Can you find Jordanians here?

[IgR]

Hello Rox...
The most confusing issue to me is the matching...
When you apply to any program.. what are the "things" taken into consideration..as for USMLE mark, activities...?

If you wanna for e.g. gastroenterology or cardiology.. do you apply for internal medicine and then after that during internal medicine residency you can choose the subspecialty? or you have to specify it from the very beginning? That matters because you don't wanna lose years in internal medicine for a sub that you don't want...

Is it true that interventional cardiology is not available for IMGs or at least very hard to achieve.. and that even in gastroenterology because you're not American they won't teach you endoscopies... and so on...?

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[rox]

When you apply to any program.. what are the "things" taken into consideration..as for USMLE mark, activities...?

These are the most important factors:
1. USMLE scores.
2. US clinical experience.
3. Letter of recommendation.
4. Being ECFMG-certified.

Others include:
4. Research projects and publications.
5. Your performence during interviews.
6. Extracurricular activities.

If you wanna for e.g. gastroenterology or cardiology.. do you apply for internal medicine and then after that during internal medicine residency you can choose the subspecialty? or you have to specify it from the very beginning?

You basically apply for Internal medicine(3 years) first. While you are a resident, you apply for the fellowship you want. Fellowships vary in length.

Is it true that interventional cardiology is not available for IMGs or at least very hard to achieve..

As a matter of fact, Cardiology and GI are known to be the most competitive IM fellowships. However, that doesn't mean that you will be excluded because you are an IMG. Actually, many IMG's match into these 2 fellowships. I wouldn't be worried much about it.

and that even in gastroenterology because you're not American they won't teach you endoscopies... and so on...?

I think this quite untrue.

 

[IgR]

Thanks a lot.. That helped me a lot...

Another question please.... Did you decide where to go for elective?

What are the programs that do not require USMLE step 1?

Of these what is the status of malpractice insurance in each.. is it on applicant or on university?

Where do most of Jordanians do their electives?

The letter of recommendation.. is it necessary from the hospital you wanna train in???

(May be very simple questions.. but really I can't find the answer)...

 

[rox]

Check out this link: http://services.aamc.org/eec/students/

You can find the med schools that offer clinical electives and all their requirements. You can also visit the homepage of each med school.

You have to obtain a malpractice insurance for most of the schools. There are some few exceptions.

I'm afraid I didn't get your question regarding the LOR.

P.S these issues have been discussed several times before. I recommend you search through this forum.

 

[IgR]

Thanks for your help Rox.

Did you do your elective? If yes, plz tell me about it.

 

[rox]

Not yet, hope by the end of this year...best wishes

 

[IgR]

Hi Rox,

In relation to the letter of recommendation, is it necessary to get them from US? and is it necessary from the field you wanna specialize in (e.g internal medicine LOR and you wanna peds or sth)? What about LOR from your own uni?

Some people go for research electives, some also take part in researches made in Jordan? What is the value of these? Did you go in any kind of research yourself? And when they say "research", what is a medical student role in research? data collection? or being a lab rat? or working with the consultant in a more advanced role?

Finally I have to ask... Wahat is the weight of LOR source, research in matching?

Thanx for your help...

 

[rox]

First of all I have to let you know that your questions have been all answered previously by more senior people in this forum. So I'm not probably the best one to answer them, but I will comment according to what I have read/heard:

In relation to the letter of recommendation, is it necessary to get them from US?

Basically, you submit 4 LOR's. There's no rule about where they should come from. However, The more US LOR's, the better.

and is it necessary from the field you wanna specialize in (e.g internal medicine LOR and you wanna peds or sth)?

Again, it is not a must. You can ask specific question about the LOR's in the ERAS forum. I have little experience here.

What about LOR from your own uni?

You need a letter from your Dean anyways. This is no big deal.

If you don't have enough US LOR's, then you will have to include other LOR's from local attendings. Local LOR's are less valued.

Some people go for research electives, some also take part in researches made in Jordan? What is the value of these?

Research elective over clinical elective? NO.

Research in general helps. If you have time, go for it. General thoughts:
1. US research is preferred over local one.
2. Basic science is more valued.
3. Get published.

And when they say "research", what is a medical student role in research? data collection? or being a lab rat? or working with the consultant in a more advanced role?

Depends on the type and place of research. I don't have much info/experience.

Wahat is the weight of LOR source, research in matching?

LOR's are important, especially from US attendings. Research could help depending on the factors previously addressed and wether the place you're applying for is actually interested in research!

