Can someone explain to me the appeal of clinical medicine?

[EC3]

Maybe i'm missing something here but the more I go through 3rd year, the more I become convinced that clinical medicine is not the joy parade that some make it out to be. I don't find filling out 10,000 forms to be fun. I don't find unnecessary physical exams on otherwise healthy people to be rewarding. I don't feel fuzzy when I have a patient deliberately not answer my questions because he/she is ticked off they had to wait an hour to get into the free clinic. I don't enjoy repeating every question 5 times and then having the patient draw out every word over 7.5 seconds. I don't enjoy putting a smile on my face when i do not in fact feel joy that Ms. Smith's 7th grandson was just born.

I find that there is a 1 to 10 ratio of favorable patient encounters to enfuriating patient encounters. For each patient that gets better, there are 10 others that refuse to take their meds, refuse to participate in the interview, refuse to keep lists of their 1000 medications, refuse to make lifestyle changes, or refuse to even show up for visits.

So, I would like to ask those out there who value clinical medicine and patient interaction, what's the big appeal? Am I missing something?


and for what it's worth, i've been told i'm a very personable person who interacts well with others. so it's not like i'm some antisocial degenerate.

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[Circumflex]

So, I would like to ask those out there who value clinical medicine and patient interaction, what's the big appeal? Am I missing something?

Why in the heck would you ask this in the Pathology forum? You might find more people who value clinical medicine and patient interaction elsewhere.

 

[EC3]

Why in the heck would you ask this in the Pathology forum? You might find more people who value clinical medicine and patient interaction elsewhere.

There were a few recent posts of people talking about how they liked path but would miss clinical medicine. My post was geared more towards those people.

And re: your question, i've been using the internet long enough to know how to avoid flame-fests. Posting this topic in any other forum is bound to degenerate into insults, etc.

 

[Thaitanium]

Ummm...there is no appeal...

 

[Daddydoc]

I think if people were really honest with themselves there would be very few who actually enjoy clinical medicine. No one wants to own up to not enjoying a profession they have invested so much time and money in. At least, that's my opinion.

 

[Tiki]

I enjoy clinical medicine, although I'll definitely be applying to Path this upcoming year.

But I actually like patients. And I feel like I can empathize with them. Yes, alot of them are non-compliant, but if you actually talk to them without judging them you may fine that some of them have reasons for being non-compliant.

Sure, some of them are nasty. But so are some medical students/doctors. I've learned to laugh off the nasty ones. Kill 'em with sweetness. 9/10 times this works, and I get the patient to relax and smile.

There is most definitely a value in clinical medicine. Being the one to help deliver a baby, comforting someone who has just been diagnosed with cancer, telling a mom that the chemotherapy on her two year old is working...These are all moments I'm going to remember for the rest of my life. And if I didn't love pathology as much as I do, I could definitely see myself going into internal med, but my heart belongs to path.

 

[mlw03]

Maybe i'm missing something here but the more I go through 3rd year, the more I become convinced that clinical medicine is not the joy parade that some make it out to be. I don't find filling out 10,000 forms to be fun. I don't find unnecessary physical exams on otherwise healthy people to be rewarding. I don't feel fuzzy when I have a patient deliberately not answer my questions because he/she is ticked off they had to wait an hour to get into the free clinic. I don't enjoy repeating every question 5 times and then having the patient draw out every word over 7.5 seconds. I don't enjoy putting a smile on my face when i do not in fact feel joy that Ms. Smith's 7th grandson was just born.

I find that there is a 1 to 10 ratio of favorable patient encounters to enfuriating patient encounters. For each patient that gets better, there are 10 others that refuse to take their meds, refuse to participate in the interview, refuse to keep lists of their 1000 medications, refuse to make lifestyle changes, or refuse to even show up for visits.

So, I would like to ask those out there who value clinical medicine and patient interaction, what's the big appeal? Am I missing something?


and for what it's worth, i've been told i'm a very personable person who interacts well with others. so it's not like i'm some antisocial degenerate.

i dunno if the ratio is 1 to 10 - it may be more or less depending on the specialty and setting, but i agree with this sentiment. i do find the 1 to be satisfying, but the 10 are just a pain in my arse. like tiki said, there are appealing and fulfilling moments. i especially enjoyed giving anticipatory guidance to parents on outpatient pediatrics. i made about 25 young parents program the poison control phone number into their cell phones right in front of me. now i hope they never need to use it, but it made me feel good knowing that if little timmy accidentally swallows all of grandpa's digoxin, the parent doesn't have to waste 3-5 minutes looking up the number for poison control. but then i'd have the parent who didn't bring their kid in for the 4 month wcc so the kid was behind on vaccines and i wanted to kill them.

another issue is that we're students, not residents or attendings. i've seen attendings and residents be far more stern with a non-compliant patient than i could ever be as a medical student. so for me, part of the frustration is not being able to lay the smack down on some patient like i'd want to.

