It sounds like you know the story of every pre-med at USF.

But back on topic, OP take what you have and run with it. Don't get too greedy now, especially considering you yourself admit that you don't have strong EC's and clinical experience. You will be more than just fine at Miami.. unless it's such a terrible fit for you that you feel the absolute need to get away.

 

[docontheroc]

Considering the stats of the OP, the boost from going to a "better" medical school over UM would be negligible.

I wager this nugget of wisom falls on deaf ears, being this the premed forum and all.

i wonder, given the opportunity, how many MS/residents/fellows/attendings/chairs would tell a premed to take an acceptance to umiami over an acceptance into a 'better' or 'top' school that he/she liked equally, if not more?

why should OP, or anyone for that matter, aspire to anything less just because he hasn't put in an application yet...

 

[What up doc]

Just wanted to comment, you're full of anecdotal information, aren't you? It sounds like you know the story of every pre-med at USF.

But back on topic, OP take what you have and run with it. Don't get too greedy now, especially considering you yourself admit that you don't have strong EC's and clinical experience. You will be more than just fine at Miami.. unless it's such a terrible fit for you that you feel the absolute need to get away.

but they both are. the person he was rebuttling gave nothing but anecdotal info as well. i think its funny how all these ppl claim to know so many URM med school applicants. i mysely who goes to a school with many URMs and who associates primarily with URMs do not even know as many URMs; let alone, URMs with "less than average accepted student" numbers (less inflamatory than "mediocore", ne1 garnering a top 10 acceptance is not mediocre docontheroc, douche) who are willing to so openly disclose their private information about their statistics knowing they will most likely foment hatred and jealousy from other ORM premeds. i dont even disclose my stats in person, which are not mediocore by ANYONE's standards, because i know that some entitled ORM premed with a 38 and a 3.7 who thinks they deserve to be accepted to everyschool they apply to will jus get jealous and talk ish about me behind my back. but hey, to each his own.

but to the OP, a 42/4.0 are sweet. but like others said, it takes even more to get scholarships. schools give scholarships to students they really want. i dont think a 42/4.0 is gonna make schools REALY ReaLLY want you over another accepted student with a 3.75, 37 and amazing ECs. but good luck either way.

 

[docontheroc]

but they both are. the person he was rebuttling gave nothing but anecdotal info as well. i think its funny how all these ppl claim to know so many URM med school applicants. i mysely who goes to a school with many URMs and who associates primarily with URMs do not even know as many URMs; let alone, URMs with "less than average accepted student" numbers (less inflamatory than "mediocore", ne1 garnering a top 10 acceptance is not mediocre docontheroc, douche) who are willing to so openly disclose their private information about their statistics knowing they will most likely foment hatred and jealousy from other ORM premeds. i dont even disclose my stats in person, which are not mediocore by ANYONE's standards, because i know that some entitled ORM premed with a 38 and a 3.7 who thinks they deserve to be accepted to everyschool they apply to will jus get jealous and talk ish about me behind my back. but hey, to each his own.

homie, you got me pegged my recommendation to URMs fomenting hatred and jealously everywhere is to just say "don't hate the player, hate the game"

'mediocre' poor choice of words i guess...unless your ORM, then it might be true

 

[VincentAdultman]

i wonder, given the opportunity, how many MS/residents/fellows/attendings/chairs would tell a premed to take an acceptance to umiami over an acceptance into a 'better' or 'top' school that he/she liked equally, if not more?

why should OP, or anyone for that matter, aspire to anything less just because he hasn't put in an application yet...

I suppose this depends on our friends motivations. If he just wants more money as well as the "s's and g's" of going to a med school that is only "better" in the eyes of USNWR then it's not worth it. The benefit from the resources of going to a place that's "top 15" whatever that means is marginal at best compared to going to Miami. A guy with 40/4.0 type stats, provided he maintains his work ethic will still likely get whatever residency they want in whatever location.

