Canadian student considering US schools before deciding on Caribbean and need HELP

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Michael W48

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Hi,

I am seriously considering applying to an American medical school but heard it is very difficult for Canadian students to get accepted. Does anyone know which American medical schools are the easiest to get into for Canadians? Does anyone know what a Canadian would need as a GPA and on his mcats to have a very good shot at an American school? If there are any Canadians who are currently attending or have attented an American medical school out there - I would really appreciate some input. What schools did you apply to? Why did you pick these schools? Are they know for accepting Canadians? I have a 85% at Queen's University after two years and will be taking the MCAT after third year. Does anyone know what my chances would be. I would rather save time and energy going down to the Caribbean right away if my chances at an American school are limited (Please note: don't want to apply to Canadian medical schools for various reasons). My final goal is to practice as an ER physician in the states.

I was also wondering WHAT ARE DO's. I have heard lots of posts from Americans talk about DO's but I have know idea what they are. And one more thing - I have done a lot of research on foriegn medical schools and narrowed it down to Australia or the Caribbean (St.George's for sure) but I have no idea which to choose - any suggestions?

Thanks
 

Adapt

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Originally posted by Michael W48
I was also wondering WHAT ARE DO's. I have heard lots of posts from Americans talk about DO's but I have know idea what they are.
If you go to the pre-DO section there are several stickies with links on what they are. Basically, in the US, they have full physician practice rights and are the legal and profession equivalent of MDs. They also learn manipulation a bit like a chiropractor, but get paid the same as MDs.

The stats to get into one are a bit lower with a 3.3 gpa avg and around a 27 MCAT depending on the school.

If you want to practice in Canada, some provinces accept them and other limit their scope of practice. Again, the stickies in the pre-DO forum also now include where DOs get full physician practice rights.

If you want to get a residency and practice in the US, going to a DO school would help you more than going to the caribbean. DOs can get competitve residencies and specialize in all specialties. Also, there are several who do get ER spots as some DOs have including a few who post on SDN.

Since you are from Canada and may want to practice there again, you should attempt to get into a US MD school but should also try to apply to US DO schools if you wouldn't mind just practicing in the US.
 

TTSD

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Are you currently a first year university student? I got a bit confused about your Queen's University statement. If you want to get into a GOOD Caribbean school, you'll still need a decent GPA and MCAT score.

I've also heard the same thing, that Canadians need to be kick arse and take names to get into a US Medical School, but I'm afraid I don't have any statistics. A DO is just about the same as a MD in the United States.. same residencies and ability to practice, different philosophies and outlook I think though. However, I am not sure as to the LEGAL status of DO's outside of the US such as in Canada. So you may want to check in on that if you want to return to your native land and practice.

DO schools do have a lower standard for admission than an allopathic school, though this shouldn't be taken for the quality of teaching. But if you want the MD, I hear a lot of Canadians head down to St. George's University in Grenada.. 3.3 GPA and 27 MCAT is about average over there.
 
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CalBeE

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Hi,

I know that the Canadian Medical Schools are very competitive and there are very few of them, but I'd suggest you to try applying to them first before you try the American schools, especially if you intend to practice in Canada in the future.

I really heard a story that kinda upset me too (I'm an international student myself). A daughter of my family friend applied to Loma Linda (A California school) as a Canadian. She did very well in the school and applied for Ophthlamology residency. I heard that she applied to 50 schools or so but didn't match into anywhere. Now many factors may be involved, but she was told that competitive specialties are generally not open to non-U.S. citizens like her.

What I'm saying is that, as an international student, you have to jump through all these huddles to get to where you want. However, it's not impossible, especially when your interest is in less competitive specialties.
 

Adapt

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Originally posted by CalBeE
A daughter of my family friend applied to Loma Linda (A California school) as a Canadian. She did very well in the school and applied for Ophthlamology residency. I heard that she applied to 50 schools or so but didn't match into anywhere. Now many factors may be involved, but she was told that competitive specialties are generally not open to non-U.S. citizens like her.
Wow I didn't know it was that bad for international students. I think if she had the stats but they still didn't choose her, then that's discrimination.

She's not an FMG because she went to medical school here so that's kind of a weird case.
 

TTSD

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..well, okay.. Opthamology is one of the most difficult residencies to get into at any rate. So is dermatology and orthopedics I believe. However, it should be noted that one of those prestiguous Derm awards to like most promising physician or some such actually went to a Carib doctor. So it IS possible, and it IS possible to actually climb to the top of your field.