 

[yaah]

I would enjoy clinical medicine if I didn't have to deal with inpatient medicine. I always tended to enjoy office practice to some extent (although never loved it), but if I could sort of tailor my own practice somewhat I would probably like it. It is inpatient medicine that would have killed me (and thus, residency).

But I also agree that for every patient that is the joy to help and to save their life or to help them through a tough health crisis, there are 2-3 more who are bitter, angry, rude, conspiracy-theory oriented, or dominated by some other unpleasant personal characteristic.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

I would enjoy clinical medicine if I didn't have to deal with inpatient medicine. I always tended to enjoy office practice to some extent (although never loved it), but if I could sort of tailor my own practice somewhat I would probably like it. It is inpatient medicine that would have killed me (and thus, residency).

But I also agree that for every patient that is the joy to help and to save their life or to help them through a tough health crisis, there are 2-3 more who are bitter, angry, rude, conspiracy-theory oriented, or dominated by some other unpleasant personal characteristic.

See, I didn't like clinics. I didn't mind inpatient stuff...relatively speaking. Overall, I disliked both.

 

[EC3]

I enjoy clinical medicine, although I'll definitely be applying to Path this upcoming year.

But I actually like patients. And I feel like I can empathize with them. Yes, alot of them are non-compliant, but if you actually talk to them without judging them you may fine that some of them have reasons for being non-compliant.

Sure, some of them are nasty. But so are some medical students/doctors. I've learned to laugh off the nasty ones. Kill 'em with sweetness. 9/10 times this works, and I get the patient to relax and smile.

There is most definitely a value in clinical medicine. Being the one to help deliver a baby, comforting someone who has just been diagnosed with cancer, telling a mom that the chemotherapy on her two year old is working...These are all moments I'm going to remember for the rest of my life. And if I didn't love pathology as much as I do, I could definitely see myself going into internal med, but my heart belongs to path.

i guess i lack the energy that you have. "Kill 'em with sweetness" takes a lot out of me; and even if i'm able to do it, at some point i ask myself "Why?".

I guess i just don't find it fun trying to save people from themselves. If you want to eat 5000 calories a day and don't feel the need to visit a gym, that's great, but don't come to clinic and then demand we get your blood pressure and diabetes down as if there is some cure-all against actively trying to kill yourself. Same goes for smokers. If you want to have a 60 pack-year history at 36 y/o, that's fine, but don't keep coming to clinic demanding that we fix your breathing problems while adamantly upholding your right to smoke yourself into oblivion. And it's not like these patients are the outliers, they have become the norm.

 

[sequela]

i don't so much mind the patients. yes there are some difficult people but also some great ones that are a delight. since they tend to cancel eachother out, the patient thing ends up not being a deciding factor for me.

what i truly deplore is actual workday.

for inpatient:

all the f**king rounding. hours on end of time wasted. testing, imaging, changing/adding meds just to feel like you're doing something when nothing can be done (nothing that can help or improve the situation) or nothing should be done (because it will only create more problems).

all the documentation. how many times a day does a person have to say the say the same thing (in addition to it having been said by four other teams) ???...it's just so inefficent and ineffective.


for outpt: again documentation...it's a sad state when you are happy that you have no-shows because it gives you a chance to catch up on your notes....notes, notes and more notes. it's enough to inspire throwing one's computer out the window.

i think clinical medicine turns into people management. if i wanted to be a high-level manager i would have got an mba and a job at a firm/company managing motivated, team-oriented and hard-working people who have a similar goal as myself.

in any case, i think there are some people that do enjoy this micromanaging (both with repsect to the disease and the psychosocial issues) aspect of medicne...maybe they feel like they are "doing" something. i think it attracts people who are "doers"...i on the other hand, enjoy diagnostic work...i am much more of a "thinker" type. and i am certain that my "thinking" will contribute to patient care and that is enough for me.

so yes, i am sure there is some sort of appeal to clinical medicine for some people.

