Can't decide: top 20 private school versus top 50 state school

[hqt331]

So I realize this has been debated before, but I have some unique circumstances.

With scholarships, my state school comes out to ~10k in tuition (versus ~40k for the top 20). I definitely feel more comfortable at my state school, fit-wise. I would even have close friends attending school with me. Also, I am a pretty laid back guy, and I felt a little out of place among all the high-powered research types who would be my classmates at the top 20.

At the same time, I can't help but feel that I am settling. Any advice? FWIW, I envision myself going into at least a slightly competitive specialty. Even those I am considering that aren't so competitive (neuro/psych) I think I might want to go to one of the more academic/prestigious residencies.

My problem is that I don't know yet what kind of career I want to have. I definitely could see myself doing academics, but I'm also not a hardcore research person (or at least, not yet). I also haven't ruled out private practice. I'd appreciate any advice, because I'm feeling pretty torn.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[drizzt3117]

Sounds like you like your state school more and you should go there. The finances definitely support that decision too.

 

[surftheiop]

So I realize this has been debated before, but I have some unique circumstances.

With scholarships, my state school comes out to ~10k in tuition (versus ~40k for the top 20). I definitely feel more comfortable at my state school, fit-wise. I would even have close friends attending school with me. Also, I am a pretty laid back guy, and I felt a little out of place among all the high-powered research types who would be my classmates at the top 20.

At the same time, I can't help but feel that I am settling. Any advice? FWIW, I envision myself going into at least a slightly competitive specialty. Even those I am considering that aren't so competitive (neuro/psych) I think I might want to go to one of the more academic/prestigious residencies.

My problem is that I don't know yet what kind of career I want to have. I definitely could see myself doing academics, but I'm also not a hardcore research person (or at least, not yet). I also haven't ruled out private practice. I'd appreciate any advice, because I'm feeling pretty torn.

I'm in a rather similar position, I have chosen my state school and I'm really excited about it. Like you I felt more comfortable at my state school (despite going to an Ivy for undergrad) and I think that comfort level is going to be really important in medschool in order to keep sane. Also saving money is always nice!

Additionally, because less people at the state school will be interested in academic careers, if you show interest in that attendings will give you more attention (this has happened to me already and I'm not even in med school yet).

 

[NickNaylor]

Sounds like you like your state school more and you should go there. The finances definitely support that decision too.

Agreed with this. Reading between the lines, it seems like your main hesitation is turning down a top 20 school for a lower ranked school.

 

[cowme]

Other than the top 3-5 schools, there really is no reason to put any emphasis in rankings. Any top 50 school will open as many doors for you as any most 20 schools. Going to a higher ranked school only matters for stroking your own ego and bragging to your pre-med friends. Four years is a long time to spend in an environment that you don't sound like you would be comfortable in.

 

[MCAT guy]

Other than the top 3-5 schools, there really is no reason to put any emphasis in rankings. Any top 50 school will open as many doors for you as any most 20 schools. Going to a higher ranked school only matters for stroking your own ego and bragging to your pre-med friends. Four years is a long time to spend in an environment that you don't sound like you would be comfortable in.

Or it could be a school you like better.

Right?

 

[Residual]

Top 20 isn't worth 2x the cost, imo, much less 4x. Going to an expensive, high-powered med school will probably open doors that your state school wouldn't, but the debt will close a lot of others. 200k+ in debt isn't going to be fun on a neurologist or psychiatrist's salary. OTOH, if you keep your debt minimal you can do what you want without worrying about pay as much.

 

[hqt331]

Thanks for the responses everyone. Yes, you're right, I am definitely leaning toward the state school.

Agreed with this. Reading between the lines, it seems like your main hesitation is turning down a top 20 school for a lower ranked school.

Partially, yes. But also, I can't deny that the research opportunities are better structured and more impressive at the top 20.

 

[surftheiop]

Thanks for the responses everyone. Yes, you're right, I am definitely leaning toward the state school.



Partially, yes. But also, I can't deny that the research opportunities are better structured and more impressive at the top 20.

That was one of my main hesitations, but I figure with a little extra effort good research opportunities could be found almost anywhere

 

[bobow98]

Other than the top 3-5 schools, there really is no reason to put any emphasis in rankings. Any top 50 school will open as many doors for you as any most 20 schools. Going to a higher ranked school only matters for stroking your own ego and bragging to your pre-med friends. Four years is a long time to spend in an environment that you don't sound like you would be comfortable in.

I don't know why there are so many naysayers when it comes to going to a more prestigious school and paying a little more money. In the grand scheme of things, 100k isn't really THAT MUCH money. Most will make that back in a couple of years working post residency quite easily I think.

There is probably a reason that some schools have a high ranking (some schools being key) - they have faculty and other resources that can give you the leg up you need to land that residency spot that you really crave. It's not just stroking your ego and bragging to friends (though that can be a part of it, why not if you've earned it and are not being an Ahole).