 

[IgR]

Thanks a lot Rox... and Happy Eid...

I know there are many threads about what I had asked, and have read many, but I needed info about Jordan specifically, you know much of those threads are for US students or IMGs in general, and the situation here in Jordan is not much different but not exactly the same...

And don't forget that an advice form a USMLE 99'er like you is worth it (you're a 99'er aren't you?) ...

 

[rox]

Agreed. Wish you the best and don't hesitate to ask any questions. I just meant that you might find more accurate information.

 

[IgR]

Not yet, hope by the end of this year...best wishes

So, you didn't have electives yet... but may I ask.. Did you decide where to go? Or have you been accepted in some? Plz share your experience..

 

[rox]

I decided first where I wanted to go according to the requirements I meet, then applied. I applied for another place as a back-up. I got accepted in both places, but I'm going for my first choice.

Decide first that you want to go to the states, then check the places that you meet their requirements, apply for one or two places when time comes and that's it

 

[CrazEE Urduniya]

Salamz!

I was born and raised in the United States, and I was wondering if I should consider pursuing my dream of obtaining my medical degree in Jordan considering the fact that it only takes a total of 6 years in opposed to the grueling 8 to 12 years it would take me here in the United States. ( 4 years of Uni., 4 years of medical school IF you pass the MCAT exam and meet their requirements, and another 2-4 years according to specialization and residency= INSANITY!!!)

I visit Jordan every summer and I am obsessed with the language( al-7amidillah I am highly fluent in Arabic, although that doesn't really matter seeing that medicine is taught in English ), the culture ( I may live in America bas I still have Old World values), the people, and the food ( MANSAF, wallah ellak wa7shay hehehe), y3anni let's just say I'm enough Urdunized ( lol, I created a word like "Americanized") to pass for a natural-born Jordanian, no one ever believes me whenever I say I am from America...unfortunately, because I did not take the Tawjeehi exam in Jordan and I graduated highschool in the States my tuition rates are triple what they would normally be for a Jordanian citizen ( I hold dual citizenship in America and in Jordan ), but I figure I would probably be paying the same for the 12 years of schooling here in the U.S. as for the 6 years in Jordan....bas to me TIME is money and I do not want to end up having my first child in my late 30's! As you all know, marriage at such an old age is taboo in Arabic culture, 5asoosan 3end el Urduniyah

But before I kill you guys with my life story, I just wanted to say that honestly from what I have heard and seen, the medical route in Jordan is one of reward and prestige ... in fact, many American doctors envy Jordanian doctors who come from Jordan to get their license in America because although its only 6 years in Jordan, those 6 years are compacted and condensed with the same information PROBABLY even more than what the American medical students are receiving for their dollar, you guys might have hated the Tawjeehi exam and the whole 3elmi and adabi division but you better thank the Hashemite Kingdom for that because they saved you time and money, poor Americans spend years following the wrong route blindly and wasting money before realizing they are not qualified for the degree, American Uni's are a scam. My parents are not encouraging me to go to Jordan because they see no point in me, an American citizen, going abroad when alot of Jordanians are sending off their children to America to obtain professional degrees. WALLAH MANI 3ARAFY!!!!!!! Please I am in desperate need of advice! As a fellow Jordanian, I urge you to be honest and I appreciate any reply! Should I go to Jordan to obtain my medical degree, and if so how will I fix the financial issue in regards to tuition....also I am used to the instructional techniques used by the professors in America, I am afraid if I go to Jordan I will not be able to adapt to their teaching methods ! PLEASE HELP, my future depends on your advice!


Hadeal from Dallas, TX bas my heart remains in Jordan......
Wow I wrote a novel!

 

[rox]

Hi there. A few issues to consider:

1. The shortest and cheapest pathway is to do med school in Jordan, then residency in the states.

2. If you go to med school in Jordan and come back to USA, you'll be always labeled as an international grad. This will make it tough to go into residency, but if you managed to match into a residency program then it wont matter anymore.

3. As an international grad your options are pretty much limited to a few non-competitive specialties like Pediatrics and Internal medicine. Getting into those few specialties wont be a problem, but imagine what will happen if you dont like them and you want to get into another more interesting field which will be very hard for u to get into as an international grad. Your life will turn into misery. Plus, those non-competetive specialities have lower salaries.