 

[Tiki]

i guess i lack the energy that you have. "Kill 'em with sweetness" takes a lot out of me; and even if i'm able to do it, at some point i ask myself "Why?".

I guess i just don't find it fun trying to save people from themselves. If you want to eat 5000 calories a day and don't feel the need to visit a gym, that's great, but don't come to clinic and then demand we get your blood pressure and diabetes down as if there is some cure-all against actively trying to kill yourself. Same goes for smokers. If you want to have a 60 pack-year history at 36 y/o, that's fine, but don't keep coming to clinic demanding that we fix your breathing problems while adamantly upholding your right to smoke yourself into oblivion. And it's not like these patients are the outliers, they have become the norm.

I guess I see things differently than you. When I have a non-compliant diabetic who is overweight, I try to figure out what is stopping them from doing what they need to do. Is it because they have psychological issues (depression), is it because they can't afford their meds, are they in denial about their issues, or do they just not care? Maybe I'm an optimist, but I feel like most patients have some kind of underlying issue as to why they won't fix their health problems. I don't hate them for that, I think not being perfect is what makes us human.

I guess I should be glad that I'm not jaded and haven't had the humanity beaten out of me yet. I can feel compassion for the majority of folks, because until I've walked a mile in their shoes, it's not my place to judge them.

 

[106174]

I guess I should be glad that I'm not jaded and haven't had the humanity beaten out of me yet. I can feel compassion for the majority of folks, because until I've walked a mile in their shoes, it's not my place to judge them.

Do an Internal Medicine internship and I guarantee you that by the 2nd or 3rd month, you will have lost all your compassion and become jaded like everyone else. Patient care as a medical student can be fun. Patient care as an intern, a resident, and a practitioner is totally different.

 

[poutsara]

some people just love being the doctor. it gives them a higher sense of self worth... the white coat, the stethoscope, the whole fairytale. they love living the myth that you are more valuable to society if you know how to write for maintenance fluids.

 

[Click Here!]

Tiki, what kind of hospitals did you do rotations in? When I was in a private hospital or nice children's hospital, I had no problems empathising or being patient and being a great teacher to my patients. 9/10 of those patients cared. In the county hospital, however, nobody cared and I found it an extremely draining and depressing work environment. I really tried, because poor illegal immigrants deserve great free American healthcare, but by the end I had become jaded like everyone else. Same thing with the outpatient medicaid mills vs. the office in the suburbs. I've wondered if I would've done clinical medicine if I'd gone to a different school.

I'm glad I found pathology early on so there was always a light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[DarksideAllstar]

I enjoyed some aspects of patient care, particularly inpatient medicine and surgery (mainly the surgical oncology portion of my rotation) . I loved working patients up, but for some reason, I just didn't get the same gratification with everything that came after we arrived at a diagnosis. It was great helping people who wanted to be helped, but frustrating otherwise. The attitude of the med onc and surg onc patients was great-- which I guess is why I still can sometimes see myself as an oncologist--but there is no way I could make it through a medicine or surgery residency given all the other BS I'd have to deal with. Part of my experience had to do with the patient population-- most of the patients we had were of the underserved/underprivledged variety (probably around 30% were EtOH or IVD abusers), but even some of the private patients were atrocious and didn't give 2 ****s about their health, which made things even more frustrating. I enjoy talking with people, but some of my interactions with patients sucked the life out of me. Most clinics are routine and boring, the patients can't stay on track with their CC, and you are essentially locked in the clinic for 9 hours until your last circumstantial patient leaves.

Path provided me with an avenue to actually do what I want to do: make a diagnosis and have an impact on patient care. I think that pathology and radiology have the greatest impact on patient care. We can essentially dictate what type of therapy a patient will receive, which to me is one of the most rewarding and humbling aspects of medicine. I wouldn't trade my future job for all the patient interaction/recognition in the world.

 

[Tiki]

Tiki, what kind of hospitals did you do rotations in? When I was in a private hospital or nice children's hospital, I had no problems empathising or being patient and being a great teacher to my patients. 9/10 of those patients cared. In the county hospital, however, nobody cared and I found it an extremely draining and depressing work environment. I really tried, because poor illegal immigrants deserve great free American healthcare, but by the end I had become jaded like everyone else. Same thing with the outpatient medicaid mills vs. the office in the suburbs. I've wondered if I would've done clinical medicine if I'd gone to a different school.