I just wish people here would stop making money the #1 factor in making a decision that could potentially have significant impact on your career.

 

[gatorman23]

I don't know why there are so many naysayers when it comes to going to a more prestigious school and paying a little more money. In the grand scheme of things, 100k isn't really THAT MUCH money. Most will make that back in a couple of years working post residency quite easily I think.

There is probably a reason that some schools have a high ranking (some schools being key) - they have faculty and other resources that can give you the leg up you need to land that residency spot that you really crave. It's not just stroking your ego and bragging to friends (though that can be a part of it, why not if you've earned it and are not being an Ahole).

I just wish people here would stop making money the #1 factor in making a decision that could potentially have significant impact on your career.

Edited

I am in a similar boat as the OP actually, and have just gotten frustrated with the whole prestige aspect of medicine... as if giving up a top 5 school is the end of the world.

 

[bucks2010]

Considering you aren't a resident/attending, this means nothing. If an attending came on here and said "my life sucks because I chose state school X over Ivy/Top 10/Top 20 Y" it might be enlightening.

Considering that we have no residents or attendings in this thread, his opinion means just as much as everyone else's. Please try to contribute something positive to threads instead of needlessly attacking other posters.

 

[drizzt3117]

While I generally agree with you, this person seems to like the state school more.

I don't know why there are so many naysayers when it comes to going to a more prestigious school and paying a little more money. In the grand scheme of things, 100k isn't really THAT MUCH money. Most will make that back in a couple of years working post residency quite easily I think.

There is probably a reason that some schools have a high ranking (some schools being key) - they have faculty and other resources that can give you the leg up you need to land that residency spot that you really crave. It's not just stroking your ego and bragging to friends (though that can be a part of it, why not if you've earned it and are not being an Ahole).

I just wish people here would stop making money the #1 factor in making a decision that could potentially have significant impact on your career.

 

[Hah]

I don't know why there are so many naysayers when it comes to going to a more prestigious school and paying a little more money. In the grand scheme of things, 100k isn't really THAT MUCH money. Most will make that back in a couple of years working post residency quite easily I think.

There is probably a reason that some schools have a high ranking (some schools being key) - they have faculty and other resources that can give you the leg up you need to land that residency spot that you really crave. It's not just stroking your ego and bragging to friends (though that can be a part of it, why not if you've earned it and are not being an Ahole).

I just wish people here would stop making money the #1 factor in making a decision that could potentially have significant impact on your career.

I think it is :/

Money should be a factor in your decision making process, whether its the #1 factor is up to the individual. The decision between a state vs ivy school may potentially have a significant impact on your career but you can be damn well sure that a 120k extra debt + the accrued interest (in the OP's case) will definitely have some impact on your life.


120k+interest = a house in some markets or a really expensive car that you can use to stroke your ego with instead.

Though all of this really is moot since the OP clearly prefers the state school over the ivy school even disregarding cost.

Cost vs Prestige is really an individual preference thing.

 

[metallica81788]

Sounds like you like the state school more. That + money = state school

The drop-off in rankings isn't even that significant if you're concerned about that.

 

[NickNaylor]

I don't know why there are so many naysayers when it comes to going to a more prestigious school and paying a little more money. In the grand scheme of things, 100k isn't really THAT MUCH money. Most will make that back in a couple of years working post residency quite easily I think.

There is probably a reason that some schools have a high ranking (some schools being key) - they have faculty and other resources that can give you the leg up you need to land that residency spot that you really crave. It's not just stroking your ego and bragging to friends (though that can be a part of it, why not if you've earned it and are not being an Ahole).

I just wish people here would stop making money the #1 factor in making a decision that could potentially have significant impact on your career.

$100k is a pretty substantial amount of money, especially if that difference in cost is paid for using loans. The cost of a loan is substantial with an amount like $100k even if the loan is paid back relatively quickly.

It's not a difference in cost that should simply be ignored.

 

[MCAT guy]

$100k is a pretty substantial amount of money, especially if that difference in cost is paid for using loans. The cost of a loan is substantial with an amount like $100k even if the loan is paid back relatively quickly.

It's not a difference in cost that should simply be ignored.

What about 50k?

Decisions, decisions for me!

 

[Disinence2]

Go to the cheapest school! You'll get the same education pretty much anywhere!!!

Unless... you would be happier at the more expensive school. Then go for it!

Don't worry about which is "better" worry about what one you can see yourself surviving at for 4 years.

 

[gravitywave]

you should probably look at expected cost of attendance instead of simply tuition. there's going to be a big difference between living in New York or Chicago, versus oh i dunno Gainesville. so the real number could be bigger. or it could be smaller.

but you sound like the only reason you are considering the big school is the name/rank. your state school is cheaper, and you sound as though you'd like it more. take the money and run.

