Can you score lower if you are Hispanic or African american on MCAT?

[carlosc1dbz]

I heard from some people, that if you are an African American or Hispanics, you are allowed to score lower, when applying to medical school. Like a 27 or 26 and you will be good. I dont know if this is true, or if it is a way to try and sabotage me. lol. I also heard, that if you are white, you better score over a 31. If it is true, what schools does this apply to in Texas. Is there still affirmative action going on in Texas?

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[GT2]

no. don't try your best. give yourself an excuse for scoring lower

you have it reversed African Americans and Hispanics need to score a 38+ to be considered and Caucasians need a 24.

 

[carlosc1dbz]

I just want to know if what I was told is Bull S***. I will not settle for anything less than a 30. Its like the SAT, gives you bragging rights. Alittle.

 

[cabrillo]

Yo quiero Taco Bell!!!!!!!!

 

[tp709]

Try your best, even if you might have an edge. Because most people "aim" for 33+, yet the majority of those people end up scoring lower. You don't want to aim for a 27 then wind up with a 24. Just don't be satisfied until you know you are at the highest possible level you can be at.

 

[deleted106503]

I doubt you'll ever get a response from a med school regarding that topic. Some schools have minimum MCAT score cutoffs and regardless of race or gender, they won't make an exception. Plus, the MCAT is just one portion of your application. If you have very good extra curricular activities, letters of rec, grades, etc, it can help your cause with a less than stellar MCAT score. The same could be said for the opposite. A great MCAT score could help a less than stellar GPA. I'd like to assume everyone is treated the same for the MCAT regardless of race. However, I'm sure they'll feel a little more sympathetic for your score (if you felt you did less than potential) because you're a full time student, with a job, with children, etc.

 

[spicedmanna]

I heard from some people, that if you are an African American or Hispanics, you are allowed to score lower, when applying to medical school. Like a 27 or 26 and you will be good. I dont know if this is true, or if it is a way to try and sabotage me. lol. I also heard, that if you are white, you better score over a 31. If it is true, what schools does this apply to in Texas. Is there still affirmative action going on in Texas?

Not another URM/AA thread... *groan*

 

[dr_90210]

I heard from some people, that if you are an African American or Hispanics, you are allowed to score lower, when applying to medical school. Like a 27 or 26 and you will be good. I dont know if this is true, or if it is a way to try and sabotage me. lol. I also heard, that if you are white, you better score over a 31. If it is true, what schools does this apply to in Texas. Is there still affirmative action going on in Texas?

this is completely untrue.. only a 21 is needed

before u flame me, please refer to:
http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=6403

 

[spicedmanna]

Well, here's the actual data from AAMC, if you are interested. Pay attention to the data on matriculants:

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2006/mcatgparaceeth.htm

Besides these data, the rest is arguable.

 

[akinf]

this is completely untrue.. only a 21 is needed

before u flame me, please refer to:
http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=6403

If you read lower, you will see that they actually got a 25O when they retook. Not that its that much better, but a 21 still won't cut it.

 

[Funky]

great.. i thought the mcat thread was free of URM/AA threads but they haunt like none other

 

[GT2]

I just want to know if what I was told is Bull S***. I will not settle for anything less than a 30. Its like the SAT, gives you bragging rights. Alittle.

gives you bragging rights hahaha

When you are in medschool no one cares.

Hi. I got a 44 on my MCAT what did you get?
only a 36? haha

good that you won't settle for less than a 30.

 

[Beau Geste]

O.M.G.

I'm debating getting out the popcorn for this one.....

 

[docolive]

O.M.G.

I'm debating getting out the popcorn for this one.....

If you're considering how low your score can be to get into an MD program, then you are in the wrong field.

 

[J ROD]

I heard from some people, that if you are an African American or Hispanics, you are allowed to score lower, when applying to medical school. Like a 27 or 26 and you will be good. I dont know if this is true, or if it is a way to try and sabotage me. lol. I also heard, that if you are white, you better score over a 31. If it is true, what schools does this apply to in Texas. Is there still affirmative action going on in Texas?