I'm glad I found pathology early on so there was always a light at the end of the tunnel.

I think the reason why I can empathize with the patients, is that I come from a lower middle class background. I had to work full time and go to college full-time to pay my way through school. There were times when I barely had enough money for rent, much less money to go in for my annual physical. I can empathize with these people, because I understand that sometimes life prevents you from doing things that you know you are suppose to do. Some people are just busy trying to stay afloat, and can't really worry that their hemoglobin A1C is elevated.

As for me having an Internal Med residency beat the humanity out of me, maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't. Just because it had that affect on you (Big D), does not mean that it has that affect on everyone. I am not someone that views medicine as my "calling." I view it as a job. I've worked some crappy jobs putting myself through college and medical school (Walmart, waitressing, ect.) and this job is by far the most interesting job I've ever had. Is it perfect? Hell no, there are moments when I hate it like everyone else. But even the rotation I've hated the most (Pyschiatry) is still a hell of alot better than working the cash register at the Walmart.

This isn't meant to offend or point fingers at anyone, but I think when some med students complain...they need a little perspective. They are worse things in life than changing around blood pressure medications.

 

[Tiki]

some people just love being the doctor. it gives them a higher sense of self worth... the white coat, the stethoscope, the whole fairytale. they love living the myth that you are more valuable to society if you know how to write for maintenance fluids.

And I find this statement slightly offensive. Just because someone enjoys clinical medicine does not mean that they think they are more "valuable to society." Personally, I don't feel as if I'm more important to society, and if I was looking for outward prestige, I wouldn't be going into Path. I'd be going into Neurosurg or Derm. I just enjoy learning.

That being said, I'm looking forward to finishing third year.

 

[sequela]

All of my rotations have been done in one hospital, which is located in the poorest area of NJ. In fact, the city I work in has been given the title of most dangerous city in the US for 5/6 years.

I think the reason why I can empathize with the patients, is that I come from a lower middle class background. I had to work full time and go to college full-time to pay my way through school. There were times when I barely had enough money for rent, much less money to go in for my annual physical. I can empathize with these people, because I understand that sometimes life prevents you from doing things that you know you are suppose to do. Some people are just busy trying to stay afloat, and can't really worry that their hemoglobin A1C is elevated.

As for me having an Internal Med residency beat the humanity out of me, maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't. Just because it had that affect on you (Big D), does not mean that it has that affect on everyone. I am not someone that views medicine as my "calling." I view it as a job. I've worked some crappy jobs putting myself through college and medical school (Walmart, waitressing, ect.) and this job is by far the most interesting job I've ever had. Is it perfect? Hell no, there are moments when I hate it like everyone else. But even the rotation I've hated the most (Pyschiatry) is still a hell of alot better than working the cash register at the Walmart.

This isn't meant to offend or point fingers at anyone, but I think when some med students complain...they need a little perspective. They are worse things in life than changing around blood pressure medications.

yes there are worse jobs then changing meds but that is not what this discussion is about. this is about clinical med vs path.

there is no one on this board that would for a moment suggest that working at walmart is a better gig then medicine.

i am sure that at the end of the day, even people in clinical med appreciate the job in this respect.

 

[106174]

As for me having an Internal Med residency beat the humanity out of me, maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't. Just because it had that affect on you (Big D), does not mean that it has that affect on everyone.

This isn't meant to offend or point fingers at anyone, but I think when some med students complain...they need a little perspective. They are worse things in life than changing around blood pressure medications.

Well, good for you - and I mean this in a very good way and I am not being sarcastic at all. I really wish you were not going into Path because we need more clinicians like you.

I was once like you - very empathic, very compassionate, and very idealistic. I went into Internal Medicine telling myself I would never be like the jaded residents and attendings I worked with as a medical student. Unfortunately, I did not win the battle. I slowly got sucked into the system (very much like the old saying "If you can't beat them, join them!").

I've worked with several clinicians and most of them, including dermatologists who supposedly have the easiest life among the patient care specialties, have no time to be empathic. They just want to be in and out, get the work and documentation done, and want their orders and recommendations followed to the dot. There are exceptions but they are few. Maybe you (Tiki) are one of the chosen few - in which case, I would dare say that you would be wasting your special gift (unwavering empathy, patience, and excellent bedside and patient care skills) if you pursued Pathology. People like you in Medicine are so rare nowadays that maybe you should try to win the battle that so many of us lost.

