Canadian Studying in Australia Debt

[shirochan88]

Greetings,

I just have a few inquires about Australian schools

From my research seems like tuition per year will be around 35000-50000 au depending on the school

I will be applying in a few years, and I"m not sure if I will be able to afford the tution. I come from a lower middle class family where my tution is close to what both my parents make per year.

With that said I obviously will need loans. I just want to know if there are others in this situation or if Studying abroad is really only for those in higher financial tiers.

As well maybe I"m wrong but most people say there is a pretty good chance if u get a GPA higher then a 3.4 is that correct? and a decent MCAT of 25

anyhow any advise would be great. I'm have always dreamed about studying MED and just recently found out oppertunities to study abroad.

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[johnnyb255]

Any reason why you'd choose to come to Australia over studying in Canada?

 

[shirochan88]

Based on my academic records in my first two years I really don't think I have any chance with Canada. don't get me wrong if I got in to a Candaian School I would be very very happy. I want to stay in canada, but I"m just trying to be realistic

 

[Alphonsine]

My parents are paying...

 

[JPR22]

The problem with getting loans as a canadian is that you dont have alot of options. You could get teri loans, but the interest is high, and if something goes wrong youll be financially ruined forever. Plus they only give you $25000/year. You could get your parents to co-sign a loan, if they have good credit, you could get one from royal bank, or canada trust. Again the problem is that if something goes wrong, your parents could lose their house/retirement savings. Most importantly theres no gauranteed way of paying back loans. Aus generally gives you the boot after internship, Canadas really hard to get a residency in, and the US is getting pretty competitive too, not to mention the visa issues. Sadly studying medicine coming from canada is difficult. YOu can either take a HUGE risk, and borrow money, or have your rich parents pay for it. Regardless, attending school anywhere but the US or Canada isnt the best idea for canadian citizens.

 

[willcandude]

The problem with getting loans as a canadian is that you dont have alot of options. You could get teri loans, but the interest is high, and if something goes wrong youll be financially ruined forever. Plus they only give you $25000/year. You could get your parents to co-sign a loan, if they have good credit, you could get one from royal bank, or canada trust. Again the problem is that if something goes wrong, your parents could lose their house/retirement savings. Most importantly theres no gauranteed way of paying back loans. Aus generally gives you the boot after internship, Canadas really hard to get a residency in, and the US is getting pretty competitive too, not to mention the visa issues. Sadly studying medicine coming from canada is difficult. YOu can either take a HUGE risk, and borrow money, or have your rich parents pay for it. Regardless, attending school anywhere but the US or Canada isnt the best idea for canadian citizens.

they kick you out after internship? really? i'm guessing if one obtains permanent residence right after internship, then it's a different story, right?

if you ONLY want to practice in canada, then maybe going overseas for med isn't the best idea, imho

compared to canada, us has alot more residency spots opened to international medical graduates. for spots like internal medicine,family medicine, i heard they are pretty easy to get a spot.

i believe you have to pass all 3 steps of usmle to get US visa. i heard these tests are very expensive, and the last 2 steps are really difficult to get a high score in.

 

[JPR22]

sorry if I oversimplified my response. Technically they dont kick you out after internship, but youre at the back of the line, and I beleive they have a 10 year rule before you can go into private practice, and make good $$ to pay off loans. I actually know someone who's parents are rich who plans to stay in aus as a junior medical officer for the next 10+ years...not a bad life. Perhaps one of the Aus students can explain things better.
As far as the US goes residencies are becoming much more competitive as US schools are significantly increasing their spots. As a canadian there's 2 visa options: The J1, to get this you need to pass the MCCEE, (which isnt so easy anymore), and after you finish residency you need to leave the US for at least 2 years (whether or not you have a job waiting for you in Canada).
Theres also the H1B, which allows you to be sponsored for a green card later. Unfortunately its hard to come by, and fewer and fewer programs will sponsor it.
As far as the USMLE goes, the step 1 is by far the hardest. Coming from Aus, steps 2 and 3 shouldnt be a problem.

 

[JCYL]

My flatmate last year (int'l student from Singapore with mediocore marks) just finished his internship in Melbourne city (in one of the teaching hospitals) and has started his training as a registrar in the same hospital. I don't know the details but I do know he's not the only one.

 

[MedSchoolinOZ]

Hi Shirochan88, I work for a company that helps Canadian students apply to med schools in Australia. You are right, the cost is around AUD35,000 - 45,000. Places are very competitive as universities typically only have about 10-12 places for international students. We work with 5 med schools in Australia and 1 in New Zealand. Happy to give you more info on how to apply if you wish.

 

[willcandude]

so lets say i (international student), after internship, obtains permanent residence. in the public hospitals, how much do, junior/senior residents and registrars get paid? does anyone have updated figures for public hospitals?

many thanks.

