Complete can someone explain

[deleted1020345]

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[Mr.Smile12]

I already posted in pre-pharm forum, but would appreciate hearing an advice through confidential consult.

I assumed that completing a four year doctor of pharmacy (PharmD) degree opens to opportunities (with a set salary, and that as long as we work the hours we get paid a certain amount) than industry in terms of the jobs we ultimately perform. The time we spend through professional school will lead to a rewarding career afterwards. And I'm familiar enough with the typical pharmD curriculum and outcomes. On the other hand, I feel that the masters route is riskier with more unknown in the future, because there doesn't seem to be as much structure and rigor compared to pharmD. And I don't really see the point of doing a duel degree with pharmD because it's not really what the degree states that is going to matter to me as much as the actual skills I learn in school; at least to me that's how it seems. The priority then is doing the pharmD because of the value of the degree, and only if necessary will I consider MSPS (masters in pharmaceutical sciences).

Here are my questions related to the masters:

- First, I understand the difference being that this route is more research based and can lead to more industry related jobs. I just cannot see the exact layout of a diagram for the exact steps that someone may typically go through.
For example, is it something like this? Take 30-40 units of classes --> write any papers required --> obtain masters -->, look for internship opportunities in pharmaceutical companies --> work for a year or a summer of the internship, and decide if to apply for PhD in the meantime.

- Also, can someone give me specific examples of job descriptions to tasks we may be doing for a position at a pharmaceutical company? Would you say some of them are harder or easier than working at a retail pharmacy like CVS; or any of the jobs that we can do with a pharmD?

- Is there an academic counselor we can find through a private organization somewhere other than undergraduate schools, where they can assess our skills and let us know what are our real strengths are weaknesses? I think in the past psychologists have gave me some suggestions and say that I'm smart. But that is still very vague and it would help to know exactly in what way because people are really born differently.

Of course, the most important is to be well-liked and have good, trustworthy relationships developed. I feel that this is the most crucial aspect that I've been trying to maintain in the pharmacy community I encounter. But sometimes it's hard - may have something to do with me personally, or may not. Or it may be that positions are very limited for pharmacists and people are being weeded out and I'm one of them. Please be honest but also be friendly if you're replying to this. Please also do not suggest alternate programs other than what's discussed here (PA, NP etc.) because it would be irrelevant. I can ask about that on another forum.

Thank you!

I will agree that there are no guarantees anymore in pharmacy with respect to a job (frankly in any job nowadays). There are many career paths, and you can find it in the Explore Health Careers website. I'm also certain the Pharmacy4me.org site probably can give you a little insight about masters degrees in pharmacy. The level of questions you have posted here still sound like you do need basic information that would probably be addressed at first glance there and at recruitment events.

Every masters curriculum is a little different from each other, but this is why networking is critical. They will help anyone who is interested but you need to show up prepared and confident.

I also would never fully trust an academic counselor to give you a battery of tests to see if you were prepared for pharmacy as a career. Frankly they have their tests already: grades and PCAT.

Go to your career counselor on campus for your job description exercise. It's not hard for that person to show you how to do it.

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[lord999]

I can give a fairly detailed answer, but if you look up my profile, I have done so multiple times in the forums on research and industry careers that you should look at. To help focus my answer, what is your desired end state and why? A job in industry or academia, or a particular kind of work (research, marketing, or analysis)? If research, what topics seem broadly interesting and your background in them?

Unfortunately at the level of industry or academia, the baseline level of intelligence, ambition, and work ethic is probably in the top 5-10% already. If you choose to make that area a career field, those characteristics do not distinguish you. What else would you bring to the table?

Also, the days of the PharmD being singularly necessary for research have passed due to changes in the curriculum to deemphasize basic science in favor of clinical. While this is the right decision for the vast majority of students going into practice, it puts potential graduate students at a disadvantage. NIH does recognize the PharmD as a terminal degree, but the number of PI's who are purely PharmD's are less than 10 as R01 PI's, and there are all old. Almost all are PharmD/PhD's.