 

[DarksideAllstar]

This isn't meant to offend or point fingers at anyone, but I think when some med students complain...they need a little perspective. They are worse things in life than changing around blood pressure medications.

Yeah, and usually once you graduate from a 4 year university, you don't have to worry about doing any of the things that are "worse than changing around BP meds". Usually you are wondering should I get a PhD? Do I become an engineer or an architect? People aren't complaining that they have the worst job in the world-- they are complaining that they might have picked the worst profession for them.

I come from a lower middle class background. I worked two jobs in college. I worked full time in high school. My life wasn't all fun and games, but I also don't believe that it gives me the right to criticize others for having complaints about a profession or specialty, even if it is better than mopping up **** in an office building.

 

[DarksideAllstar]

And I find this statement slightly offensive. Just because someone enjoys clinical medicine does not mean that they think they are more "valuable to society." Personally, I don't feel as if I'm more important to society, and if I was looking for outward prestige, I wouldn't be going into Path. I'd be going into Neurosurg or Derm. I just enjoy learning.

That being said, I'm looking forward to finishing third year.

What's so offensive about it? Any amount of time spent on the wards would have provided more than one opportunity to meet a resident or attending that demonstrates that kind of arrogance. If you haven't seen it by now, you'll see it more once you are in Pathology and the clinicians all seem to think that you do nothing for patients because you can't write maintenance fluid orders or do post-op wound checks.

 

[mlw03]

you make some good points, BigD. i would counter your suggestion that tiki go into clinical medicine because she appears to have a greater supply of empathy than many practicing clinicians with the fact that just because she has it, doesn't mean she should. by that i just mean that even though she has that level of empathy doesn't mean she shouldn't pursue a non-clinical field like path if that's what turns her on in the morning.

another issue you bring up is the life of the non-academic clinician. i think there is a massive difference between academic and non-academic medicine. the differences are far too many to get into here, but for the purposes of this discussion it's worth considering who's happier. i don't know if there's a simple answer - i've seen happy and miserable academics, and happy and miserable private practice clinicians. many of the outpatient primary care docs that work at the usf clinic and teach seem quite happy. they work 8-5 with not a ton of call, don't have to see 40 patients a day to pay the bills, and get to spend time with their patients and students. however they don't make as much money as some private docs i've seen, especially those that have ARNPs and PAs in their practice.

Well, good for you - and I mean this in a very good way and I am not being sarcastic at all. I really wish you were not going into Path because we need more clinicians like you.

I was once like you - very empathic, very compassionate, and very idealistic. I went into Internal Medicine telling myself I would never be like the jaded residents and attendings I worked with as a medical student. Unfortunately, I did not win the battle. I slowly got sucked into the system (very much like the old saying "If you can't beat them, join them!").

I've worked with several clinicians and most of them, including dermatologists who supposedly have the easiest life among the patient care specialties, have no time to be empathic. They just want to be in and out, get the work and documentation done, and want their orders and recommendations followed to the dot. There are exceptions but they are few. Maybe you (Tiki) are one of the chosen few - in which case, I would dare say that you would be wasting your special gift (unwavering empathy, patience, and excellent bedside and patient care skills) if you pursued Pathology. People like you in Medicine are so rare nowadays that maybe you should try to win the battle that so many of us lost.

 

[veo1]

some people just love being the doctor. it gives them a higher sense of self worth... the white coat, the stethoscope, the whole fairytale. they love living the myth that you are more valuable to society if you know how to write for maintenance fluids.

Spot on!

 

[106174]

another issue you bring up is the life of the non-academic clinician. i think there is a massive difference between academic and non-academic medicine. i don't know if there's a simple answer - i've seen happy and miserable academics, and happy and miserable private practice clinicians.