Now if the guy hates Miami, and doesn't think that the school is a good fit for him then by all means go for it. But when you consider that our friend already has a year up on his peers (4+3 vs 4+4) plus the LIKEY 10K for tuition @ UM plus the fact that even with his gaudy stats getting more $ at a "top" school is far from likely, the cost-benefit just doesn't add up in my opinion.

Again, it seems those who say "go for it" are the ones with the least insight (aka premeds).

But if you have those stats, the OP is smarter than to base such a critical decision on a bunch of jerks on the internet.

 

[docontheroc]

I suppose this depends on our friends motivations. If he just wants more money as well as the "s's and g's" of going to a med school that is only "better" in the eyes of USNWR then it's not worth it. The benefit from the resources of going to a place that's "top 15" whatever that means is marginal at best compared to going to Miami. A guy with 40/4.0 type stats, provided he maintains his work ethic will still likely get whatever residency they want in whatever location.

Now if the guy hates Miami, and doesn't think that the school is a good fit for him then by all means go for it. But when you consider that our friend already has a year up on his peers (4+3 vs 4+4) plus the LIKEY 10K for tuition @ UM plus the fact that even with his gaudy stats getting more $ at a "top" school is far from likely, the cost-benefit just doesn't add up in my opinion.

Again, it seems those who say "go for it" are the ones with the least insight (aka premeds).

But if you have those stats, the OP is smarter than to base such a critical decision on a bunch of jerks on the internet.

if you think the only thing 'top schools' have to offer over miami are sh*ts and giggles than im just going to have to respectfully disagree.

i agree with the bold, OP should seek advice elsewhere from superiors at miami and see what they think. i was in a similar situation a year ago, and it was only at the behest of nearly all the MS, docs, PIs, mentors, etc. that i worked with and knew me well that i decided to apply out of a great BA/MD program. it had never even crossed my mind before then because of similar arguments being made in this thread.

 

[Narmerguy]

This scenario ignores the possibility that by going to a better medical school and presumably a better residency that he would potentially be able to land a higher paying job as an attending... Things aren't so cut/dried.

Eh, I'm not so certain that this is probable enough to walk away from what is pretty much a guaranteed $200k+. And the medical school he attends only has a nominal effect on what residency he ends up at and the residency will be a much more important factor in what he can possibly make than med school.

 

[Samoa]

i wonder, given the opportunity, how many MS/residents/fellows/attendings/chairs would tell a premed to take an acceptance to umiami over an acceptance into a 'better' or 'top' school that he/she liked equally, if not more?

The advice in that case is to go to the school where you feel you will perform best academically. Contrary to the prevailing wisdom on this pre-med forum, the name of your school matters a lot less than your performance relative to your classmates. I won't lie: a big name helps a little, but not enough to outweigh mediocre grades, average scores and unexceptional letters of rec.

It is certainly NOT worthwhile to go into $250K-worth of debt to be a middle of the pack graduate of a top 20 school, when you can be a top 25%, AOA graduate of a state school with $100K of debt.

If there's an important difference in research opportunities, or you get a scholarship that equalizes your debt, or there are fantastic international rotations at the name school, or a curriculum or atmosphere you like better, or a well-known advantage in applying to a particular specialty, that's a wholly different matter. But for God's sake, rankings are perhaps the stupidest reason out there to select one school over another.

But the OP's question is not a decision between two acceptance in hand. It's a decision between what he already has vs his chances at getting something better. In that case, in the med school application game, you should never give up a guaranteed acceptance to take your chances on getting something better. Because what you already have is certainly good enough to get you wherever you want to go in medicine. You should ONLY take the chance if you don't have to give up your guaranteed acceptance.

 

[scarletgirl777]

And just what gives you the authority to determine which numbers constitute a "mediocre" applicant per the usual premed criteria, even at top schools? Do you honestly believe that someone with a 3.79 GPA and a 35 on their MCAT is numerically mediocre?

An excellent question. Someone thinks a little too highly of themselves.