 

[hqt331]

you should probably look at expected cost of attendance instead of simply tuition. there's going to be a big difference between living in New York or Chicago, versus oh i dunno Gainesville. so the real number could be bigger. or it could be smaller.

but you sound like the only reason you are considering the big school is the name/rank. your state school is cheaper, and you sound as though you'd like it more. take the money and run.

This is a good point. The state school is actually in a more expensive location. But estimated COA for the state school is still 28k less expensive, with the scholarships, than the OOS school. Which brings up another point. How accurate are these estimated costs? Does it depend on the school?

Also, some schools I have seen reduce the COA, and consequently the amount you can borrow, for MS2 year or MS3 or whatever because that year lasts only 9 months or 10 months or whatever. How am I supposed to pay rent for those months I am not in school?

 

[surftheiop]

This is a good point. The state school is actually in a more expensive location. But estimated COA for the state school is still 28k less expensive, with the scholarships, than the OOS school. Which brings up another point. How accurate are these estimated costs? Does it depend on the school?

Also, some schools I have seen reduce the COA, and consequently the amount you can borrow, for MS2 year or MS3 or whatever because that year lasts only 9 months or 10 months or whatever. How am I supposed to pay rent for those months I am not in school?

I think a lot of school inflate the "9 month" cost to make it actually work for 12.

For example, Emory's COA had something absurd like 25k for housing a year, I guess they assume you will just take however much you need.

 

[NickNaylor]

What about 50k?

Decisions, decisions for me!

Google "loan calculator" and calculate it yourself. Don't forget to capitalize the interest if you're not going to pay it off while you're in school.

I plan on posting on SDN an Excel worksheet that calculates the cost of various loans to come up with the total cost for attending particular schools that I've been using. Once I get some free time I'll make it usable for everyone and post it up. It's been very helpful for me.

 

[drizzt3117]

I think a lot of school inflate the "9 month" cost to make it actually work for 12.

For example, Emory's COA had something absurd like 25k for housing a year, I guess they assume you will just take however much you need.

A lot of people also do paid research between m1/2

 

[cowme]

I don't know why there are so many naysayers when it comes to going to a more prestigious school and paying a little more money. In the grand scheme of things, 100k isn't really THAT MUCH money. Most will make that back in a couple of years working post residency quite easily I think.

There is probably a reason that some schools have a high ranking (some schools being key) - they have faculty and other resources that can give you the leg up you need to land that residency spot that you really crave. It's not just stroking your ego and bragging to friends (though that can be a part of it, why not if you've earned it and are not being an Ahole).

I just wish people here would stop making money the #1 factor in making a decision that could potentially have significant impact on your career.

My opinion was only partially based on financial reasons. My issue was that the OP made it sounds like he didn't feel as comfortable in the "top 20" program.

Look, my main point is this:
You guys need a little bit of perspective. A lot of you really tend to overvalue the importance of rankings and prestige when it comes to what residency you will get. Now I'm not saying that HMS won't open more doors for you than Loyola, but if you think a place like Mt. Sinai (#18) will open THAT many more doors for you than a place like Temple (#45), you are dead wrong.

I just matched in a pretty competitive field. When I was on interviews at the so called "research powerhouses"-- MGH, UCSF, Hopkins, etc...I looked around at where the students were coming from. Sure, there were students from HMS and WashU, but there were just as many applicants from places like Loma Linda, NYMC and Wayne State.

But back to the OP's main point, my issue was that he/she sounded significantly more comfortable in their home school environment. To go to a higher school for rankings alone sounds like a mistake to me.

 

[hqt331]

Bit of an update: I recently received a scholarship from the top 20 that evens things out financially. I'm leaning towards going there. Don't get me wrong; it's not only the rank I'm looking at. The actual school was fantastic. Great faculty, very supportive. Excellent research programs. Its just that based on Second Look, I felt a little bit out of place. I just don't know if I can turn this school down based on a short Second Look event. I'm coming in to med school straight out of undergrad, and I'm single, and I have no major commitments/responsibilities anywhere. I mean, going into the app cycle I wouldve been ecstatic about this scholarship.

At the same time, when I read threads like this one:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=811793

and this one:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=813578


it gets me pretty worried about the fit of the school, and makes me want to go with the more comfortable option. I don't wanna be miserable during med school. Any advice?

 

[NickNaylor]

No matter where you go, medical training is going to suck to some extent. One school might alleviate the suck partially, but the suck will still be there.

I'm pretty convinced that having the right mindset/personality is more important than the school you choose.

 

[hqt331]

No matter where you go, medical training is going to suck to some extent. One school might alleviate the suck partially, but the suck will still be there.

I'm pretty convinced that having the right mindset/personality is more important than the school you choose.

I guess I heard from so many med students during interviews that "surprise: med school can actually be fun" that I actually started to believe it