Can you negotiate residency salary?

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King Arthur

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Let's say for instance you were a super competitive applicant interested in a field that has trouble filling with american students, could you potentially ask to start at pg3 salary level or something?

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Programs that have difficulty recruiting are already likely using the stipend to "sweeten the deal" across the board. I'm quite certain that paying individual residents more money than the rest would be considered an illegal enticement under the Match.

As an applicant, requesting special compensation would likely send up lots of red flags. I wouldn't recommend it.

A "flexible-salary match" has been suggested before, however: http://weber.ucsd.edu/~vcrawfor/FlexibleSalaryMatch.pdf
 
Programs that have difficulty recruiting are already likely using the stipend to "sweeten the deal" across the board. I'm quite certain that paying individual residents more money than the rest would be considered an illegal enticement under the Match.

As an applicant, requesting special compensation would likely send up lots of red flags. I wouldn't recommend it.

A "flexible-salary match" has been suggested before, however: http://weber.ucsd.edu/~vcrawfor/FlexibleSalaryMatch.pdf

[/set sarcasm=extreme]Illegal enticement? Of course it would be. It would be a radical and anti-communist concept. I think it's called capitalism and market factors! What next? Hospitals competing with each other for residents? A 40 hour work week and reasonable schedules?

Better working conditions? If we let a competitive negotiated salary stand, pretty soon we'll have a domino effect and all of medical education will fall and the capitalsts will have won! Then the hospital administrators and the insurance execs will have to give up those pretty offices and indentured resident servants. Where will it end? Time and a half overtime? Oh my! [/end sarcasm]
 
It would be nice, but since the residents are the lowest of the low on the totem pole, I don't see any changes. Not until someone rich and famous dies during a 30th hour.
I can't imagine the flexible salary match being any less complicated than the current system. Plus, the range is so minor in most places I've seen, with the lows all being above $41K, and the high being $45K (N=1 person with 14 interviews) that I wouldn't change one place over another for only $4,000. Some might though.
I do find it comical that resident salaries in NYC aren't that much different than they are in, say, Augusta, GA, but the COL is about twice as much.
 
I do find it comical that resident salaries in NYC aren't that much different than they are in, say, Augusta, GA, but the COL is about twice as much.


very true. I interviewed at a program in Manhattan where the PGY1 salary was below 47500, Its manhattan!!!!. That program is almost at the end of my potential rank list and almost falling out of my rank list.

you cannot live with 47,500 in manhattan. well, yes. but your SO has to have a pretty good job!!!
 
you cannot live with 47,500 in manhattan. well, yes. but your SO has to have a pretty good job!!!


Maybe you could if you were living on a steady diet of government cheese and (insert rapidly escalating volume smilie here) LIVING IN A VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER!!!!!!!!!!

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 
I do find it comical that resident salaries in NYC aren't that much different than they are in, say, Augusta, GA, but the COL is about twice as much.

Of course this is a legit point, but I doubt it'll change anytime soon because despite the fact that salaries are comparable, big city programs are still considered more desireable to candidates than are rural or middle america positions. Do you see columbia, harvard, northwestern, ucsf, or ucla programs struggling to fill? they could pay even less than a program in little rock and still have no problem filling. they can do this because students simply don't want to live in smaller towns in general and because most of more prestigious residencies are in large cities.

but you can be sure that the program in augusta is going to be sure to highlight how you can live a lot better on their $43K per year than the $47K per year in NYC, DC, LA, etc. unfortunately the nature of medical education dictates that it be done in decent-sized population centers, even for tertiary care centers that get a lot of referrals. you still need a base population large enough for your residents to get their "bread and butter" diseases mastered. that simply cannot be accomplished in a small kentucky town with 15K people where making $40K/year would make you a king.

as to the guy who went on the dennis miller style rant, i think their point that the match is anti-competitive is absolutely true. it clearly violates the sherman anti-trust act. however the alternative is the free for all that existed before the match was put into place. and that brings the discussion to the whole "should the match be eliminated" question that's been done before. however i have seen differences in perks offered (weeks vacation, insurance for spouses/kids, meals, laundryl, etc) that do serve as some form of competition. i just doubt most people weigh those factors much in making their decisions.
 
For those of you with student loans who have not consolidated (and most likely won't because rates are back up again) you don't want too earn too much money if you plan on qualifying for economic hardship. There is a federal cutoff of around $43000 per year. If you earn more than that, you will have to start repaying loans (expect around $1000 per month) or put them on forbearance (expect $7000-$10000 per year of interest) on average.