 

[johnnyb255]

so lets say i (international student), after internship, obtains permanent residence. in the public hospitals, how much do, junior/senior residents and registrars get paid? does anyone have updated figures for public hospitals?

many thanks.

Interns make around AU$50k base (not counting overtime... if your unit signs off on it... most should). Gradually goes up, I think senior regs makes around $100k a year.

To answer another question, your first year (PGY1) is Intern year. Your next 1-3 years are usually as a resident, before you get accepted into a training program- then you're a registrar for around 4-6 years depending on your program (check out the college of physicians (RACP) and college of surgeons (RACS) websites for more info- especially surgery which has just changed). The standard total training time is around 6-10 years depending on speciality. Only after you have completed a training program and passed your fellowship exams can you practice privately and bill patients under Medicare.

 

[johnnyb255]

Hi Shirochan88, I work for a company that helps Canadian students apply to med schools in Australia. You are right, the cost is around AUD35,000 - 45,000. Places are very competitive as universities typically only have about 10-12 places for international students. We work with 5 med schools in Australia and 1 in New Zealand. Happy to give you more info on how to apply if you wish.

Is that 10-12 international places for graduate schools?

 

[shirochan88]

thanks for all the responses.

so getting in internationally in Australian school is just as hard? eh I was hoping for less competition. Are there any Canadians or Us residents currently studying in AUstralia, any coments?

I woul dassume it will be better to study in australia than Carb schools
any comment on irsh, or maybe I should make another thread there

 

[treva]

thanks for all the responses.

so getting in internationally in Australian school is just as hard? eh I was hoping for less competition. Are there any Canadians or Us residents currently studying in AUstralia, any coments?

I woul dassume it will be better to study in australia than Carb schools
any comment on irsh, or maybe I should make another thread there

With a 3.4 and a 25 MCAT score it'd be tough (IMO) to get into Aus schools.

 

[shirochan88]

what would be the suggested gPA and MCAT scores

min GPA of 3.7 and MCAT of 28 and over? these scores seem similar to what Canadian schools are looking for

 

[Off2Oz]

Alright, I can't in good conscience look at some of these posts and not write back.

Firstly, I am a Canadian studying medicine at the University of Queensland, and I'm finishing up my 2nd year. As such, my response deals with UQ and the situation here alone.

We have 50+ foreign medical students in my year, and of those, 30 or so are Canadian (This is in my class - and classes get bigger every year around here)

Also, with respect to loans, I recommend you GO to RBC and ask them. I, along with all others in my class who are getting their loans through RBC did NOT need cosigners for our loans. Check it out. Also, they tell you that it's possible to extend your loan amount past $150k in the future, so you shouldn't have any major worries with respect to funding. Btw, interest is currently sitting at 6.25%, and you only pay interest on what you've pulled out of your loan.

Next, I'm not really sure what these companies that "help Canadian students apply" to med school are up to. The process is EXTREMELY easy in comparison to any other med school application (in North America), and the competition is MINIMAL compared to the competition between non-internationals (ie. Australians).

Finally, Australia does NOT kick you out. There is plenty of information on moratoriums, etc, but the situation here is that they need doctors BADLY and that you can stay if you like. Also, going home is pretty easy. I'm from Ontario and I can enter into the FIRST ROUND of CARMS at the end of all this. This works for many other provinces as well (I'm only up to date on Ontario though).

Meh. That's all I've got. Feel free to disagree, but please, before you do, check out your information and make certain you're not misleading people considering their options.

Cheers.

 

[Off2Oz]

With a 3.4 and a 25 MCAT score it'd be tough (IMO) to get into Aus schools.

That MCAT score does look low. However, I'd call UQ, Flinders, etc. and ask them whether they would realistically consider.

 

[Off2Oz]

thanks for all the responses.

so getting in internationally in Australian school is just as hard? eh I was hoping for less competition. Are there any Canadians or Us residents currently studying in AUstralia, any coments?

I woul dassume it will be better to study in australia than Carb schools
any comment on irsh, or maybe I should make another thread there

From my (retro) perspectice, as a Canadian hoping to work in the USA, Caribbean schools would have been a better option. This is solely because SGU, Ross have their 3rd/4th year clinical rotations in the states. As a Canadian returning to Canada though (if that's what you are), you shouldn't have many problems with an Aussie school. It just gets a little tougher when visas are involved and you're not a citizen of the country you're trying to "return" to.

 

[shirochan88]

thanks so much for your reply off2oz

I wanted to ask you personally how you feel about the education at UQ. I have read some other forums and some students haven't had the best comments.

I recall someone mentioned that the program is not really structured, lectures and labs seem a bit chaotic. What is your opinion. Did you do your undergrad in Canada if so which university and how do those compare.