Finally, I never suggest taking any of the clinical degrees (BSN, PharmD, MS PA, MD, DO) without any intention of working as one. If pure research or academia is your goal, there are more direct pathways than that and your analysis of the PharmD should lead you to the conclusion that the curriculum does not directly support a non-practicing career very well.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thank you, for sincerely and kindly replying! Before I elaborate more you may have seen my older posts in confidential consult as well to see a fuller picture of me. It sounds like I'm speaking in unfocused unassertive vague ways because often times I'm just not confident in what I believe what I'm good at and am working on currently. And I had bad experiences recently as well but I will keep that confidential here. You know,
the people I'm with...this can really make a difference. I've struggled and honestly I never want to be punished for trying to attain my goals that's why I go around verifying everything to make sure I'm on track and obtaining info. I actually emailed a coordinator today from the Medical Science Liaison society to see if they can give me some guidance towards that or pharmaceutical company jobs. Though to be on the safe side picking a clinical degree to follow through the curriculum may be best for me because unless I break the law or something really bad happens I won't be fired too easily. I cannot afford to wander more years. But again, I have to be good at my job and no one can do it alone and to succeed a person must be well-liked in their field. I hope next year will be better :'/ because I'm seeing a doctor tomorrow and will then go find in person help to discuss about these. And you don't have to reply further as of now I should probably learn more and post an update before any more discussion on here.

Hope your doctor's visit goes well. In my opinion, your personal and mental health must take priority over any job search journey or professional education. Too much burnout in health care, and it is not worth a lifetime of debt and additional stress.

On the Medical Science Liaison front, you're going to have to learn a lot more about the product pipeline and business trends that you won't likely get in Pharmacy School. The MSLS folks will tell you that.

I would look into roles in contract research organizations as well, many of whom want pharmacists. Again you have experts suggesting resources to you, and it seems like you would rather complain about your situation and lack of opportunities rather than do the work given some excellent resources others suggest for you. Success doesn't happen without some struggling (babies don't naturally walk), but you have to show some willingness to listen and do the work asked of you or no one will ever think of hiring you. And outside of academia, referrals are the most efficient to get consideration for a job.

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[deleted1020345]

Thanks! The best answers would still come from the confidential consult. I'm really not sure about he general forum. Also from another thread I posted earlier I was recommended w psychiatric/psychology professional to talk to. I haven't found a PhD psychologist who is able to guide me through career development during in-person sessions. And I wanted to clarify that because of that, I'm asking more questions and typing more than I probably would. But none of this are complaints or meant to be negative at all.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thanks! The best answers would still come from the confidential consult. I'm really not sure about he general forum. Also from another thread I posted earlier I was recommended w psychiatric/psychology professional to talk to. I haven't found a PhD psychologist who is able to guide me through career development during in-person sessions. And I wanted to clarify that because of that, I'm asking more questions and typing more than I probably would. But none of this are complaints or meant to be negative at all.

I previously suggested Explore Health Careers. Here's some basic information about the careers:
Psychologist: Psychologist
Psychiatrist (DO/MD): Psychiatrist – DO/MD

Now your issue is also with actually leveraging the opportunity for networking. Most professionals are not going to want to walk someone through every single step of career development, especially if they don't see your value or worth to the profession. Is it the way you present yourself? How do you ask someone for help on this matter? From what you've written previously and above, if I only had 10 minutes to talk with you, I wouldn't because it sounds like you will take a lot more of my time and energy. Seriously, you HAVE to do your homework first.

You previously asked: "Also, can someone give me specific examples of job descriptions to tasks we may be doing for a position at a pharmaceutical company? Would you say some of them are harder or easier than working at a retail pharmacy like CVS; or any of the jobs that we can do with a pharmD?" I pointed out pharmacy4me as a resource but there is no standard job description in pharma/biotech. Some companies are start-ups and some are huge mega-billion corrporations. Each will have a different culture and different hierarchy, and those will change as the industry changes (mergers/acquisitions, technology, regulations in US and EU and Asia). The best advice I could give you is to actually search for pharma companies you want to work for, go to their websites, and search for positions that you think you would be interested in. Write everything down on a big spreadsheet. Again, no one can do your homework, but if this is what you want to do, you will find a way to do it.