Can you do a different residency after USUHS or H

[browneyes124]

Ok say you got accepted into USUHS but you also wanted to do a certain surgical residency. Could you something thats more military friend at the time like general surgery then once your commitment is up do the specialty you wanted?

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[sonofva]

I think that once you complete a surgical residency you will probably not want to do another specialty

 

[browneyes124]

I think that once you complete a surgical residency you will probably not want to do another specialty

Why do you say that?

 

[Gastrapathy]

Because residency is indentured servitude, surgical residencies are particularly challenging and you probably won't want to start up again from the bottom of the mountain.

 

[backrow]

Ok say you got accepted into USUHS but you also wanted to do a certain surgical residency. Could you something thats more military friend at the time like general surgery then once your commitment is up do the specialty you wanted?

I don't know of many surgical specialties the military doesn't have.

 

[dwb8p]

Yes it is possible, and in the military not uncommon. I have met several O5 and O6 physicians that have completed a second residency in preventive medicine, radiology, and even psychiatry. One was a former neurosurgeon.

 

[jabreal00]

Ok say you got accepted into USUHS but you also wanted to do a certain surgical residency. Could you something thats more military friend at the time like general surgery then once your commitment is up do the specialty you wanted?

If I am not mistaken, you can but you'd have to complete your ADSO in your first residency before you can go for a second one. When my wife was an AF anesthesia resident and there were several LTC who had primary residencies in IM or FP doing residency again. For HPSP folks this is doable if they did a short residency (IM, FP, Peds) and only have 3-4 years after training to reapply. However, an USUHS grad who does general surgery (5-7 years depending on research or a utilization tour after internship) plus 7 years after training, they'd be doing another residency at 12-14 years later.

 

[browneyes124]

If I am not mistaken, you can but you'd have to complete your ADSO in your first residency before you can go for a second one. When my wife was an AF anesthesia resident and there were several LTC who had primary residencies in IM or FP doing residency again. For HPSP folks this is doable if they did a short residency (IM, FP, Peds) and only have 3-4 years after training to reapply. However, an USUHS grad who does general surgery (5-7 years depending on research or a utilization tour after internship) plus 7 years after training, they'd be doing another residency at 12-14 years later.

Did your wife do HPSP? I'm very interested in neurosurgery so if I did do another residency through hpsp and then got out an did a civilian neurosurgery residency, would it be possible to go back in the military as a neurosurgeon ?

 

[browneyes124]

I don't know of many surgical specialties the military doesn't have.

Well I'm interested in neurosurgery but the navy only has 1 spot and I heard the case load is very small ( normally 2 cases a month )

 

[backrow]

A residency with only 2 cases a month wouldn't keep their accreditation for very long. It may not be the same as a level 1 trauma center, but it's certainly more than 2 a month.

 

[sonofva]

My advice to you is to decide wether doing neurosurgery is absolutely more important than being an army officer... If it is, than stay civilian and look into programs like the fap. If it isn't, than just bust your a$$, get into a decent md school where you get top of your class and crush your boards...and then be ok if it doesn't work out that you will go out to GMO or a different specialty. If you end up doing a different specialty, I would advise that it not be surgical, because those are long and hard and would be a colossal waste if you didn't intend on using it for the long run.

Tldr- don't take HPSP if you are absolutely dead set on one specialty/can't tolerate an flexibility in your life plans

 

[colbgw02]

Yeah, first of all, there are no surgical residencies anywhere in the U.S. that even sniff 2 cases per month and keep their accreditation.

Secondly, most military neurosurgeons are deferred to civilian programs for their training. That one "Navy" spot in D.C. is really a joint position, meaning the entirety of military GME is only training one neurosurgeon per year, so most of the military's neurosurgical training requirements are coming through deferred residents.

Thirdly, most of the people referenced in this thread are doing second residencies while on active duty. This is different than separating and then doing a second residency because the pay is much better (the physician can usually sign an MSP bonus prior to entering the second residency) and the second residency years count toward retirement.

Lastly, it's not so much that what you're describing can't be done - it's just that it's crazy. I don't think I can explain why or how unless you have some familiarity with GME, but no one goes into a first residency already knowing they're going to do a second one, from scratch, a few years down the road. People have changes of heart all the time or they realize they actually hated their first specialty, but no one who wants to be a neurosurgeon just decides to spend 7-10 years biding their time as a family practioner or whatever. And they certainly don't go through all of the hassle of becoming a fully trained surgeon or surgical subspecialist with the idea of retraining for 7 years to be a neurosurgeon.

 

[browneyes124]

Do USUHS students get civilian deferments because I heard that's mostly just HPSP? Except for the pay back time is there a big difference in these programs?