The answer is yes. Because there are so few minority applicants as compared to white applicants, generally they can score lower on whatever particular standardized test and get in. Schools set aside a certain minimum percentage that they feel they need to accept in order to represent the local population or keep ideas of prejudice down. I have been told by a program director and have seen minority students get into law school, pharmacy, and med school with lower grades than some of the white students. Therefore, I tell people you are really competing within your own ethnicity. However, Indian (from India) and Asian usually have to compete with the whites.

The real question is whether or not this practice is wrong? Should the best and brighest be accepted regardless of color? Personally, I think we need a mixture of all ethnicities. But, I do believe that you should not accept whatever ethnicity if they are no where near qualified just to meet the "magic quota" this admission's cycle.

At historically black colleges, I am sure they try to accept a certain number of white students although I have no knowledge of this subject matter to speak with any authority.

Lastly, I would just tell everyone to do the best they can and focus on your situation and do not worry about others. Diversity is an asset because you will be working on a diverse population of all ethnicities and cultures and will need to be openminded. As applicants, you can only play the game and hope for the best. Good luck to all the applicants out there!

 

[cabrillo]

boring as hell. Please moderator close this thread. we are trying to study here. This is all BS and not necesarily a degree based topic

 

[BigRedPremed]

Without debating the merits of AA, yes, allowances are made for URM's. The data shows that the avg. MCAT of URM matriculants is dramatically lower than the avg. MCAT of non-URM matriculants. In other words, AA exists.

 

[QofQuimica]

boring as hell. Please moderator close this thread. we are trying to study here. This is all BS and not necesarily a degree based topic

I'm going to leave it open as long as it remains civil, but FWIW, I agree with you that it's a bogus topic.

 

[NontradICUdoc]

Stop trying to find a way to not study so hard. Just study for the damn test and stop looking for a loophole.

 

[southpawcannon]

So, I infer from the table of data on ethnic matriculants that if you are puertorican, and score a 25, you are golden.

 

[youngnflyy]

I agree that the subject is tired. Just work as hard as you can and see what happens. If you go into anything thinking that you can give less effort and still get in, then you're setting yourself up to fail! Also, it's not just the MCAT that gets you into school, but your volunteer work, shadowing, gpa..etc... as well.

 

[JoeNamath4Eva]

I agree with everything J DUB said

 

[Anastasis]

Stop trying to find a way to not study so hard. Just study for the damn test and stop looking for a loophole.

Exactly.

 

[Eric Lindros]

I heard from some people, that if you are an African American or Hispanics, you are allowed to score lower, when applying to medical school. Like a 27 or 26 and you will be good. I dont know if this is true, or if it is a way to try and sabotage me. lol. I also heard, that if you are white, you better score over a 31. If it is true, what schools does this apply to in Texas. Is there still affirmative action going on in Texas?

In general, being part of an u.r. minority will help a crappy mcat score, so congratulations if you are.

 

[JoeNamath4Eva]

congratulations if you are.

LOL
so true... so true

 

[carlosc1dbz]

Hey J Dub. I really appreciate your answerer. I dont know why everyone is all mad about the question. It was a simple true of false question. Not a "shut this thread down because its not entertaining". Im sorry that for some of you, reading forums is a necessary form of entertainment.

 

[JoeNamath4Eva]

AA & URM issues are VERY touchy around these parts. and by these parts I mean the U.S. of A.

BTW... my advisor told me Michigan did away w/ affirmative action. Even the minorities were in favor (I guess b/c of the bad rep they were getting as being less qualified- which I know isn't necessarily true in all cases). Anyone think this trend will spread or is this just a try-it-out thing?

 

[enviromed21]

AA & URM issues are VERY touchy around these parts. and by these parts I mean the U.S. of A.

BTW... my advisor told me Michigan did away w/ affirmative action. Even the minorities were in favor (I guess b/c of the bad rep they were getting as being less qualified- which I know isn't necessarily true in all cases). Anyone think this trend will spread or is this just a try-it-out thing?