4. The pathway you dont want to end up with is med school and residency in Jordan.

5. Regarding those 2 years, you're gonna end up with 8 years from Jordan because you wont be able to take the US exams until u graduate from Jordan. So if you were lucky to match from first time, you'll join a program exactly 2 years after you graduation date from Jordan. You dont need to worry about the details of this time frame...but believe me, you'll spend 8 years before joining a residency program.

6. Bottom line, I wouldn't go to Jordan unless it was impossible to financially afford med school in the states.

 

[CrazEE Urduniya]

Thanks alot, Rox! I appreciate the VERY early reply and the very useful advice, wallahi to tell you the honest truth the only reason I even considered obtaining my medical doctor in Jordan was for two factors: time and family......

I do not want to spend the rest of my life in the States, these 18 years of ghorbay have truly been torture y3anni el 7amdillah I have a life full of benefits and everlasting opportunites because I was born and raised in the United States but at the same time I value simple things that you guys in Jordan take for granted such as Ramadan, hearing the beautiful Adhan, being surrounded by Arabic culture and history....

I don't meant to get off topic, but my ultimate dream is to move to Dubai and work there after becoming a doctor ( Allahu 3alam wain hahaha), but I am assuming that the Jordanian license is not recognized there so I am probably going to follow the American "pathway". Even if I decide to go to Jordan for Uni. y3anni basic courses it would probably be a waste of time because in America there is a huge division between medical school and Uni, in fact you do not have to major in of the sciences although it is preferrable. I just cannot see myself here for the next 12 years ( I was considering Cardiology for specialization or Pediatrics), yallah Allah be3ena, sometimez in order to reach to the top you have to sacrifice something from the bottom

I do appreciate your help and I wish you the best of luck in life and hope your path is filled with success! Live your life, enjoy it and breathe it all in one moment at a time ~ Hadealieo

 

[rox]

I do not want to spend the rest of my life in the States, these 18 years of ghorbay have truly been torture y3anni el 7amdillah I have a life full of benefits and everlasting opportunites because I was born and raised in the United States but at the same time I value simple things that you guys in Jordan take for granted such as Ramadan, hearing the beautiful Adhan, being surrounded by Arabic culture and history....

fair enough.

but my ultimate dream is to move to Dubai and work there after becoming a doctor ( Allahu 3alam wain hahaha),

Well, i think you can practice in Dubai if you were trained in Jordan, but the main difference that you'll be paid like 15 times less than an US-trained doctor.

Would it make difference in salary if you had residency from USA but med school from Jordan vs USA, honestly i dunno. Anyway, residency from USA is enough to get you a very decent salary. Please, don't give me that typical reply "money doesn't matter...do what you like..blah blah blah"

I just cannot see myself here for the next 12 years ( I was considering Cardiology for specialization or Pediatrics)

This is a typical way of thinking for people who haven't yet finished med school, I don't blame you..I used to think the same way. Here's how it goes, in medicine there are like 15 specialities, usually by the end of med school you get to like a couple of them and you get to hate most of them. You never know what you'll like till you finish your med school. So to get into Cardiology or pediatrics won't be a problem since both are non-competetive, but as I previously said, what if you like a competitive filed? Believe me, you will wish then that you had gone to a US med school.

 

[CrazEE Urduniya]

Wow, again I highly appreciate the very early reply, ya Rox....by the way, what are specializing in and what are your goals in the future?

Oh, not that it matters, but what is your gender? Hehehehe, you can obviously tell I am a girl since I have been typing in pink the moment I decided to post questions, but anyhow even though I haven't been to medical school yet I know my fascination with the human heart will never cease to amaze me.

In fact, I never really considered becoming a doctor UNTIL the 9th grade after a cow heart dissection in biology ( after that lab I ventured on my own, went on the Internet and memorized the chambers and ventricles, vessels and valves....direction of blood flow and what not, lolz but my friends would laugh at me because as they were posting ridiculously hilarious sketch comedy videos on Youtube I was making cool powerpoints of the heart and I went as far as incorporating pop culture and slang in the powerpoint so it could make sense to others.) Again, I do not mean to go off on tangents, but you're advice really does help! By the way, although money is a rewarding factor that plays a major role for most followers of the profession, I would be a hypocrite if I stated that money plays no role in my life.....but because I was never really financially unstable the value of the simple things in life greatly exceed in value than material . Y3anni my intention of becoming a doctor is to fufill a passion, while utilizing my skills and helping others not because I want fatten a wallet! By the way, according to my culture and my family's mindsets I am not financially responsible for my future husband and children, hehehe
Nice talking to you, Rox and I was wondering if you have enrolled in any residency programs in the States, take care and I wish you the best Hadealieo

 

[rox]

Hi again, actually I was pretty sleepy when I wrote both replies and now I have that heartburn..heheh..anyways, again, you never know what you will like in the future. I can't stress that point more than that. Yet, many people like Cardiology and fall into it.