most academic medicine programs in the country have satellite private practice clinics. i trained at a program where we did our continuity clinic at such places. so the clinicians i worked with there were not academics. and i was not talking about happiness and job satisfaction per se. yes, they had very good hours, in fact better than a lot of pathologists, and they seemed like they were happy. but i could tell that a lot of them had lost the empathy and humanity that we are talking about on this thread. to them, patients were disease entities and cases and not really human beings. they had no time to listen to what patients had to say. if the patient was there for back pain, never mind that he was also having intermittent headaches or any other symptoms he might have. after the chief complaint had been addressed, the patient was sent home. wholistic medicine was not practiced. if you were a medical student observing that, you would be completely turned off. and since a medical student has the time to spare, s/he will usually talk to the patient after the attending had left and will be compassionate and compensate for whatever shortcomings s/he thought the attending had. then s/he tells him/herself that s/he would never become like his/her attending. day 1 of internship and s/he gets 10 patients to round on, or is on call and gets 5 admissions overnight and does not get to sleep, or s/he is in clinic and is asked to see 10 patients, all with syndrome X and each with 20 medications on board - all of a sudden, the picture changes. some people figure it out quickly and get out. some get disillusioned but realize they really like patient care and so they decide to live with it although they do end up complaining a lot, and then others just do not have options at all and so they stay and become miserable, and then there are the very few who actually are able give themselves wholeheartedly to their patients (but then again, these are the same people who would spend an hour on each patient, making all the others wait forever). this reminds me of my heme-onc attending - great bedside manners, very good to her patients, listens to everything they had to say, but never left the hospital earlier than 10 pm.

 

[DarksideAllstar]

most academic medicine programs in the country have satellite private practice clinics. i trained at a program where we did our continuity clinic at such places. so the clinicians i worked with there were not academics. and i was not talking about happiness and job satisfaction per se. yes, they had very good hours, in fact better than a lot of pathologists, and they seemed like they were happy. but i could tell that a lot of them had lost the empathy and humanity that we are talking about on this thread. to them, patients were disease entities and cases and not really human beings. they had no time to listen to what patients had to say. if the patient was there for back pain, never mind that he was also having intermittent headaches or any other symptoms he might have. after the chief complaint had been addressed, the patient was sent home. wholistic medicine was not practiced. if you were a medical student observing that, you would be completely turned off. and since a medical student has the time to spare, s/he will usually talk to the patient after the attending had left and will be compassionate and compensate for whatever shortcomings s/he thought the attending had. then s/he tells him/herself that s/he would never become like his/her attending. day 1 of internship and s/he gets 10 patients to round on, or is on call and gets 5 admissions overnight and does not get to sleep, or s/he is in clinic and is asked to see 10 patients, all with syndrome X and each with 20 medications on board - all of a sudden, the picture changes. some people figure it out quickly and get out. some get disillusioned but realize they really like patient care and so they decide to live with it although they do end up complaining a lot, and then others just do not have options at all and so they stay and become miserable, and then there are the very few who actually are able give themselves wholeheartedly to their patients (but then again, these are the same people who would spend an hour on each patient, making all the others wait forever). this reminds me of my heme-onc attending - great bedside manners, very good to her patients, listens to everything they had to say, but never left the hospital earlier than 10 pm.

 

[Tiki]

My life wasn't all fun and games, but I also don't believe that it gives me the right to criticize others for having complaints about a profession or specialty, even if it is better than mopping up **** in an office building.

I'm not criticizing them. Saying they need a little perspective is not criticizing someone. If I was criticizing them, I'd say they were stupid if they thought medicine was going to be anything different that what it was. How could you not know going into it that you are going to be dealing with non-compliant, overweight, apathetic, whiny, complaining people at some point during your training? Do you live in the same world as I do?

But I didn't say that.

Anyway, I'm not here to debate. I like clinical medicine, but I love path.

 

[Tiki]

I've worked with several clinicians and most of them, including dermatologists who supposedly have the easiest life among the patient care specialties, have no time to be empathic. They just want to be in and out, get the work and documentation done, and want their orders and recommendations followed to the dot. There are exceptions but they are few. Maybe you (Tiki) are one of the chosen few - in which case, I would dare say that you would be wasting your special gift (unwavering empathy, patience, and excellent bedside and patient care skills) if you pursued Pathology. People like you in Medicine are so rare nowadays that maybe you should try to win the battle that so many of us lost.

Whoaaaa, I never said I have unwavering empathy, patience and excellent bedside manner and patient skills. Like I said, there are times when I hate it as well. Overall, I enjoy it, and I can leave at the end of the day seeing the positives. And while I like clinical medicine, I love pathology. I'm not going to change my future plans just because I like people.

And I'm not disagreeing with you when you say that many people change over their career. Maybe I would become bitter if I went into it as my career. I'll never know. I guess I'm grateful that I've gotten through my third year without letting myself become jaded. Maybe I've just had the fortune of working with some really great people.