But if you want anything else, such as IM, FP, EM, Surg, Neuro, Psych.. as an international student as long as you do well you should get in somewhere in one of those fields. Kick butt and take names and you'll do wonderful. Head over to valuemd.com and one of the moderators is Chief Resident of Radiation Oncology at JHU and will be moving over to Harvard.. and that's a hard thing to do even as a US graduate.

Canadians, with your crazy school systems.. you guys should do well no matter where you go as long you're motivated :-D
 

CalBeE

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Originally posted by Slickness
Wow I didn't know it was that bad for international students. I think if she had the stats but they still didn't choose her, then that's discrimination.

She's not an FMG because she went to medical school here so that's kind of a weird case.

Well they already made it hard for international students before they hit med schools. THe following schools don't review regular MD application from international students:

Duke
UCSF
U Mich Ann Arbor
U Washington
UCSD
U of Pittsburgh
NYU

among many others that I don't know of....I don't see it as discrimination, it's just that each country has to protect itself by focusing the resource on its citizens.
 

Michael W48

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Hi guys,

Thank you for all your replies, they were very helpful. I want to clarify that I do not want to or intend on returning to practice medicine in Canada. One of you was wondering about my university education- I am currently in my second year at Queen's in Ontario (a good Canadian school). Does anyone know where I could get info on which DO and American medical schools I should be applying to for best chances

Thanx again for all the help
 

Spidey

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Check out:

http://www.premed101.com/

It has the best info for Canadians applying to US schools. It is actually much easier for a Canadian to get into a US school, especially a DO school, than it is to get into a Canadian school.

85% average, I believe that translates to an A- average or 3.7 GPA which is very solid, if you have a good MCat (28+) and good ECs you should be competitive at most US MD schools, and very competitive at the DO schools. Good luck.
 

gschl1234

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This is a little off-topic but reading this thread, I started wondering if it is possible for a Canadian to apply and get US citizenship while going through medical school. Is it possible to simultaneously hold US and Canadian citizenship?
 

Spidey

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Originally posted by gschl1234
Is it possible to simultaneously hold US and Canadian citizenship?

Yes this is possible, but i've never looked into how to do it. Probably not easy.
 

moo

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you can hold dual citizenship but it's hard to get US citizenship. You need to first get an H1b visa, something you can't get as a student. You can get the H1b during residency but you need a lawyer, and you also need the institution to sponsor you. After that, you can work for a few years and convert that H1b into a green card, and after a few more years you can take the citizenship test.... kind of a long road but it can be done. (Peter Jennings just got his US citizenship, after 30+ years in the US!)
 

CalBeE

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Originally posted by Spidey
Yes this is possible, but i've never looked into how to do it. Probably not easy.

I'd probably also try the "faster" ways like the Annual Green Card Lottery, and of course, marrying a U.S. citizen.
 
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Michael W48

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Hi guys,

Thank you for your replies...very helpful. So what do you guys think I should do? Considering that I don't want to ever practice medicine in Canada, should I spend two more years in University (almost done first two years of my degree) - write the MCATS - apply to American schools and see if I get in. Or should I go down to the St.George's in the Caribbean next year (they have a premedical program that does not need mcats - I would go into the premedical year right before entrance into the medical school - with the premedical year it would take me 5 years to get my degree) and complete my MD there. By going to the Caribbean next year I would not have to write the mcats and do two more years of undergraduate work in Canada and I would save myself the expense and trouble involved with applying to American schools which I may not get into. What do you think - I can't decide?!!!!

Keep in mind that I do not want to come back to Canada and I want to eventually practice as an ER physician in the states. I know its tougher for FMG's to get ER residencies but have been told that it is very possible.

Thank you
 

TTSD

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What is your current major right now? Am I to presume that you haven't finished you pre-req classes right now?

First of all:
a) What's your hurry?!

b) Don't go into anything with a deadset anticipation of doing it, I hear people will change their ideas about 3-4 times during clinicals about what they really want.
c) You may want to get your premedical education at your university instead of down there.

Second of all:
Yes, getting an emergency residency coming from SGU, Ross or AUC is perfectly attainable, just work hard for it as you probably would at any other medical school. Though just make sure you remember, you have no breathing room.
 

moo

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Wait, finish college, and then apply to the US. It's difficult to get into ANY US residency coming from the caribbean, ESPECIALLY being Canadian. Emerg is moderately competitive so I think it would be best to go to a US school and give it a shot from there.
 

Adapt

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Originally posted by moo
Wait, finish college, and then apply to the US. It's difficult to get into ANY US residency coming from the caribbean, ESPECIALLY being Canadian. Emerg is moderately competitive so I think it would be best to go to a US school and give it a shot from there.
I agree.