You have to understand that Cardiology is not about the heart chambers and dissection. It is more about EKG, Echo, electrophysiology, medications, fluids, routine preoperative consults.

 

[IgR]

Hi CrazEE Urduniya... How are you?

I am a 5th year medical student at University of Jordan.... and I think it's useful for you to know that at least 1 of my colleagues graduated from US high schools just like you... and came to study here in Jordan... and yes, she is doing well with study, language and culture...

Good Luck... (By the way I liked the Urdunized thing....lol).

 

[Pal4ever]

hello ...

I know that this is only for jordanian doctors,,,


but palestine is very close to jordan ... so can I be here???



Im 3rd year dental student in UoS in UAE,,,


nice to meet u all

 

[rox]

Nice to meet you Pal. Good luck

 

[TexanGal]

Hey everybody!

I just caught up with the thread You guys write a lot! haha.

I'm originally from Palestine but grew up in & frequent Jordan every summer I know that doesn't make me 100% Jordanian or anything, but I figure ya'll are the closest I've got

I'm pre-med! I'll be taking the MCATs this January insha'Allah & then applying this summer.

Like Hadeal, I often wondered if I should study medicine in Jordan. One of my cousins is at JU and loves it! The route to become a practicing physician is much shorter than it is here in the states... BUT at the same time studying in the states has some benefits that you just can't find in Jordan.

ALSO like Hadeal, I've always found that people are not so enthusiastic about women practicing medicine. Alhamdulillah, my father is very supportive and has all of his friends calling me 'daktora' already, but random women I hardly know are always like "ma baddek titjawazee?"... I'm like REALLY?! I can't get married and be a doctor at the same time!??

Haha anyway. Ma dakhalnee. I know what I wan't and I'm doing it.

I wish you all the BEST of luck and kul 3am wa intu bikheir!

 

[rox]

Actually, many people like their daughters to go to med school. At my class, the ratio of male:female is something like 3:1. The point about jeezeh might be true but not that horrible For example I guess there are now like more than 10 of my classmates already engaged and they haven't graduated yet.

 

[boodles]

Hello!

I am a medical student who will be visiting Jordan University for a mini-rotation. I have yet to find housing for my trip. Does anyone have any advice on how to find housing near the University? It is a 3-week trip.

Thank you!

 

[rox]

Hello boodles,

I live in a different city but, anyway, check out their website and see if they offer any. Otherwise, I'm not sure you can secure a housing online. Your best shot will be probably to know someone who can look for you or to call up some housing agents. I don't think those agents have any websites.

I might be able to help you out if you couldn't secure any housing, but you'll have to give me details about the dates, shared vs single, male/female...etc.

Good luck and wish you a nice trip.

 

[IgR]

Hey Rox...

It's been a long time.....

You are so close to graduation I think.... Good luck man...

 

[rox]

dude, tomorrow morning is my last oral exam, I'm just hours from graduation!!!

 

[iphetamine]

Hey everybody!

I just caught up with the thread You guys write a lot! haha.

I'm originally from Palestine but grew up in & frequent Jordan every summer I know that doesn't make me 100% Jordanian or anything, but I figure ya'll are the closest I've got

I'm pre-med! I'll be taking the MCATs this January insha'Allah & then applying this summer.

Like Hadeal, I often wondered if I should study medicine in Jordan. One of my cousins is at JU and loves it! The route to become a practicing physician is much shorter than it is here in the states... BUT at the same time studying in the states has some benefits that you just can't find in Jordan.

ALSO like Hadeal, I've always found that people are not so enthusiastic about women practicing medicine. Alhamdulillah, my father is very supportive and has all of his friends calling me 'daktora' already, but random women I hardly know are always like "ma baddek titjawazee?"... I'm like REALLY?! I can't get married and be a doctor at the same time!??

Haha anyway. Ma dakhalnee. I know what I wan't and I'm doing it.

I wish you all the BEST of luck and kul 3am wa intu bikheir!

the best post EVER in a loooong time!! hehe, i know how we arabs think...lol

 

[FreakofMeds]

Congratz rox for graduating. Best of luck. I am a JU graduate, 2006. I'm applying to the match this year. Completed Step 1 and the CS waiting for Step 2 CK.