I'm sure the education review is really just a personal thing depending on personal experience.

eitherway it would be nice to know what to expect. As well is it common to have people in your class with grad degress either masters or PhD?

Thanks so much

 

[Off2Oz]

thanks so much for your reply off2oz

I wanted to ask you personally how you feel about the education at UQ. I have read some other forums and some students haven't had the best comments.

I recall someone mentioned that the program is not really structured, lectures and labs seem a bit chaotic. What is your opinion. Did you do your undergrad in Canada if so which university and how do those compare.

I'm sure the education review is really just a personal thing depending on personal experience.

eitherway it would be nice to know what to expect. As well is it common to have people in your class with grad degress either masters or PhD?

Thanks so much

No problem at all. =)

Firstly, there aren't many people here with Ph.D.'s or M.Sc.'s - I don't think it makes much difference though..

About my pre-med education - I have an engineering degree as well as a bio-med science degree. As for the current state of things here at UQ, I've got to say that unfortunately, many of the negative comments are accurate. It's definitely very disorganised, and the classes/practicals (ie. labs) are often completely out of whack with what's going on in the course. I was at Guelph for both of my previous degrees, and both were much, much more organized than UQ med.

Still, on a positive note, there's a new head of school, and things are looking better as time goes on. Even this year, it appears that the 1st years were quite a bit better off than I was (I'm finishing 2nd year now). The administration is quite interested in continuing this improvement, so I'm optimistic about the future at UQ.

Next, keep in mind that the curriculum is great for the Aussie system and should prepare you fairly well for work here. However, it's *very* lacking if you want to write something like the USMLE step 1. This isn't a reflection of any weakness in the curriculum per se - it's just that we're in Australia and as such we don't train to be US docs. =P

Bottom line is this: You will be learning to be an Australian doctor here. If you want to succeed in going back to North America, you'll have to put in lots of time learning the stuff they want you to know. This may mean you don't get the highest marks here, but marks don't matter much in comparison with board exams..

My own opinion is that I would have had an easier time returning to NA if I went to Flinders/Caribbean. ie. If I were to do it again.. well..

However, I'm living in a nice, warm place and I'm quite happy putting in a little extra work to make sure I'm competitive. (note that no matter where you go, you'll need to put in many, many hours per day to really know your stuff. lol)

Hope that helps..

 

[lokibjorn]

...Off2Oz. It was pretty much what I was going to say if you hadn't. I'm staying in Australia for training, and they've made it really easy to do that nowadays. I'm currently finishing third year at Flinders and have a pretty good run so far (talk to me after my exams in two weeks). What you've said about the USMLE is very true though. I entertained the idea of taking it for a while and bought all the study aids, but when I realized how much extra micro, biochem, pharm and path (the detail of which is almost entirely useless in the wonderful world of medicine) I was going to have to learn to become competetive for the USMLE, I gave it up. This was also helped by knowing I never really wanted to return to the US anyway though, so if you have your heart set on it, you'll just have to be willing to put the extra work in. Hope that helps!

 

[Zuckman]

Writing that USMLE seems really scary...so much extra time and effort..do many of you guys do your residency in Oz and then try to return to North America rather than writing the USMLE?

 

[Off2Oz]

Writing that USMLE seems really scary...so much extra time and effort..do many of you guys do your residency in Oz and then try to return to North America rather than writing the USMLE?

Not sure how many of us stay here, but I can say that I don't think the USMLE Step 1 exam isn't really that bad.

It definitely forces you to give up a certain proportion of fun-time during 2nd year, but it's very do-able. Certainly, if you keep up with the workload and supplement with USMLE study materials, you'll be golden..

Where it gets a little hard is if you decide to do it and you've only got a small amount of time.. I think 2nd year is perfect for it, but in later years it may seem a little crazy in light of the fact that much of the knowledge really isn't used clinically..

And, of course, it's a lot harder to study for if your heart isn't set on working in the US. =) My advice to you is to stick with your goals. If you want to stay in Australia, then you'll have the opportunity. If you want to go to the US or Canada, then work hard toward that and you'll have an opportunity to do so.

 

[willcandude]

Not sure how many of us stay here, but I can say that I don't think the USMLE Step 1 exam isn't really that bad.

It definitely forces you to give up a certain proportion of fun-time during 2nd year, but it's very do-able. Certainly, if you keep up with the workload and supplement with USMLE study materials, you'll be golden..

Where it gets a little hard is if you decide to do it and you've only got a small amount of time.. I think 2nd year is perfect for it, but in later years it may seem a little crazy in light of the fact that much of the knowledge really isn't used clinically..