 

[backrow]

So, I guess if your letter says that your chance of getting in is very strong and mine doesn't, then the list is ranked...and I'm not that high on the list. oh well, I guess I have to accept that I probably will not be there next year.

Yes, they can get deferments; however, it is very rare.

 

[notdeadyet]

People have changes of heart all the time or they realize they actually hated their first specialty, but no one who wants to be a neurosurgeon just decides to spend 7-10 years biding their time as a family practioner or whatever. And they certainly don't go through all of the hassle of becoming a fully trained surgeon or surgical subspecialist with the idea of retraining for 7 years to be a neurosurgeon.

It is also worth noting that neurosurgery on the civilian side is one of the most competitive specialties to match into. A second-specialty applicant who is 8-10 years out of medical school is going to be a real risk for many programs.

Agree with the above. Doing HPSP with the plan to do a second neurosurgery after military service is a pretty awful idea.


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[jabreal00]

Did your wife do HPSP? I'm very interested in neurosurgery so if I did do another residency through hpsp and then got out an did a civilian neurosurgery residency, would it be possible to go back in the military as a neurosurgeon ?

Yes she was HPSP but she stuck with Anesthesia and did a fellowship. It is more likely to do a second residency through the military than on the civilian side due to Medicare matching funds used to sponsor residencies (this is why there are limited residency spots every year on the civilian side). In the military you would have to pay back your time in your primary specialty before you can have the opportunity to do a second one through the military. In this scenario you would not get a neurosurgical residency if you opted to try on the civilian side. On the military side it would be extremely difficult. You would be 7-10 years outside of medical school assuming you did 4 year HPSP and a 3-4 year residency. Your scores would have to be out of this world with serious research and publications. However if one is that stellar, then apply for neurosurgery out of medical school. Sorry but your idea is not realistic and practically not feasible. It makes no sense.

 

[browneyes124]

Yes she was HPSP but she stuck with Anesthesia and did a fellowship. It is more likely to do a second residency through the military than on the civilian side due to Medicare matching funds used to sponsor residencies (this is why there are limited residency spots every year on the civilian side). In the military you would have to pay back your time in your primary specialty before you can have the opportunity to do a second one through the military. In this scenario you would not get a neurosurgical residency if you opted to try on the civilian side. On the military side it would be extremely difficult. You would be 7-10 years outside of medical school assuming you did 4 year HPSP and a 3-4 year residency. Your scores would have to be out of this world with serious research and publications. However if one is that stellar, then apply for neurosurgery out of medical school. Sorry but your idea is not realistic and practically not feasible. It makes no sense.

Since there is only 1 neurosurgery spot in each branch, Is it true that if you don't get that spot then you might have to wait a few years for that spot?

 

[jabreal00]

Since there is only 1 neurosurgery spot in each branch, Is it true that if you don't get that spot then you might have to wait a few years for that spot?

Yes. If you don't match then you'd do a transitional year and have another opportunity for the match. If you don't match again then you'd be a GMO (general medical officer) for 2 years before you can reapply for the match. You may have a better chance at trying to get a deferred slot out of medical school and trying for it on the civilian side.

 

[browneyes124]

Yes. If you don't match then you'd do a transitional year and have another opportunity for the match. If you don't match again then you'd be a GMO (general medical officer) for 2 years before you can reapply for the match. You may have a better chance at trying to get a deferred slot out of medical school and trying for it on the civilian side.

Do you know if deferrals apply to USUHS or just HPSP?

 

[backrow]

Do you know if deferrals apply to USUHS or just HPSP?

USUHS students may apply for deferral. It is very rare, but it has happened in the past.

 

[jabreal00]

Do you know if deferrals apply to USUHS or just HPSP?

As stated above. It all really depends on needs of what ever service you are in.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

If your goal is be a neurosurgeon, then don't join the military. The odds are terrible. Just don't do it.

 

[browneyes124]

If your goal is be a neurosurgeon, then don't join the military. The odds are terrible. Just don't do it.

Are you talking about case load or actually getting the spot ?

 

[browneyes124]

Is there a really big difference between USUHS and HPSP other then the commitment time?

 

[colbgw02]

Is there a really big difference between USUHS and HPSP other then the commitment time?

Short answer: yes.

Long answer: yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssss.

 

[colbgw02]

Are you talking about case load or actually getting the spot ?

He's obviously talking about getting the spot/deferred.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

Are you talking about case load or actually getting the spot ?

Both. Some things just aren't a good fit and/or aren't likely in the military and this is one of them. By joining the military you are decreasing you access to getting a spot at a good program with good training and good volume. That is an indisputable fact.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

Is there a really big difference between USUHS and HPSP other then the commitment time?

Seriously??? HPSP has a 4 year commitment, USUHS has 7 years. There's a lot of good info in the stickies on this site.