When are you matching Rox? It seems you started your steps early in sixth year and you are hoping to match right after the intern year.

Best of luck.

 

[rox]

Thanks freak! I'm applying this year inshallah. What specialty are you applying for? Good luck.

 

[FreakofMeds]

I'm applying for Internal Medicine. It is the specialty I wanted to go into since fourth year.

There are a few quirks for being a bit "late". Many of my classmates are already first and second year residents. Hopefully they will at least secure a couple of interviews.

What about you what specialty are you applying for?

 

[rox]

everybody is applying for IM! good luck.

 

[FreakofMeds]

Well it's what is available to us sadly. It's not like I ever considered surgery or OB GYN. I really want IM, but I have seen some of my classmates who kept talking on and on about how surgery is better than IM and that they want to do it no matter what, till they actually go into JU surgery residency for a couple of months, resign, finish their steps and try their luck with IM in the US. It's sad.

Abu Khalaf gives them hell.

 

[ANGEL2013]

salam
nice to know that there are ppl to relate to and ask for advise
am new so am glad to see this topic

 

[ysm]

Greetings to my fellow Jordanians! Must say, such a great forum youve got going here! Im a first year (sanfoor) med student at JUST...
I know its probably too early to be thinking bout residency and specialty when ive just entered uni...but afterall, curiousity was never a crime

If, suppose, i was aiming to do an orthopedic surgery residency in the US, what would be useful potential advice from now?

To start with, when would be the right time to do USMLE step 1, 2 and is 3 compulsory? Will doing voluntary work in local hospitals now be of any use for future? Will it affect my CV for future when i come to my application? If i were aiming for surgery, should i do more than one elective in the US to be as competitive as the locals'? When would be the right time to do them?

I know these are childish questions when it comes to you folks and youve probably been over them 2-3 million times but i would appreciate the advice...

 

[FreakofMeds]

Don't worry, there is no such thing as a childish question we have all been sanafer at one point. Well to start you need to know that getting Ortho in the US is extremely competitive for International medical grads. It is not impossible. I know one person in my class who secured an Ortho position in the US. He was the only one I heard of since then.

What he did was work with an Orthopedist at JU with a research from fourth year, got connected through that research to an attending orthopedist in the US, and that provided him with the contact to secure a position in the US.

As to when you should do the steps, it depends. If you wish to go to the US right after Emteyaz, then you should finish all your steps before the sixth year ends, or you could finish step 1 / CS before graduation, and do Step 2 in the months between june and august of your graduation.

Step 3 is not compulsory unless you wish to get an H1B visa, which is a form of visa that opens immigration door. Otherwise, if you go with a J1 visa (student exchange), then you don't need to do step 3. You can read about the advantages and disadvantages of each type in the First Aid and on the net.

Finally, it is WAY to early to think about this too much at this point for you. Things could change big time between now and the day you graduate. So it's possible that anything I said won't be valid in your case by that time.

Cheers.

 

[ysm]

Thanks for the great advice mate! How was your journey in med so far? Are you currently doing your residency in the US? What specialty? When did you do the steps?

What he did was work with an Orthopedist at JU with a research from fourth year, got connected through that research to an attending orthopedist in the US, and that provided him with the contact to secure a position in the US.

Wow! Are medical researches like this common in Jordan?

Thanks again, cheers!

 

[FreakofMeds]

Thanks for the great advice mate! How was your journey in med so far? Are you currently doing your residency in the US? What specialty? When did you do the steps?


Wow! Are medical researches like this common in Jordan?

Thanks again, cheers!

You're welcome. I am in the match for Internal Medicine for 2010. The journey of medicine was , as expected, tough. I did the steps after graduation.

Researches like that are not common for sure. You have to be pretty adamant looking for them.

 

[IgR]

I don't know why I suddenly remembered this thread, it's been a very long time... I wonder if anybody still checks this forum of people I have communicated with... I'm not sure someone will answer,,, but I have to ask... How are you guys????

 

[future surgeonn]

Hey all ,
nice to see Jordanians here ,,

im 3th year st in mutah medical school

 

[ysm]

Hey IgR and future surgeonn! Great to see that you guys still check out this forum. I'm currently doing my second year in JUST, and all in all everything's going well, even though my grades are progressively declining with time. However, from what I've heard this is quite normal, so no hard feelings, haha. Whatever happened to Rox and FreakofMeds I wonder. Anyhow, do keep in touch; I would love to see this thread kept alive.