This is a very interesting thread. A couple weeks ago my research advisor and I were just chatting about med school and she told me as long as I scored in the 20's I was "good to go". I don't know how others would react but I was quite insulted.

 

[J ROD]

Hey J Dub. I really appriciate your answewer. I dont know why everyone is all mad about the question. It was a simple true of false question. Not a shut this thread down because its not intertaining.

You are welcome!

I believe many majority (aka, white) applicants feel mad about this subject because if they have higher stats than a minority applicant, they feel they should be accepted over the less statistically qualified, minority applicant.

Now, being a majority applicant, I can understand their feelings because like all MD applicants I would like to be accepted and having people getting accepted over me with lower scores definitely would make me angry. This approach is natural but also selfish on part of the majority applicant.

If you step back and think of the admissions process, the school is looking at the process in its whole, not just how it affects you. Therefore, they would like to have a diverse, society reflecting MD matriculating class. Many ethnicities prefer to go to MDs that are of their own ethnicities so MD schools need to be aware of this fact. It is for the best of society and the profession in some aspects. Unfortunately, it is a competitive process and there are some that will not make it.

Like I said before, right or wrong that is the way things are. Just do your best and try to have some perspective on life. It is not the end of the world if you do not get in. There are many other health professions where you can help people and still make plenty of money. Just my two cents!

 

[colliea21]

AA & URM issues are VERY touchy around these parts. and by these parts I mean the U.S. of A.

BTW... my advisor told me Michigan did away w/ affirmative action. Even the minorities were in favor (I guess b/c of the bad rep they were getting as being less qualified- which I know isn't necessarily true in all cases). Anyone think this trend will spread or is this just a try-it-out thing?

what does AA means? and URM?

 

[JoeNamath4Eva]

what does AA means? and URM?

Affirmative action (meeting quotas by lowering requirements i guess) and Under-Represented Minorities (ethnicities who make up a smaller portion of a particular field based on their representation in the general population)

 

[JoeNamath4Eva]

and in some circles, AA could mean alcoholics annonymous... i'm a bigger fan of what they're doing j/k j/k nobody freak

 

[carlosc1dbz]

and in some circles, AA could mean alcoholics annonymous... i'm a bigger fan of what they're doing j/k j/k nobody freak

ROLMFAO Alcoholics, anonymous!! That a good one. I guess in a way its not fair to non URM. I am still curious if this AA stuff is practiced in Texas. As for the advisor saying your "good to go" enviromed21, I am sure he/she is not trying to insult you. She is trying to tell you what your chances of getting in are. I am not sure if AA is something that should insult URM because you have to take into account the fact, which are the actual circumstances of most minorities and the fact that there needs to be URM doctors, for according to most statistics, people like physicians of their own ethnicity. I am not saying they should get some easy ride.... you know what. You guys are too sensitive!! I'ma stop writing. LOL.

 

[Anastasis]

ROLMFAO Alcoholics, anonymous!! That a good one. I guess in a way its not fair to non URM. I am still curious if this AA stuff is practiced in Texas. TEXAS!!!!!!

Yes, I believe so.

 

[fobw]

AA (Alcoholics Anonymous) member here: public service announcement. There are meetings everywhere. I've personally attended AA meetings in about 30 states (including Texas), plus Mexico, Costa Rica, Russia and Italy. There are beach meetings in Hawaii. Some bigger cities have more than 1000 meetings a week. Please now return to bashing carlosc1dbz.

 

[carlosc1dbz]

Having people do you dirty work eh?????? LOL

 

[JoeNamath4Eva]

w/ your sn, carlos, i assumed you were a urm. but from ur posts i can't tell. no worries... either way you shouldn't think about it until after the test is over. the world doesn't always make sense so try not to get upset over things you can't change *insert serenity prayer here*

 

[Telo78]

Well, here's the actual data from AAMC, if you are interested. Pay attention to the data on matriculants:

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2006/mcatgparaceeth.htm

Besides these data, the rest is arguable.