If your salary is $12000 more than the minimum, you will break even.
 
very true. I interviewed at a program in Manhattan where the PGY1 salary was below 47500, Its manhattan!!!!. That program is almost at the end of my potential rank list and almost falling out of my rank list.

you cannot live with 47,500 in manhattan. well, yes. but your SO has to have a pretty good job!!!

Just in general there are FP programs that offer things like a 10K signing bonus...
 
Realizing though, that all of those end up being taxable income, which makes you have to pay on your loans.
$10K though, that's not bad. If ever there was a competitive FM residency, I would say they take the cake (in WI).
 
very true. I interviewed at a program in Manhattan where the PGY1 salary was below 47500, Its manhattan!!!!. That program is almost at the end of my potential rank list and almost falling out of my rank list.

you cannot live with 47,500 in manhattan. well, yes. but your SO has to have a pretty good job!!!
I guess I just don't understand the necessity to live in an overpriced place like Manhattan, especially when there are some other really affordable and decent places to reside. That's probably what I meant the first time, but seeing as I may have offended some, I have chosen to try to re-word my previously offensive post.
 
OMG, you sound like the pretentious jackasses that ARE New York. I hope you get a residency in that place and have to live so below your means. Like no manicures, OMG!!!! And I hope your HO gets a job flippin' burgers for your fake "friends".

Wise up jackass. 800 a month in loans, 1400 for a 1 bedroom (popular cali rates anyway...SF and LA, I assume it's the same in NY) and you're left (after 30% or so tax...sales, federal and state income etc.) with 12,000 a year for food, parking, books, utilities and the rest. You want your kids to attend a good school? You want to retire some day? Good luck saving. OMG!! I hope you find out what REAL LIFE is like some day and stop throwing in your uneducated opinion to make fun of other people.
 
Trust me when I say that the inability to negotiate residency salary is in everyone's favor.

There are people out there who will be willing to get paid nothing to do residency in certain specialties. It has been brought up before.. people saying they will do the residency for free.
 
Wise up jackass. 800 a month in loans, 1400 for a 1 bedroom (popular cali rates anyway...SF and LA, I assume it's the same in NY) and you're left (after 30% or so tax...sales, federal and state income etc.) with 12,000 a year for food, parking, books, utilities and the rest. You want your kids to attend a good school? You want to retire some day? Good luck saving. OMG!! I hope you find out what REAL LIFE is like some day and stop throwing in your uneducated opinion to make fun of other people.

Good point. Although $1400/month for a 1 bedroom in Manhattan would be a STEAL.
 
Good point. Although $1400/month for a 1 bedroom in Manhattan would be a STEAL.

Cornell/MSKCC has subsidized housing and you can get a decent 1BR for that much. If you are on your own I figure it would run you around $2k for a studio in a livable area, at least that was my experience when I was looking for housing last summer.
 
Of course this is a legit point, but I doubt it'll change anytime soon because despite the fact that salaries are comparable, big city programs are still considered more desireable to candidates than are rural or middle america positions. Do you see columbia, harvard, northwestern, ucsf, or ucla programs struggling to fill? they could pay even less than a program in little rock and still have no problem filling. they can do this because students simply don't want to live in smaller towns in general and because most of more prestigious residencies are in large cities.

but you can be sure that the program in augusta is going to be sure to highlight how you can live a lot better on their $43K per year than the $47K per year in NYC, DC, LA, etc. unfortunately the nature of medical education dictates that it be done in decent-sized population centers, even for tertiary care centers that get a lot of referrals. you still need a base population large enough for your residents to get their "bread and butter" diseases mastered. that simply cannot be accomplished in a small kentucky town with 15K people where making $40K/year would make you a king.

as to the guy who went on the dennis miller style rant, i think their point that the match is anti-competitive is absolutely true. it clearly violates the sherman anti-trust act. however the alternative is the free for all that existed before the match was put into place. and that brings the discussion to the whole "should the match be eliminated" question that's been done before. however i have seen differences in perks offered (weeks vacation, insurance for spouses/kids, meals, laundryl, etc) that do serve as some form of competition. i just doubt most people weigh those factors much in making their decisions.

This is true. But there are are a lot of decent-sized population centers where the cost of living is low compared to NYC or LA. You can get plenty-good training in Indianapolis, Iowa City, or any number of medium to large "fly-over" cities and live decently on your resident's salary.

You can even get good training in low population density areas. Dartmouth, for example, is in a pretty rural area (hell, people go to White River Junction for the bright lights of the big city) but it has a world class medical center. The cost of living is pretty high in Hanover, Wilder, and Norwich, however, but not as high as living in Manhattan. You can probably drive twenty minutes up the Valley and find a squalid but decent trailer park if you absolutely had to (that is unless all of the compassionate elites haven't passed laws prohibiting the poor from living in a fifty-mile radius).
 
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