 

[106174]

I guess I'm grateful that I've gotten through my third year without letting myself become jaded. Maybe I've just had the fortune of working with some really great people.

And most of us do get out of 3rd year with such high ideals, that is why a ton of people each year still apply to primary care specialties, eager and ready to effect change, only to be eaten up, sooner or later, by the system.

You are lucky to have made the right choice early on!

 

[DarksideAllstar]

I'm not criticizing them. Saying they need a little perspective is not criticizing someone. If I was criticizing them, I'd say they were stupid if they thought medicine was going to be anything different that what it was. How could you not know going into it that you are going to be dealing with non-compliant, overweight, apathetic, whiny, complaining people at some point during your training? Do you live in the same world as I do?

But I didn't say that.

Anyway, I'm not here to debate. I like clinical medicine, but I love path.

Prior to actually having any resemblance of patient care responsibility, you cannot fathom how you will react when patients are non-compliant or don't give two ****s about taking care of themselves. I hardly believe that an undergrad can have any meaningful volunteer or shadowing activities to help them experience this. Almost all of my work in undegrad was in Peds (for four years), and so no, I didn't get all that much adult medicine exposure to the lazy, non-compliant drug-seeking patients that we see on a routine. Its no big surprise that med school isn't what most people think it is going to be, myself included, and why the majority become jaded, in addition to the financial reasons.

BTW, your posts come off as condescending and critical no matter how much you think they aren't.

DA out.

 

[DarksideAllstar]

And most of us do get out of 3rd year with such high ideals, that is why a ton of people each year still apply to primary care specialties, eager and ready to effect change, only to be eaten up, sooner or later, by the system.

You are lucky to have made the right choice early on!

Actually, I think most people go into IM with the idea that they'll do a cards fellowship in order to pick up chicks.

 

[Tiki]

Prior to actually having any resemblance of patient care responsibility, you cannot fathom how you will react when patients are non-compliant or don't give two ****s about taking care of themselves. I hardly believe that an undergrad can have any meaningful volunteer or shadowing activities to help them experience this. Almost all of my work in undegrad was in Peds (for four years), and so no, I didn't get all that much adult medicine exposure to the lazy, non-compliant drug-seeking patients that we see on a routine. Its no big surprise that med school isn't what most people think it is going to be, myself included, and why the majority become jaded, in addition to the financial reasons.

BTW, your posts come off as condescending and critical no matter how much you think they aren't.

DA out.

Whatever, dude. You know what, maybe I am condescending and critical about people who have nothing better to do but complain all day. Life is short. People are taken away from us far too soon. I have better things to do with my life than sit and complain about something I've chosen to do. And I shouldn't have to listen to people bitching all the time. I'm sorry that your medical school experience was so horrible. I've enjoyed mine. If that makes me condescending and critical, so be it.

So now I'm out, before I get attacked some more for my personal opinion.

 

[sequela]

I have better things to do with my life than sit and complain about something I've chosen to do. And I shouldn't have to listen to people bitching all the time.

if you don't want to hear people bitching on this topic then why are you even reading this thread????? it's clear from the title what direction it's going to take, esp on a pathology forum.

also, i don't know a single med student who truly knew or could anticipate what the particulars of medical training would be like.


i'm glad you enjoyed your experience and seriously, it would be a diservice to humanity if you didn't go into clinical medicine...i have never met anyone in path this ernest about clinical medicine/patient care.

 

[Tiki]

if you don't want to hear people bitching on this topic then why are you even reading this thread????? it's clear from the title what direction it's going to take, esp on a pathology forum.

also, i don't know a single med student who truly knew or could anticipate what the particulars of medical training would be like.


i'm glad you enjoyed your experience and seriously, it would be a diservice to humanity if you didn't go into clinical medicine...i have never met anyone in path this ernest about clinical medicine/patient care.

So I had a nasty reply all written up, to counter your nasty reply, but it's not worth it. You know what they say about arguing on the internet...

I apologize if I offended anyone with my comments, but I'm not going to change my future plans because of some backhanded compliment. Thanks and have a nice day.

Oh, and for the record, the bitching comment was NOT meant towards the people who have posted on this thread. It was meant in general, towards those medical students who constantly complain and whine about everything.

 

[yaah]

Let's just say we're all a bit condescending and leave it at that. This discussion isn't going to get anywhere or solve anything.