This is a good thread b/c it shows the fact that non-minority applicants that get turned down every year and end up trying to figure what they will do have higher gpas and mcats then minority med students. Get mad if you will but this crazy considering that once they (med schools) admit nonqualified people they confirm this fact by giving them remedial programs before class starts. How about the USMLEs? I can only assume from lack luster SATs, GPAs, and MCATs that these are below standard as well. If you can argue that diversity is key no matter what than you are simply illogical.

 

[Lshapley]

Just did a quick search on Pub Central and got this hit right of the bat:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1448039

In the abstract it points out something very important, and unfortunate, regarding the physician-patient relationship that I have heard cited numerous times. Many patients feel like they receive better care from physicians of their own ethnicity. This study has numerous citations supporting that finding. Furthermore, it has been shown that these impressions are generally born out by the facts (i.e., whites receive better healthcare on average than blacks and hispanics).

While the quality of care certainly has a correlation to the percentage of the minority population that lives at or below the poverty level, the patient's impression of care should be independent of that. If a patient doesn't think they are receiving good care, they won't go back to that doctor. They will wait 3 weeks for an appointment with a new doctor who does not know them. Probably they will not feel comfortable with the doctor and be fully honest (as House says, we all lie). That brings us right back to the MCAT.

The MCAT is all about giving the med schools and adcoms another metric to decide who will be the people in society responsible for taking care of the sick. Now, if the med schools only accepted 30+ MCAT and this resulted in few black and hispanic doctors what would happen? The underrepresented minorities would have an even lower standard of real and perceived care. The patients won't be comfortable with their doctors and the patients and society as a whole will suffer.

Bottomline, the med schools have decided that being the smartest guy/girl is an important quality to have in a doctor, but it is not the only one. Someone being educated to become a doctor is about what is best for society, not for that lucky someone. Adcoms have the tricky task of balancing all of these factors to decide who should have the privilege of becoming a doctor.

If you think about it this way than it is clear why the average MCAT scores vary for blacks/hispanics/native americans (underrepresented minority) vs. whites/asians (overrepresented).

 

[HippocratesX]

well said LShap....

 

[Telo78]

Just did a quick search on Pub Central and got this hit right of the bat:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1448039

In the abstract it points out something very important, and unfortunate, regarding the physician-patient relationship that I have heard cited numerous times. Many patients feel like they receive better care from physicians of their own ethnicity. This study has numerous citations supporting that finding. Furthermore, it has been shown that these impressions are generally born out by the facts (i.e., whites receive better healthcare on average than blacks and hispanics).

While the quality of care certainly has a correlation to the percentage of the minority population that lives at or below the poverty level, the patient's impression of care should be independent of that. If a patient doesn't think they are receiving good care, they won't go back to that doctor. They will wait 3 weeks for an appointment with a new doctor who does not know them. Probably they will not feel comfortable with the doctor and be fully honest (as House says, we all lie). That brings us right back to the MCAT.

The MCAT is all about giving the med schools and adcoms another metric to decide who will be the people in society responsible for taking care of the sick. Now, if the med schools only accepted 30+ MCAT and this resulted in few black and hispanic doctors what would happen? The underrepresented minorities would have an even lower standard of real and perceived care. The patients won't be comfortable with their doctors and the patients and society as a whole will suffer.

Bottomline, the med schools have decided that being the smartest guy/girl is an important quality to have in a doctor, but it is not the only one. Someone being educated to become a doctor is about what is best for society, not for that lucky someone. Adcoms have the tricky task of balancing all of these factors to decide who should have the privilege of becoming a doctor.

If you think about it this way than it is clear why the average MCAT scores vary for blacks/hispanics/native americans (underrepresented minority) vs. whites/asians (overrepresented).

People and their perceptions. I love that. Right back at sqaure one. I'd rather work from facts and arrive at a intelligent conclusion rather than start with a bias perception and muddy the waters from there on.

 

[Lshapley]

People and their perceptions. I love that. Right back at sqaure one. I'd rather work from facts and arrive at a intelligent conclusion rather than start with a bias perception and muddy the waters from there on.

So....you interested in lab research?