I understand that you want to get it all done with. Also, that you don't want to take the MCAT or pay the costs of applying. However, all this is nothing compared to the ultimate goal. They are small sacrifices in achieving what you want.

You will be in a much better position in getting an EM residency from a US school then a caribbean school. The question you have to ask yourself is, does the improved benefits of an easier chance of getting into an EM residency make up for the mental cost of taking the MCAT and the financial cost of applying to med school?

I think it does.
 

Lara

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Absolutely finish your Queens degree and then apply to the US.

I was born and raised in Canada, but have dual citizenship through my American parents...so unfortunately my situation isn't fully comparable. But if you do well on the MCAT and apply wisely you should have a shot.

Keep in mind that you may end up wanting a more competitive residency than EM, like radiology for instance (which is tough for IMGs to obtain). It's definitely worth giving at least one shot at the US - I know the cost is painful, but I'd rather regret losing the time and money than regret not applying at all.

btw, keep in mind that some Canadian schools like McGill do have a decent US residency placement...and you'll save yourself a *lot* of debt compared to the private US schools which are most likely to accept you. So don't completely discount this option either. :) I'd apply to both countries simultaneously and make a decision afterward. Good luck!
 

docmemi

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Originally posted by Slickness
If you go to the pre-DO section there are several stickies with links on what they are. Basically, in the US, they have full physician practice rights and are the legal and profession equivalent of MDs. They also learn manipulation a bit like a chiropractor, but get paid the same as MDs.

The stats to get into one are a bit lower with a 3.3 gpa avg and around a 27 MCAT depending on the school.



:wow: :wow: i never knew the DO school stat avgs were that much lower than allo. its interesting considering DOs are essentially the same as MDs in the US. it goes to show that numbers dont mean everything!!
 

Adapt

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Originally posted by docmemi
:wow: :wow: i never knew the DO school stat avgs were that much lower than allo. its interesting considering DOs are essentially the same as MDs in the US. it goes to show that numbers dont mean everything!!
Yea. It's because most of the qualified applicants don't even apply to DO schools and go to MD schools instead.

Since the stats are a bit lower, it is also the reason why some MDs think they are better than DOs.
 

docmemi

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slick, that makes sense...i guess the good ones just go to allo. thats unfortunate. imo, DOs are as competent as MDs...shows you that numbers dont dicatae whose going to be a good dr.
 

CalBeE

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Originally posted by docmemi
slick, that makes sense...i guess the good ones just go to allo. thats unfortunate. imo, DOs are as competent as MDs...shows you that numbers dont dicatae whose going to be a good dr.

And also M.D. is often more publicly-recognized than D.O., partly because of the numberof allopathic schools relative to osteopathic schools. I personally decided to get a M.D., because there may be chance that I'll go back to practice in Australia or Asia, and I want something with more "security".
 

Michael W48

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Hey guys,

Your suggestions are very helpful, I really appreciate them. I don't know if this will change your opinions but if I stay in Canada and complete my degree I would be finishing it in Alberta at a small university called Concordia. The school is not very well known at all but it would offer me small classes and get me away from the cut throat competition at Queen's. Do you think this would hurt my chances significantly at getting into a US med school? Should I check to see if the schools I am applying to will recognize this University or should I just assume that they will? Please let me know if your thougts have changed and what you think about me doing my last two years at a small Albertan University.

Thanks
 

skypilot

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Originally posted by docmemi
i never knew the DO school stat avgs were that much lower than allo. its interesting considering DOs are essentially the same as MDs in the US. it goes to show that numbers dont mean everything!!

DO stats are comparable to less competitive Allo.

I read one source that gave the average Osteopathic GPA as a 3.5 and the average Allopathic GPA as a 3.4.

That is correct, the Osteopathic average GPA is actually higher!

The Osteopathic average MCAT score is quite a bit lower than the average Allopathic score.
 

supereagles

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Originally posted by CalBeE
Well they already made it hard for international students before they hit med schools. THe following schools don't review regular MD application from international students:

Duke
UCSF
U Mich Ann Arbor
U Washington
UCSD
U of Pittsburgh
NYU

among many others that I don't know of....I don't see it as discrimination, it's just that each country has to protect itself by focusing the resource on its citizens.

Duke actually does review international applications. However, their secondary does contain an extra section for intl students where they make you sign that you can provide your finances upon getting accepted. The good news is that duke does not require that intl students provide such evidence of financial support as a prerequisite for getting accepted.
 
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