And, of course, it's a lot harder to study for if your heart isn't set on working in the US. =) My advice to you is to stick with your goals. If you want to stay in Australia, then you'll have the opportunity. If you want to go to the US or Canada, then work hard toward that and you'll have an opportunity to do so.

i'm more worried about the fact that there might not be enough internship spots in 4 years time.... they increased med school spots in aussie but didn't increase internship spots... has anyone contemplate their backup plan in case they can't get an internship spot?

where else can u do internship without having to write extra exam? singapore? does singapore has alot of internship spots open to foreign students (i.e. non-citizens) ?

 

[shirochan88]

wow this thread has really revealed some thing I never knew I want to thank you all for contributing.

it seems like if I want to go back to canada (first choice) or US then I'll have a lot of extra work to do.

and I guess if I want to stay in Australia it might be a bit difficult since the residence spots are short

 

[Alphonsine]

I don't think resident spots are gonna be short. They will increase the # of residency spots if necessary. However, finding a job is another thing - which is why it's a good idea to keep your options of returning to Canada or the USA - which means you should get all your board exams in order.

The problem of Australia is that basically it has 5 cities: Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth. The other cities are small. You'll probably be living in the country if you stay in Australia trying to get into some metro area. I don't want to be a country doctor if I can help it.

My family is in Canada. I would like to return to Canada or the USA if possible - it's complicated *sigh*. We'll see. My dream actually is to practice in one of the East Coast cities in the USA, Seattle, California, or Texas.

 

[Alphonsine]

Also, going home is pretty easy. I'm from Ontario and I can enter into the FIRST ROUND of CARMS at the end of all this. This works for many other provinces as well (I'm only up to date on Ontario though).

Cheers.

Yes, but what's the possibility of getting a match though?

 

[willcandude]

I don't think resident spots are gonna be short. They will increase the # of residency spots if necessary. However, finding a job is another thing - which is why it's a good idea to keep your options of returning to Canada or the USA - which means you should get all your board exams in order.

The problem of Australia is that basically it has 5 cities: Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth. The other cities are small. You'll probably be living in the country if you stay in Australia trying to get into some metro area. I don't want to be a country doctor if I can help it.

My family is in Canada. I would like to return to Canada or the USA if possible - it's complicated *sigh*. We'll see. My dream actually is to practice in one of the East Coast cities in the USA, Seattle, California, or Texas.

if you read up on the internship issue in Aussie, u'll realize there's a flood of med students graduating in upcoming years... and the gov hasn't done much to increase enough spots.... and internationals are low on the prioirty, meaning locals get internship spots then international..

 

[Off2Oz]

Yes, but what's the possibility of getting a match though?

Pretty good, actually. As a Canadian, you're in the first round, and IM and FP spots are plentiful. Therefore, the possibility is no less than that of a Canadian that is studying in Canada.

Note that it's not so for non-Canadian citizens.

 

[Off2Oz]

if you read up on the internship issue in Aussie, u'll realize there's a flood of med students graduating in upcoming years... and the gov hasn't done much to increase enough spots.... and internationals are low on the prioirty, meaning locals get internship spots then international..

willcandude has been doing some homework, I see..

This effect is already being felt by my colleagues in 4th year (or so they tell me). They get spots still now, but they're not in Brisbane or any other major city..

 

[Alphonsine]

Pretty good, actually. As a Canadian, you're in the first round, and IM and FP spots are plentiful. Therefore, the possibility is no less than that of a Canadian that is studying in Canada.

Note that it's not so for non-Canadian citizens.

Yes! I think I would LOVE Australia...but it's not home.

 

[Alphonsine]

what would be the suggested gPA and MCAT scores

min GPA of 3.7 and MCAT of 28 and over? these scores seem similar to what Canadian schools are looking for

Eh...if you check this forum often enough, you'll see that many students had pretty decent stats: GPA >3.4 and MCAT > 30. If you can't get close to this, you're probably going to have a hard time getting into Australia also.

 

[shirochan88]

just quick question, I know that in Queensland they look at the most recent degree, ie if u did 1 bachlors then a md, then a phd, they would look at your phd marks over all the others

is this the same for anyother Australian Med School.

Additionally, I keep hearing people talk about Flinders, especially those who want to go back to US or Canada, just wondering is their academics a little different. People seem to suggest to go to that school if u want to go back.

 

[willcandude]

just quick question, I know that in Queensland they look at the most recent degree, ie if u did 1 bachlors then a md, then a phd, they would look at your phd marks over all the others

haha funny hypothetical scenario.. a bachelor, then MD, then PhD, then back to UQ for a MBBS?

 

[Off2Oz]

Yes! I think I would LOVE Australia...but it's not home.

Sounds good to me.. But my original message was regarding returning to Canada, btw, and not staying in Australia.

 

[shirochan88]

haha funny hypothetical scenario.. a bachelor, then MD, then PhD, then back to UQ for a MBBS?

woops I meant MSC then PHD meaning is it true they only take your last degree's transcripts?