 

[HippocratesX]

lol

 

[Telo78]

So....you interested in lab research?

No it's ok though, I know this subject stings alot. It's one of those things we would rather not discuss intelligently without smoke screening. However, I do think the MCAT is relevant concerning scientific and non scientific problem solving, and I expect my doctor to be at the considered competive range. Is this too much to ask for, or should a person's skin color make them competive when GPAs and MCATs obviously don't? Who keeps these same students from raising failing and attrition rates in med school? Oh wait I know, lowering the standards in medical school. I would really like to know the standards of the USMLE.

 

[QofQuimica]

No it's ok though, I know this subject stings alot. It's one of those things we would rather not discuss intelligently without smoke screening. However, I do think the MCAT is relevant concerning scientific and non scientific problem solving, and I expect my doctor to be at the considered competive range. Is this too much to ask for, or should a person's skin color make them competive when GPAs and MCATs obviously don't? Who keeps these same students from raising failing and attrition rates in med school? Oh wait I know, lowering the standards in medical school. I would really like to know the standards of the USMLE.

I know it's hard to understand the overall picture when you're a premed, but you guys need to have some faith that there *is* a method to the adcoms' madness. It may not always be apparent to you, but no school is going to accept an applicant that they don't believe can pass the boards and successfully complete the program. I don't care what color skin your hypothetical applicant has; schools have a vested interest in making sure every single person they accept makes it through to become a practicing physician. This makes sense considering how expensive it is to train a single physician and how limited the med school slots are. Now, within that pool of acceptable candidates, there is going to be a range of qualifications. But the kind of differences you are talking about here are *not* the differences between "excellent" and "substandard" students, but rather between students who are "excellent" versus students who are "merely" "good". So let's make a fair comparison: assume you have two candidates who are both competent and at least minimally qualified for med school. One has higher stats, but the other has adequate stats and brings some other important, intangible assets to the table. In such a case, the school may choose the second candidate over the first even though BOTH students are probably qualified for med school.

In general, the best advice I can give to you guys is the following: worry about yourself, and don't worry about other people. Make yourself the strongest applicant you possibly can. The way you get yourself noticed is not by lowering other people. It's by raising yourself. Does that make sense?

Best of luck to everyone getting ready to apply.

 

[almostin]

You are welcome!

I believe many majority (aka, white) applicants feel mad about this subject because if they have higher stats than a minority applicant, they feel they should be accepted over the less statistically qualified, minority applicant.

Now, being a majority applicant, I can understand their feelings because like all MD applicants I would like to be accepted and having people getting accepted over me with lower scores definitely would make me angry . This approach is natural but also selfish on part of the majority applicant.

You are kidding right? What about a white applicant with a 30 that gets in over another white applicant with a 36? Or are you telling me that all the white applicant in your med school scored the same?
Why don't you leave the few of these people (that are fortunate to make it) alone rather than blame them for your rejection.

 

[FLMD2B]

Hey J Dub. I really appreciate your answerer. I dont know why everyone is all mad about the question. It was a simple true of false question. Not a "shut this thread down because its not entertaining". Im sorry that for some of you, reading forums is a necessary form of entertainment.

Because people automatically assume minority (particularly African-American) = underqualified. I just hope people rally for the abolishment of legacy admissions as well (which admits as many if not more students than AA does). And you should do your best - nothing better than proving the naysayers wrong.

 

[J ROD]

You are kidding right? What about a white applicant with a 30 that gets in over another white applicant with a 36? Or are you telling me that all the white applicant in your med school scored the same?
Why don't you leave the few of these people (that are fortunate to make it) alone rather than blame them for your rejection.

First off, the purpose of this thread was discussing lower scores for minority v. majority applicants. That's why I did not discuss any majority v. majority acceptances and scores.

To address the rest of your post, I am not blaming nor am I mad at anyone or group. Carlosc1dbz asked why everyone was all mad about his simple question and I offered an explanation. I was speaking hypothetical as if I was an angry majority applicant. Not really an angry applicant! Try reading and comprehending other previous posts before you attempt to engage in a conversation.